Best way to nerf UWSC? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

IronSheik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Wolfenstein: Goldrush

Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom]

N/

28 Aug 2009 at 16:26 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueXIV

The easiest non-intrusive way to nerf uwsc would be just to change the AI of the dryders to make them use lava font with one person next to them

You can hit them with sliver and be out of lava font, only pools would suck tbh.

Sliver=Area
Lava=Adjacent

BlueXIV

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

CA

N/

28 Aug 2009 at 16:32 - 42

Bah. I thought lava font was nearby, woops :\.

How bout changing lava font to nearby? :P

Vendetta Wish

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2008

REZZ

W/P

28 Aug 2009 at 16:34 - 43

Are we really going to talk about this again? Almost every week this topic comes up and the same suggestions are regurgateted over and over.

AKB48

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2008

みやき町

Mo/A

28 Aug 2009 at 16:36 - 44

It's too easy to nerf uwsc.....make any one part of UW harder for perma will nerf it. Ex: 1) a group of mesmers(4-5) on mtn that always spawn at the reaper's place with energy depleting signets. 2) Make mindblade specters have signet of weariness, there goes plains. There are lots more ways to nerf uwsc.....Shadow Form is fragile, one mistake, one lag, one misstep and the entire SC goes down like a house of cards, which is also why pugs are more prone to fail.

But without Shadow Form, UW is un-doable, after all, has there ever been a team that can complete all the quests before uwsc came? No, there is, and will not be one, uw is too tough for that.

Saph

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2009

R/

28 Aug 2009 at 16:41 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lydeck

I don't even farm ,but doing this wouldn't be too smart. It'd be like nerfing hammerdins on Diablo II. You don't nerf builds that everyone is using in a game with a low population.

Just imo, though.

I agree. I'm not sure Anet wants to be pissing people off this late in the game. I know whole guilds and alliances of people who would /uninstall if they nerfed perma. xD

And if Anet does decide to change SF, I really hope they keep in mind that not everyone does UWSC or abuses SF.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

28 Aug 2009 at 16:48 - 46

Nerfing skills would just be stupid. People will always figure out how to farm dungeons with different skills as long as the dungeons are "farmable"

Imo, make each floor of each elite dungeon change. For example, have a set of floor designs for each dungeon (lets say 4 for each level) and when you enter the level that dungeon rotates at random between the floor designs. That way, you would never know what you would have to deal with (although, eventually I'm sure people would figure out how to do each level and it's rotations, but it would be harder). Adding different traps and things like that to each floor would also help.

Of course....none of that would never happen. GW doesn't have enough of a Live Team (how is one person a "team" again?) to do anything like that. They'll probably just buff monsters in those dungeons or make each dungeon progress based on events (in other words, you have to do x to get to y, etc.)

MarciNoExcess

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2009

Budapest, Hungary (Europe for Mindstorms)

P/W

28 Aug 2009 at 16:52 - 47

Just make shadow form un-maintainable, even with customables. But it would make SF useless. Remember, long time ago it was great for farming gemstones with our eles.

So, i guess... lasts for max. 30 seconds, recharge time: 120 seconds.

mathiastemplar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

Denmark

Jade Reapers [JD]

W/

28 Aug 2009 at 16:52 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesta

Make it so that SF is more easily be maintained with less energy cost per cycle, but make SF end when you cast a non-assassin spell.

This would fix it.
Good idea

+ I have nothing against speed clears.. but.. UW has gotten a tiny bit too fast:P

On the other hand, I don't see why Anet would nerft SF... would make 70% of all players(sins) /ragequit.
They might make it harder, but not impossible to maintain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

It's too easy to nerf uwsc.....make any one part of UW harder for perma will nerf it. Ex: 1) a group of mesmers(4-5) on mtn that always spawn at the reaper's place with energy depleting signets. 2) Make mindblade specters have signet of weariness, there goes plains. There are lots more ways to nerf uwsc.....Shadow Form is fragile, one mistake, one lag, one misstep and the entire SC goes down like a house of cards, which is also why pugs are more prone to fail.

