UPDATE - August 6th, 2009

Does anyone here think they would bother with sand shards? Or no?

I am thinking: Winter's Embrace-Touch Hex Spell. (2...5...6 seconds.) You and target foe move 90% slower.

should become: for 3 seconds, Target touched foes move 90% slower, Caster move 90% faster otherwise who voluntarily wants to move 90% slower?? Doesn't make one bit of sense, this skill in its original state

or option: for 3 seconds, Target touched foes move 90% slower, caster move 90% slower and casting time reduce by 50%. Now, this make sense, touch someone and cast some aoe real fast so they die while unable to run away.

That would only be good if their reasons weren't bad and ridden with fallacies.

Such as using reasons concerning PvE to balance a skill's PvP version. It is so obvious that these skill updates are from a PvE scrub perspective it is not even funny.

Ironically the best thing about this update is that they didn't fix XTH.

Thats not the point, first off, their "fallacies" are your personal opinion. Obviously you can't have empathy or relate to other people by seeing it through their POV. They stated their perceived goals/reasons and referenced previous updates to support these goals, and I would say did a damn good job of doing that. Whether or not you agree with the updates, it was very thorough on what Linsey/The Live Team thought they wanted to achieve and for that I applaud them. Up until now they have mostly been falling over their own feet on discernable reasons and communicating those reasons to the community.

I say this was a good update because they stated their intentions and followed through pretty thoroughly, whether or not it met your personal wants (it met mine, see Derv skill changes tyvm).

EDIT: I'm pretty sure Sand Shards was meant to be a PvE directed skill anyways...it only makes sense, since that is where AoEs are most effective.

Sand Shards
For 1...5...7 days you will see 90% more dervishs in RA,after 1 week,nothing happens.

Just played RA with my monk and got 10 wins,8 of them had AT LEAST 2 dervishs using sand shards,winter's embrace and some lame snares.
Awesome update btw...but giving aoe to dervs was a terrible idea...

I'm actually going to try out Sand Shards with snare

Vow of Piety, Winds of Disenchantment, and Aura Slicer are quite welcome on my skillbar now. Just have to find room for WoD and AS.

Conviction does seem a bit powerful, but maybe it'll allow me to actually fit damage skills on my earthy builds.

Selfless Spirit change is a bit much, but then again I didn't see many monks use that skill.

Illusion of Pain is pretty nasty. I'll have to check what enemies use that.

I <3 the illusion of pain buff. This means we can farm The great destroyer oh so much easier.

Giving AoE to a class dedicated to AoE damage is a bad idea?

Anyway, RA is always full of Dervish, sins, and warriors to a ridiculously out of proportion degree. Thus all the "stupid noob blind" comments are always fun as I roll through there on my ele.

I also enjoy "Noob runner" and "blocking bitch".

The old Sand Shards seemed so much better though, especially since this new one deals earth damage and thus ends up dealing like 8 damage per second. I expect a revert like OoU.

To kick off this post, I'd like to thank Anet for once again proving that my faith in them after the rit/para buffs was not misplaced. The pet buffs look awesome. My ranger is quite pleased. And my rit is ecstatic to learn that the SoS bug has been fixed.

As for the dervish buffs...I see what you're trying to do, and I appreciate it, but you're fundamentally misunderstanding the problems of the dervish. The problem with the dervish is that warriors and assassins can use nearly all of their skills (including the ones you just buffed) better than the dervish can. You see, the dervish has no synergy with enchantments other than mysticism (which offers nothing except energy). Guess what? W/Ds with Warrior's Endurance and A/Ds with good critical strikes have more energy than a dervish could ever hope to have. They can spam enchantments better than a dervish could ever dream of. And use a scythe better than they can. And be tougher. And do nearly everything else better, too. Dervishes have no synergy with anything; enchantments, their own weapon, secondary professions, you name it. These buffs don't encourage people to use dervishes; they only encourage W/Ds and A/Ds to use more dervish skills. There is currently no reason for primary dervishes to bother with earth or wind prayers, because W/Ds and A/Ds can always make better use of those skills than a primary dervish can due to their vastly superior energy management (which far outweighs the slight benefits conferred by runes).

There have been several threads in the suggestions and dervish campfire sections on how to make dervishes a useful primary profession. Look at one of those, please, because as it stands now there are a grand total of 5 dervish builds that aren't completely redundant (note that "not completely redundant" does not mean GOOD, it just means that a warrior or assassin can't completely beat it in every single category).

Also, please look into Shadow Form (which equates to complete invulnerability for almost all of PvE, which is simply unacceptable) and Ether Renewal (PvE) (which allows elementalists to outheal the best healing monk and outprot the best protection monk simultaneously).

