Introducing ArkFenway - New 1/2 Man PvE Destruction
fenix
At the moment we're considering swapping the Curses to the Nec, and the Resto to the Rit (which had the curses). Apart from that, a couple skill changes and we should be able to get it up and running shortly.
Arkantos
fenix
Bah, not slow, just being more neutral in case we decide to change it again :P
radbout
I believe you on your word that these spirits are awesome if armor of unfeeling is used right. I just dont think you should let that single communing build rely only on one spirit.
In the 1-manbuild the communing rit only has union, thats only one spirit. union alone offers poor protection I think. Even though -15dmg its nice where is it gonna get you when you take atleast 100 damage from monsters? Perhaps Displacement and shelter should maybe be added on the communing-rit instead of wep of warding and either spirit light or rezz. good protection really is that important. The downside of adding all 3 is e-management, shelters costs 25 and displacement 15 and union also 15. Thats 55 energy minus 15(?) from boon = 40. You cant do much after that other then using reclaim and lose one spirit (idk what the hero does). I would therefore say two protective spirits is most reasonable?
I tested a costumized version of spiritway (made it before you posted yours but it was almost the same). I did THK HM and noticed that sometimes the spirits where used properly and sometimes the communing hero really messed up. Maybe this was because of the many kd's in that mission, it damages the spirits or the mursats spectral agony that often killed the uninfused spirits :P. This really became a problem when later in the mission, while guarding the king, the minions got whiped thus allowing the mursat and jades to put heavy pressure on the party and also the spirits.
This is where I really noticed the penalty from the cons. Basicly without minions and spirits all that the heroes can do is try to heal up to the heavy pressure. They have no way of dealing damage (save for putrid) and the rits completely lose their e-management, damage output and protection. Sure they can try to pop up spirits again but they are easily wiped in like 3 seconds if your lucky.
Because I had to guard the king I also couldnt flag my party away. Now I do realise that if I tried harder THK might have been easy, but I'm a lazy player that wanted to properly test this build which includes seeing your options after some failing. compared to sabway you still have a SS to help deal some damage when minions wipe. Now I totally had to rely on crappy hench to help me kill the baddies cause the spirits got vanquished in 2-3 secs. Needles to say I got wiped. I did the same with sabway once, had no problems then, even went afk and still no wipe, thats how easy THK is, well using sabway at least.
I should also point out that another con is that the spirits AI can be very stupid. They sometimes love trying to hit a foe thats behind a wall or something thus reducing your parties damage output greatly. it can be very annoying. still despite this I'd say its still worth taking the offensive spirits.
This is why once again I point out that you really shouldn't rely on spirits so heavily in a lot of area's. A communing rit can be good but they are not very reliable and least of all failprove. What good is prot if it isnt there when you really need it? For 1-man lazy players that fail a lot I recommend sabway over this
.
as for 2-man I think spiritway is a great alternative for discort/sabway.
In the 1-manbuild the communing rit only has union, thats only one spirit. union alone offers poor protection I think. Even though -15dmg its nice where is it gonna get you when you take atleast 100 damage from monsters? Perhaps Displacement and shelter should maybe be added on the communing-rit instead of wep of warding and either spirit light or rezz. good protection really is that important. The downside of adding all 3 is e-management, shelters costs 25 and displacement 15 and union also 15. Thats 55 energy minus 15(?) from boon = 40. You cant do much after that other then using reclaim and lose one spirit (idk what the hero does). I would therefore say two protective spirits is most reasonable?
I tested a costumized version of spiritway (made it before you posted yours but it was almost the same). I did THK HM and noticed that sometimes the spirits where used properly and sometimes the communing hero really messed up. Maybe this was because of the many kd's in that mission, it damages the spirits or the mursats spectral agony that often killed the uninfused spirits :P. This really became a problem when later in the mission, while guarding the king, the minions got whiped thus allowing the mursat and jades to put heavy pressure on the party and also the spirits.
This is where I really noticed the penalty from the cons. Basicly without minions and spirits all that the heroes can do is try to heal up to the heavy pressure. They have no way of dealing damage (save for putrid) and the rits completely lose their e-management, damage output and protection. Sure they can try to pop up spirits again but they are easily wiped in like 3 seconds if your lucky.
