Confirmation that the Live Team is going after SF this year - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

11 Sep 2009 at 05:15 - 241

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

That's... basically what I said. In conclusion,you are saying doing things efficiently (i.e., farming) is more important to you than doing things that are "fun"?

Nope. I'm saying that accomplishing goals is enjoyable. What you find fun, I find to be a waste of time. The creative process of figuring out how to maximize returns is fun. Killing some random boss with no greater purpose isn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Secondly, what you are saying (that there is no evidence most UWSC players won't do UW balanced) directly contradicts what you said earlier; you previously concluded that many people are goal-oriented and enjoy farming.

I'm not arguing that it's the majority. I'm simply arguing that the set exists. Your statement was a response to another player's complaint that UWSC was precluding that player from forming balanced UW. Your argument was that the UWSC crowd won't balanced UW. But it's extremely probable that at least some subset of the UWSC crowd would substitute to playing UW in slower forms. So the existence of UWSC does affect the player in question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

You also attributed this mindset to people who do UWSC. If both those statements are true, then following your logic, most people who do UWSC won't do UW balanced, since UW balanced will NEVER be an efficient farm.

This then falls into place. Yes, most of the UWSC crowd will move on. But not all of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

My argument is that UWSC is a "fun" farm with decent efficiency.

OK, but this doesn't refute the counterargument that it creates externalities for the rest of us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

You say that failing to change up the meta will create a "mass exodus." Au contraire, killing UWSC will create a mass exodus. Unless A.net is willing to add new content, either by actual new content or significantly changing up an old area (DoA), there will be literally nothing left for many "goal oriented" players to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I know far more people who have left the game due to inbalanced crap not being fixed for ages rather than people who have left due to nerfs.

DreamWind said it better than I would have. As for the "goal-oriented" running out of team play farms, I don't think that's a problem.

Pleikki

WTB q8 15^50 Weapons!

Join Date: Nov 2006

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

11 Sep 2009 at 06:06 - 242

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

People threatened a mass exodus when Ursan was nerfed... and nothing changed. After the qq fest, things got back to normal.

Honestly traversc, since most people aren't even bothering to listen to the other sides arguments, I'm just going to stop posting on this thread. I feel like a member of Congress.

What's great is that A.net has already said that SF is going up on the chopping block (which was the original point of this thread). So really, all your arguing is pointless. No matter how much you complain, the change is inevitably going to happen. Get used to it.

Agreed.. I havent bothored posting in while now.. just reading and laughing at QQIng

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

11 Sep 2009 at 06:43 - 243

In order to fix SF, the team could've gone through two routes:

1. Nerf SF directly, or
2. Fix the areas SF sees the most use.

Obviously it's a lot easier to just fix one thing as opposed to multiple, but the disadvantage in that is that the areas are still borked up.

In order to truly fix farming, ANet has to take the bigger dish. What ANet's doing right now isn't fixing, it's much more wack-a-mole: hitting one problem doesn't get rid of the rest.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

11 Sep 2009 at 07:05 - 244

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

In order to fix SF, the team could've gone through two routes:

1. Nerf SF directly, or
2. Fix the areas SF sees the most use.

Obviously it's a lot easier to just fix one thing as opposed to multiple, but the disadvantage in that is that the areas are still borked up.

In order to truly fix farming, ANet has to take the bigger dish. What ANet's doing right now isn't fixing, it's much more wack-a-mole: hitting one problem doesn't get rid of the rest.

You do no.2 that will effect everyone not just SF.

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

11 Sep 2009 at 07:30 - 245

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

In order to fix SF, the team could've gone through two routes:

1. Nerf SF directly, or
2. Fix the areas SF sees the most use.

Obviously it's a lot easier to just fix one thing as opposed to multiple, but the disadvantage in that is that the areas are still borked up.

In order to truly fix farming, ANet has to take the bigger dish. What ANet's doing right now isn't fixing, it's much more wack-a-mole: hitting one problem doesn't get rid of the rest.

I disagree with the idea that an area needs fixing just because one skill made it broken. Basically in general (not just UWSC), many areas of the game that people had no problem with became problems when serious inbalance hit the game. I think people seriously underestimate the effects of inbalance on the game...GW realized this far too late.

