XTH has become an epic fail

people buy accounts just for this purpose thats why.

i say bring it back and make zkeys untradeable. i want my zkeys so i can work on my ztitle and maybe get something good from the zchest.

XTH still gone? Heh, good riddance.

I object to the title of this thread. XTH has BECOME an epic fail? It was an epic fail the moment the idea popped into someone's head.

Are you aware that stuff you unlock on a pvp character cannot be sold?

Didnt read it all so if its already been asked/answered ignore me

All the people that want an item form a group. And all these people are competing against eachother to obtain a certain rare item.
Giving people the ability to craft items (which being able to create red items is) means that more people can now obtain items of a certain skin despite the game still offering the same amount of PvE items.
Certain people that would otherwise compete with other buyers are now able to bypass the supply.
This also means that a bigger number of items of said skin is now in the game. And if the value of the item is also defined by it's rarity - this HAS ot decrease it's value!

When it comes to armours - one would need to reach a certain location to craft that armour. By offering a second location to obtain this item - you take away some of the exclusivity of that item. Previously you could ONLY obtain it in one certain way, now there is an additional way added.
It's pretty much the same thing as FoW vs 1k sets. Since FoW sets exclude a certain number of people, they are more special.

And yes, I am fully aware that the value of these items was pretty much minimal BEFORE you could obtain them though PvP. Pretty much the ONLY value most of them had was in excluding PvP guys from obtaining them.
And now this is gone.
(Like I said, while I do not feel that this is a good enough reason to exclude PvP players from this content, IF the game is designed to keep certain players excluded (PvE players being excluded from the shiny zoo emotes), then so be it. Exclude PvP characters from this content.)

Yes, I am aware you can't REALLY be unique in this game.
But what I was going at was how the unique component of PvE used to be being pretty. Skins were PvE rewards.
Now, one doesn't need to PvE anymore to be pretty. One can just obtain these rewards though PvP.
But if you want the zoo, you still need to do PvP!
And this is how the PvE reward system was trashed.
And the PvP one wasn't.

The same way we could say that armour and weapon skins were a PvE reward.
So using your logic, providing access to people that do not do PvE trashed them. So, on a principle level - if handing out reward points to people that do not earn them is bad for the game THEN PvP skins ARE bad for the game.
(Keep in mind that the rewards weren't handed out for doing absolutely nothing. The rewards were better if one got lucky, which is how a lot of rewards are handed out in this game OR if one wasted some time and tried to figure out who has the best chances of doing well.)


Regarding the influx of gold - this pretty much only influences the ultra high end market. But that market by definition is designed to exclude the majority of players and it still retains this function. The only thing that might change is WHO is excluded. It still excludes people that aren't the richest people in the game, just that Person A might now be excluded when previously Person B was excluded. And that doesn't matter.
Armours still cost 1k, so do capture siggies.
Massive overfarming caused items prices to plummet and even the influx of money isn't able to negate that.
This would influence the value of certain PvE rewards, had their only value not be, as I have said, in preventing PvP players from obtaining them. Most players do not give a shit when someone walks by in a FoW set wit chaos gloves, which showcases the minimal value of said rewards.


And at the same time, we need to remember that certain goals in this game are not in touch with playing the game. They are in touch with farming the game. So, this free money keeps the game from changing into a farming game because it allows players to obtain farming goals while still playing the game.
And yes, I am aware that removing farming goals would be the better solution.

Yes you can get the pve items from pvp now, but you can only use them in PvP.
So if you want them for Pve you still have to get them in Pve
This is just for Pvp Characters Who dont want to pve to look good.

so you argument that it will de-value said items for pve is kind of pointless.

T'was prolly greedy multiple a/c owners that ruined it, at least now we have Nick tho, how can they ruin that for us? I'm sure they will given enough time :P

The XTH was a nice, Ch'Ching every month & was kinda something to look forward to :|

The removal makes the Zaishen title only accessible to farmers and no doubt will increase the amount of perma's in game, so it's a fail/fail situation

Of course, and that is the main reason why the XTH is a joke: just because I used to be a PvPer, it doesn't mean I overlook PvE issues. Have you seen me whine "WAAAAAH PVERS HAVE MY STUFFS" anywhere in this thread? Again, my pet peeve is that Tournament (bolded this time, in case the underline went unnoticed) Reward Points are given out for free, it'd make much more sense if they awarded stacks of ectos.
Which isn't viable because there's no way ANet is going to design double the sets of items to avoid whimpering from part of their playerbase.


^ THIS

To completely blow it out of proportion - if FoW sets were the starter PvP sets, would that decrease their value in PvE?
If there is a bigger supply of items (an being able to craft items does that), that means they are less rare. And if the rarity of an item keeps it's value high, increasing the supply will cause a lower value.