But without Shadow Form, UW is un-doable, after all, has there ever been a team that can complete all the quests before uwsc came? No, there is, and will not be one, uw is too tough for that.

LOL @ this xD

Fabez

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2009

N/

28 Aug 2009 at 16:54 - 49

Add environmental effects to the Underworld, like the ones encountered in the Realm of Torment/Urgoz's Warren/the Deep.

Targren

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Primeval Warlords[wuw]

R/

28 Aug 2009 at 16:57 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

But without Shadow Form, UW is un-doable, after all, has there ever been a team that can complete all the quests before uwsc came? No, there is, and will not be one, uw is too tough for that.

Lolwut?

Are you confusing UW with DoA HM by any chance(even in that case it's an exaggeration, but only slightly)? Or just being hyperbolic? UW lameway is doable, just long, boring, and unrewarding.

Tar Ionwe

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2008

Cantha

W/E

28 Aug 2009 at 17:06 - 51

once again another thread talking about how to nerf shadow form. my opinion.... leave it. why does it really need to be fixed or nerfed? because you can't find a group to do UW or FoW? boo hoo for you. Find a guild that does balanced builds or what ever you are looking for. I know there are some out there that don't do speed clears. So in my opinion, just leave it.

Pursh

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2009

Moscow, Russia

[lion] IGN: Monk Elvara

Mo/

28 Aug 2009 at 17:10 - 52

Best way to nerf UWSC is to make Shadow Form unmaintainable...

samerkablamer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

The Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

P/W

28 Aug 2009 at 17:14 - 53

Sliver armor now deals damage when a target attacks you, so instead leave it EXACTLY THE SAME except make the damage dealt be dealt when an attack hits OR is blocked, that way it doesnt kill terra farmers but it destroys the shadowform+sliver combo

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

28 Aug 2009 at 17:18 - 54

make rare materials like diamonds/gemstones/ectos/shards/saphires/ not drop anymore.
Make it so that people only get em when they actually finish all quests or goals that make the endchests pop up

Killamus

Guest

Join Date: Oct 2008

28 Aug 2009 at 17:21 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

make rare materials like diamonds/gemstones/ectos/shards/saphires/ not drop anymore.
Make it so that people only get em when they actually finish all quests or goals that make the endchests pop up

What exactly does that do? UWSC is done for the end chest, there's FAR better ways to farm ectos then UWSC. All this would do would make ecto prices double.

madriel222

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2008

Denver, Colorado

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/A

28 Aug 2009 at 17:21 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

make rare materials like diamonds/gemstones/ectos/shards/saphires/ not drop anymore.
Make it so that people only get em when they actually finish all quests or goals that make the endchests pop up

So nerf all the solo/duo farming and promote SC? No thanks.

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

28 Aug 2009 at 17:22 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

What exactly does that do? UWSC is done for the end chest, there's FAR better ways to farm ectos then UWSC. All this would do would make ecto prices double.

Not all groups make it to the end, ooo its so hard to think straight I guess

slowerpoke

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2007

Cuba

28 Aug 2009 at 17:23 - 58

Apparently they are thinking of redoing the whole zone rather than adjusting the necessary skills.

cognophile

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

USA

28 Aug 2009 at 17:31 - 59

Signet of disenchantment could be one part of the answer.

Environmental effects that make enchantments expire more quickly and/or drain energy are other possibilities.

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

28 Aug 2009 at 17:36 - 60

Put the PvP effect in place in UW. Consumables can't be used, pvp versions of skills, and no pve skills.

That should do it. If nothing else, the resulting rage would be highly amusing.

edit: My preferred method is to wait and see what action is taken.

Ebony Shadowheart

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

USA

SSW

E/

28 Aug 2009 at 17:36 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

But without Shadow Form, UW is un-doable, after all, has there ever been a team that can complete all the quests before uwsc came? No, there is, and will not be one, uw is too tough for that.

This is not true, there have been teams to clear UW long before the speed clears came into being; before Ursan was thought of, etc.

It took time (a LOT of it), patience, and decent people, but it was very doable.

Back to the topic at hand....

