Alright, this is what we've come up with for a 1 man build for now, it hasn't been tested yet.
N/Rt Minion bomber/Resto
14-16 Death Magic
9 Soul Reaping
10 Restoration Magic
Animate Bone Minions
Death Nova
Putrid Bile
Xinrae's Weapon [Elite]
Spirit Light
Life
Protective was Kaolai
Death Pact Signet
Rt/N Channeling/Curses
14 Channeling Magic
11 Spawning Power
8 Curses
Boon of Creation
Spirit to Flesh
Signet of Spirits
Bloodsong
Painful Bond
Splinter Weapon
Barbs
Rip Enchantment
Rt/X Resto/Communing
12 Restoration Magic
11 Communing
12 Spawning Power
Boon of Creation
Reclaim Essence
Armor of Unfeeling
Union
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Weapon of Warding
Flesh of my Flesh
Now, seeing as sabway is arguably the most popular/effective 1 man/3 hero build, I'm going to compare this to it, basing it off the builds.
Sabway
Sabway -
Offense:
- Spiteful Spirit (AoE)
- Minion bombing/Barbs (single target/AoE)
- Putrid bile (AoE)
- Splinter Weapon (AoE)
Defense:
- Aegis (AoE block)
- Protective Spirit (single target prot)
- Mend Body and Soul (single target heal/prot)
- Spirit Light (single target heal)
- Weapon of Warding (single target regen/block)
- Life (AoE heal)
- Protective was Kaolai (AoE heal)
-Xinrae's Weapon/Weapon of Remedy (single target prot/heal)
- Foul Feast (Condition transfer)
Utility:
- Enfeebling Blood (AoE weakness)
- Rip Enchantment (Enchantment removal)
________________________________________
Spiritway -
Offense:
- Signet of Souls/Bloodsong (Single target damage spirits)
- Painful Bond (Single target damage)
- Minon bombing/Barbs (single target/AoE)
- Putrid Bile (AoE)
- Splinter Weapon (AoE)
Defense:
- Union (AoE prot)
- Life (AoE heal)
- Mend Body and Soul (single target heal/condition removal)
- x2 Spirit Light (single target heal)
- Weapon of Warding (single target regen/block)
- Spirit to Flesh (AoE heal)
- Xinrae's Weapon (single target prot/heal)
- Protective was Kaolai (AoE heal)
Utility:
Rip Enchantment (enchantment removal)
So, spiritway vs. sabway:
Pros:
- Spirits outdamage Spiteful Spirit
- More powerful Splinter Weapon
- Spirit that reduces 525 damage to party
- More healing (single target and party)
- Better condition removal
Cons:
- Less effective energy management
- Less effective minion bombing
- No protective spirit/aegis
- Relies on spirits, which means AoE is dangerous. You have to be more careful with aggroing and pulling.
I'm tired, so I'm probably missing something.
So, on paper, this looks better than sabway. Going to bed soon, so if anyone wants to test it out, feel free.
Introducing ArkFenway - New 1/2 Man PvE Destruction
Arkantos
Abedeus
I noticed a huge cons in both builds.
Banishing Strike
I ran my Necromancer through Battledepths to Varajan Falls and I almost got wiped thanks to Banishing Strike spam.
edit: no icons for skills ;[
Banishing Strike
I ran my Necromancer through Battledepths to Varajan Falls and I almost got wiped thanks to Banishing Strike spam.
edit: no icons for skills ;[
Arkantos
Well, not every build works everywhere. In areas where there are dervishes with banishing strike, either set up defensive spirits far away (but not too far) and flag rits with offensive spirits to the side while you take aggro, or use another build.
zwei2stein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
I'm tired, so I'm probably missing something.
