Shadow Form meets the end

Leech Signet.

Simple. There are plenty of mesmer monsters in the world, especially in the UW's Plains. This solves the problem two fold by shutting down SF and at the same time NOT creating added difficulty for balanced groups as it would replace a skill like Power Drain.

The problem with this argument is that the amount of vitriol directed SF's way by this forum could be considered a de facto poll by ANet, if they're idiots.

Could someone please explain to me the difference between an OB Flesh Ele who can solo farm/tank just as well if not better, and the Permasin?

Could it be that the reason people hate Permas is because until EoTN came out, Sins were relegated to the realm of myth, as they were never seen in groups or PUGs, and now they've eclipsed every other build out there for farming/tanking?

Again, I say its just the people used to preferential treatment are QQing because for once they're not getting their way. Truly sad and childish really.

If ANet wants to be fair and balanced, if they nerf SF because its too powerful, than every other power-farming build, such as 600/Smite also needs to be nerfed, otherwise they prove they're just pandering to the village idiots.

I never recall saying that other solo builds shouldn't be nerfed.

SF is just the most prominent atm

Its because its impossible to "play the game for fun" when 99% of RPG players play the game for loot. That's the reality. Because Anet didn't make the reward scale balanced....(everything below end game = crap, regardless of difficulty) everyone gets concentrated into one area. Meanwhile...people like me that actually want to play the game for fun get inadvertently affected because....there's no one to play with at all in areas that isn't the current "gimmick farm". Even if I wanted to do DoA for fun right now, its impossible without guild help because the entire area is a ghost town. I don't want UW to suffer the same fate.

If they don't fix this problem, people will just keep on jumping from one area to the next, until everyone goes solo farming and the entire game is devoid of grouping.

You may understand the distinction, but the rest of these people don't seem to, and if ANet's past of heavy handed skill balancing is any indication, they don't get it either.

The point I'm trying to make is that its silly hypocrisy to cry over one skill but to ignore the others that provide the same function.

In a sense, all the SF haters are saying, "its ok to play and farm, just as long as you do it the same way I do." They don't like SF because it marginalizes the 55 and 600 Monk builds, OB Flesh Ele and War tanks, and others they've been using since Prophecies.

It is not FAIR to allow other classes to have farming builds that are easy to run and not allow the Assassin the same courtesy. Its hypocritical and just plain stupid. While farming is optional, its also an expected part of the end game, if ANet is dumb and follows the village idiot way of thinking, they'll nerf SF and leave all the other farming skills intact.

Or they could simply add Chillblains to monster skill bars and make it impossible for any enchant dependent build. All I'm saying is if you're going to nerf SF because its use as a farming tool, then ALL farming skills should receive the same treatment.

Chilblains won't do much >_>

As for the rest of the farming builds...I haven't cared about a lot of them. I mean, who cares if someone can farm a mid-game place and get gold? Like Vermin farming...it devalues anything Vermin drop, but it has no value anyway. Same with the 55 farming the griffons. It does throw off the economy, but again, I've not really cared about the economy either (I never farm, all of my gold is from finishing the game, and doing dungeons for fun).

However, I've always disliked builds that could farm and make a joke of the "elite" places, the places where it's supposed to take a decent group to get through. It would be the same as like, a Paladin soloing some level 80 raid in WoW...it's just retarded.

Hell, on that same note, I hate how most places devolve into people running the same group composition to maximize clear speed. It just seems like nobody plays for fun. BYOB HM Dungeons can be a blast with guildies...even if the builds are terrible. But, I guess that is another argument, and a foundational flaw with PvE in GW.

It is quite simple why I want to farm elite areas really, because it is there. Farming builds are there for the purpose of accomplishing that task on my own, and it is quite fun. As a particularly casual gamer with a career and a family I don't have the time to invest into seeking out balanced teams for two hours to spend another 2 hours clearing an area when the process only takes 30 minutes with my perma sin. You see, basement dwelling leetheads have such an advantage already.

I am bemused by the "me too" attitude you attributed to my position. That is absolutely beside the point and reflects exactly the kind of snobbery that I detest about leetists. There is no "me too" or, at least, there shouldn't be; high end items, elite areas and, so on are available to anyone with the appropriate campaign or expansion. We are all equal in the opportunity and indeed the EULA. So this "me too" that you speak of suggests otherwise, that these pleasures are only reserved for a select few and the others ought to know their place. Rather Orwellian isn't it? What with some people being more equal than others and all. That is akin to saying that the game design rewards grinders while flash farmers like the perma sin are not welcomed. Quite a stark contradiction to your general theory that it is all just for fun, which I tend to agree with. But I digress, 18 hours at the computer and high on soda pop is not fun for me and probably not most casual gamers either.

