Guild Wars, WoW, and Guild Wars 2

yes, but those all play roughly as "roll face on keyboard"

After a post like this? I'm not feeling it.

I don't link my armories for the same reason I don't have my GW name here: much nastiness.

You'll have to provide a pretty good reason why a Death Knight "needs" to respec each day.

WoW's most creditable PvP format is 5v5, GW's is 8v8. That right there gives GW more of a head in terms of variety, but to continue:

So DK's apparently have six main paths they can go down for PvE, whereas a War in GW can persue five (and they're only based off of the PvX wiki).

For PvP, a DK has three main builds they can persue, while for GW I'm seeing a lot more even just based off of observer (and there's no such thing as "standard war PvP build").

I thought this was an interesting article about MMO betas. Something to think about when wondering when a game should release a beta, at what stage of development it makes sense to do so, and what do developers get out of it these days?

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/66885

This article was also really interesting; what happens when you beta too soon?

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/51945

Yikes, that's a brutal article.

This guy needs to work on his PR skills:

Scott: "I’d like to ask people to hang in there. Don’t judge us until you’ve seen our next few products. I feel like we’ve learned so much and employed so many processes. I’m so proud of the way we build games now – our groups and our focus testing – and I think we finally get it. "

I appreciate being honest, I really do. But this sounds essentially like begging: "please, please, try our game." And that's never a good way to sell something.

One thing both these articles do is confirm that Anet is doing the right thing: No press, no screens, nothing until beta is ready (or close to it).

And you know the Beta of GW2 will probably be a practically finished game. Anet knows that Betas are what sells a game, and that as soon as that Beta opens, NDA or not, there will be flames, there will be Youtube clips and leaked screens. Once you open Pandora's Box, there's no going back.

Dunno about the very last part, but the beta should only be after all intended features are implemented and they *think* they've gotten rid of all the bugs and *think* they've gotten the balance right. That is when you should let outsiders in to start stress-testing at a level you just can't do in-house.

Aka you have no idea wtf you are talking about. if you make a claim, be ready to back it up, otherwise don't post at all


Easily: i pug as a tank, as well as do ulduar in guild as a DPS. My 2v2 spec is unholy 19/52 while my 3v3 spec changes between 17/54 AMZ or frost depending on what we feel like doing. This a good enough reason for ya?

lol, final proof that you have been talking out of your ass ever since the start. Im done with you, go back to RA please.

An unfinished beta means that at least you are working on something. However as of right now we have absolutely 0 screenshots/gameplay videos of GW2. Which makes me believe that they haven't even sorted out the game engine and other source code yet.

It took wow a good 2-3 years to be finished AFTER releasing tons of gameplay videos screenshots as well as other game info.

Good luck seeing GW2 before 2014

You bumped a buried thread just to yell at me o_O?

You shouldn't feel the need to ask for my armory in the first place (even if I did I doubt you'd believe me). If there was valid reason as to why Ulduar *wasn't* easy, citing a few annoying dances or complaining about Saron (xD), then that should've been easy to provide. Instead I just get a "nuh-uhhh".

Yeup. I keep getting tunnel-vision from being so pigeonheld for so long in arms. At least it's now more focused...but Fury's in the shitter again.

If there's such thing as a "standard war build", then there's such thing as a "standard DK/Mage/Hunter/Pally/Sham/Druid/Rogue/Lock/(WoW)War build".

Granted, some classes in WoW *can* play quite differently...as can some in GW: Frost/Unholy DK vs. Daggersin/Castsin vs. WoH/RC Monk. On the flipside, some are rather restricted in WoW...as in GW: Locks vs. Paras vs. Rits.

Seems to me it has been said that GW2 is already in a playable form. I have no reason to disbelieve what ANET has stated, so I think your prediction is a little bit off. I get a little tired of people who have to see something to believe it exist.

Normally, I wouldn't bite, but would you care to bet on that?

I bet GW2 will come out before 2014.

The MMORPG market has changed a lot since 2002.