Nerfing SF is not the answer, and it will only succeed in making people whine. What needs to be changed is how the chest spawns. Changing this into a vanquish in addition to completing all the quests will slow down groups significantly.

Just nerfing SF will bring another SC group build to the fore. Adding sig of disenchant will impact tanking abilities for non-SC groups (removal of obby, bond, PS).

The issue isn't truly with the skill, but with the speed in which the clears take place. If that speed were not possible, then other groups would be equally viable. After all, the object of the speed clear is to get to the chest as quickly as possible, which means killing as little as necessary. Making them kill everything bogs them down and makes the clear slower.

DarkGanni

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Malta

[CuTe]

E/

28 Aug 2009 at 17:38 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

My preferred method, you say?

- Deadly Paradox lasts for 10 seconds and disables all skills for 10 seconds.

Would still be able to Maintain SF.

Dwarven Stability says hi.

Reverting it to old state isn't a bad idea, however with nerfing SF expect something new to come up. It always happens.....

Captain Bulldozer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2008

Servants of the Dragon Flames [SODF]

28 Aug 2009 at 17:40 - 63

If they wanted to JUST nerf UW speed clears, they would simply give everything in the Chaos planes the following skill:

Signet of Weariness

However, they won't likely do this, because UWSC is only a symptom of the disease that is Shadow Form. But then, who knows... maybe they'll treat the symptom rather than the disease. We'll see (someday).

englitdaudelin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

East Coast

Soldier's Union [SU]

N/Me

28 Aug 2009 at 17:40 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabez

Add environmental effects to the Underworld, like the ones encountered in the Realm of Torment/Urgoz's Warren/the Deep.

This might be the strongest and simplest nerf available, one which might keep farming in the game while still limiting speed clears. There could be a UW-wide effect, or each section of UW could get its own effect: One which drops a pip of energy regen, one in which skills cost more energy, one which reduces the damage you put out, and one which shortens the duration of enchantments.

Shadow form itself is not likely to take the nerf. Linsey has said that farming is a viable way of playing the game.

What, then, is likely to take the nerf? The ability to split up and solo the whole place? Maybe the 600-smite team?

Environmental effects could alter SF's permanency. They could alter the duration of Prot Spirit and spirit bond. They could alter the strength of Sliver armor. Could alter Cry of pain, arcane echo, and so on.

Otherwise, A-net will continually play catch-up, as players alter the methods to pump out damage. We've seen Cry, then RoJ, and FoC, and who knows what other methods, as the players outguess A-Net.

toocooltang

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2008

USA

ToA

W/

28 Aug 2009 at 17:50 - 65

Quote:

The issue isn't truly with the skill, but with the speed in which the clears take place. If that speed were not possible, then other groups would be equally viable. After all, the object of the speed clear is to get to the chest as quickly as possible, which means killing as little as necessary. Making them kill everything bogs them down and makes the clear slower.

This is the exact problem with SF, you can run through huge mobs and drag them all over the map while they "attack" and it really only helps you because sliver armor does alot more dmg. Even with OBBY flesh you couldn't run around like a crazy man aggro'ing half a zone because you could still be HIT, just weren't the target of spells.

Ebony Shadowheart

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

USA

SSW

E/

28 Aug 2009 at 17:54 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by toocooltang

This is the exact problem with SF, you can run through huge mobs and drag them all over the map while they "attack" and it really only helps you because sliver armor does alot more dmg. Even with OBBY flesh you couldn't run around like a crazy man aggro'ing half a zone because you could still be HIT, just weren't the target of spells.

They did adjust aggro once so you couldn't pull as many or as far. Further adjustment to this would reduce this issue. Sliver could also be made to break aggro if a creature is getting hit too quickly it. As it some, many foes will back off and regen (to a point) before attacking you again; if you don't corner them that is.

Again, this is zone adjustment though, not skill nerf.

Sarevok Thordin

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Scotland

W/N

28 Aug 2009 at 17:59 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by therangereminem

this wont work becuz its a spell you can not target somone with chabs if ther ein shadowform. if they target it on somone that isnt in sf and your next to them it willremove sf however.

but yeah way to fail and know your skills

Oh poohooo I thought it was PBAoE (possibly it was before?)