Make no mistake, I am upset, I am only voicing my opinion because this is the last straw for me, and I intended to reflect my anger in the previous post. Furthermore I do not apologize for anything I said, no matter how snide it may have seemed. I like gaming and I enjoy GW but recently the GW community is not the far cry from the demands of everyday life that people look for in MMOs. On the contrary, it is rife with politics, social stratification, snobbery and the sort of selfish, deluded, condescending, bellends that most of us try to escape. The sort that ruins things for everyone and pat themselves on the back for a job well done, only to later wax lyrically about the good ole days in proper nostalgic refrains.

Guild Wars.
Multi-player game.
srsly.

Leaving the entire game empty to justify their initial "principle" made 4 years ago is pretty stupid in terms of business. And the whole "guild" wars name is just semantic...so you're saying that we should remove RA, Low end PvE, HA, etc.? The whole guild thing could have just meant "guild vs guild" pvp.

Also...

"The Elementalist commands the four elemental forces: earth, air, fire, and water. With magic derived from the very foundations of nature itself, Elementalists can inflict more damage in a single strike than any other profession."

*cough*Yeah Sure*cough*

i'm sure a single rodgort's invocation catching eight people is the most damage possible. that's well over 900 damage in fact, not counting burning damage.

you need to accept that casual players are not meant to play areas that are designed to be "hardcore" content. accept that, and you'll be all the happier. after all, not everyone gets to be a heart surgeon; nor does everyone get to win the mATs. it takes a certain amount of dedication to become good at something. even then, at the end of the day, you really aren't missing much. after all, does the end reward from playing these areas actually make your character statistically better? no, it doesn't. therefore, it's not like you are missing out on essential content.

you also claim that you dislike the mudslinging that comes with every online community, yet you come here and start slinging your own. you are exactly what you claim to hate. does that mean you hate yourself? if not, isn't that a little hypocritical?

"On the contrary, it is rife with politics, social stratification, snobbery and the sort of selfish, deluded, condescending, bellends that most of us try to escape. The sort that ruins things for everyone and pat themselves on the back for a job well done, only to later wax lyrically about the good ole days in proper nostalgic refrains."

that, and other useless things in your post does not contribute to your argument. it takes away from them. i suggest you refrain from posting until you can argue without resorting to such shallow and baseless attacks.

There are 10 professions in this game.

Only 1 of them is worth using.

How is this not a problem?

Shadow Form is not a farming build. 55 is a farming build. You can farm the hell out of certain areas, but if you try to use it in general PvE, you fall flat on your face. That's the nature of farming builds. This is fine.

Shadow Form is an invincibility build. It is, for practical purposes, godmode. This is not good. This destroys all purpose in playing the game. Why play, if there's no risk of failure? Why have the other 9 professions, if SF is always superior? Why even have the assassin, really? You might as well just have a single class called "The Shadowformer", and only one elite, since that's the only one that is worth using in the game.

This is not right. Therefore, SF should be nerfed.

This much is understandable. Even in WoW you're able to solo a raid boss or other encounters meant for a much larger group.

But ANet didn't maintain the game in this respect. As a result farming as now become a massively accepted form of gameplay.

I don't expect anyone to be able to fully stomp out farming, just like how you'll never encounter perfect balance. But that's where maintenance of such issues comes into light, and in this respect ANet has failed.

Of course they've fallen with numerous aspects of the game, largely in part to going full-force with GW2.

Really? You're comparing heart surgery to a video game? You sir have officially jumped the shark. If the end game is not essential content, and is instead designed to allow everyone to customize their character, then what harm is it in allowing everyone to do so? Its much worse to say we're going to ban casual players from high end content to allow "1337" players to look better and stroke their e-peens. This whole argument really is just about whether or not the casual gamer should have access to high end content. In a game like WoW, where the 1337 gamerz can acquire actual better gear in reward for their dedication, then I would argue no, a player who does not put in as much time should not be as well equipped as the hardcore.

