UWSC going to be nerfed? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

own age myname

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Minnesota

[TAS]

R/

08 Aug 2009 at 19:18 - 241

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadgerzFTW

Yeah, but, the problem here is that assassins in PvE are completely useless without SF. you said it yourself, SF or GTFO is how it is with assassins, not other classes. Other classes actually have a use in most everything else, including most other SC's. Maybe some even have more than one use! (besides paragons). Devoting most of a bar to dagger attacks is useless in PvE, and critscythe is decent but most groups would rather use something else.

Learn to play the sin please. Sins are amazing in PvE. Not many people actually know how to use them (part of it is most sins are kids who want to be Naruto or something).

Targren

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Primeval Warlords[wuw]

R/

08 Aug 2009 at 20:13 - 242

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

However, when 2 assassins are able to clear UW in 30 minutes, something is up, no exception.

When the hell did THAT happen? Seriously, this is getting silly now. If you're going to whine about UWSC, fine, that's your prerogative, but what's with this making crap up?

2 sins in 30 minutes? Wow.

Bug John

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

08 Aug 2009 at 20:18 - 243

and what exactly do you guys think you'll get if SC builds are nerfed ?

people hoping SC farmers will stop and group with them if their builds are nerfed always make me smile

JONO51

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

P/

08 Aug 2009 at 20:23 - 244

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

When the hell did THAT happen? Seriously, this is getting silly now. If you're going to whine about UWSC, fine, that's your prerogative, but what's with this making crap up?

2 sins in 30 minutes? Wow.

http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showp...&postcount=153

near enough 30 mins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

and what exactly do you guys think you'll get if SC builds are nerfed ?

people hoping SC farmers will stop and group with them if their builds are nerfed always make me smile

the farmers will leave and those that want to play will be able to find like minded people there without waiting around for hours to try form a group, only seeing glf mtns wastes etc.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

08 Aug 2009 at 20:26 - 245

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

When the hell did THAT happen? Seriously, this is getting silly now. If you're going to whine about UWSC, fine, that's your prerogative, but what's with this making crap up?

2 sins in 30 minutes? Wow.

You're right, I am making stuff up. It was really an assassin and an elementalist in 33 minutes. Now before you go call me out on photoshop, here are three more fast runs. And for the hell of it, an assassin soloing the UW in 1:14.

Before you accuse someone of making crap up, make sure they can't back up what they said.

Targren

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Primeval Warlords[wuw]

R/

08 Aug 2009 at 20:38 - 246

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Before you accuse someone of making crap up, make sure they can't back up what they said.

You're right. I apologize. I've gotten so used to the "rhetorical styles" of people like Ugh and Toxic that I assumed the worst about your post.

Still, if that is real (if the original poster, not you, is not being duplicitous), I am impressed, but you have to acknowledge that things like that are one hell of an outlying edge case and NOT the norm.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

08 Aug 2009 at 20:45 - 247

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

You're right. I apologize. I've gotten so used to the "rhetorical styles" of people like Ugh and Toxic that I assumed the worst about your post.

Still, if that is real (if the original poster, not you, is not being duplicitous), I am impressed, but you have to acknowledge that things like that are one hell of an outlying edge case and NOT the norm.

Eh, it's alright. I don't exactly believe everything I see here, either.

I've spoken to two people in game who have claimed to do it, and it seems very possible. I'm sure there are many more people than 8 doing the duo runs in a reasonable time. The fact that two players can clear the UW in HM in 33 minutes proves how absolutely broken shadow form is.

Bug John

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

08 Aug 2009 at 20:47 - 248

Quote:

Originally Posted by JONO51

the farmers will leave and those that want to play will be able to find like minded people there without waiting around for hours to try form a group, only seeing glf mtns wastes etc.

so you want people that don't enjoy playing the game the way you like to leave ? how do you think making people leave will help you get in a group ?

btw, people do sc for money, they're totally different from people willing to form a non-sc group, trying to make them leave won't change anything

you sir are egoistic, and you don't have a clue what you're talking about

Targren

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Primeval Warlords[wuw]

R/

08 Aug 2009 at 20:48 - 249

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Eh, it's alright. I don't exactly believe everything I see here, either.