Because I had to guard the king I also couldnt flag my party away. Now I do realise that if I tried harder THK might have been easy, but I'm a lazy player that wanted to properly test this build which includes seeing your options after some failing. compared to sabway you still have a SS to help deal some damage when minions wipe. Now I totally had to rely on crappy hench to help me kill the baddies cause the spirits got vanquished in 2-3 secs. Needles to say I got wiped. I did the same with sabway once, had no problems then, even went afk and still no wipe, thats how easy THK is, well using sabway at least.
I should also point out that another con is that the spirits AI can be very stupid. They sometimes love trying to hit a foe thats behind a wall or something thus reducing your parties damage output greatly. it can be very annoying. still despite this I'd say its still worth taking the offensive spirits.
This is why once again I point out that you really shouldn't rely on spirits so heavily in a lot of area's. A communing rit can be good but they are not very reliable and least of all failprove. What good is prot if it isnt there when you really need it? For 1-man lazy players that fail a lot I recommend sabway over this
.as for 2-man I think spiritway is a great alternative for discort/sabway.
Arkantos
radbout, the build has changed since I made that post.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_1_Man_Spiritway
No, this build is not going to work in every single area of the game. No build is. It's better than sabway in some areas, and worse than sabway in some areas. Spirits, even on heroes, are a quite reliable source of defense. Sure, you might have to actually flag a hero or two and micro a skill, but the end result is great. I'm willing to say that when used properly, this h/h build has the best defense out of every 1 man h/h build. It also has great offense capabilities. Don't base the effectiveness of this build off one mission. But, if you must, then go do Abaddon's Gate HM in 10 minutes and Ruins of Morah HM in 6 minutes with sabway. I'm going to go assume that you won't be able to beat those times with sabway. That doesn't mean that spiritway is better than sabway, just like sabway isn't better than spiritway just because it has problems in THK.
Go ahead and recommend sabway over this, it doesn't really bother me. This is a build that works great that a friend and I came up with, and we're sharing it with the community. You don't have to go around telling people to run sabway over this, because the people who have run this know how powerful it is.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_1_Man_Spiritway
No, this build is not going to work in every single area of the game. No build is. It's better than sabway in some areas, and worse than sabway in some areas. Spirits, even on heroes, are a quite reliable source of defense. Sure, you might have to actually flag a hero or two and micro a skill, but the end result is great. I'm willing to say that when used properly, this h/h build has the best defense out of every 1 man h/h build. It also has great offense capabilities. Don't base the effectiveness of this build off one mission. But, if you must, then go do Abaddon's Gate HM in 10 minutes and Ruins of Morah HM in 6 minutes with sabway. I'm going to go assume that you won't be able to beat those times with sabway. That doesn't mean that spiritway is better than sabway, just like sabway isn't better than spiritway just because it has problems in THK.
Go ahead and recommend sabway over this, it doesn't really bother me. This is a build that works great that a friend and I came up with, and we're sharing it with the community. You don't have to go around telling people to run sabway over this, because the people who have run this know how powerful it is.
AerisAMP
Any ideas on a build for a human Ritualist primary to go alongside the one-man build?
radbout
You could simply go Splinter barage, or use a rt/p spawning build (using spirits strength + vital weapon + para attacks for supressive + some pveskills to improve damage, like asuran scan BUH or IATS) I recommend you take vampirism it goes well with the build.
AerisAMP
radbout
Tbh for a rit I would consider going sabway while running a spiritspammerbuild on yourself. I did that a lot (before the buff so its even better now) and basicly streamrolled through almost any HM mission I can currently think of. For 2-man I imagine running a full discordbuild + you spiritspammer would create an amazing spike. A build with 7 spirits constantly doing 120 dps constantly along with the discord spikes and you will pretty much find any mission is like NM or easier. Much like going 2-man spiritway, possibly even better. Some1 should try that :P.
I tested the new 1-man spiritbuild and I still have some doubts about the protective effectiveness of the communing hero. Sorry, but I still see it fail too much in heavy aggro situations. It works perfectly when you face few foes however, possibly better then any other prot. So yeah, it depends on the area. You cant take it just as blindly like sabway (u only gotta know if there are corpses for that.). You have to know what you are doing when you take spiritway, a build recommended be used in certain area's where there is little aoe and small amounts of (very strong) monsters. its much like it says: u cant die unless you aggro a million monsters.