But GW is not pay to play, no monthly access fees, and all "high end gear" is purely cosmetic. ANet could just make all armors free to players to choose from once they hit 20, and there would be zero effect on gameplay (i.e. partying up and slaying monsters), with the caveat that farming would actually go down, since people would not feel the need to farm for ectos and such. I say its a far better thing to encourage gameplay in Guilds and PvP and cooperative PvE, of course the flip side is the possibility that without grind, the game is meaningless and people leave. But WHAT kind of reasoning is it that grind is the only thing keeping players around? That's just insane.

His comments would only be shallow and baseless if they were not grounded in reality.

The simple fact is, there is a group of players who feel they're better than others and conversely deserve to be richly rewarded. A build comes along that challenges that supremacy, and they get all bent out of shape.

Its truly sad and pathetic.

Make titles decay over time, same as guild faction. 5%, 10%, whatever. So those who want prestige of displaying a maxed, high title, will have to work exceedingly hard to keep it up.

There are exceptions, of course - achievement based titles (the only GOOD titles in my opinion) like cartography, skill hunter, etc., will not decay, but grind based ones like EotN Rep, Hero, Drunkard, Treasure Hunter, etc - would all need to be regularly maintained. Probably the magnitudes of decay, and points required per rank, adjusted for each one individually.

Wow, for real? Have you heard of tank splits, speedclears, etc.? Thats the meta of PvE. SF is not godmode, I don't know why people keep saying this. Lag, various non-targeted AoE enchant removals, SIGNETS and more can keep SF in check.

God, you people are retarded. Try this. Ask yourself if Obsidian Flesh needs to be nerfed? An Ele can maintain perma OB Flesh with TWO skills, and use two more for damage reduction and SUPERIOR energy management when compared to the Sin. I easily farmed up plenty of glacial stones and destroyer cores with an OB Flesh Ele, so why are they not the devil too?

The simple reason is that they've been around longer, and did not have the stigma attached to them that Sins did. Also, the Permasin is very recent, so people think of it more acutely. If you nerf Permasin, then ALL the other builds that allow Perma invincibility, such as 600/Smite, OB Flesh and more also must be nerfed to preserve balance.

Heck, my Sin can use three bonders, take along four "riders" and kill the Great Destroyer in HM in about 30 seconds. Maybe ANet should nerf Heros, and bonding skills too?

The ultimate end point of this line of thought is that all freeform play is removed, and everyone has to play the way the elite crowd prefers, but without the elite advantages of massive guilds and such. I highly doubt that the SF Haters have joined many PUGs of late.

As to the idea of people rage quitting, I think its funny that if ANet leaves SF as is, and the 1337 crowd ragequit, its a MUCH smaller percentage of the GW playerbase than the normal, casual player, and would be much more fiscally responsible in getting people to come back for GW2. Small, hardcore fanbases do not allow games to survive, just look at the flightsim and spacesim market.

Why not ask the community if they want the interface changed to add a "WIN" button, that when pressed kills all foes in radar range and deposits the loot drops in your pack... I have a feeling that would be quite popular too, especially with the perma sin crowd.

His point was, that he didn't have one.

since when is supporting a cheat build considered "grounded in reality"? shadow form is godmode. in every other game out there, godmode is a cheat. therefore, shadow form is a cheat. since a cheat makes no sense in a multiplayer game, that cheat should be removed. i have no idea people can get pathetic enough to resort to using a cheat to play an otherwise easy game, but each to their own.

at the end of the day, some players really ARE better than others. they are better because they have a natural ability, and/or they have more dedication in improving themselves. such players DO deserve to be better rewarded. shadow form is not a build, it is a cheat. if a cheat comes along and make their skills irrelevant (and indeed, it makes the entire game irrelevant), i believe they have every right to get bent out of shape.

heart surgery is a learned ability, and is also something not everyone can do. playing video games, especially if played well, is a learned ability, and not everyone can do it. there's nothing wrong with that comparison in this regard. you are just grasping at straws. you can, of course, prove me wrong by winning the mAT this month, but you won't do it, because you don't have the ability.

if you are really a casual player, then you really shouldn't care if some players have better rewards. this is especially true in GW, where it's almost impossible to get a statistical advantage over other players.

I remember doing Dzagonur Bastion in HM with some guildies.

We had a permasin tank 2 portals, while the rest of the team killed the others, then went over to help clean up.

That's how ridiculous it is.