I miss enfeebling blood on curser, ideally instead of RiP enchant.
fenix
No particular need for Enfeebling Blood in the build, so of course if you need it you could bring it on your primary (5 curses makes it 10 second Weakness). Rip is a better utility because it's a very good enchantment removal, something that really has to be in there based on some of the zones we've used the build in.
ranger spiker
test run on master of damage. 2 ranger spikers and 1 sin ( sin doing less dmg lol ) you did 10,594 damage over 32 seconds, for an average of 331 damage per second.
your best damage in a single second was 856, done at 27 seconds. death occurred after 3 seconds. <----( poor start ) i get a 2 second kill on this guy on average.
the ranger spiker took out the Harbringer of Nightfall (HM) in Nundu Bay in 9 seconds flat. no agro from the margonites when he reached half health. he died too quickly. the harbringer of nightfall only takes half damage from all sources. wiki says bring at least 2 human players as the vial of purified water only lasts 10 seconds. lol i needed only 9 to kill him. Masters in Hard mode on this mission.
your best damage in a single second was 856, done at 27 seconds. death occurred after 3 seconds. <----( poor start ) i get a 2 second kill on this guy on average.
the ranger spiker took out the Harbringer of Nightfall (HM) in Nundu Bay in 9 seconds flat. no agro from the margonites when he reached half health. he died too quickly. the harbringer of nightfall only takes half damage from all sources. wiki says bring at least 2 human players as the vial of purified water only lasts 10 seconds. lol i needed only 9 to kill him. Masters in Hard mode on this mission.
Crassus Praetor
Here are the template codes for the 1 man version at the time of writing:
Necromancer:
OAhjUsGaoSVBoBKgWbTOjTDTVVA
Ritualist Channeling/Curses
OASkcghj4Sujz0ydNLnVTMWZY3B
Ritualist Restoration/Communing
OACjAuhKpOOTlL08xJNncZsLGA
hope the att are right, quite hard to tell with without rune spread
Necromancer:
OAhjUsGaoSVBoBKgWbTOjTDTVVA
Ritualist Channeling/Curses
OASkcghj4Sujz0ydNLnVTMWZY3B
Ritualist Restoration/Communing
OACjAuhKpOOTlL08xJNncZsLGA
hope the att are right, quite hard to tell with without rune spread
Seri
Out of curiosity, would this build work in DoA as a 2 man? Or what would you need to modify to get it to work?
Trader of Secrets
No problem with actually trying it out
Life Bringing
I don't think your second rit in the one man is going to have a target for reclaim at the end of the battle. Is reclaim even worth it with one spirit?
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seri
Quote:
I don't think your second rit in the one man is going to have a target for reclaim at the end of the battle. Is reclaim even worth it with one spirit?
You're right, I didn't think of that.  Reclaim is used not only to recharge the spirits, but as energy management. The one man build is a rough copy and I have to work on it still, so if you have any suggestions, feel free to tell.
Abedeus
I tried Assassin's Promise, but non-offensive (I.E. heroes that don't always cast offensive spirits) heroes have troubles picking targets for AP, so I had to constantly micro-manage it. It was more hassle than it was worth it, as it also meant spreading attributes...
Reclaim is much better. Too bad it doesn't recharge itself, but at least you won't cripple yourself otherwise.
Arkantos
Yeah, AP is very unreliable on heroes. Having to constantly micro it is a hassle.
Vann Borakul
I tried out a 3hero version. I skipped curses for now. Might change.
Ritualist/X 13 Channeling (11+1+1) 11 Restoration (10+1) 11 Spawning (10+1) - Signet of Spirits {E} - Bloodsong - Mend Body and Soul - Spirit Transfer - Painful Bond - Spirit Siphon - Boon of Creation - Flesh of My Flesh This one is a slight gamble. The energy management is supposed to help fuel Spirit Transfer, which heals a hefty 190 health in 1/4th a second, but for 10 energy. Spirit Transfer might be replaced by Spirit Light if it's too much energy, and then Spirit Siphon might be replaced. Ritualist/X 14 Communing (12+1+1) 13 Spawning (12+1) - Reclaim Essence {E} - Pain - Anguish - Disenchantment - Displacement - Union - Boon of Creation - Armor of Unfeeling Straight communing spirit rit. Necromancer/Ritualist 14 Death (12+1+1) 10 Restoration 9 Soul Reaping (8+1) - Animate Bone Minions - Death Nova - Putrid Bile - Xinrae's Weapon {E} - Spirit Light - Protective Was Kaolai - Life - Death Pact Signet Typical N/Rt minion bombing healer. Don't know how well it is, I did a test and it seemed okay. Still can't tell if the energy management for Spirit Transfer is okay, or if a different idea is worth it.