2014 you say.. so lets see this is how much years of development before release..lets count lets say we got infor released about GW2 at march 27 th 2007 right so according to you its gonna take 7 years to release correct...

Now How long did it take Blizzard to reveal ANY info about Star Craft 2....info was released on may 18 2007

when was Star Craft 1 released in? 1998

Now lets count... 2007-1998=9 years ? i hope my math is correct


So an RTS game takes 9 years to complete... ive seen them being spewd out ina matter of 2-3 years.... and you expect an MMORPG to be release in a matter of 2-3 yeasr....

Once again your "Blizzard let me blow you .......away with my fanboism" is showing...previously you sated you are a realist..seems to me you are a fanatic.

I've been looking forward to Guild Wars 2 since they announced it. And with all the new stuff I keep discovering, the wait gets worse. I'm disappointed that the beta wasn't last year as planned, as the game was said to be released this year before. I realize they have to do a good job on it but still...If it takes them until 2014 or even past 2010, I'll be uber pissed, which I'm sure most of the community will be. Every day Guild Wars gets a little more boring, even with the daily Zaishen updates. The bounties are usually impossible in hard mode so you don't get as many coins, the PVP isn't even fun because there's always one team that kills the others no matter what happens (I'm always on the losing team), and the missions...who wants to go through those again, really?

Again, I know that ANet has to do a good job with this game, but it would be nice to at least get some screenshots or information. People saying 2010 and 2014 are speculating because no official information has been provided. Some shred of hope would be nice.

Which brings me to another point - several people have stated that the new content (makeovers and name change) fees go to financing Guild Wars 2. I hope that's true because at least the money is going to a good cause, though $15 is too much to change a character name if you ask me.

Anyway, yes I'm definitely looking forward to Guild Wars 2. It would be cool to combine Guild Wars' epic graphics and stories/free gameplay with the open environment, jumping, swimming, mounts, etc. of WOW. But I don't want Guild Wars 2 to be another grind fest (stares at GWEN and its rep points and WoW and its rep points). That will disappoint a lot of people if the whole game will be on reputation. I don't want to have to grind to get "exalted" with a certain race to get a mount or something from them. And I don't want to have to get to rank 5 something to get the armor. No grind! Oh, and keep the Guild Wars fighting system - don't make it like WoW where you have to turn and face the enemy to fight. Guild Wars turns right toward the enemy; the biggest issue is an obstructed view but at least you attack by yourself instead of having to turn while getting beat. Not good for the multitasker, which is probably 95% of the community.

Regardless, I'm going to get this game and I'll probably be waiting at the door the day it comes out. I already have video ideas and a storyline ready for my main character. I want it now! hehe

I tried that. WoW's just to cartoon-y for my taste.

Besides, I am not even a little bit tired of Guild Wars yet

LOL - What? 99% Nobody in my gaming circle is eagerly awaiting release of those, much less talk about them. A realistic guesstimate might be in order. There are other games releasing before GW2 that I hear much more chatter about, one in particular that I'll be playing to fill time that many people have told me they're going to try/play as well. Regardless, of people that have played GW for a long time and thousands of hours, I would guess that the percentage of these people that don't at least pick up GW2 is pretty high, no matter what game they're playing at the time. There's zero chance that I won't be getting it. Having tried or played extensively several games over the past year I've come to the realization of just how good ANet is at what they do. Some of the things that slightly bothered me in the past and a lot of the complaints I still read are soooo minor compared to what I've witnessed.

I still play Diablo 2.. I'm surprised the servers are still up after 10 years... but 30-40k people still play.

I disagree with what you have said.

First, with the April update. A vast amount of GW players HATED the appearances of their characters three years after creating them. After all, we were three years younger, our tastes change. And the name chaging - what if you named your character something exceptionally ridiculous, but ended up getting them to level 20, FoW armor, completing the game? You might not want to be known as "I LYEK APPLEZ" or the like.

The Zaishen Challenges provided something for us players to actually do in the meantime of waiting for updates. We can't sit here and complain about how they screwed that up, because they tried to make us happy. (Shoot, it made me happy)!