KZaske

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Boise Idaho

Druids Of Old (DOO)

R/Mo

11 Sep 2009 at 07:35 - 246

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

In order to fix SF, the team could've gone through two routes:

1. Nerf SF directly, or
2. Fix the areas SF sees the most use.

Obviously it's a lot easier to just fix one thing as opposed to multiple, but the disadvantage in that is that the areas are still borked up.

In order to truly fix farming, ANet has to take the bigger dish. What ANet's doing right now isn't fixing, it's much more wack-a-mole: hitting one problem doesn't get rid of the rest.

I whole heartedly disagree. SF (Shadow Form) is the problem. The various areas themselves don't really have a problem as almost any well balanced team, properly played, can clear almost any area. Shadow form has allowed a single profession to rule almost the entire game with a skill set based on a single skill.
On the other side of this mess Shadow Form has allowed assassins be be welcomed into every team for almost anything & everything. Prior to Shadow Form Assassins were the least played of all the professions, even mesmers had more play time. Depending on how they go about "adjusting" Shadow Form, we may see Assassins become a playable PvE profession or we may see them become mules but I really doubt they will still be the farming Kings or Queens they are today.
As for your second point, "In order to truly fix farming, ANet has..." Who said they want to "Fix farming?" What they really want to see is team play, at least that is the impression I got from the live team Q&A at PAX.

As I see it, ANet's only real fault is in taking so long in fixing Shadow Form.

Hermos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Forever in Demand [FiD]

A/

11 Sep 2009 at 08:53 - 247

You see, after consistantly riding the SF train for the past two years, I've realised one thing. ANet want to reward skill and teamwork, yet most of the player base is completely inept at working together. Hence, UWSC's created a path in which these people could create a decent amount of money without even attempting to work together as a team in areas such as DoA.

The problem, in itself, is the player base. If people weren't so "I'm going to do this alone" and "I don't want to change my bar because you're gay", then maybe we'd see more people in the Gate of Anguish AD1 spamming, "GLF Prot monk to go, vent req" instead of "PRO <10 MIN ANY AREA LFG I'M BETTER THAN ALL OF U WATCH ME I AM ILL PROVE IT INVITE ME" in ToA AD1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KZaske

As I see it, ANet's only real fault is in taking so long in fixing Shadow Form.

I absolutely completely agree. The situation has mutated to such an extent that whilst on Vent, I've heard of people using a full on perma shadow form build to do Assault on the Stronghold in Normal Mode. Honestly... I think some drowning puppies actually cried.

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

11 Sep 2009 at 08:56 - 248

It's not like the player base will change though Hermos. It's the internet and everyone's an ass.

As for SF, it died for me when they killed the Vaettir farm. But I didn't QQ too much. The only thing Vaettir did was help my Wisdom title and my sweet/party/drunkard title. Nicholas doesn't do that AS well but he gets the job done so I'm okay with it.

Hermos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Forever in Demand [FiD]

A/

11 Sep 2009 at 09:04 - 249

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

It's not like the player base will change though Hermos. It's the internet and everyone's an ass.

As for SF, it died for me when they killed the Vaettir farm. But I didn't QQ too much. The only thing Vaettir did was help my Wisdom title and my sweet/party/drunkard title. Nicholas doesn't do that AS well but he gets the job done so I'm okay with it.

Exactly, the player base won't change. However, to make sure that the price of Ectos doesn't go completely into ruin, Anet does need to stop it. However, my suggestion is to provide a suitable substitution for UWSC, but that's just not possible unless:

1) Every single person on GW was in a good guild with 7 other friends at the same skill level as them to actually attempt doing high end elite areas or at least succeed doing parts of them with a large amount of fluency and speed.

or

2) PuG's start doing balanced farms that are both efficient and enjoyable, and I wouldn't even dream of doing UW balanced for money unless there was more than a 10% chance of getting a "lottery" weapon from the end chest, ie, something that'll just sort out all of my financial woes for the whole of my GW life.

Before Underworld Speed Clears, there wasn't a chance in hell that somebody who played both casually and alone would be able to get the money for the last few titles of GWAMM or getting the Obsidian sets they wanted before turning 60. Afterwards, it still won't be possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I'm sorry, but what you just said is one of the stupidest things I've heard in my entire life. That mindset is one of the biggest problems with the game.