Dont go do this in missions like vizunnah :P.
Also:
Gotta set something right, I realise I mixed abbadons gate up for some other torment realm mission, abbadons gate in 10 minutes isnt really that fast, I bet it could be done faster with hybrid ROJ-heroes or even discord but sabway totally sucks there, agreed, cause minions can hardly be made and ss doesnt work on the big boss. I wonder if a well aimed snipershot wouldn't insta kill him :P. anyways comparing to what ROJ can do 10 minutes is actually loooonnngggg but yeah probably its still much faster then sabway. And I did ruins of morah easily in less then 4 minutes. why? I can run it lol. So yeah those are just examples and they mean little, just as little as failing in THK.
I tested the new 1-man spiritbuild and I still have some doubts about the protective effectiveness of the communing hero. Sorry, but I still see it fail too much in heavy aggro situations. It works perfectly when you face few foes however, possibly better then any other prot. So yeah, it depends on the area. You cant take it just as blindly like sabway (u only gotta know if there are corpses for that.). You have to know what you are doing when you take spiritway, a build recommended be used in certain area's where there is little aoe and small amounts of (very strong) monsters. its much like it says: u cant die unless you aggro a million monsters.
Dont go do this in missions like vizunnah :P.
Also:
Gotta set something right, I realise I mixed abbadons gate up for some other torment realm mission, abbadons gate in 10 minutes isnt really that fast, I bet it could be done faster with hybrid ROJ-heroes or even discord but sabway totally sucks there, agreed, cause minions can hardly be made and ss doesnt work on the big boss. I wonder if a well aimed snipershot wouldn't insta kill him :P. anyways comparing to what ROJ can do 10 minutes is actually loooonnngggg but yeah probably its still much faster then sabway. And I did ruins of morah easily in less then 4 minutes. why? I can run it lol. So yeah those are just examples and they mean little, just as little as failing in THK.
Arkantos
radbout,
Sorry about the assumptions, I was tired and not in the best mood, I apologize.
As for the reliability on the communing rit, unless you're stuck in a very small area surrounded by enemies, it is reliable. Remember that the communing ritualist does not have any skills that targets other party members - which means he doesn't have to be around party members. You can flag the hero well behind your backline and still have the spirits affecting you.
No hex/condition removal skills is a problem. In hex heavy areas, you can always pack divert hexes on your necro (you'll lose some damage, but oh well) and some sort of hex removal on you. I really want to find a place for mend body and soul on this, because it can easily remove condition stacks. I just don't know what to drop for it.
Yes, you are helping, and your feedback is much appreciated. As I said I was tired and not in a good mood, so again, I apologize.
So yeah, when facing aoe heavy mobs, flag the communing hero far back enough so it won't get hit, and everything should be fine.
And we were never not cool.
Sorry about the assumptions, I was tired and not in the best mood, I apologize.
As for the reliability on the communing rit, unless you're stuck in a very small area surrounded by enemies, it is reliable. Remember that the communing ritualist does not have any skills that targets other party members - which means he doesn't have to be around party members. You can flag the hero well behind your backline and still have the spirits affecting you.
No hex/condition removal skills is a problem. In hex heavy areas, you can always pack divert hexes on your necro (you'll lose some damage, but oh well) and some sort of hex removal on you. I really want to find a place for mend body and soul on this, because it can easily remove condition stacks. I just don't know what to drop for it.
Yes, you are helping, and your feedback is much appreciated. As I said I was tired and not in a good mood, so again, I apologize.
So yeah, when facing aoe heavy mobs, flag the communing hero far back enough so it won't get hit, and everything should be fine.
And we were never not cool.
Mordiego
putrib bile being the only hex for discord heroes?
fenix
Putrid Bile and Painful Bond, but Painful Bond is the main one, it gets cast right as you aggro so that it covers most foes.
Vann Borakul
I think I might look into a version for caster mains so the 3 heroes aren't as tightly packed. Specifically eles, but I'll see where I go.
Oath shot R/Rts could work too, if they use the spirits such as Union with AoU.