There is an idea infact, Make chillblains PBAoE and give them it.

Eat it smartalec.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

28 Aug 2009 at 18:14 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rugar

Remove consumables.

Love it, it will also general pve scrubnes.

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

28 Aug 2009 at 18:17 - 69

Whatever you do to UWSC, you'd need a time machine to make it worthwhile.

Xeros Rex

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2007

UnderWorld

Absence Of Light [AoL]

Mo/Me

28 Aug 2009 at 18:30 - 70

Take of the effect of essence of celerity: reduces skills recharge time to 20% and change it to something else

Schnellburg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

America -5 GMT

Me/

28 Aug 2009 at 18:32 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeros Rex

Take of the effect of essence of celerity: reduces skills recharge time to 20% and change it to something else

Your nerfing more then UWSCs then.

Xeros Rex

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2007

UnderWorld

Absence Of Light [AoL]

Mo/Me

28 Aug 2009 at 18:34 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Your nerfing more then UWSCs then.

Your right I guess that would nerf more.

mastar of warrior

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

sweden

N/A

Mo/

28 Aug 2009 at 18:42 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haxor

Functionality change:

Shadow Form
Enemies now ignore you. You cannot deal any damage whilst enchanted with Shadow Form.

Which wouldnt stop us from being Able to Degen foes to death.

aga

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2009

England

A/

28 Aug 2009 at 18:46 - 74

SF wont get nerfed, rather the areas will be reworked. To nerf UWSC you only need to change 1/2 areas. Some examples, Sig of disenchantment in plains, RoD on the smites, Well of the Prophane in pits, Give behemoths Choking gas/ignite arrows, or tranquility.

The problem with doing these is that it COULD make UW a lot harder for other teams. Especially for tanking, as a lot of tanks rely on enchanments, besides Defy Pain warriors. So there's very much a catch 22 situation that a-net have on their hands, nerf UW, at the cost of making UW more unattaintabe then it was before SF and ursan. Or nerf SF (which they ahve already said they won't be doing).

A few people have mentioned nerfing Sliver, this wouldn't make UWSC all that much harder, as all areas can be done without Sliver, and not neccessarily harder or longer...

zelgadissan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Warrior Priests [WP]

Me/Rt

28 Aug 2009 at 18:46 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkGanni

Would still be able to Maintain SF.

Dwarven Stability says hi.

Ah yes, how could I forget

In that case, how about a functionality change to "Your assassin skills activate and recharge 50% faster. Your skills are disabled." I upped the percentages, so it's a buff

IronSheik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Wolfenstein: Goldrush

Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom]

N/

28 Aug 2009 at 18:58 - 76

You can not use any skills under shadow form except for shadow form.

Shadow form
5e, 1/4c, 45r
(General SF descript here)+ You can not use any stances or non assassin skills while enchanted with shadowform

KoKoS

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

aBove Empress Amarox xP

KDT

Mo/E

28 Aug 2009 at 19:36 - 77

but signet of disenchantment would nerf builds other than SF..

Quote:

just release GW2

this. =P

noneedforclevernames

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

Jay To Much [SrE]

Me/N

28 Aug 2009 at 19:38 - 78

Nerf solo farming in general, anyways why is UWSC such a big deal? It's not like you make a lot of money doing it anyways..

Expherious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2007

Wolfenstein Fuel Dump

Melandru's Elite Hunters [Hunt]

D/

28 Aug 2009 at 19:49 - 79

Nerf SF, 12chars

AKB48

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2008

みやき町

Mo/A

28 Aug 2009 at 19:52 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Lolwut?

Are you confusing UW with DoA HM by any chance(even in that case it's an exaggeration, but only slightly)? Or just being hyperbolic? UW lameway is doable, just long, boring, and unrewarding.

Would you wanna spend hours doing something unrewarding? Doable = you can do it for fun & profit, all the while it doesn't take an eternity to do it. Guess I probably should have made that^ clear.