Plus keep in mind that PvP has an Observer mode while PvE doesn't.
Which means that items one uses in PvE are pretty much only seen by the owner and heroes/hench, while the items that are used in PvP are seen by a much bigger crowd!

Yeah, because Observer mode definitely has a TON of people watching games nowadays!

...wait.

If there is ONE guy observing PvP, that's one guy more than how many guys can observe PvE.
And as you are quick to point out, it's the principle.

Because there are no PvE outposts, there's a chat lobby like in Diablo and everyone enters instances singularly. Have no fear though: word on the street says ANet is going to implement a PvE-cam on the top left corner of the screen for HA and GvG matches, so while PvPers compete they can also observe the PvE hero of their choice whirling his Fellblade in the midst of a Raptor orgy, caring very much in the process.


P.S. Somebody stop me, I feel like I'm losing brain cells here.

There are PvE outposts.
There are PvP outposts.
Both function on the same rules, for instance, no-one can see what weapons you are wielding in either places.

Once one enters a PvE area, the only people that see that character are the people in the party.
Once one enters certain PvP areas, the people that can see that character are the people in the party, the opposing team AND people in the observe mode.

That's why people plaster pictures of their PvE guys on forums.
Because otherwise nobody would see them.
If you want to be seen, you don't visit The Falls with hench in your party.


So yeah, I would say that adding PvP skins devalues PvE skins.

To see gvg or HA match you press 1 button. To see this above you need to go to youtube... I observe HA and GvG but I cannot see the DOA clear unless someone bothers to put in on youtube. You do not see it in game unless you are a part of it. I think you miss the concept of fairness. It is not discussion about what is useful or rational etc but what is fair. Even if you post the most ridiculous examples they are still proving Upiers point as the one above.

It is all about taking from the pve what is unique for it (skins, amors) and not sharing what is unique for pvp (skins, armors). That is how I see this thread.

What does it matter? It was just a very easy way for scammers to scam more easy money from the game without doing aything for it. I hope they never bring it back. If they do just bring it back for the picking purpose or add some cute emote rank for picking correctly but NO MONEY and NO PRIZES and NO LOOT of any kind. Players can have all the prestige vanity they want just leave the ECONOMY out of it.

So, like in the real world: JUST SAY NO TO XTH!! )

Good lord, look at all the waaaah in this thread. RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO's sake.

Ok, tl;dr version:
First part: trolling the ppl going baaaaaawww
Second part: merits/impacts of original xth setup

As a greedy, lazy, tard, carebear who doesn't deserve any rewards cause I didn't do anything to earn them, I say to you all /thbbpththbbt.

I'm greedy cause I bought a couple extra accts at 5 dollars each from amazon, which not only freed up some inventory space on my main acct's mules, but I also get some extra xth goodies (then) and extra nicolas stuff (now)? Seriously? How about you're a stingy dumbass for not taking advantage of those deals when they were available? Just like I'm a dumbass for not sinking all my money into google stock when their ipo became available, and all the ppl that did profit from their investment are greedy, so now I can be all mad at 'em? Ooookayyy. Money for nothing right?

Lazy, hmm, I guess I'm lazy for not putting in the hours upon hours focusing on all the stuff necessary to become successful at pvp and reaping some rewards of questionable value. I suppose I could also word that another way. I prefer to spend my free time doing things other than dwelling in mom's basement, immersing myself into a cesspool of antisocial ego-driven punks, and flailing around in a high drama and rage environment, for what rewards again? Oh, ok, noty, I'll pass. I've got other shit to do.

The tard-calling I'm presuming comes from being a bad player, cause I haven't bothered to break down the game into it's molecular components and I haven't committed to memory every skill animation or game mechanic or all that other stuff which doesn't really matter because I do just fine rolling my face on the keyboard and winning with moderate success. Actually, I'm just fine with facerolling, if the alternative is being that sunlight-deprived dickhead who's never seen a naked chick irl, and lacks the social skills required to make naked chicks happen irl, but who has a nifty tiger emote or rank x champ (no one cares but you, btw).

The carebear insult has always cracked me up. I guess it's supposed to be directed at pve'ers who generally don't want to interact with a bunch of testosterone-fueled, action-packed, aspiring pvp superstars, because presumably a pve'er is an emontionally fragile, delicate little flower, who bursts into tears at the slightest provocation and gets all butthurt about everything or some other such nonsense. In this tread, all I see are butthurt pvp'ers, crying about the unfairness of multiple acct owning pve players benefitting from all the hard work of others, and how all these undeserved rewards are destroying the game, and all sorts of other qq's and waaaaahhhhs. Isn't that kindof carebear-ish by definition?