You'll probably never read this particular post, but nevertheless, these are the only problems really left in PvE that I can think of. Fix those, and I'll be satisfied.

how well they execute their goals is irrelevant, if their goals are not appropriate for what they are trying to fix. in this case, many of the updates, especially the ones regarding assassins, are geared specifically for pve only. if that's the case, those should be pve only changes. let's face it, nobody in pvp would care if some random assassin skills can suddenly deal AoE. however, the fast activation buffs, which were made so assassins can get out their combos faster in pve, will potentially break assassins in pvp, especially lower end arenas.

in the end, the changes anet made are not appropriate for the problems at hand. that's why a lot of people are pissed. after all, it doesn't matter how well you've executed your plan, when your plan is to make a giant pile of dung.

Thanks, because we all know how stances stack and how well armor stacks with other skills past +25.

Thanks, I hated having to think and build around a skill to best maximize its synergy with the rest of the bar.

Thanks, because in a team game having to do all the work yourself is the best way to go.

^Thanks for this. Seriously people, it never ceases to amaze me how badly most of this community reacts to anything anet does or doesn't do! I for one appreciate the fact that we even GOT a skill update, and on the first Thursday of the month no less! So thanks Linsey and all you guys working on the dev team for making me want to play my ranger/rit/para/derv again

Well, to be fair, while they have fixed pets (or so I assume; haven't tried the changes out yet), they haven't fixed dervs, not by a long shot. W/Ds and A/Ds can make use of all these new dervish buffs just as well (better actually, since they have better energy management) than primary dervishes. Unfortunately, dervishes still suck.

Some odd skill changes... Like the ele buffs and the Mel Shot nerf. Burning Arrow ftw!

Still waiting for MB to be nerfed... surpised Anet doesn't see it as an overpowered skill.

*grumble grumble* mel shot *grumble*
BA is the only elite I can use for PvP, now. T.T

And yes, MB and SF should have been fixed. QQQQ

Hmmm...You know, I just thought of something.

Dervishes with pets! That's something warriors and sins can't do (well, if they want to use a scythe)!

Ok, make that 6 dervish builds that W/Ds and A/Ds can't do better.

Ahmagod! Assacasters are 10 times more annoying now with Illusion of Pain on their bar =_=. Glad that mesmers got looked at though, spent like 45 minutes contemplating how to incorporate the new skills into a mesmer. Was hugely disappointed that a secondary mesmer just took my cake and ate it.

Ahmagod, it seems like A-Net doesn't like the complexity synergy with both your team and your own bar! Seriously. Some of those skills were fine. The reason they couldn't fit in a bar most of the time was because dervishes had other better alternatives.
The real problem with dervishes.

The Mel's shot nerf had it coming. (I play a ranger too). Surprised it wasn't nerfed harder. You know something is wrong when Mel's Shot is chosen over the 5 other ranger elites 75% of the time. I love the buff to pets in pve though. Nothing else to say other then someone should be receiving a cake for that. (and only that)

I don't play an ele myself but i liked where a-net was coming from when they looked at Earth Magic.

Hah, too bad only secondary profs are going to be taking that update seriously.

Anyone else starting to feel bad that aegis has gone through the washing machine for the nth time?

I approve:
Chain Lightning.
Invoke Lightning.
Pets.

Dislike:
The fact that the things I approve are still shit.
No mesmer-love. I guess this RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOer needs his own update and there wasn't enough time to do it this time.
Potentially Maso, but I kinda gave up on my para.

Boo for no warrior skill updates.

Still a great one, the game is gonna be interessting again, now to wait and see all the new kick ass builds ppl are gonna come up with.

Defy Pain wars in pve just got twice as annoying with armor of sanctitiy, then add in Conviction for totally annoying warriors in RA.
ps: I love wars lol

Tonics no longer make noise in a town or outpost.

BEST UPDATE EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So this is what Linsey has been working 80 hours weeks for.

Niiiiiiiiiice.

Excellent update. The documentation of the reasoning behind the changes is very well done, kudos.

Spent the evening with my Ranger in PvE, the extra slot helps a lot! Now on to my Dervish who can finally quit gathering dust!

I already take seed of life every time i leave town and now it got even better...

SHIIINING FINGEEEERRR!!!!

Depends on your outlook. Death magic scales nonlineary and each 2 points count as solid 50% effectiveness increase. It is aditional minion, two levels for all your other minions and wahtnot. It adds up really fast. Bigger numbers, ay, but really, really bigger.

---

Anyhow, feedback: No SF nerf, Discord buff, tons of unnecesary dartboard buffs. NerfBuff to sand shards, PvP people are not totally happy with no stuff fixed either.

Sigh. What were you trying to achieve?