I've spoken to two people in game who have claimed to do it, and it seems very possible. I'm sure there are many more people than 8 doing the duo runs in a reasonable time.

I have to wonder what the E/A build is...

But two people in the masses of SCers, much less the GW population, is hardly a meaningful statistic, and I don't think it's reasonable to extrapolate that more people are doing that than 8-manning.

Quote:

The fact that two players can clear the UW in HM in 33 minutes proves how absolutely broken shadow form is.

See, here is where we fall apart. I don't think it proves anything about shadow form. When you compare the majority of other shadow form farms, they're downright slow. It proves more that the area is too simple, if Shadow Form and all it's maluses are still enough to blast it like that, because they really are not enough elsewhere.

own age myname

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Minnesota

[TAS]

R/

08 Aug 2009 at 20:50 - 250

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

You're right, I am making stuff up. It was really an assassin and an elementalist in 33 minutes. Now before you go call me out on photoshop, here are three more fast runs. And for the hell of it, an assassin soloing the UW in 1:14.

Before you accuse someone of making crap up, make sure they can't back up what they said.

Funny thing is, is that they are all faster then UWSC pugs lol.

Targren

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Primeval Warlords[wuw]

R/

08 Aug 2009 at 20:51 - 251

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

Funny thing is, is that they are all faster then UWSC pugs lol.

Guildie-Slowpokeway tends to be faster than UWSC pugs too...

JONO51

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

P/

08 Aug 2009 at 21:00 - 252

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

so you want people that don't enjoy playing the game the way you like to leave ? how do you think making people leave will help you get in a group ?

btw, people do sc for money, they're totally different from people willing to form a non-sc group, trying to make them leave won't change anything

you sir are egoistic, and you don't have a clue what you're talking about

Then thing is, the entire place is full of farmers. It means the people that want to just play the area get discouraged and leave, making it impossible to make a normal group. i have no problem with farmers, I just find it stupid when the farmers saturate an area to the point where making a regular group is impossible and it becomes a case of join them or leave. shadow form is the main reason this has happened, therefore, should be nerfed.

own age myname

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Minnesota

[TAS]

R/

08 Aug 2009 at 21:05 - 253

Quote:

Originally Posted by JONO51

Then thing is, the entire place is full of farmers. It means the people that want to just play the area get discouraged and leave, making it impossible to make a normal group. i have no problem with farmers, I just find it stupid when the farmers saturate an area to the point where making a regular group is impossible and it becomes a case of join them or leave. shadow form is the main reason this has happened, therefore, should be nerfed.

There will always be speed clears. Nerfing shadow form is just a force to move on to the next niche build.

Like stated before, you'll need to nerf the mechanics of UW/FoW to stop speed clears.

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

08 Aug 2009 at 21:25 - 254

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Eh, it's alright. I don't exactly believe everything I see here, either.

I've spoken to two people in game who have claimed to do it, and it seems very possible. I'm sure there are many more people than 8 doing the duo runs in a reasonable time. The fact that two players can clear the UW in HM in 33 minutes proves how absolutely broken shadow form is.

No it doesnt prove how broken shadow form is. It proves either a) how much time people are willing to waste to get the easiest spawns and most luck possible in the UW, or b) how skilled a select few players are compared to 99% of the rest of us, assuming they're able to do it consistently.

Skill/persistence is rewarded.

Bug John

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

08 Aug 2009 at 21:34 - 255

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

There will always be speed clears. Nerfing shadow form is just a force to move on to the next niche build.