I remembered doing Dzagonur Bastion in HM with pugs.

Failed over 20 times with no fault of my own. The reward? 1.2k for all my persistent effort.

That's how ridiculous it is.
The game is not balanced around pugs. ANET should have been more insightful and ASSUMED that every group would fail over 20 times in that mission and based the reward on that, instead of making it exactly the same as the reward in Vizunah Squares.

Same thing with dungeons....why do I get the same crap in Catacombs of Kathandrax as what I get in Bogroot growth? ANET should have assumed that pugs would fail at least 40 times in kathandrax and upped the reward at by at least half that amount.

Same with the end game areas.

Instead of designing the game that actually reward group play and persistent effort by PUG players, they designed it to only reward perfect guilds/friend groups, and leave the other 99% of the players with crutches that are now going to be taken away without fixing the core problem itself.

!) PUGS completing end game areas with balanced build should have reward >>>>>> than solo farming and Z questing and everything else. But right now its only the case for "pro" guilds.

2) PUGS completing EOTN dungeons with balanced build should have reward >>>>>> than solo farming and Z questing. HARD dungeons should have more reward than the easy ones. This is NOT the case currently.

3) PUGS completing Dzagonur Bastion should get far more than pugs completing Vizunah Squares. Pugs completing the realm of torment missions should get far more than pugs completing Dzagonur Bastion.

If pugs cannot do DoA, they should be able to do UW repeatedly and get the same with maybe 5% more time invested. If pugs cannot do UW, they should be able to do EoTN dungeons repeatedly and get the same with 10% more time invested. If Pugs cannot do the EoTN dungeons, they should be able to do the Realm of Torment dungeon and get the same with 15% more time invested. etc. etc.

This type of linear progression is what encourages people to actually learn the game. Whereas right now if you want to finish the title before guild wars 3 comes out, you MUST solo farm or gimmick team farm, or you MUST have a guild to do end game area.

Your argument fails here, because of your continued insistence at it being a cheat and godmode. Wrong.

Fail. Not a cheat, I can put it on my bar without violating the EULA. Also, how much skill does it take to press 1-8?

Anyone can play Guild Wars, unless they're paraplegic or mentally deficient, and even they can roll their foreheads and play Wammos effectively. Winning the mAT is a facetious issue, since SF can't be maintained in mAT now can it? Talk about grasping at straws.

And those same players should not begrudge the casual players the desire to dress up their characters, it is only a game after all, right?

@Zahr, exactly how many spacesims has Bioware come out with. Mass Effect is a RPG, so you probably got confused, easy to understand its an awesome game. And to my knowledge they've never developed a flight sim, so your arguments are invalid as well.

Also, I just logged in, no changes to SF, Deadly Paradox or Glyph of Swiftness. Looks like the whiny baby crowd for once did not get its way...

how is shadow form not a cheat? it makes you invincible in almost every instance in the game, negating most of the game design in the process. that's the very definition of a cheat. it's the same thing as typing TGM in oblivion/fallout 3. that command is within the EULA, but it's still a cheat.

and really, if GW is as simple as pressing 1-8, then by all means win the mAT. after all, it's just pressing 1-8 now is it? until you actually manage to do so, your argument is false.

lastly, if you really want to play dressup, you don't need SF to achieve it, nor do you need to play any of the elite areas. so taking away SF won't stop you from playing dressup. there goes your argument.

you know, i really don't give a rat's ass what you think tbh. you are not a casual player, you are a BAD player who cannot play without a crutch. if anet keeps their word, you'll soon be a BAD player without a crutch. bad players fail, whether they are hardcore or casual. removing SF will make the likes of you continue to fail, just like you are supposed to. if you are not a bad player and actually CAN play without using SF as a crutch, then you shouldn't have any issue with it being nerfed.

I've bolded that bit because, even though I rarely weigh in on such things as this, that statement is one of the most baldly-faced elitist comments I've ever heard.

Listen carefully.

No one-absolutely No one, is supposed to fail. As many people have said over all the pages of this thread, in PVE we don't always want to face time-consuming, difficult challenges. Sometimes we just want to have fun...

I know...horrific, ain't it? Folks playing GW just to have fun; whatever is the world coming to?

Sometimes, succeeding at a hair-raising challenge can be fun. But, other times, after a hard day's work, being abused by customers,the boss, or various and sundry things in the workday world, you just want to pwn hapless monsters.