All you did there was just say, "You're rubbish, your arguments are rubbish. You're why this game is crap. Lalalallala..."

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

11 Sep 2009 at 09:45 - 250

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I disagree with the idea that an area needs fixing just because one skill made it broken. Basically in general (not just UWSC), many areas of the game that people had no problem with became problems when serious inbalance hit the game. I think people seriously underestimate the effects of inbalance on the game...GW realized this far too late.

SF didn't "break" those areas.
SF exploited the poor design of those areas. And that needs fixing and that's what (I imagine) B was going at.
Raptor cave anyone?

And of course this will effect everyone playing there.
But if this is a problem, then people just need to stop sucking. Seriously, if an area where one currently finds groups that consist of 8 mesmers or assassins or any other easily counter-able team suddenly become unbeatable after one changes these groups to consists out of 3 mesmers, 3 warriors and 2 monks - then I guess somebody will just need to learn how to play.
It's this stupid design that allows for such anomalies as SF. And as long as that is in the game - the only thing that will change is the name of what is breaking this area.

But I guess that's too much to understand for people who look at the game on micro-level. It's just much easier to shout "NERF URSAN!!1!!" and then a few months later "NERF SF!1!!!". And, in a few months they will be shouting "NERF XY!1!!!".
But hey, at least it provides giggles.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

11 Sep 2009 at 09:58 - 251

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

It's this stupid design that allows for such anomalies as SF. And as long as that is in the game - the only thing that will change is the name of what is breaking this area.

I'm not so sure. If Shadow Form were not PvP nerfed, how many teams in RA would actually be able to kill a perma? What about in HA? GvG? Off the top of my head of the hundred skills or so viable in PvP, the only ones that work against Shadow Form are Shock and Signet of Humility. Says quite a lot ...

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

11 Sep 2009 at 10:25 - 252

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I'm not so sure. If Shadow Form were not PvP nerfed, how many teams in RA would actually be able to kill a perma? What about in HA? GvG? Off the top of my head of the hundred skills or so viable in PvP, the only ones that work against Shadow Form are Shock and Signet of Humility. Says quite a lot ...

And PvP is relevant here because ....?

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

11 Sep 2009 at 10:58 - 253

It illustrates the huge range of skills which Shadow Form bypasses. I'd argue that instead of areas being badly designed, it's Shadow Form which is badly designed.

Shasgaliel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

[bomb]

11 Sep 2009 at 11:20 - 254

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermos

Exactly, the player base won't change. However, to make sure that the price of Ectos doesn't go completely into ruin, Anet does need to stop it. However, my suggestion is to provide a suitable substitution for UWSC, but that's just not possible unless:

Who cares about ecto prizes except people abusing UW? For me they could be for 50g. Then all UW abusing will disappear in one day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermos

1) Every single person on GW was in a good guild with 7 other friends at the same skill level as them to actually attempt doing high end elite areas or at least succeed doing parts of them with a large amount of fluency and speed.

I was guildless for a while. Did UW full run on my warrior with just one friend. You know there are also heroes there... Now people think that SF is the only way to do it. I am afraid that after SF nerf UW will as empty as DOA after Ursan nerf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermos

Before Underworld Speed Clears, there wasn't a chance in hell that somebody who played both casually and alone would be able to get the money for the last few titles of GWAMM or getting the Obsidian sets they wanted before turning 60. Afterwards, it still won't be possible.

Ever heard about pvp? Playing pvp was actually best way to become rich.
Anyways myself I never farmed anything except collectibles for Nicholas and I can afford whatever I need. I guess we are both playing different games...

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

11 Sep 2009 at 11:22 - 255

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

SF didn't "break" those areas.
SF exploited the poor design of those areas. And that needs fixing and that's what (I imagine) B was going at.

That's actually precisely what I was getting at.

As long as there are monster mobs with no variation and as long as the AI is as HURR DURR as it is now, there's going to be people "exploiting" the game. Until then you're left with whack-a-mole: one issue gets nerfed, one other gets yelled it. Won't end until the main chunk of the game gets fixed.

And it just makes me feel all fuzzy inside hearing someone call me B !