Like stated before, you'll need to nerf the mechanics of UW/FoW to stop speed clears.

that's the point

too many farmers discouraging normal groups ? you need more resolve

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

09 Aug 2009 at 02:43 - 256

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

and what exactly do you guys think you'll get if SC builds are nerfed ?

People will use the next best farming tool - and that's where ANet needs to follow up and fix that. SF is just one step of many in making a better and balanced PvE gameworld.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

No it doesnt prove how broken shadow form is. It proves either a) how much time people are willing to waste to get the easiest spawns and most luck possible in the UW, or b) how skilled a select few players are compared to 99% of the rest of us, assuming they're able to do it consistently.

Skill/persistence is rewarded.

And that's quite a massive and quickly acquired reward for only two people.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

09 Aug 2009 at 03:07 - 257

Just give the creatures in the Underworld appropriate skills to turn off Shadow Form?

Ugh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

R/

09 Aug 2009 at 03:16 - 258

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Just give the creatures in the Underworld appropriate skills to turn off Shadow Form?

The only core skill from a core profession that can bypass shadow form is Well of the Profane and it's "meh." I guess they could put it on some creatures (Dying Nightmare?), but it probably wouldn't be a threat. Or, they could allow non-core skills/professions. But, that would call for a complete redesign of UW (which might not be a bad idea).

Quote:

I've gotten so used to the "rhetorical styles" of people like Ugh

Yay, I'm famous.

mage767

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

USA

LOVE

Me/E

09 Aug 2009 at 03:19 - 259

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Just give the creatures in the Underworld appropriate skills to turn off Shadow Form?

Give some creatures Mind Shock (ele elite) and a monster elite as the Stormcloud Incubus have in EOTN dungeons.

LOL. that should fix all UWSC clears.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mind_Shock

Ugh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

R/

09 Aug 2009 at 03:22 - 260

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Give some creatures Mind Shock (ele elite) as the Stormcloud Incubus have in EOTN dungeons.

LOL. that should fix all UWSC clears.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mind_Shock

That's a spell and should fail against SF. Maybe you're thinking of Soulrending Shriek?

Danax

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2007

Ontario

R/Mo

09 Aug 2009 at 03:22 - 261

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Give some creatures Mind Shock (ele elite) and a monster elite as the Stormcloud Incubus have in EOTN dungeons.

LOL. that should fix all UWSC clears.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mind_Shock

Its a spell??

vamp08

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

PA, USA

[COPY]

D/

09 Aug 2009 at 03:45 - 262

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadgerzFTW

...assassins in PvE are completely useless without SF.

Incorrect. Flashing Blades. We do have a use, most sins are too ignorant to see past Shadow Form.

bitchbar player

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

still lost

Guy In Real Life [GIRL]

Mo/

09 Aug 2009 at 04:10 - 263

just give some monsters leech signet but i rather see sf die a painfull dead

Steps_Descending

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

IN my pocket plane. Obviously!

Little Tom's Pocket Plane [THom]

Me/Mo

09 Aug 2009 at 04:31 - 264

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

btw, people do sc for money, they're totally different from people willing to form a non-sc group, trying to make them leave won't change anything

That got me thinking... What is exactly the point of SCs? Last time I read the updates there was no title that required farming UW, the latest craze was VSs, then came the Zaishen Quest bags (equipment bags was that the name?) So... why are we still playing so seriously?

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

09 Aug 2009 at 04:32 - 265

Quote:

Originally Posted by vamp08

Incorrect. Flashing Blades. We do have a use, most sins are too ignorant to see past Shadow Form.

Uhm- You're right that most sins can't see past Shadow Form. However, Flashing Blades isn't the elite you'd want to be using in PvE.

Quote:

That got me thinking... What is exactly the point of SCs? Last time I read the updates there was no title that required farming UW, the latest craze was VSs, then came the Zaishen Quest bags (equipment bags was that the name?) So... why are we still playing so seriously?