The thi9ng I love about this game, the thing that the elitists are threatening, is that there is room for both modes, for relaxing monster slaying, and super difficult and dangerous stuff too; and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Relax. Chill. Let everyone play the game they want to play.

there are certain areas that not everyone is meant to succeed in. it's the way it is. if you really don't have the ability to play those areas, then i RESPECTFULLY suggest you not to play them. using a gamebreakingly powerful build, which should not exist in the first place to circumvent that isn't the issue.

i'll repeat this one more time (and hopefully the last time): not everyone is supposed to succeed in elite areas. these areas are designed for the most dedicated and hardcore players, to get MARGINALLY better rewards. you are NOT MISSING ANYTHING by not playing them. the game does not owe you the right to play those areas, just because you've paid $40 X number of campaigns/expansion. if you truly just want to hang back and kill monsters, then play the other ~96% of the game, and leave the parts you can't handle to the people who can.

relax. chill. let everyone play the parts of the game they have the ability to.

Its a skill. In the game. If you classify it as a cheat, then every other Elite skill is also a cheat.

Somebody pee in your milk? So what you're saying is, is that ANet programmed their game to make certain a percentage of the paying playerbase cannot succeed? That seems like a horrible business model, and I'm sure that ANet did not intend that, its just elitist jerks like yourself that believe that to be the case. I'malso not a bad player, winning mAT does not indicate skill in PvE 'tard. I shy away from PvP because I like a relaxing gameplay experience that isn't full of teabagging buttheads.

I want to play my Sin in Elite areas with other players. No one will take a Moebius-DB sin, Palm Strike build, or any of the bazillion other combos. They want Perma-SF, just like a Warrior tank in DoA is expected to be a OB Flesh build, and not a 100 Blades Wammo.

Think before typing, it could help you out. On a side note, I just ran my bro on my PERMASIN, so apparently ANet does not agree with the whiny vocal minority.

We are going on 18 months of it's current, albeit slightly tweaked along the way, functionality. They knew exactly what this skill was capable of in concert with DP and GoS back during the mad rush of the first Planes Ectosin, IIRC sometime in May of 2008. They knew it was a "problem" within weeks and yet let it run all this time with just minor tweaks. Calling it a cheat is just outright hyperbole, everything has been done intentionally.

It's a skill that is clearly being used in a way in which it was never intended to be. It is an exploit. An abuse of the game's mechanics. A cheat.

Actually, Anet has publically stated that SF is being abused.

Also, yes, every game with a difficulty level setting is designed so that not all players will be able to succeed. That's what Hard Mode is. It is a challenge designed for the more skilled players. Easy and Normal modes are for the casual players who want an easy time.

High end teams won't take MSDB because SF is always better, and they believe that you'd have to be an idiot to not run it. And they're half right; you have to either run SF or intentionally gimp yourself. To be honest, I'm surprised any high-end teams let anything except SF sins in, because there's really no reason to ever play a warrior or whatever when you could just be a SF sin.

But anyway, if you truly believe that SF is ok for the game, that it's ok for players to have what for practical purposes amounts of invincibility, then go to Sardelac and suggest that every profession be allowed to maintain it. After all, if it's ok for assassins, it should be ok for everyone, right?

And while you're at it, if you think players are entitled to win simply because they played (without putting forth effort or skill), then go suggest players be given access to BAMPH.

Until you've done these two things, your argument contradicts your actions, and I will be forced to dismiss it as hypocrisy.

Its a fault of the game for not flexible in catering to its majority audience. And because of that it also drags the intermediate players (people who actually like to pug when they're not playing with guilds/friends) like me down with it, because if the majority don't do a particular area because of the design, I am also left with no one to play with.

Also, part of the reason the majority of the player base is "stupid" is that there's no incentive to play smart when every non-end game areas have exactly the same reward attached. If Vizunah Squares, have the exact same reward as a realm of torment mission....do you think people are going to try to actually learn to do the harder mission effectively? NO!

Reducing the player base to guild + friends is NOT the solution.

Then don't use it! You want to call it god-mode? Fine, let's go with that. How on any level does it hurt your enjoyment of the game for another person to be playing it in "god-mode". This is all about elitism and e-peen. Every argument against is just a different way of saying "you're not allowed to get the stuff I got, faster than I got it, it's NOT FAIR!!!!"