As for skill updates, who the heck cares? You played Guild Wars fine with the skills it had before these "horrendous" updates came. If you don't like the unbalanced skills, don't use them. If other people are using them in pvp, just shut up and deal with it. No use crying, there's hundreds of skills in this game. Whoopdie freakin' doo, a few of them changed. Get over it.

Last, the banning situations with names. If you're really too upset about being banned for a character name, you should think, "hmm, I shouldn't have named my character inappropriately. I won't do that again." If a word or phrase somehow becomes "bad" and GW decides any name that includes it will be forced to change, make lemonade out of lemons and create a better name. However in all respect, you can't whine about getting banned when your character's name has the badmouth language of an immature twelve year old. And naming a character "A Boob?" Real mature. I hope you feel clever for overstepping the boundaries of ArenaNet's knowledge.

So to summarize what I'm saying: You've been playing Guild Wars for a while, you know what you like and what you don't like. So be quiet about what you don't like and enjoy what you do.

Regina has stated that more information will be made available at the end of this year.


Name change, or one month of WoW? (I'd go with name change personally)


Jumping, swimming, open environment. I don't recall mounts being involved. And besides, I think the open environment will be same as in GW1 with portals separating a zone, just its not instanced and everyone is there with you (in that dis)

As soon as I get a confirmed date, Pre-order away! Then I pay my friend's sister to save me the cardboard store cutout of whoever the new gwgirl is showcasing GW2

^
/agreed
/winthread

Could you possibly make a worse post?

No, no you could not.

Guild Wars fanboyism is ungood, mmkay.

Right, and the last person to have Regina's job (Gaile) said we would have a beta by the end of last year...

Still waiting for it.

Point is, Anet's f'd us over on info before, so they're being tightlipped and any info they give us (or lack thereof) should be taken with a grain of salt, or better yet ignored.

Why? Why is loving a game a bad thing?

Just because someone is enjoying a game, be it WoW or Guild Wars (or Basketball or Football for that matter), doesn't make them an idiot.

These are hobbies. Last time I checked, you were allowed to enjoy hobbies, and share your interests with others on fan websites!

Not sure how being a fan of Guild Wars on a Guild Wars site became a bad thing!

Being a "fan" is totally fine until you start to overlook the problems because you love it so much. He put "GW" specific fans in there to attempt to stir some flames.

But what makes anyone the benchmark for what are considered problems in the game? Maybe some people don't have any problems. I know I don't think most of the often mentioned problems on this site are problematic to me.

Mordakai, you took the words right out of my mouth.

I could care less about what bad things this game has to offer - I just care about what's good in it (which is most of it)! Apparently my earlier post was oh-so terrible, so excuse me for expressing the fact that people should stop playing a game if they always complain about it. But whatever, I like Guild Wars for what it is, and that's good enough for me.

That's what forums are for.

He was more pointing out that you said "who the heck cares" regarding skill updates, and that ignoring unbalanced skills/builds is not the path to a healthy game and community.

Right, and it never ceases to amaze me how everyone on these forums is always completely unanimous about what does and what doesn't amount to a problem.

No, really. The opinions of a couple of hundreds of random players do not make a benchmark.

We're not talking about opinions, we're talking about arguments.

It's one thing to say "I like Ursan". It's another to say "I like Ursan because...".

Maybe you are talking arguments, I'm not. I'm asking for a benchmark to measure problems by.

Another person's arguments are irrelevant to my gaming experience. You can argue something to be a problem all you want, but if I have no problem in that area, you can't call on me saying I'm ignoring problems. For instance, I've never ever ever considered a lack of skill updates to be a problem.

Calling people 'fanboys' because they ignore your problems, that's hubris.

There isn't one.

There's a difference between saying "I don't care about the problem" and "this isn't a problem". I was more referring to the latter view.

The latter view is completely valid. No one has any kind of obligation to acknowledge what you perceive as a problem to actually be a problem if they don't see it as a problem themselves.