Hmmm. IMO:

I've never played a bip necro, so I can't speak for masochism's losses. In the current form I do however think it's a great skill. The added health/armor/damage on minions makes the skill outshine the health sacrifice. I absolutely hate discord, so the buff to discord users makes me uneasy. No need to make that team setup any more powerful. Either way masochism is making me redo all my necro hero bars. My own necro almost never does MM, but I expect the derv earth stance and masochism might be a good idea to test out.

mesmers...nothing earth-shattering, but the buffs to 3 skills I never use should be interesting to test out. Maybe when I think illusion magic, I might think beyond "fragility, clumsiness, and signet of illusions". The degen+damage of illusion of pain is a welcome attempt at solving the degen cap problem. Oh hey, that also helps running ATFH. *shrugs*

dervish...I'm really glad to see the buffs to earth and wind prayers, especially the stances. This was exactly what I had in mind when I was thinking of how to improve dervishes. Essentially, I think the way you play a derv should be fundamentally different than melee hack/slash like the assassin/warrior. Much like the paragon using chants/shouts to augment damage, the derv should be using enchants to augment. I think they should continue slowly buffing the enchantment skills and synergy between scythe/enchants until the damage becomes more in line with pure physical pounders.

Eles..wow maybe I should try air magic for a while. The added buffs to water and earth make them attractive. Maybe I'll finally try a dual-elemental line. Who knows, maybe it'll be good.

The buffs to the pve skills make me want to actually heal on my monk again. These buffs are extraordinary. I might have to think of some divine boon prot hero monk bar too.

paragon/warrior/ranger classes are alright. Nothing breaking them or buffing them. I never used melandru's shot since I don't pvp with my ranger, but I could see it was much better than other elites. The pet buffs warrant at least a test on my ranger but I can see they are much better. Rt fix is appreciated, as my rt heros usually carry SoS.

Finally assassins. My main class has gotten buffed. Whenever I run MS, I usually use golden phoenix, so the unasked-for buff is great. There's also finally an alternative to GS and/or golden fox +wild strike. I'll try pvp with the new 1/2 activation buffs and see how that goes. Sharpen seems like a seriously notable buff for daggers, as I always ran through the charges way too fast. Bleeding isn't good enough to warrant usage in pve unless you had absolutely no other skills available, but pvp it's just fine.. I would not even consider it on scythe/barrage builds so no loss there.

overall I think it's a very good step in the right direction. My only complaint was the huge time it took to produce the patch. I understand the time required to make these patches is big, though, so I would say it's only a superfluous request.

I agree with the "PvP got boned again" theory here, and it sucks considering the little PvP I do play is still going to be unbalanced in the areas where I am seeing it the most. And I lol'd very hard at the edit... Tell those bastards I want my Prot Spirit and Aegis back, they keep stealing them from me

Good update considering they didnt completely overbuff about 20 elite skills and break the game for 6 months.

How the hell did they miss Mind Blast? Melandrus Shot had it coming a mile off but Mind Blast is the most abused skill by far.

Paragon healing change is good, passive party healing is always problemtaic, some people will always take things to the extreme and try fit every single one into a build (finale of restoration + mending refrain + recoup) so they really all need to die.

Well I will be able to play a few of my other classes in PvE without getting bored. Probably will be able to put a few new builds together for my sin, derv and ele. As SF bores me and I like to actually use other skills.

So yeah decent update. But then, I don't really care what happens one way or another, as long as vanquishing stays incredibly easy so I don't have to put any effort forth.

A pretty awesome update.

Though the fact that those Lightning spells and Ebon Hawk work better for the monsters too is a worrying thought.

Well... lol @ Mashochism.. gonna be expecting to see that in AB alot now... that's bad

However, in general this was a good update, and unlike most people, im happy that SF or UWSC didn't get nerfed.

Divine Boon now has it's uses now...

Chain Lighting + Invoke Lightning <3<3

Unseen Fury + Shroud of Distress = win...

And lastly, expect to see more pets in PvE now.

The Masochsim change is PvE only so it shouldn't affect AB.

Oh yes my apologies, didn't pay enough attention to realise it was under the PvE Changes Only section

I'll keep it short. RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO You ANET for nerfing Melshot; and dispite your efforts I still wont be buying that crappy pet unlock pack!

Mel Shot was overused, WAY TOO overused. 95% of rangers all abused it to hell and back in PvP.

What amazes me the most about this update is how nicely they told us why they made certain updates (a good thing), but how illogical those reasons are (a bad thing). Much of this horrible logic has been pointed out brilliantly in Racthoh's posts as well as a few others. Its just another case of Anet meaning well but having no idea how to truly fix the problems.

Here is just 1 of about 20 examples of bad logic in this update:

Nobody cares...we already have an invincible button for that class.

I'm SO EXTREMELY ANGRY at the paragon nerf, it's totally useless to use a paragon in PVE now, their arias are underpowered but were worth it thanks to Finale of Restoration. The whole support role got killed now that it's impossible to maintain Finale of Restoration on multiple party members, as I certainly wouldn't bring a paragon just for their weak aria skills.

Finale of Restoration was the only skill that made the Paragon somewhat worth it and the only way the paragon had a valid healing role, now it's just a completely useless class, just delete the whole class now.

they removed save yourselves and there's nothing to fear?!?!!?!!/1/1
this makes me so angry >:(((((((((((((((((

are you serious ?

one paragon is still able to provide constant 80% (or more) damage reduction to the whole party