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

11 Sep 2009 at 11:29 - 256

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermos

All you did there was just say, "You're rubbish, your arguments are rubbish. You're why this game is crap. Lalalallala..."

90% true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

SF didn't "break" those areas.
SF exploited the poor design of those areas. And that needs fixing and that's what (I imagine) B was going at.
Raptor cave anyone?

I disagree that the areas had poor design. You can't say they only have poor design if a skill comes along to show it. That means the skill is a problem not the area. And if you mean poor design as in the AI is bad...well good luck getting Anet to fix that now or in GW2.

Improvavel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

11 Sep 2009 at 11:42 - 257

Both the area and SF are poorly designed.

UW is a crappy place filled with abusable areas.

The saddest part is that a balanced team will take craploads of time doing it and the drops are incredible bad because Anet has nerfed the drop rate time and again to stop farmers.

The best way to do poorly designed areas will still be TANK+Nukers, so expect obby tanks in DoA HM.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

11 Sep 2009 at 12:03 - 258

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I disagree that the areas had poor design. You can't say they only have poor design if a skill comes along to show it. That means the skill is a problem not the area. And if you mean poor design as in the AI is bad...well good luck getting Anet to fix that now or in GW2.

Lack of mob variation leads to farming. When mobs actually have a broader variety of professions, you (as the dev) are able to more easily overcome builds that are soloing and rolling through the areas.

QueenofDeath

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2009

11 Sep 2009 at 12:31 - 259

Quote:

People threatened a mass exodus when Ursan was nerfed

You obviously didn't take head counts like I did because plenty of things changed and the population reduced when Ursans was nerfed. Just as it will reduce when SF is nerfed.

Thing is nobody cares if people quit. Not caring doesn't change the fact that the population goes down and there are less buyers and thus prices will have to drop and drop and drop. Just like going to your favorite store or burger shop. If they take your favorite thing off the shelves or no longer make the triple deluxe, triple cheese, triple pickles, onions etc then you are likely to go someplace else that does.

But, on the other hand just because you are an NFL football player (SF/UWSC players) doesn't mean you should have the right to first pick of the new vegetables either. Lil 80 year old granny should be right beside you getting her grubby wrinkley nasty hands on them at the same time and getting as many as you.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

11 Sep 2009 at 13:01 - 260

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

You obviously didn't take head counts like I did because plenty of things changed and the population reduced when Ursans was nerfed. Just as it will reduce when SF is nerfed.

Good riddance I say.
And it's not that I don't care, I do, really.
Less people who won't play without their shitty gimmicky builds = gooood.
I care about the game.

Inde

Site Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2004

11 Sep 2009 at 14:39 - 261

SF - first question in the video. Just more of an FYI to see what Linsey said about it:

http://www.youtube.com/user/arenanet...11/-3ScVRiFm3A

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

11 Sep 2009 at 14:53 - 262

Just confirms everything that I've ever said about how the influence of ANet's marketing department corrupted the game. The second that you stop maximizing the quality of the game to pander to a certain segment of that audience, your game is doomed.

ANet painted themselves into a corner on this one, just as they did with Ursan. By permitting a community to grow up around an obviously overpowered skill rather than be proactive about the issue, they set the stage for the exodus (her words) when they resolve the issue.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

11 Sep 2009 at 15:08 - 263

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

It illustrates the huge range of skills which Shadow Form bypasses. I'd argue that instead of areas being badly designed, it's Shadow Form which is badly designed.

But the POINT of the current SF is to be badly designed (=obscenely overpowered).
That's why it doesn't make sense to even bring PvP near it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

SF - first question in the video. Just more of an FYI to see what Linsey said about it:

http://www.youtube.com/user/arenanet...11/-3ScVRiFm3A

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=116
Ahh yes, it seems I will giggle!

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

11 Sep 2009 at 15:31 - 264

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

But the POINT of the current SF is to be badly designed (=obscenely overpowered).
That's why it doesn't make sense to even bring PvP near it.

What do you mean? If the current Shadow Form is obscenely overpowered / badly designed, then all the more reason to fix it right?

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

11 Sep 2009 at 15:51 - 265

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

What do you mean? If the current Shadow Form is obscenely overpowered / badly designed, then all the more reason to fix it right?

The problem is that this bad design isn't an error.
It's intentional.
Or better yet, they are willing to overlook this bad design because they are following different goals.