Arkantos
With signet of spirits, boon of creation and spirit siphon, the energy management should be fine. Spirit siphon at 13 channeling is 14e (9e with energy cost), and signet of spirits with boon of creation up is 15e.
Given the fact that StF is nearby only I'd dump it. Along with all Spawning.Quote: That way you can go Channeling/Curses, with Siphon Spirit as your e-management. Plus it opens up a slot for Enfeebling. Yeah, StF isn't really that good. As for dropping spawning, I'm not sure how energy management would be. Heroes don't tend to use spirit siphon that well, as in they'll use it beside the same spirit they just used it on. Worth a try, though. Anyways, this is what I've come up with so far: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team-_1_Man_Spiritway I tested it a little. Haven't tried out the new channeling/curses rit, but the ritual lord seems to manage its energy decently. It uses spirit siphon poorly, so it's not going to have consistent energy. And as usual, the necro's energy management is fine. speedy21589
I've been using a modified Channeling Rit:
15 Channeling 12 Smiting Signet of Spirits Spirit Siphon Bloodsong Agony Splinter Weapon Painful Bond Strength of Honor DPS/FomF I hated spec'ing so much into Spawning Power just for Boon of Creation (and I guess more spirit health, but bleh). I'm pretty sure Spirit Siphon will be just as good for e-management, and this way I get to bring SoH for myself. (Obviously, this would be silly when both humans are casters/ranged)
mage767
Please post some screens of your 1-man 3-heros achievements in HM in some difficult areas. It looks good on paper, but without screeens, I'm still skeptical of any build.
Finally, the worst counter which will destory ANY rit based team is "Spiritual Pain". I was vanquishing Varajer Fells with my 3-hero build and the mesmer boss (from Path to to Revelations) destroyed my team in 3 second. Had to remove all spirits to take him out. Also, please stop censoring my posts. You are stiffling discussion I am trying to add!
Arkantos
As I said, the builds are still in testing, so I don't have screenshots. If you'd like, you can tell me some areas where 1 man discordway/sabway can complete, and I'll try the areas with my build. And yes, the build (like every build) does have counters.
And as I told you, I deleted the posts that did not contribute to the discussion. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about it. radbout
The idea is great, a hero spiritbuild would ftw. I do however think that the spiritrole should play less of then a huge part for as far as a one-man team goes.
I kinda doubt union is a good idea since it also gets triggered on minions, that means it will often die real fast (even with the effect from armor of unfeeling) and probably prove to be quite useless. I dont think a communing ritualist is really such a good idea... Here's what I mean: (OACjAqhK5OOTlL08xJNncZsLG) You waste a lot of points in spawning and communing for e-management and protection that doesnt last very long and is mostly wasted on minions. I think armor of unfeeling doesnt apply on newly spawned spirits and if that is the case it is used by heroes poorly. Even if it does work properly the protection of the spirits comes at the great cost of a still rather ineffective hero. I think for a 1-man a channeling RT build is fine along with a minionhero. the spirits deal good suppressive damage and the minions keep the baddies away from the team and the spirits. Death pact on a mm? Thats just asking a horde of hostile minions killing your party (and your spirits) I would change that. Basicly I'd put the minion/prot role back on the mm and make a curses/resto nec and a channeling/resto/interrupt rit/me (cause interrupt is good for the e-management aswell). aka something like this: (OANDUslfSyBVBKgoB4B1DvEVVA) (OAWkMghqITKT18aWOxYTuhZG4iB) (OAhjYgHb4O5B7wubcO5kmV1LGA) Though what I made now has its obvious downsides I still think its a good alternitive for the communing hero for quite some reasons: - this build has prot spirit which you can rely on, I really missed that. - This build has interrupts that will prove to be usefull in alot of cases, also if theres need the amount of interrupts can be increased. - This build has stronger minions, you also can put discord on (replacing aotl) for extra damage if you feel like it yet I prefer having stonger minions myself. - this build has enfeebling blood (I also really missed that). - if spirits and minions die, you still have other ways of dealing some damage. Downsides: - spirits have less "armor" and health so they die faster. - the build generally still is poorly equipped with prot, this build has no blockskills so it relies heavily on EB. - prolly more.
