Introducing ArkFenway - New 1/2 Man PvE Destruction

Assuming Spawning Power 10:
Shelter @ 14 Communing: Level 11 Spirit with 378 Health and 69 Armor.
Shelter @ 16 Communing: Level 13 Spirit with 434 Health and 81 Armor.

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I'd still say not running superiors is pretty brain-dead, if you ask me. Ding! Case closed.


On a different topic, I've come to see that Shelter(/Union/Displacement) plus minions isn't the terrible, awful, very bad, no good anti-combo that it first appears.

How bad it is depends on what role you want Shelter to serve. If you're using Shelter to guard against the wtfpwn, then having Shelter fry itself protecting minions and leaving the party unprotected until it comes back up is obviously bad. On the other hand, if you're using Shelter for efficient bulk damage mitigation, having minions is a slight positive, if anything. Every additional hit the monsters need to spend to bring down a minion that Shelter saved is an additional hit that's not being made against a party member. In that sense, preventing a hit against a party member by mitigating a hit against a minion or directly mitigating a hit against a party member is a wash. The slight positive comes in where party members who aren't being hit at all are going to perform better because they don't have to kite, etc. and can concentrate on killing stuff.

Ding! Case closed.


On a different topic, I've come to see that Shelter(/Union/Displacement) plus minions isn't the terrible, awful, very bad, no good anti-combo that it first appears.

How bad it is depends on what role you want Shelter to serve. If you're using Shelter to guard against the wtfpwn, then having Shelter fry itself protecting minions and leaving the party unprotected until it comes back up is obviously bad. On the other hand, if you're using Shelter for efficient bulk damage mitigation, having minions is a slight positive, if anything. Every additional hit the monsters need to spend to bring down a minion that Shelter saved is an additional hit that's not being made against a party member. In that sense, preventing a hit against a party member by mitigating a hit against a minion or directly mitigating a hit against a party member is a wash. The slight positive comes in where party members who aren't being hit at all are going to perform better because they don't have to kite, etc. and can concentrate on killing stuff. Which is absolutely EXACTLY why we have Shelter/Union/Displacement in the build. I'm glad you get it

Ding! Case closed.


On a different topic, I've come to see that Shelter(/Union/Displacement) plus minions isn't the terrible, awful, very bad, no good anti-combo that it first appears.

How bad it is depends on what role you want Shelter to serve. If you're using Shelter to guard against the wtfpwn, then having Shelter fry itself protecting minions and leaving the party unprotected until it comes back up is obviously bad. On the other hand, if you're using Shelter for efficient bulk damage mitigation, having minions is a slight positive, if anything. Every additional hit the monsters need to spend to bring down a minion that Shelter saved is an additional hit that's not being made against a party member. In that sense, preventing a hit against a party member by mitigating a hit against a minion or directly mitigating a hit against a party member is a wash. The slight positive comes in where party members who aren't being hit at all are going to perform better because they don't have to kite, etc. and can concentrate on killing stuff. Everyone questioning these spirits with a MM should definitely read this post. Just wish I would have explained this earlier.

The 3 spirits are doing exactly what they're supposed to do: protect the party. They do this directly and indirectly. When enemies are attacking party members, they spirits are directly protecting the party. When enemies are attacking minions, they're indirectly protecting the party. While the party members may not be affected by them, the minions serve as tanks. The enemies waste their time attacking protected minions while the party kills them. Not only this, the minions are still doing damage, and when they finally die, they're bombs. Now, in general I think tanks are bad, but when you have 10 mini tanks with a bomb on them, they're quite amazing.

Also, amazing times everyone. Please make sure to say whether you're using the 1 man build or the 2 man build, though.

If I haven't unlocked Razah yet, any thoughts on taking an oath shot ranger as the communing rit? Or would a necro be more effective? I'd say use Xandra as a communing rit, and a necro as a damage dealer/healer hybrid. The communing rit definitely has to be, well, a rit primary.