You are trying one of the more difficult missions in the game on hard mode...you should just be able to grab a random group of subpar players and complete it? In WoW or other MMO's, can you just grab a random group of people with no real synergy, no communication, and take down one of the more difficult raid bosses? Maybe once in a blue moon.

As for your reasoning why the player base is stupid...maybe it's because of overpowered skills like SF? Why get better if you can do the entire game with a single character? Maybe it is to do with the fact that you can succeed at the normal game with terrible builds...like Mending Warriors. Maybe it is because people can succeed at most of the game by simply drooling on the keyboard.

No, that's the definition of poor design and adaption of the world on the part of the developers.

If the 90% of the monsters in GW relied on signets and touch skills and they created an elite skill that made a player invulnerable to those two types of skills, it still wouldn't be an overpowered skill by itself rather overpowered by the limitations of it's environment. Just as Shadow Form is overpowered due to the mob's skillbar rather than the Permasin's. It's a simple solution of buffing elite area mobs to combat it, just as they've done with almost every other major farming build over the years.

If it's a "cheat" or "godmode", by all means.. prove it by soloing the entire game with it. If not, do yourself and quit referring to it as such, it makes you look really, really out of touch. Hell, even with it's PvE incarnation it would get destroyed in PvP.

Nope....I should be able to grab a group of "sub par" players, fail 20 times before succeeding, and come out with more than 2k in my pocket. Preferably, every mission should have its own "very rare item" chest associated with it as well, giving people reason to actually do them again.

If the areas are worth failing over and over with pugs, then people would naturally keep trying. Already good people like guild groups and friend groups will just get icing on the cake.

This is what they should do ALONG with adjusting/nerfing whatever gimmicks that pops up.

^^^This is comedy gold.^^^ (Either that, or you're delusional.)

So instead of creating higher level areas for everyone to test their skills and enjoy. You're ascertaining that these areas were in fact created for a select few "Hardcore" players by ANET? So tell me exactly what denotes oneself as being "Hardcore"? Better yet. How does one prove the level of their true hardcoreness? Does ANET send you a diploma and a toaster? I'm pretty sure it's proven through their shiny little armors, weapons, and e-wealth. Which loses it's luster when casual players can get at it with some "Power Gaming". Which further proves that if casual players aren't missing much, then why the need for all these shiny pretty trinkets the majority of you Leet players flaunt around? I mean if it's all about just having the satisfaction of beating the game straight up. Then surly there is no need for e-wealth and all it affords, am I right?

I'm not sure whether it's astonishing or just downright pathetic, just how much stock players put into their video game experiences. If I ever get to a point where I'm calling myself a "hardcore gamer". I'm going to tell my wife and kids to leave me. I'll quit my gratifying and well paying job as a firefighter. And I'm going to find a nice secluded corner somewhere and end myself before my leetness becomes too much a burden. Then again, virtual reality is about the only place where some people can be successful. So I can see defending the only thing you have in your lives?

It's an effin' game for crying out loud. I'm having fun. Why aren't you too?

I would counter that with "every argument for keeping it is another way of saying 'I want to keep farming ectos easily and get this stuff easily'!".

Oh, and yes, SF is not fair. But not because of the farming it allows; because it's so much better than every other build out there. Think of the poor warriors and mesmers and rangers who might as well not exist in the game since a SF sin is always superior!

It hurts my enjoyment of the game because I like there to be some semblance of balance. And I like being able to play a character without constantly having to face the fact that no matter how well I optimize their build and equipment, there will never be any purpose in it, since SF will always be superior.

Oh, and you really shouldn't use that particular argument against me, because I have a grand total of less than 150k and one ecto to my name, and all my weapon skins across all of my characters are non-rare save for two, and none of my characters have elite armors or any sorts of rare items that would be worth anything significant. I'm probably one of the poorest people on GWG.

Oh, and once again, if you think SF is ok, then go suggest that all professions be given the perma. At least then the game would be fair. Oh, wait, didn't Anet try that already? Something called Ursan? Yeah, and it failed, because Warrior and Ranger Ursans were better than all other Ursans in every way, so there was no reason to play anything but them.

Also, let's not forget, your argument of "If you don't like it, don't use it" is equally valid when arguing that alien cyborg kungfu zombie nuns should be a playable class. Some players might enjoy it, I guess Anet should implement it, right? Those who don't like it don't have to use it.