Arkantos
Even though they trigger on minions, you're really underestimating the power of union/shelter/displacement. They protection they offer is far too good to give up. By the time the 3 spirits go down, your party will have taken virtually no damage, while the enemy mob is already dropping. These spirits are amazing.
As for DPS on the MM, yeah, it's not the best idea. PS is nice, but not needed when you have a party wide PS along with a party wide aegis and shielding hands. They're up enough for your team to be able to take down enough foes that they won't be doing much damage.Just tested the 1 man build in gate of madness HM. My party took virtually no damage from groups of margonites and tormented. By the time union/shelter/displacement were down, the enemy mobs didn't have enough to take a single member down below 70% health. I even aggro'd a group of margonites and tormented and the build managed to keep everyone above 50% health. I did, however, aggro 2 groups, then another one mid battle, which ended up in a party wipe. Going to try it again later.
Neo Nugget
That's insane, I am definitely looking forward to trying that.
Smilin' Assassin .. actually wasn't intending to Vanq .. just wanted to see how well Razah works, and we were having so much fun, our little team cleared the area~! ok, a few points, this is definitely not an optimum build, as you can see ~ *no cons were used but the Luxon shrine bonus taken (well, it's free jadeite ..) *Xandra's and Whispers are unchanged from what they were pre-buff, this expedition was mostly to test Razah's build .. normally I need to micro Xandra's enchants prebattle (they can be upkept), but I didn't worry about any microing this time cos I was focusing on Razah and seeing if he did his stuff on cue (which he did) *distinct lack of enchant stripping, which was not an issue in this zone *and no hex removal, which was .. every Binding Chain instantly focused on Alacrity, who was also the only source of interruption .. I usually put Gwen in Razah's slot, and she handles hex/ench/interrupt/RoJ *no shortage of minions, we stomped every little crab on the way *the mobs in that zone are small and easily managed *wiped three times, first at the Afflicted, second against some nonBoss kd-nuker turtles, and third vs three mobs each with an Outcast Rt *all three wipes could have been avoided by a less impatient puller *expected trouble vs the Oni at the bridge, but both groups got tangled up in the minions and were cleaned up in two SplinterBarrages, with some DeathNova + ARage thrown in *the most annoying fights were any with more than one enemy Rt, as we had no hex removal. The Rt boss was also a pain, but interrupt spam got im:} *the big turtle nuker boss got into a fight with OutCast, as a result his group was diminished. If we faced a full boss group I'm sure we would have wiped, but with careful pulling + interrupt spam we made it *best pull strategy is to flag out of aggro, pull, then when some spirits are down flag a few steps behind the spirits. How far away to put the initial flag depends on patrol patterns - can be one step out of aggro if no nearby monsties, but very painful if another mob wanders by. *yea I do prefer a dagger or scythe build to vanq .. but even then, Ala rarely needs to swap away from her pulling bow:} So anyway, this is just to share, and maybe peeps will put up better screenies. the new Rt's can pwn in HM at a halfteam and silly setup .. I'm sure we'd do far better with the combos you've posted ~
Arkantos
....Wow. I must say, that's impressive. Now I'm very curious as to how well the 3 heroes Fenix and I put together would work.
Life Bringing
I'm attempting to try it atm. Sad thing is that rit runes from the trader are practically non-existent.
fenix
We discovered that too, we had to sit next to the Rune Trader for around 15 minutes just to get the right Minor runes...