Oath shot R/Rts could work too, if they use the spirits such as Union with AoU.
radbout
Conditions like the poison from death nova and weakness from enfeebling blood trigger discord aswell.
I also got a question about shelter and the effects of unfeeling armor. Shelter triggers life-loss on itself while unfeeling armor triggers damage reduction. Does this mean the effects of unfeeling do not apply on shelter since damage =/= health loss? Wiki says it does apply so that would mean shelters description (life-loss) is incorrect or the information on wiki is incorrect. Maybe the effects of unfeeling should be tested on shelter?
The problem is I kindof have a hard time with placing condition and hexremoval aswell. The communing hero has is hands full with spirits and his e-managent, cant be bothered to change any of this since it will make the build fail.
The channeling/resto hero could drop bloodsong (if your melee. I'm sorry I know this means less spiritpwn but I dont see any other way) and put mend there. Then leave it optional to replace rezz or splinter for hexremoval. (Or you could drop splinter for mend thus keeping bloodsong, since I mostly play casterclasses thats what I will do) The cost is great. But I think more heal and condition removal is really worth that cost.
I also got a question about shelter and the effects of unfeeling armor. Shelter triggers life-loss on itself while unfeeling armor triggers damage reduction. Does this mean the effects of unfeeling do not apply on shelter since damage =/= health loss? Wiki says it does apply so that would mean shelters description (life-loss) is incorrect or the information on wiki is incorrect. Maybe the effects of unfeeling should be tested on shelter?
The problem is I kindof have a hard time with placing condition and hexremoval aswell. The communing hero has is hands full with spirits and his e-managent, cant be bothered to change any of this since it will make the build fail.
The channeling/resto hero could drop bloodsong (if your melee. I'm sorry I know this means less spiritpwn but I dont see any other way) and put mend there. Then leave it optional to replace rezz or splinter for hexremoval. (Or you could drop splinter for mend thus keeping bloodsong, since I mostly play casterclasses thats what I will do) The cost is great. But I think more heal and condition removal is really worth that cost.
radbout
And perhaps its better to put the curses back on the channelingrit allowing the mm to heal again with good e-management and the rit to curse/hex after popping spirits. you then can consider dropping one of the curseskills (I'd say barbs) for rezz. You now have 4 free slots for healing on your minion-hero so u can add mend there.
downside is that the minion/resto nec can come in the situation of having to do two important jobs on the same time. This makes the heal less reliable when he choses to animate or spam death nova. So I'm not very sure at all about this.
downside is that the minion/resto nec can come in the situation of having to do two important jobs on the same time. This makes the heal less reliable when he choses to animate or spam death nova. So I'm not very sure at all about this.
MercenaryKnight
Just curious, for the 2-man version dissonance looks kinda bad. It lasts only 22 seconds and I realize it's more for the damage. But it still costs 25 energy to cast which you could toss in shelter for the same energy cost, or throw in displacement for decent damage reduction near the beginning of the battle.
Guess it's just personal preference. I suppose subbing it out for say shelter if you were going in an area that would provide high spike damage at the start of a fight (before save yourselves is up) would be a good choice. Then for easier places that give you time to get save yourselves up just go for damage instead.
Guess it's just personal preference. I suppose subbing it out for say shelter if you were going in an area that would provide high spike damage at the start of a fight (before save yourselves is up) would be a good choice. Then for easier places that give you time to get save yourselves up just go for damage instead.
Vann Borakul
I made a new 3hero build. I switched some things around to make it more efficient.
Rt/x
14-15 Communing
13 Spawning Power
Ritual Lord
Pain
Disenchantment
Anguish
Displacement
Union
Armor of Unfeeling
Boon of Creation
Same spirit build but with RL instead of Reclaim Essence.
Rt/N
12-13 Channeling (10+1+1 or 10+1+2)
12 Death Magic
9 Spawning Power (8+1)
Signet of Spirits
Bloodsong
Animate Bone Minions
Death Nova
Putrid Bile
Painful Bond
Boon of Creation
Spirit Siphon
Gave the channel rit minions so the necro could heal without Death Nova sabotaging the healing.