Drops and e-peen. Having the fastest time in a zone sends all your blood to your pants, and the faster you can clear a zone the faster you can get the drops from the end-chest, the more time you have to clear the zone again, the more chances you have to get a rarer drop.

Targren

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Primeval Warlords[wuw]

R/

09 Aug 2009 at 04:46 - 266

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

Uhm- You're right that most sins can't see past Shadow Form. However, Flashing Blades isn't the elite you'd want to be using in PvE.

gogogo Moebius Strike

Actually, with the recent lead-attack recharge buffs, maybe it's time to look into some chains that start over, though Wild Blow should be an elite in the hands of assassins.

leetLoLa

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2009

Pawn!

Who Are You [wAu]

W/Mo

09 Aug 2009 at 19:45 - 267

nah if sf die many ppl will ragequit GW CAUSE their profit is comin from scs =S

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

09 Aug 2009 at 20:39 - 268

Quote:

Originally Posted by leetLoLa

nah if sf die many ppl will ragequit GW CAUSE their profit is comin from scs =S

And then they will get over it and slowly start to come back... like they did with Ursan.

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

09 Aug 2009 at 20:46 - 269

Quote:

Originally Posted by leetLoLa

nah if sf die many ppl will ragequit GW CAUSE their profit is comin from scs =S

The only people who win are the people with huge amounts of time on their hands. If everyone's farming the same exact thing at the same exact rate, everyone that farms less than the mean number of hours per week is getting poorer. Your pinky blobs are worth less and less every week (in terms of what you can buy with them), and so are the drops from the end chest.

Of course, it's the people who don't care to farm that REALLY get owned.

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

09 Aug 2009 at 21:36 - 270

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Re: 2 man UW
And that's quite a massive and quickly acquired reward for only two people.

Actually, it's NOT. If you bothered to read, you would have seen this point made time and time ago. Even if these people are capable of doing 2 man UW consistently (which is dubious), the rewards are only comparable to an 8 man UWSC, which is itself, only comparable to feather farm.

Again, there's no economic reason to nerf SF without nerfing ALL the other non-SF farms in existence.

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

09 Aug 2009 at 21:39 - 271

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

The only people who win are the people with huge amounts of time on their hands. If everyone's farming the same exact thing at the same exact rate, everyone that farms less than the mean number of hours per week is getting poorer. Your pinky blobs are worth less and less every week (in terms of what you can buy with them), and so are the drops from the end chest.

Of course, it's the people who don't care to farm that REALLY get owned.

Right, if you don't farm, then you have less cash than farmers. I fail to see any injustice in that logic.

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

09 Aug 2009 at 23:27 - 272

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Actually, it's NOT. If you bothered to read, you would have seen this point made time and time ago. Even if these people are capable of doing 2 man UW consistently (which is dubious), the rewards are only comparable to an 8 man UWSC, which is itself, only comparable to feather farm.

What sort of warped mathematical universe are you people living in? A skilled team that can complete UW four times an hour is generating a lot more than the 20-25k an hour from feather farming. If that group rotates players around the different slots to even out the distribution, two ectos per player per run is a reasonable estimate of the long-term average. That's eight ectos an hour before you figure in the expected value of ultra-rare chest goodies.

20-25k is borderline excessive for a long-term farm, but it's not totally out of whack with past sustained farms. It's when stuff starts hitting 40k+ an hour that it either gets farmed to death (eg: green farms) or it gets nerfed. For people that don't suck, UWSC meets the latter criteria.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Right, if you don't farm, then you have less cash than farmers. I fail to see any injustice in that logic.

Because you're a PvE-er, and you forget that this other parallel community (PvP) exists in your universe. There's also that problem where ANet prefers that players actually play the game, but I think that players have pretty conclusively proven that's just never going to happen.

The Halls chest and the monthly are solid farms for the PvP crowd, but they're fairly exclusive. The rest of the PvP community catches it in the shorts when stuff like this goes on.