While we're at it, let's give players access to BAMPH! If players don't like it, they don't have to use it, right? And let's give them machine guns, too! And tactical nuclear missiles that are mounted on satelites! And a shout called "RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO You!" that gives all the monsters -2000 armor! And a dildo sword skin! And a skill that lets you fart pink elephants that stomp on all the enemies for 300 chaos damage!

Don't like these ideas? Think they're terrible, immature, etc? Well, tough! If you don't like them, you don't have to use them! So there's no reason NOT to put them in the game! Therefore, these must be the best suggestions ever in the history of the game! Implement them NOW, Anet!

It also hurt my enjoyment, when I can't even enjoy certain areas because....its empty. Namely, EoTN dungeons and DoA, and everywhere else except UW. Before that, I can't enjoy anything except DoA Ursan + UW. Before that, I can't enjoy anything cuz a majority was doing solo/duo farming in UW.

Unbalanced game where I can play 99% of people >>>> Balanced game where I can only play with 1% of people, assuming they're not going to change anything other than skills.

Of course, the best solution is a balanced game where I can play with 100% of people, assuming they make more areas more attractive using various other methods other than skill nerfs.

And its been over a year and ANet can't figure out how to fix the only cheat skill eh? Right...

You mean abused like 600/Smite and OB Flesh builds in high end PvE? Oh ok.

Funnily enough, Elite areas in NM don't accept Sins unless they're perma, so your asserion is incorrect.

Who knows what their motivations are? But you're right, why intentionally gimp yourself in a game that is designed to funnel players into the most efficient builds?

Shadowform is their skill, Spellbreaker is the monks, Obsidian Flesh in the Ele's and so on and so forth. Each class has methods for maintaining some form of tanking ability, even warriors have Gladiator's Stance. Obviously there are varying levels of efficacy, but that's to be expected in any game with hundreds of skills to choose from.

Guild Wars PvE is not about skill, its about time, as is evidenced by the amount of grind and title farming. And its not hard to beat the campaigns, so you need to define what "winning" is. I'm assuming you mean accumulation of wealth, and any player can do so, just go roll a Sin!

Until you realize what hypocrisy is, and that I've not advocated any of the things you've claimed, your statements are irrelevant and supercilious.

I'm sorry, but an RPG where 100% of the population can succeed anywhere at any skill level would be absolutely TERRIBLE.

You mean 99% of SF sins.

Also, has it ever occured to you that maybe, just maybe, one of the reasons these areas are so empty is because only SF sins are wanted for them?

And aren't the areas already empty except for farmers? Nerfing SF won't do anything except make the farmers move on. It won't change your ability to find a group to actually play the area.

But yes, the ideal solution would be a nerf to SF with changes to the areas accompanying it.

I'm guessing that by "winning", he means doing a HM mission, which someone is here ranting about being too difficult.

Guess what? I have about 190k to my name, zero ectos, and much prefer to play Jada (my hundred blades warrior). Guess what? I do not have a SF permasin. Guess what? I don't even know how to run the build. None of that matters.

The game IS broken. I think even anet might admit that. This game does not reward skill, ths game rewards skills. It is too late for this game, that's just how it is. And no one (NO ONE) has given a reasonable answer to a very simple question. "How does one person playing a SF perma, ruin your ability to play the game the way you want to play it?"

Do you know why I'd actually like to roll a perma? I've played through 99.75% of the GW content dozens of times already. I've dome all the eotn dungeons at least twice. There are only the elite areas of the game that I have never been able to finish (except FoW, done that once). Four years into the game, there is only myself and one other guildie who pair up with our heroes and continue to play. For nostalgia, I don't wish to leave and disband my guild (of which I am now the leader, due mainly to attrition). I will not waste my valuable playing time to pug's that fail 99% of the time. So what are we left with?

Assuming a miracle happens, and anet does not nerf SF, I WILL be rolling a permasin. i'll be doing so to enjoy the content that has been unavailable to me, not because I want to compete with some fool who has 1 million stacks of armbraces (probably from the dupe exploit). And what could possibly be wrong with that?

So by this logic, ANet should make Luxon/Kurzick Defenders available as henchmen?

Because f it, how does that ruin anyone's game? If you don't like it, don't use it.

Edit:
As for needing SF to clear UW...I've done it with a friend in HM with heroes...it isn't that hard.