After seeing that screenshot (very impressive Smilin' Assassin) I'm pretty keen to give our 1 man bars a go with 4. Should work quite well I imagine.
Life Bringing
I'm tired of standing next to the rune trader, so im going to go without the second minor spawning. Any area in particular you want me to test?
The whole MM/healer hybrid doesn't work. The necro will cast death nova before attempting to heal something.
Life Bringing
I just did Boreas Seabed HM. Took me 19 minutes because i nearly wiped. Daze interrupting Jade Fury saved me and made it a cakewalk, after i realized what i had to do. It's pretty effective, but hard to say if it's better than sabway.
Arkantos
Well, I think neither of the builds are outright 'better' than the other. The one man build is still under testing, and will improve. Both builds are great in their own right. I highly doubt I would have been able to do abaddon's gate in 10 minutes with sabway, and I'm sure I'll come across something that I won't be able to do with my build that I will be able to do with sabway.
Life Bringing
Probably true. Anyways, i just did Ruins of Morah and it was laughably easy. I just gathered up all the agro on my side of the map and blew everything up, then moved forward and proceeded to blow Varesh up. Took 6 minutes, and i probably wasted 2 trying to pull Commander Varesh up the hill without a longbow...
I also wanted to say that if you need any help updating something on PvX, i'd be happy to do it. I've been active there for a while and know how to get stuff done. I'm Life Guardian over at PvX.
Arkantos
Was thinking of trying it out there, glad to know it works great. And thanks for the offer.
Arkantos
If you can manage to do some DoA (even if it's NM) with no knowledge, I'm sure with some tweaks this build should be able to do fairly well in HM with users with knowledge/experience of DoA.
Life Bringing
You would need to fit in massive hex removal for a full clear. I also doubt that this could take down the giant group of margos at the end of city, the hungers in veil, or the Fury. Might have a slim chance in NM, but no chance in HM.
EDIT: It's probably possible with a 3 man/5 hero build in NM. I know there's a build somewhere on pvx that takes 5 necros and 3 players and can do it pretty easily.
Abedeus
This build rules in Asuran areas. I used to hate them, but now that spirits take most of damage and don't need corpses, those bosses hitting for 400 dmg and deep wound are effortless.
Also, someone should try Shards of Orr, it's pretty easy if you swap one of the necros to a Smiting N/Mo with Ray of Judgment.
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Life Bringing
EDIT: It's probably possible with a 3 man/5 hero build in NM. I know there's a build somewhere on pvx that takes 5 necros and 3 players and can do it pretty easily. |
Well, with tweaks for each zone and human ritualists, I'm sure it's possible. Fenix and I just created rits and we're going to try some elite missions. Going to take a few days, though.
|
This build rules in Asuran areas. I used to hate them, but now that spirits take most of damage and don't need corpses, those bosses hitting for 400 dmg and deep wound are effortless.
Glad to know it's effective there. I hate those zones.
Life Bringing
I also just did ToPK lvl 1 in HM. I didn't have time to continue, but the whole thing should be pretty easy. Needs some quick flagging to get out of meteor shower. I've also noticed that heroes are really weird with spirit siphon. Occasionally when microing it, the hero will run across the compass to an earlier laid spirit, even if there is one right next to them.
Arkantos
Yeah, heroes suck at using it if you micro it. I've had times where I micro'd it and they refused to use it, even though there were 5 spirits beside them. They also aren't the greatest at using it by themselves either, as they'll use it twice in a row while beside the same spirit.
Bill Clinton
So Ark, what are you considering to swap around and tweak on the builds? I think the MM/Healer Hybrid is the biggest problem atm.
I was just attempting to vanquish the Grothmaw wardowns with this. Its awesome against all the wildlife, but three times now the charr have ended up wiping my team to the point where i've had too much DP to go on. Even with the battle standard of courage, EVAS and full minions i'm finding the charr a very very formidible opponenet. |