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

10 Aug 2009 at 00:54 - 273

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

What sort of warped mathematical universe are you people living in? A skilled team that can complete UW four times an hour is generating a lot more than the 20-25k an hour from feather farming. If that group rotates players around the different slots to even out the distribution, two ectos per player per run is a reasonable estimate of the long-term average. That's eight ectos an hour before you figure in the expected value of ultra-rare chest goodies.

20-25k is borderline excessive for a long-term farm, but it's not totally out of whack with past sustained farms. It's when stuff starts hitting 40k+ an hour that it either gets farmed to death (eg: green farms) or it gets nerfed. For people that don't suck, UWSC meets the latter criteria.

Right because 90% of players meet the criteria and can do UWSC 4 times in an hour. Oh wait...

4 UWSCs in one hour is severely pushing the limits. There are likely only a handful of guilds that are capable of this consistently. When you factor in organization time, rotation times, break times, everyone is on a different schedule, and yes, fails (EVERYONE fails sometimes, and there are 8 people), it probably comes out to around 20-30 minutes per UWSC. Given all these factors, it is not enough to be able find 8 different people who are capable of doing their areas consistently in 15 minutes, you need severely tweaked builds capable of doing it in <10 minutes with no room for error.

Quote:

Because you're a PvE-er, and you forget that this other parallel community (PvP) exists in your universe. There's also that problem where ANet prefers that players actually play the game, but I think that players have pretty conclusively proven that's just never going to happen.

The Halls chest and the monthly are solid farms for the PvP crowd, but they're fairly exclusive. The rest of the PvP community catches it in the shorts when stuff like this goes on.

I'm sorry, what does PvE have to do with Pvp? Or are you saying now you need ectos to do Pvp?

Also, even accepting the ridiculous premise that Pvpers should get PvE rewards, ZQ-farm says hi.

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

10 Aug 2009 at 04:48 - 274

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Right because 90% of players meet the criteria and can do UWSC 4 times in an hour. Oh wait...

And a year ago you all couldn't do UW HM in less than 1:15, and the community went absolutely ape when we posted 30 minute screenies (crying Photoshop in disbelief). The community may not be down to 15 minute runs yet, but if the good players can do it now then eventually the slower learners will catch up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

I'm sorry, what does PvE have to do with Pvp? Or are you saying now you need ectos to do Pvp?

lolwut? u need ectos 2 do pve?

Everybody likes nice stuff, and the UWSC crowd isn't down there to scare up cash to outfit Koss with a Minor Swordsmanship rune, ya know? UWSC farmers are after luxuries, not necessities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

ZQ-farm says hi.

What matters is relative rates of speed. That's a LOT slower, except maybe on the /resign wars day. Unless you're holding Halls for hours or making the later single elimination rounds of the mATs, every hour spent PvPing puts you well behind the productivity of the farmer. Not good when the idea was for PvP to be the content players would ultimately graduate to.

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

10 Aug 2009 at 07:21 - 275

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

And a year ago you all couldn't do UW HM in less than 1:15, and the community went absolutely ape when we posted 30 minute screenies (crying Photoshop in disbelief). The community may not be down to 15 minute runs yet, but if the good players can do it now then eventually the slower learners will catch up.

That's a false analogy. The builds for <10 min UWSC have already been posted. The majority of players will NEVER be able to do <10 minute UWSCs for every area.

Quote:

lolwut? u need ectos 2 do pve?

Uh.... yeah you do. Do I need to wiki how many ectos/shards it takes to make an armor set? Do I need to calculate the millions of gold required to max titles and fill halls?

Quote:

Everybody likes nice stuff, and the UWSC crowd isn't down there to scare up cash to outfit Koss with a Minor Swordsmanship rune, ya know? UWSC farmers are after luxuries, not necessities.

This is a game, everything is a luxury. There is nothing essential in the game, not max armor, not max weapons, because Guild Wars itself isn't essential.