/end troll

All that aside, I did actually pay more attention to the goings on in pvp while the xth was still active. I'd watch the semi-finals and finals on observer mode, kindof like how I'd watch the world series or other championship playoffs of sports I don't regularly follow closely, because those were fairly exciting matches to watch. I got a kick out of watching sabrewolf's re-cap/play-by-play of those matches, because it brought me closer to other things going on in a game that I enjoy.

I don't have to be a professional athlete to enjoy participating in a football pool or watching the games and talking about them afterwards w/some of my buddies. I can participate in the fun without participating physically on the field, and can participate in the rewards if the teams I picked perform well.

Even if I am not ever seriously going to play in any gvg's with any regularity, watching the matches on obs mode and seeing how my picks performed brought a bit of appreciation towards the side of the game that I don't indulge myself with. If anything, the xth combined with obs mode could/would expose people, who otherwise normally don't pay any attention to that scene, to the perspective that drives how skill changes come about, whether it's witnessing an abused mechanic or broken skill or fotm meta or whatever. I'll concede that most ppl likely could give two shits beyond their free loots, but hey, anet's gotta take it where it can get it when it comes to bridging the great divide between the two communities.

And as far as the rewards go, I hear a lot of ppl bitching about ppl earning free money and multiple accts and what-have-you. Well, the incentive to participate has to be large enough to draw continued attention. For example, the z-quests, I did them for a little bit, got a couple 15 slot bags, and said 'screw it, I'm done messing around with getting these bags'. Or the freebie chests in elona, once I started getting purple crap, I lost interest. I still do the nick stuff on my accts, cause I can give all my sweet/party/booze to my guildies who haven't maxed those titles yet. If the nick gifts had degraded over time, that would have lost my interest as well.

If the xth comes back, and the rewards aren't there, or aren't worth me investing time towards messing about with making predictions and such, I'll likely not participate further. No love lost, I'll just focus my attention elsewhere. Now, if anet feels that my discontinued quasi-interest in gvg (from a spectator's perspective), if that is a loss that is greater than, let's say, the pissed off person getting their underpants in a twist and rage quitting cause I'm earning undeserved rewards on my multiple accts, well, I guess that's for anet to quantify and take into consideration, when it comes to weighing the concerns of their customers.

Bring back the xth with predictions made in-game. Then make zkeys customised to the account, so they can't be traded.....then introduce zlockpicks which have (potentially) multiple uses and can be traded and can only be gained by balthazar faction.

Multiple account owners won't have the perceived unfair financial advantage of having more zkeys to sell....if they want to sell stuff then it will have to be the items dropped from the chest, or they'll have to do some PvP for the zlockpicks. Those players going for the zaishen title can still do the xth, but can also do some PvP for the advantages of the zlockpicks.

No it would not make sense to award stacks of ectos as XTH reward because XTH is PvP centric by nature. Awarding Balthazar's Faction or TRP (maybe they need to tone that down for XTH to be fair with other aspects of PvP), is right.

But allowing people to trade in your Balthazar's Faction/TRP for a zkey PvE reward is just wrong! PvP achievements should be rewarded with PvP exclusive rewards only, and NOT transferrable to be PvE rewards.

Balthazar faction is a form of PvP reward and should not be tied in to PvE, so it will only work if zlockpicks gives items EXCLUSIVELY for PvP characters only and not affect PvE economy. Otherwise there will be even more whinning about fairness.

The original purpose of Balthazar Faction was to provide unlocks for PvP-only characters. That was correct all along. Then someone in ANet decides to start a PvP-PvE war by tying Balthazar Faction with Zkeys. That should stop right now! ZKeys should only be awarded for elite PvE achievements, NOT through Balthazar's Faction or TRP since they affect PvE economy.

A cross-PvP/PvE reward like that, causes people to compare PvP achievements to PvE achievements and flaming results. Breaking the knot between B. Factions/TRP and Zkeys also fixes the multiple account issue automatically because B. Factions/TRP and PvP characters are account specific.

I'm just not getting the passion on either side of this. Maybe reading these posts is causing me to lose brain cells too, but allow me to offer a differnt viewpoint: I don't care what anyone else does, crafts, wears, wields, observes, buys, trades, gets, or doesn't get in GW. Some of you admit you don't even play anymore, yet here you howl your rage. w/e

The only good cross PvP/PvE reward is and should be the HoH chest.

I'm starting to this that RR day was meant to replace the XTH

But apparently, they hate it too.

You know what's exclusive about PvE?

Getting to PvE.