Yeah, I tried running a necro with all those protection rituals but I totally forgot that the whole point is for spawning to boost their hit points... Not only that, but runes too. There's a significant difference between 0 SP/12 communing union/shelter/displacement and 11 SP/16 communing unnion/shelter/displacement.

You are forgetting the armor increase of the spirits due to having higher level.

Assuming Spawning Power 10:
Shelter @ 14 Communing: Level 11 Spirit with 378 Health and 69 Armor.
Shelter @ 16 Communing: Level 13 Spirit with 434 Health and 81 Armor.

Spirits are notoriously hard to protect. Save Yourselves has no effect on them. Neither does any sort of ward. The armor increase is very significant. This also, perhaps especially so, goes for attack spirits.

I'd still say not running superiors is pretty brain-dead, if you ask me. I though about armor during my previous post and here is what i figured out:

12 armor extra is awesome. But pointless. If your spirits are soaking damage directly on regular basis, something is wrong.

It means that you have ran out of minions, did not flag spammers apart, did not put skills like enfeebling blood to use or all that everything together.

And if your spirits are under fire, your sup wearing heroes standing conveniently next to them will be next and rather soon start getting hits they can not afford.

I'd still say they are pretty much average ... run them if you want, it does increase power of build (doh), but it misses something, there is no truly interesting break point at 15/16 for either att line that is a must-have.

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BTW: /dancenew for assassins/ritualists summons spirits that trigger off extra healing from Feast of Souls and probably more. Abuse!

BTW: /dancenew for assassins/ritualists summons spirits that trigger off extra healing from Feast of Souls and probably more. Abuse! What's this?

I though about armor during my previous post and here is what i figured out:

12 armor extra is awesome. But pointless. If your spirits are soaking damage directly on regular basis, something is wrong.

It means that you have ran out of minions, did not flag spammers apart, did not put skills like enfeebling blood to use or all that everything together.

And if your spirits are under fire, your sup wearing heroes standing conveniently next to them will be next and rather soon start getting hits they can not afford.

I'd still say they are pretty much average ... run them if you want, it does increase power of build (doh), but it misses something, there is no truly interesting break point at 15/16 for either att line that is a must-have.

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BTW: /dancenew for assassins/ritualists summons spirits that trigger off extra healing from Feast of Souls and probably more. Abuse! Extra armor for spirits isn't the selling point for running a superior rune.

Shelter:

12 spawning power, 14 communing

414 health, 47 damage per hit
That comes up to ~9 hits (~18 hits with AoU)

12 spawning power, 16 channeling

474 health, 43 damage per hit
That comes up to ~11 hits (~22 hits with AoU)

Union:

12 spawning power, 14 communing

326 health, 15 damage per hit
That comes up to ~22 hits (~44 with AoU)

12 spawning power, 16 communing

385 health, 15 damage per hit
That comes up to ~26 hits (~52 with AoU)

Displacement:

12 spawning power, 14 communing

385 health, 60 damage per hit
That comes up to ~6 hits (12 with AoU)

12 spawning power, 16 communing

444 health, 60 damage per hit
That comes up to ~7 hits (14 with AoU)

So, assuming AoU is used, sacrificing 75 health gets your party:

4 more 1 hit protective spirits, 8 more 1 hit shielding hands, and 2 more 1 hit critical defenses. Don't forget that ritual lord will recharge rituals 8% faster, and boon of creation will heal 6 more health (not that useful, but throwing it in there).

The difference may not be huge, but it's more than enough to make a difference. So, is it worth it? Well, it comes down to personal preference.

So, is it worth it? Well, it comes down to personal preference. This is the heart of every hero setup. So many variations work well, that you can play with them and decide what suits your profession and playstyle best. Everyone has some slight tweaks to be made to whatever cookie cutter build they're using. For some, it's sacrifiing hero hp for more powerful skills, and for others it's completely changing around a concept to what works best with whatever build they choose to run. This is one of the reasons that making a build that everyone likes is impossible.