Bitoku Kishi

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

Serenity of the Night [Moon]

W/Mo

11 Sep 2009 at 18:48 - 266

Whether or not they intend to really change it, I think the best way to nerf SF (which badly needs a nerf), would actually involve a fairly simple change, that I feel would be a very effective way towards stopping the problems associated with it in the PvE game.

Here's how the skill reads now:
Energy Cost = 10
Casting Time = 1
Recharge Time = 45
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss, but you deal 33% less damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health.

Here's how I think it should be to fix it's problems:
Energy Cost = 10
Casting Time = 1
Recharge Time = 30
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss, but you deal 33% less damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health. You cannot activate Shadow Form while enchanted with Shadow Form.

What do you all think?

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

11 Sep 2009 at 20:18 - 267

There isn't ANYTHING wrong with Shadow Form. Touch skills will damage someone using it. Signets will damage someone using it. Non targeted skills will damage someone using it. Wells and Traps will damage someone using it. The problem is that those sources of damage are not common in PvE, at least not in the areas being abused by SF farming. And since you can maintain SF permanently, you have nothing to fear. Remove the permanent upkeep and those areas are no longer farmable, or at least not at the same speed. Stopping the farm long enough to let SF recharge will make a lot of people stop using it. Making sure your build will keep you alive to reach a spot to let SF recharge will stop a lot of people from using it.

SF isn't a problem. Perma is. I don't even see a problem with UW. It can be done by a balanced team in HM (I know, cause I've done it). It can't be done fast, or 'easy', but it can be done. The problem would be if it couldn't be done, or if it could be done too fast/easy.

You can use SF in PvP, but you can't make it perma. If they found a way to do that for PvE it would fix 90% of the problems SF has caused.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

11 Sep 2009 at 20:38 - 268

Quote:

Originally Posted by KZaske

I whole heartedly disagree. SF (Shadow Form) is the problem. The various areas themselves don't really have a problem as almost any well balanced team, properly played, can clear almost any area. Shadow form has allowed a single profession to rule almost the entire game with a skill set based on a single skill.
On the other side of this mess Shadow Form has allowed assassins be be welcomed into every team for almost anything & everything. Prior to Shadow Form Assassins were the least played of all the professions, even mesmers had more play time. Depending on how they go about "adjusting" Shadow Form, we may see Assassins become a playable PvE profession or we may see them become mules but I really doubt they will still be the farming Kings or Queens they are today.
As for your second point, "In order to truly fix farming, ANet has..." Who said they want to "Fix farming?" What they really want to see is team play, at least that is the impression I got from the live team Q&A at PAX.

As I see it, ANet's only real fault is in taking so long in fixing Shadow Form.

I wouldn't say they would be mules mostly just doing AB as they are good at that.

To MagmaRed It is the skill as any Sin can do about anything in pve farm,run (solo)and in normal game play.They are the most used solo class in the game as no one can solo The Realm of Torrment unlike the Sin.

Reformed

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2009

11 Sep 2009 at 21:02 - 269

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

They are the most used solo class in the game as no one can solo The Realm of Torrment unlike the Sin.

I think you mean Domain of Anguish...and 600/famine/smite is almost entirely responsible for the foundry rush. Back when they were over 100k each and it meant something. No other setup even comes close.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

11 Sep 2009 at 21:06 - 270

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

I think you mean Domain of Anguish...and 600/famine/smite is almost entirely responsible for the foundry rush. Back when they were over 100k each and it meant something. No other setup even comes close.

No.I am talking about where you get the elemental staff from and Sins are the only class that can get it.

ArlanKels

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2009

11 Sep 2009 at 22:36 - 271

The problem isn't with Shadowform, it's with the maps.
Put in "speedbumps", things that are solid visible threats to the speed runners. A group of nasty buggerboos packing anti-shadowform skills, which are grouped with things meant to target 600s on top of that.

That would most likely fix it, eh?

sleepybidder

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2009

11 Sep 2009 at 23:25 - 272

i dont think nerfing shadowform will change solo farming, not at least when 600 is active. At least people still do sc with 8 people due to the fact that every sin is useful for clearing, if shadowform is nerfed, will we see 8 players playing with a 600? everyone will be off to make a 600 to farm stuff, and anything more then 3 people in 600 smite dungeons are useless. so whats next? 3 people with 5 leechers doing sc in DOAs or other dungeons?