September 2, 2009 5:08:32 AM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 3, 2009 9:15:24 AM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 4, 2009 8:19:58 PM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 5, 2009 1:08:44 AM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 6, 2009 12:57:09 PM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 7, 2009 3:30:19 AM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 8, 2009 5:08:32 AM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 9, 2009 9:15:24 AM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 9, 2009 8:19:58 PM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 10, 2009 1:08:44 AM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 11, 2009 12:57:09 PM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 12, 2009 3:30:19 AM:
We are stress
... Oh wait ... What's that? ... Ah, it didn't - OK. Nevermind ...
testing the XTH
September 13, 2009 5:08:32 AM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 14, 2009 9:15:24 AM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 15, 2009 8:19:58 PM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 16, 2009 1:08:44 AM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 17, 2009 12:57:09 PM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 18, 2009 3:30:19 AM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 19, 2009 5:08:32 AM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 20, 2009 9:15:24 AM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 21, 2009 8:19:58 PM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 22, 2009 1:08:44 AM:
We are stress testing the XTH
September 22, 2009 12:57:09 PM:
We are stress testing the XTH

Despite being in the instant gratification information age, not all news is worth reporting - or knowing. If there were anything significant to tell us about the XTH, they would.

(I'm not picking on anyone in particular, but simply point out the fact that we don't actually need a continual play by play of what Anet is doing behind the scenes.

Hanok Odbrook

We have no evidence that they've done ANYTHING to the XTH and my guess would be that they haven't done anything.

It's been like 8 months since it went down. That's a long time to basically tell us "we're working on it".

But what if they are "working on it?" What else is there to tell us? Would you really understand what it means if they started posted up complex stuff having to do with what they did with coding today?

No, and I'm not suggesting that they do.

I'm just suggesting that it CAN'T take 8 months to fix the bugs in that system....and if it actually did, then say "Sorry guys, but this is messed up and going to take 8 months to fix" and kill the thing already. And the PR has been terrible on this. Surely, they're not this stupid? Right?



.......


Right?

quite possibly the most intelligent post in the whole thread...

Here's is what we've learnt in 8 months, via Linsey's massive August devnotes (it's just not simply "we're working on it"):

>_<

And why?

Basically, over 8 months, we've learned that they have the appropriate number of points for everyone........whoopie! How did that take more than the normal amount of time? Oh, yea.....because they changed the system.....good idea.


"And why?"

Because they should have looked at it and said, "Hmm, this is a mess....this will probably take months", then they should have scrapped the whole thing and not wasted "valuable" resources to jerk us around.

You misread her statement: she also said that in 6 months (devnote was in August) they've identified what's likely to be "the" bug causing the problems, created a fix for it, and planned internal testing and external delivery of the fix.

I'm beginning to wonder whether this discussion is going in the direction of someone explaining how all this doesn't require more than "X man-days to update colum Y of the database".

Your logic is flawed because you consider XTH worthless. If Anet created it, they believe there's a value to it. Ofc problems greatly dimished this value.

XTH was a bad idea to begin with. I'm glad that it is down and if it was up to me it would never be restored.

It's not up to you, thanks God for that!
I liked XTH it got me interested in GvG well, not playing it but looking at it and starting to know the Guilds and how they played.
Opening the chests always was something that gave me hope ...... to get a nice item, even if I never did it was fun, fun, fun!

I hope XTH will be back ....soon!

Your logic is flawed because it is based on the assumption that anything Anet believes has value is good for the game. I think there are many things Anet thinks has value to them but is actually terrible for the game. (on a side note...im not sure why this opinion is worhty of delete).

XTH is fine, zkeys for B. factions/TRP on the other hand, is a flawed idea and should be removed.

I went ahead and fixed your post for you.

To those who argue that they were more involved in caring about PvP when XTH was active: why should Anet pay you to care?

...because it will keep people playing GW instead of leaving for another game and ideally increase the likelihood of those people buying GW2.

If people lose all interest in GW and start a new game, the chance of them returning to buy GW2 diminishes. Maybe they find a game that they prefer - one that they'd never experience if they continued to be absorbed in GW.

Then they should be paying people to actually play PvP, not paying people to pretend to care about PvP and then continue playing PvE.

They could, if they only wanted to keep the pvp'ers. XTH provided a potential benefit for everybody, regardless of which side of the pvp/pve fence they were on.

Bottom line, XTH kept some people interested in, and playing, the game. The pvp/pve fence is probably pretty irrelevant from ANet's perspective - we're all wallets that they want a piece of when GW2 comes out, so they've got a need to do what they can to keep us interested in, and playing, the game.

I know people who would not play GW at all, but would come in once every month to make and pick up their XTH picks.

By "keep playing" do you mean, occasionally still log in? Otherwise, how is the XTH a motivation to do anything? It takes all of 30 minutes, once every month, to make picks and get your rewards.