N/Rt
12 Restoration
12 Soul Reaping (10+1+1)
9 Curses (8+1)
Xinrae's Weapon
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Enfeebling Blood
Rejuvenation/Barbs
Protective Was Kaolai
Life
Death Pact Signet
Now has heightened healing ability. Enfeebling to weaken mobs. Rejuvenation also heals for ~320 in total for only 10 energy. It can be changed for Barbs... but I'm not sure which one is better. Barbs is usually very prominent, but I figured Rej could help since this is the only hero with healing when there's usually a half healer as well.
Codes:
OACiAyk8EM/mbuod48xBNdmA
OASjUwiKJSXTlTVBoBKgVTOTMTA
OAhjYoHYITWbSTTO2BciDTjTJXA
Rt/x
14-15 Communing
13 Spawning Power
Ritual Lord
Pain
Disenchantment
Anguish
Displacement
Union
Armor of Unfeeling
Boon of Creation
Same spirit build but with RL instead of Reclaim Essence.
Rt/N
12-13 Channeling (10+1+1 or 10+1+2)
12 Death Magic
9 Spawning Power (8+1)
Signet of Spirits
Bloodsong
Animate Bone Minions
Death Nova
Putrid Bile
Painful Bond
Boon of Creation
Spirit Siphon
Gave the channel rit minions so the necro could heal without Death Nova sabotaging the healing.
N/Rt
12 Restoration
12 Soul Reaping (10+1+1)
9 Curses (8+1)
Xinrae's Weapon
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Enfeebling Blood
Rejuvenation/Barbs
Protective Was Kaolai
Life
Death Pact Signet
Now has heightened healing ability. Enfeebling to weaken mobs. Rejuvenation also heals for ~320 in total for only 10 energy. It can be changed for Barbs... but I'm not sure which one is better. Barbs is usually very prominent, but I figured Rej could help since this is the only hero with healing when there's usually a half healer as well.
Codes:
OACiAyk8EM/mbuod48xBNdmA
OASjUwiKJSXTlTVBoBKgVTOTMTA
OAhjYoHYITWbSTTO2BciDTjTJXA
Abedeus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
The MM cannot have heals on him. The AI will make the hero cast death nova on a target before they cast a heal. In other words, the hero would rather want it to die than to stay alive.
Well, that's one thing.
But any 2-second skill that doesn't help your team on a character with heals is kinda risky.
But any 2-second skill that doesn't help your team on a character with heals is kinda risky.
radbout
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vann Borakul
Rt/x
14-15 Communing
13 Spawning Power
Ritual Lord
Pain
Disenchantment
Anguish
Displacement
Union
Armor of Unfeeling
Boon of Creation
Same spirit build but with RL instead of Reclaim Essence.
Rt/N
12-13 Channeling (10+1+1 or 10+1+2)
12 Death Magic
9 Spawning Power (8+1)
Signet of Spirits
Bloodsong
Animate Bone Minions
Death Nova
Putrid Bile
Painful Bond
Boon of Creation
Spirit Siphon
Gave the channel rit minions so the necro could heal without Death Nova sabotaging the healing.
N/Rt
12 Restoration
12 Soul Reaping (10+1+1)
9 Curses (8+1)
Xinrae's Weapon
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Enfeebling Blood
Rejuvenation/Barbs
Protective Was Kaolai
Life
Death Pact Signet
Now has heightened healing ability. Enfeebling to weaken mobs. Rejuvenation also heals for ~320 in total for only 10 energy. It can be changed for Barbs... but I'm not sure which one is better. Barbs is usually very prominent, but I figured Rej could help since this is the only hero with healing when there's usually a half healer as well.
Codes:
OACiAyk8EM/mbuod48xBNdmA
OASjUwiKJSXTlTVBoBKgVTOTMTA
OAhjYoHYITWbSTTO2BciDTjTJXA
Your communing hero can spam offensive spirits but what good will they do if you gotta flag your hero back to make the defensive spirits work properly?
I also miss either shelter or ps this way. atleast one of them is needed
The communing rit should stay as it is I think, its already good.