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

12 Sep 2009 at 00:43 - 273

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Just confirms everything that I've ever said about how the influence of ANet's marketing department corrupted the game. The second that you stop maximizing the quality of the game to pander to a certain segment of that audience, your game is doomed.

ANet painted themselves into a corner on this one, just as they did with Ursan. By permitting a community to grow up around an obviously overpowered skill rather than be proactive about the issue, they set the stage for the exodus (her words) when they resolve the issue.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The problem is that this bad design isn't an error.
It's intentional.

Which is even more stupid and hilarious. Its time people realize that there has been MUCH more of an exodus over Anet doing stupid crap like this (inbalancing their game) rather than an exodus over required nerfs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlenKels

The problem isn't with Shadowform, it's with the maps.

I've been thinking about this theory Bryant and some others have come up with that "it is the design of the areas fault". The more I think about it the more stupid I think it is really. That is like saying you could introduce one inbalanced fighter into a fighting game and that makes the entire game inbalanced. No...it just means that fighter is.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Sep 2009 at 04:43 - 274

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I've been thinking about this theory Bryant and some others have come up with that "it is the design of the areas fault". The more I think about it the more stupid I think it is really. That is like saying you could introduce one inbalanced fighter into a fighting game and that makes the entire game inbalanced. No...it just means that fighter is.

Here's why you're insanely difficult to talk to, Dreamwind.

Not only are you completely misinterpreting what I'm saying, you're being unnecessarily rude about it. What gives?

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

12 Sep 2009 at 05:17 - 275

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Here's why you're insanely difficult to talk to, Dreamwind.

Not only are you completely misinterpreting what I'm saying, you're being unnecessarily rude about it. What gives?

Sorry if I came off that way. I didn't mean to.

Let me get this straight. Basically you are saying the mobs have issues. Ok I can agree with that. But they have always had issues. That has nothing to do with SF being ridiculous though.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Sep 2009 at 06:06 - 276

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Sorry if I came off that way. I didn't mean to.

Let me get this straight. Basically you are saying the mobs have issues. Ok I can agree with that. But they have always had issues. That has nothing to do with SF being ridiculous though.

That's what I haven't been saying.

What I have been saying is that nothing's really going to change with SF nerfed given the rest of the game, given all the other methods of farming. The only reason they are nerfing it is because everyone's crying about it.

The game's not going to be "massively broken", it's going to be "pretty broken", and that's still not something you'd want to write home about.

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

12 Sep 2009 at 06:35 - 277

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

That's what I haven't been saying.

What I have been saying is that nothing's really going to change with SF nerfed given the rest of the game, given all the other methods of farming. The only reason they are nerfing it is because everyone's crying about it.

The game's not going to be "massively broken", it's going to be "pretty broken", and that's still not something you'd want to write home about.

Theres a big difference between something that is good and something that clearly broken. I wouldn't expect Anet to immediately nerf something good. If something is clearly broken, it should be immediately killed regardless of all the other factors.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Sep 2009 at 06:37 - 278

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Theres a big difference between something that is good and something that clearly broken. I wouldn't expect Anet to immediately nerf something good. If something is clearly broken, it should be immediately killed regardless of all the other factors.

Soloing areas isn't broken?

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

12 Sep 2009 at 08:08 - 279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Soloing areas isn't broken?

Yes it is.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Sep 2009 at 08:42 - 280

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Yes it is.

Then let's go back a bit. Ever wonder why you're the only person I have to repeat and fully explain myself to?:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant

In order to fix SF, the team could've gone through two routes:

1. Nerf SF directly, or
2. Fix the areas SF sees the most use, effectively making it less farmable AS A WHOLE via other professions/etc. and allowing ANet to better deal with farming in the future.

Obviously it's a lot easier to just fix one thing as opposed to multiple (in this case, the "multiple problems" refer to current, past and future farming methods of the area), but the disadvantage in that is that the areas are still borked up.

We're only delaying problems, not fixing them, when we don't remedy the opposition the players face.

And wow, already this thread looks like shit...Sorry, guys!