Quote:

What matters is relative rates of speed. That's a LOT slower, except maybe on the /resign wars day. Unless you're holding Halls for hours or making the later single elimination rounds of the mATs, every hour spent PvPing puts you well behind the productivity of the farmer. Not good when the idea was for PvP to be the content players would ultimately graduate to.

...I farm ~7k every 15-20 minutes on HB days. No one does /resign anymore. Considering the insane amount of faction you get from HA, I doubt it's any slower, if at all.

Unreal Havoc

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2007

10 Aug 2009 at 08:05 - 276

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Uh.... yeah you do. Do I need to wiki how many ectos/shards it takes to make an armor set? Do I need to calculate the millions of gold required to max titles and fill halls?

The key word was "need"

Quote:

lolwut? u need ectos 2 do pve?

You don't "need" ecto to do PvE.

Hermos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Forever in Demand [FiD]

A/

10 Aug 2009 at 08:19 - 277

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

You don't "need" ecto to do PvE.

Right then, you try doing GWAMM without a farm like UWSC and without playing 10+ hours a day in a reasonable amount of time.

If you want to max titles fast, you need to make money fast. If you're not in a good guild which does 8 man farm teams regularly or if you can't run dungeons, your options are severely limited. Either sit outside Kamadan in HM farming those 6g Iboga Petals to make the 2 million required to max Party Animal for your last title, or do some UWSCing.

If you have a better alternative, please do share, because I'd love to be able to max my money sink titles without the pain and torture that is PuGing UWSC.

The truth is, the UWSC gave casual players a reasonable alternative to playing excessively and powertrading to reach their millions. Now all the high end PvE players who made their millions already through rigorous, trivial farms or through player services now hate the fact that other players can achieve what they did in half the time with the same effort involved.

Unreal Havoc

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2007

10 Aug 2009 at 08:48 - 278

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermos

Right then, you try doing GWAMM without a farm like UWSC and without playing 10+ hours a day in a reasonable amount of time.

This is a weak counter argument because you don't "need" to do GWAMM. It's entirely optional.

Many people got GWAMM before UWSC was ever introduced.

Hermos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Forever in Demand [FiD]

A/

10 Aug 2009 at 08:50 - 279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

This is a weak counter argument because you don't "need" to do GWAMM. It's entirely optional.

Well then the only other definition of PvE would be "fun", wouldn't it? If nothing is a necessity, then neither is nerfing SF or UWSC.

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

10 Aug 2009 at 09:06 - 280

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadgerzFTW

Yeah, but, the problem here is that assassins in PvE are completely useless without SF. you said it yourself, SF or GTFO is how it is with assassins, not other classes. Other classes actually have a use in most everything else, including most other SC's. Maybe some even have more than one use! (besides paragons). Devoting most of a bar to dagger attacks is useless in PvE, and critscythe is decent but most groups would rather use something else.

Completely agreed. I could careless how good their dagger attacks are...I still have to rush into the fray with shitty armor and no decent defense skill other than perma SF.

All non-secondary defense options for sins have some ridiculous requirements or downside. Ridiculously low uptime (feigned neutrality), being blinded as a melee class (shadow sanctuary), delayed heal that requires attacking to have full effect (Shadow refuge), ends on attack (dark escape + feigned neutrality), teleporting to random location and risk the chance of getting aggro on a backline char (heart of shadows)....the only decent one is critical agility, and even that requires constant attacking to be kept up and is stripable.

Sins also have to spend energy for attacks AND have to execute a combo in order....all that and sins still get overshadowed in damage by warrior auto attacking and spamming adrenaline attacks...and the war can still fit in a healing skill without extra attribute investment (Lion's comfort), an IAS (without secondary investment), a superior IMS compared to dash (also without secondary investment), and also the totally superior SY! which outclassed all the shitty PvE skills that sins have.

As for shadow form....it doesn't really overpowers anything outside of UWSC and FowSC. Change the mobs in UW/FoW, leave the skill.