The other two herobuilds are fine. I would consider changing the channling rt/n into a n/rt and use soulreaping for e-management and allow you to have higher death magic. This also frees two skillslots now being used for e-management, one of these could be used to add splinter back in the other one I for flesh of my flesh.
zelgadissan
Vanquished Ferndale with this build last night with a mesmer and a ranger being the human controlled players. At one point we had two normal Dredge mobs (monk in each), Mungri Magicbox's group (monk boss with another monk), Oni pops, and a Luxon group pop for the supplies quest. Zero deaths.
This setup is too good. Seriously. I'll be trying out these six heroes in a four or five human Urgoz HM trip either tonight or tomorrow. I'll let you know how it relates to the 12-man areas.
This setup is too good. Seriously. I'll be trying out these six heroes in a four or five human Urgoz HM trip either tonight or tomorrow. I'll let you know how it relates to the 12-man areas.
Bill Clinton
If we're talking about times, I have some for you - though no screenshots. You'll just have to take my word.
With a mesmer and an assasin we completed Naphui Corner HM in 19mins, Sunjiang district HM in 14mins (but this could easily have been 10 mins, we got lost for a period) And in 14mins on Gyala Hatchery we were on the last group, 0 Allies had died, only one ritualist death - and then lost due to overextending. Got wiped.
I have no idea about other times for these missions, so its up to you to decided if they're any good.
With a mesmer and an assasin we completed Naphui Corner HM in 19mins, Sunjiang district HM in 14mins (but this could easily have been 10 mins, we got lost for a period) And in 14mins on Gyala Hatchery we were on the last group, 0 Allies had died, only one ritualist death - and then lost due to overextending. Got wiped.
I have no idea about other times for these missions, so its up to you to decided if they're any good.
Missmelady
Just did a quad run in doa with this build. 2 humans with the heroes. little under 2 hours. just watch pulling and u can pretty much go afk while ur in there 
Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton
Moloch Vein
Just wanted to post in the thread saying that we finished Mallyx in NM with a 5-hero build (and it could've been 6 heroes instead, I'm certain), that did not include SY. We used:
Heroes:
Rt/x Wanderlust/Earthbind
Rt/x Signet of Ghostly Might
N/Rt Weapon of Remedy
P/W Stunning Strike
P/Rt Consume Soul
Players:
N/Rt Signet of Spirits/Painful Bond
E/Rt Prism/Restoration
E/Mo Ether Renewal/Prot/GDW
Spirits have indeed been pushed over-the-top with the latest update. It's especially important to note Earthbind.
I'm dubious as to the value of minions on this sort of team build. It will crash Union fast and you already have a lot of distraction in the form of attack spirits.
Another thing to note is that anyone NOT running superior Channeling/Communing runes on their rit heroes are stupid.
Heroes:
Rt/x Wanderlust/Earthbind
Rt/x Signet of Ghostly Might
N/Rt Weapon of Remedy
P/W Stunning Strike
P/Rt Consume Soul
Players:
N/Rt Signet of Spirits/Painful Bond
E/Rt Prism/Restoration
E/Mo Ether Renewal/Prot/GDW
Spirits have indeed been pushed over-the-top with the latest update. It's especially important to note Earthbind.
I'm dubious as to the value of minions on this sort of team build. It will crash Union fast and you already have a lot of distraction in the form of attack spirits.
Another thing to note is that anyone NOT running superior Channeling/Communing runes on their rit heroes are stupid.
MercenaryKnight
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by mage767
Please post screenshots with your words. I can claim that I have done Abaddons Gate HM in min bt we know I would be lying. Infact, I did finish Abaddon's Gate HM in 11 minutes with no cons, all 3-heroes (my builds) and 4 henchies. I have a screenshot which I have posted twice in your threads and each time it got censored.
I am not bashing your builds. I just want proof using screenshots (as Smiling Assassin has shown) that your 1-man or 2-men hero builds can indeed perform better (time-wise lets say) in HM areas of the GW game.
I am still waiting to see your 'proud' results in the form of screenshots.
Thank you.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1515/gw029y.jpg
Can't get a screenshot of me attacking him, because everytime he becomes vulnerable he takes about 1,000 damage, which kills him (as you can see from his health bar). Once the monolith died, he became vulnerable and instantly died. 9 minutes, I'm sure I can do better.
Switched out the necro for a PnH monk, since a MM is useless in this mission.
Quote:
