Shadow Form meets the end

athariel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2009

E/A

nerf obsidian flesh, it's the root of all imbalanced farming builds, coupled with ether renewal. shadowform is nothing compared to them.

superraptors

superraptors

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2008

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain Fz View Post
I hope dervs and paragons get a buff in the update.
Also, elementalists need a functionality change to intensity to promote them in high end areas.
Something that for each energy storage ranking, the skill eventually becomes maintainable and deals good armor penetrating dmg.
eles dont need buff they are super imba in hm

Tenebrae

Tenebrae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Spain

LHV

R/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by athariel View Post
nerf obsidian flesh, it's the root of all imbalanced farming builds, coupled with ether renewal. shadowform is nothing compared to them.
You must be joking right ?

thedukesd

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by moriz View Post
it's been a long time since i've read anything as stupid. casters out damaging assassins in hardmode? yeah right. way to post a wall of text full of nonsense.
Strangely I never saw a in party search people looking for sin damager dealers and strangely I saw a lot of people looking for sos rit and eles. An yea I'm talking about HM.

You know that in HM sin has to combine high damage and survive in the same time. Monks have limited energy in case you use a monk and not an ER ele and a good monk will never expose himself cause 1 monk dead means more party member dead or even the entire party dead (as much as you think ER ele healer/prot in any of his variant is far from being invincible).

Btw you want an simple example? Go UW HM with a couple of friends. Let one aataxe full hp alive and go with your non perma damage dealer sin and try to do some damage to him, you will solo the aataxe. Now do the same with an ele. After you did that with an ele do the same with an sos rit (btw the sos rit will not stay in the middle of his spirits, will go back after he use summon spirits). Tell me witch one of them did the most damage.

moriz

moriz

??ber t??k-n??sh'??n

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada

R/

errr... assassin? seriously, you think an ele can maintain well over 100 dps as long as the target is alive? really?

thedukesd

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by moriz View Post
errr... assassin? seriously, you think an ele can maintain well over 100 dps as long as the target is alive? really?
Probably the ele is not stupid to stay and just cast skills and not move. You should had see how many time my entire party end up dead in hm and I was the only one alive with my ele. Any class that uses ranged attacks survive more then melees and cause it survive more it will do more damage.

zwei2stein

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedukesd View Post
Probably the ele is not stupid to stay and just cast skills and not move. You should had see how many time my entire party end up dead in hm and I was the only one alive with my ele. Any class that uses ranged attacks survive more then melees and cause it survive more it will do more damage.
If your parties wipes so much in hm that what you describe is actually advantage, i pity you.

"ELE LFG HM, will survive if party wipes.". Yeah. Right.

People do not look for physicals because they have no idea. PS: Sin survival being hard? Of course it is hard if your monks are HB and did not use Protective Spirit outside 55/600.

moriz

moriz

??ber t??k-n??sh'??n

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada

R/

you've just made TWO of the most idiotic statements i've read in a long time. that's quite an accomplishment.

you are assuming the assassin will somehow magically die. maybe you're just not good enough to know any better, but let me just tell you this: a properly built party will NOT fold like an overcooked noodle. in this instance, the assassin can tank any number of aatxes while pounding them with 100dps + AoE. this also happens to be completely armor ignoring, something your elementalist can never do. and at all times, the assassin gives his team +100 AL to ensure all agro stays on itself, making life for his party very easy.

so um, i guess if you and your party suck balls, then ele MIGHT outdamage the assassin in hardmode. otherwise, no.

Steps_Descending

Steps_Descending

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

IN my pocket plane. Obviously!

Little Tom's Pocket Plane [THom]

Me/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedukesd View Post
Any class that uses ranged attacks survive more then melees and cause it survive more it will do more damage.
Which is the point of melee damage dealer dealing more damage than an equally armored caster. Of course, when the melee is able to stay alive, he should logically outdps the caster.

In an hypotethical balanced MMO.

thedukesd

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2009

With random peoples is kinda hard to know how the monks will play. They can have a damn good bar and use it as some noobs.

Of course in a good guild/alliance with a lot of people there is no problem in making a good party. But well I'm in a small guild were we are max 5 people online and that happens if i decide not to go to sleep at decent hours cause I live in Europe and they live in US. The guilds in the alliance have the same problem. So based on playing with random people i can tell you that usually the melees do less damage cause they end up dead, not their fault.

Btw when I was sin daggers damage (i just didn't wanted to use sf) dealer and we made it up to dhuum there was noone to pb me and noone ps me so it was really nice to feel the hits from aataxe. Go to american d1 and see how many parties will want a non perma sin to do uw.

If they will nerf SF not the fact that the sin will become useless will make people play less with the sin, the fact that other pleople will just don't want the sin in a party will make people play less with the sin. You can be the best sin in the world as long as you can't solo and as long as you can't get in a party cause noone want you, you will have to play with other classes.

When you play a lot of time with the same peoples you see the things in a way. When you play most of the time with random peoples you see the things in another way.

The one that play with random peoples will be the ones affected by the sf nerf cause they use the sin to farm or do a couple of areas where random people parties has an insane high % in failling.

Tenebrae

Tenebrae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Spain

LHV

R/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedukesd View Post
With random peoples is kinda hard to know how the monks will play. They can have a damn good bar and use it as some noobs.
Well same as everyone in the game but if healers and prots fail , ppl dies , thats why you notice it so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedukesd View Post
Btw when I was sin daggers damage (i just didn't wanted to use sf) dealer and we made it up to dhuum there was noone to pb me and noone ps me so it was really nice to feel the hits from aataxe. Go to american d1 and see how many parties will want a non perma sin to do uw.
And how about that ? your healers screwed that up .... and so ? it has nothing to do with Sins being SF or not .

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedukesd View Post
If they will nerf SF not the fact that the sin will become useless will make people play less with the sin, the fact that other pleople will just don't want the sin in a party will make people play less with the sin. You can be the best sin in the world as long as you can't solo and as long as you can't get in a party cause noone want you, you will have to play with other classes.
Seriousy thats not an argument. The existance of annoying ppl , clueless ppl or ppl that just hate X class outside 1 build means nothing . The thing is that if 80% of sins right now are only-SF players then that 20% will become 100% and the number of ppl that "cant get in a party" will be EXACTLY the same .... only 1 difference , there will be no BROKEN god mode SF-skill combo wich is great because a thing called "skill balance" and thats the whole point.

Lishy

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

Sins are really great damage dealers in general PvE.
What is this mishegas? Great Armor, IAS, Damage, and possible support in some cases. Not to mention slight AoE dmg.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop The Storm View Post
tanking
You just humiliated yourself in front of all GWG's community, well done.

Everyone knows that tanking is how scrubs and wow fans (usually the same people) think GW should be played.

@Kain: Assassins have ridiculously good damage, particularly AoE, thanks to MS+DB chains. So efficient, in fact, that there's room for them to take handy support skills like Vanguard wards and SY.

Stop The Storm

Stop The Storm

Keeping DoA Alive

Join Date: Jan 2007

England

Were In [DoA]

A/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk View Post
You just humiliated yourself in front of all GWG's community, well done.

Everyone knows that tanking is how scrubs and wow fans (usually the same people) think GW should be played.
i didnt "humiliate" myself infront of anyone.

the class that can go in and hold aggro and tank damage is called the tank, is it that hard to comprehend? retard.

shadow form does NOT mean invincibility in a LOT of areas. if you think that, then you are a retard that has probably never used an assassin, nevermind tried to run a perma.

i like how NOT 1 person who said that shadow form is "ez" and they can do it standing on their heads has pm'd me to come on a doa run.

Mustache Mayhem

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

BEN

R/N

if your talking about the aatxe.. you guys didn't mention they have riposte and deadly riposte in hm I can see you down there without your tank.. bam bam newbie pug monk runs away with 2 down.. defeated hahahaha =]

moriz

moriz

??ber t??k-n??sh'??n

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada

R/

considering that the assassin's chain is mostly unblockable, i don't see how the riposte skills pose an issue. monks can easily deal with the damage.

Mustache Mayhem

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

BEN

R/N

I'd like to see an assassin with just defenses up with the speed those 3 attack- unless your talking 1 on 1.. actually might try it- but what I was getting at is.. these guys complaining about sf are just hating on the fact they fail.. and I can see alot of them failing right at the beginning in nm uw =] then they come on the forum and qq about sf when, even given sf they would probably failboat

thedukesd

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenebrae View Post
Well same as everyone in the game but if healers and prots fail , ppl dies , thats why you notice it so much.


And how about that ? your healers screwed that up .... and so ? it has nothing to do with Sins being SF or not .


Seriousy thats not an argument. The existance of annoying ppl , clueless ppl or ppl that just hate X class outside 1 build means nothing . The thing is that if 80% of sins right now are only-SF players then that 20% will become 100% and the number of ppl that "cant get in a party" will be EXACTLY the same .... only 1 difference , there will be no BROKEN god mode SF-skill combo wich is great because a thing called "skill balance" and thats the whole point.
What will be the positive effect on nerfing SF for players?

I see a lot of negative effects and no real positive effect.
Some negative efect:
- prices will go higher cause the other farming ways are not so fast and easy to do it
- more people will buy chars/gold/items from gold sites
- some people will leave
You can say that after the nerf of sf there will be more people to party with them. It's a myth.

How me as a player will feel the positive effects on nerfing SF.

Skill balance is something that is not feeled by the players. If they will nerf SF the next thing people will as to be nerfed will be the 600/smiter team. After that they will ask to nerf obsidian flesh. After this people will request nerfs on some of the warrior skills. Probably the sos will not be forgot too... You can't make something balanced as much as you can try. It's like you want to do something perfect when perfections doesn't not exist.

Sarevok Thordin

Sarevok Thordin

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Scotland

W/N

I love this thread......so much crying for SF......I'd personally love to be the one to pour petrol on it and see it burn by pushing the deploy button.

Mustache Mayhem

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

BEN

R/N

hehe well it beats power trading thats for sure.. I'd rather run sf and get it done quick than stand around in kamadan all day and brag how I scammed some guy out of a few ectos

Lishy

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

Suggestion to resolve the power trading problem and lack of reward:
Why not make it so the items aren't so darn rare in the first place?
Things like a 4%, hell, 0.03% drop rate should never exist.

Arduin

Arduin

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedukesd View Post
How me as a player will feel the positive effects on nerfing SF.
It would restore a bit of faith for me in Anet. Strengthening the believe that their goal is making and maintaining an interesting game, where people actually have to think what skills and equipment they have to bring in order to achieve certain accomplishments.

Faith in that GW2 won't feature the same easy buttons we are seeing at the moment in GW, and of which Shadow Form is but one visible outgrow.

dunky_g

dunky_g

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

[SNOW]

I actually couldnt care less about SF, some people want to use it, some dont.

I use it when i want to chest run in areas that I cant with a warrior. or when i just want to run in HM without being spanked.

there is hardly anything rare in the game any more that can be gained via gameplay, e.g rare mini's/nerfed shields. I know they are adding rare minis but they will never be worth more than 300-400e after a few weeks of being released.

the game is 4 years old, the good players should already have what they wanted from this game ages ago, when some people might have actually cared about e-peen. these days every tom dick and harry have 'rare' weapons, so there is no point arguing about nerfing SF because of the drops, because at the end of the day, no one cares what weapons you have there days, every other person has fow armor, and people have had ages to work on titles.

the days of e-peen in guild wars should be dead.

QueenofDeath

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2009

my epeen just dropped off. )

dunky_g

dunky_g

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

[SNOW]

wicked.

mine just grew.

moriz

moriz

??ber t??k-n??sh'??n

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada

R/

i'm constantly curious as to why people still choose to grind for anything in this game. this is anet we're talking about here. all your achievements in the HoM will likely get you a nice skinned weapon, or maybe some extra line of dialogue. if you are lucky, you might get a nice suit of armor. but since this is anet, all that initial advantage will disappear as the game progresses, since equipment in GW2. will most probably have the same easily reachable maximum as in GW1.

if grinding for achievements is the only thing left for you to do in this game, you should just stop playing for a while. you most certainly won't gain much of an reward in the next game.

l Alucard l

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

New York

its so funny seeing so many people cry over a video game its really pathetic. the only part of gw that needs to be maintained (skill balance) is pvp. pve is pve. stop crying

Blobbob

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by moriz View Post
i'm constantly curious as to why people still choose to grind for anything in this game. this is anet we're talking about here. all your achievements in the HoM will likely get you a nice skinned weapon, or maybe some extra line of dialogue. if you are lucky, you might get a nice suit of armor. but since this is anet, all that initial advantage will disappear as the game progresses, since equipment in GW2. will most probably have the same easily reachable maximum as in GW1.
This is what I'm wondering too. None of the "grind" in this game is needed, it's all pure vanity. If a new skin or mini aren't worth the time then don't bother, you're not going to fall "behind the curve" or anything. The absolute most I can see Anet ever giving us for our HoM stuff in GW2 is allowing us to carry over skins and titles that may or may not end up being exclusive to HoM rewards. Neat but no more gamebreaking than it is currently.

I hate how almost all of the Obsidian sets look, so I don't bother farming ectoplasms. Surprisingly enough, I can still play the game just fine without them. UW is a lot more enjoyable when I only go there to experience the area, not to farm a million times to I can buy a shinny new sword to go with my collection of fifty other swords I bought through UW farming.

thedukesd

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunky_g View Post
the game is 4 years old, the good players should already have what they wanted from this game ages ago, when some people might have actually cared about e-peen. these days every tom dick and harry have 'rare' weapons, so there is no point arguing about nerfing SF because of the drops, because at the end of the day, no one cares what weapons you have there days, every other person has fow armor, and people have had ages to work on titles.
Not all the players are 4 years old.

Deakon

Deakon

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

Arkansas

Just The Four Of Us [TRIO]

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by moriz View Post
if grinding for achievements is the only thing left for you to do in this game, you should just stop playing for a while. you most certainly won't gain much of an reward in the next game.
Unless of course you want to grind for achievements.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedukesd View Post
Not all the players are 4 years old.
Not that you'd realize it, when playing with them.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

SF just means threads like this to laugh at really. Was the same with Ursan etc

After trawling through the cesspit with my ban hammer, a good laugh is required. Riverside has many of those.

Keep it, nerf it, all the same to me. I have everything I need, now I just gear up all the heroes I never bothered with.

BlackSephir

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustache Mayhem View Post
these guys complaining about sf are just hating on the fact they fail..
Good to know, I never had any desire to SC anything, be it with SF or without it and I think SF is p broken mechanic, but hey, I guess I just fail at it.
Mind boggles when I read shit like this.

Blobbob

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deakon View Post
Unless of course you want to grind for achievements.
In which case they shouldn't be complaining that the only thing keeping them playing the game takes some time.

Tenebrae

Tenebrae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Spain

LHV

R/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedukesd View Post
What will be the positive effect on nerfing SF for players?

I see a lot of negative effects and no real positive effect.
Some negative efect:
- prices will go higher cause the other farming ways are not so fast and easy to do it
- more people will buy chars/gold/items from gold sites
- some people will leave
Yeah and the sky will fall down , rain will be acid and mutations will happen all over the earth. You are saying same sht ppl said about UB and no , it wont happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedukesd View Post
It's a myth.
LoL , what an irony , you just answered yourself .

Golgotha

Golgotha

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Rt/

Nerf SF.
Buff another skill or skills.
6 months later nerf those.
Buff other skills.
etc..

It's a good way to sell campaigns, I guess.

Jk)Phoenix

Jk)Phoenix

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Pizza's Town

I've Quit GW ^^

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain Fz View Post
Suggestion to resolve the power trading problem and lack of reward:
Why not make it so the items aren't so darn rare in the first place?
Things like a 4%, hell, 0.03% drop rate should never exist.
/agree

12chars

FyrFytr998

FyrFytr998

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Connecticut USA

[ITPR]

W/

I'm man enough to admit that the counterpoint to my "real life" point is just as valid. Which is why I still ask. Other than vanity. Why do people care so much about how other people go about playing a game? I mean really? How is some SF'er in New York really impacting a "traditional" player in California? Two different players. Two different instances in UW. With possibly the same outcome other than time to complete if the traditional player is good.

I saw this same kinda stuff happen when I used to play MtG. I had my decks for "Fun", but I also had my decks to "Win". And there were always those players that walked around all pissy because I spanked their "original" concoctions with a "netdeck". So they were mad because I used a winning strategy instead of "being original"? Whatever. That's why they were always the ones bounced out the tournaments first. Go be original with the other losers.

It's still all moot. The hammer is coming. I could care less really. I'm neither for or against SF and speed clears. Those players that abuse it don't bother me in the least.

Goddess Survivor

Goddess Survivor

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2008

Costa Rica

Fame Gets Me Hot And [WeT]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by l Alucard l View Post
Lets be real here,

Those complaining about SF

A. Suck and can't do it
B. Too lazy to make a sin
C. Just like to QQ
D. All of the above

Honestly if you dont like SF DONT PLAY IT! And if you have a perma and still want it nerfed ur either a liar or you suck at it.

Keep SF, if you dont use it then dont use it. QQ over a video game with an imaginary economy moar plz

exactly...all i have to respond, because you noobs just cry over it, no one forces u to use it, so get over it.

moriz

moriz

??ber t??k-n??sh'??n

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goddess Survivor View Post
exactly...all i have to respond, because you noobs just cry over it, no one forces u to use it, so get over it.
you'd have a point if SF is actually hard to use. too bad it isn't, so your comment is utter bullshit.

i don't care about farming in general, but i object SF out of principle: no online RPG, especially one that tries to market itself as a skill>time played, balanced RPG, should have a godmode build. for this reason alone, SF needs to disappear, simple as that.

but hey, if you are really as pro-uber-leet as you make yourself out to be, then go and find the next overpowered farm build. if you really are that good, not having SF won't matter to you.