And at which point the other posters would ask why the player in question did not see it as a problem, and then that player would either provide a good opposing view why it isn't a problem, acknowledge that it *is* a problem, or state that it doesn't affect them i.e. "idc".

That scenario assumes that what the one player perceives as a problem is actually a problem with the game and not just something going against someone's personal desires for the game. Which a great many 'problems' discussed on these forums actually are, and people are called 'fanboys' for disagreeing.

I don't really see what we're arguing about now, honestly.

I could comment on how to define the line between a problem with the game or a problem with someone's desires, but I don't really see how that would benefit the thread, nor how it relates to someone refusing to acknowledge problems (while not providing good reason to believe so).

I cant agree more. The kind of 'freedom' WoW offers makes it impossible to balance the game. Just take a look at the classes.
WoW: 10 or so.
GW: 90 or so due to prim/sec mixes.

You'd think that with a few million dollars a month on subscription it wouldnt be hard to hire enough people to do numbercrunching and balance things out with 9x less possibilities to keep in mind.

Yet, at the end of the day, the 5-10 or so people on GW-live team manage to do a better job then the entire WoW team while having to take much more aspects into account.


I really, really hope GW2 remains true to GW1 and steers as far away as possible from WoW. At least as far as gear is concerned anyway, because thats WoW's pandora's box from which they still havent been able to recover... ever...
On both TBC and WotLK they even announced to redesign the entire gear part so they wouldnt have issues again, because its the core issue on both pvp and pve balance... both times they failed... anybody see the irony in that?

Yeah... let's ignore everything else and scream your lung out about how WoW has less class combinations than GW so it is easier to balance WoW.

Who cares about race-specific differences, itemizations, number of concurrent usable skills, etc etc, right?

I have no problem with legitimate discussions on the merits / demerits of a certain game.

My problem is with people who just say "Guild Wars sucks" and offer no reasonable explanation....

Too me, those people are worse than "Fanboys", because at least Fanboys have a reason to like something, even with its flaws.

Guild Wars "haters", who also like seeding flamewars, are here just for attention.

To the direct point, Zinger314 could have made the argument that fixing skill imbalances is important, but instead just said "Fanboyism is ungood."

Basically, Zinger not only attacked the poster, but anyone who considers themselves a GW fan. Thus a page of thread derailment.

If I had made any more specific argument, you'd be stating I'm flaming instead.

There's nothing wrong with being a Guild Wars fan. There is, however, a problem with with being such a fan that one sees everything else with rose-tinted goggles. (something which I've said multiple times throughout this thread)

Hard to prove, since you didn't.

Anyway, I'll attempt to get this thread back on track by stating that ArenaNet developers have gone on record saying there are too many skills in Guild Wars, and that releasing new professions and new skills in every new chapter bloated the system and made things too complex.

Which is just ONE of the reasons they decided to reboot with GW2.

Hopefully, ArenaNet will learn from previous mistakes and GW2 will have less, but much more useful skills. My ultimate dream is to have to make hard choices about EVERY skill I put on my bar (assuming there still is a limited skill bar in GW2).

http://www.mmognation.com/2007/08/13...d-jeff-strain/

I will buy Guild Wars 2 as soon as it hits the shelf. I have played Guild Wars since the beginning and have been very pleased with everything Anet has done. I look forward to even more high quality and attention to detail that GW1 has.

I do hope that GW2 is more dynamic and changes frequently than GW1 has. Don't get me wrong, GW1 has changed dramatically since its release, I just want GW2 to change more frequently so that things don't get too stagnant. The addition of the Zaishen Bounties and Nicholas the Traveler are a storke of genus in my book. It changes all the time so that you have something different to do everytime you login, even if it is just redoing some missions. Hell, I couldn't even remember the last time I had done the Frost Gate mission so it was kinda fun going back and re-visiting it with other players in a PUG. In my book it made going with a PUG refreshing again. yeah I could do it with H/H but that would just be the same ol same old.

/on a side note I am extremely interested in Biowars Star Wars Old Republic MMO

Okay... after that whole side discussion... this just needed to be posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

Enjoy this break.