Okay, so I'm prolly gunna get told stuff like "GTFO we dun like ur type here" after finishing this post.
Anyways, I just wanted to say that after SF and possibly 600/smite and/or OF are nerfed, I WILL more than likely quit (PvE), especially with the UW as it is today. As a person who has been around for 4 years, logged 2000+ Hours on my main account and gotten 10 characters through at least 1 campaign (many 2+), I am sorry to say that non-gimmicks/slow builds don't excite me any more. I enjoy the fast paced action of speed clears, and have been around since the beginning of the SC era, even helping in creating some now and then. My main account is in a Guild designed to teach, create, and perfect speed clears. I WAS around for the eras of balanced UW/FoW/DoA clears, and having said that do not wish to go back to them. Without Speedclears/Farming, what would I have to do? Go through the campaigns more? Hardly any point in that if I'm not getting to a favorite farming spot of mine to improve a build/try it on a different profession. Run balanced in elite areas? No, I wouldn't really want to do that anymore, as I have said, I've been there and it does not excite me. Max Titles? Why would I max titles if I don't enjoy anything else this game has to offer? GvG? Hell yeah. I'd probably make my main account into my main GvG account and quit PvE altogether.
This is kind of sad to me, because I have never experienced an MMO type game that has been able to Inspire me like GW1 had. I loved the casualness of a low level cap, the small skill bar, the teamwork, the build creation, and the farming. I doubt I will ever experience an MMO that I love as much as I do Guild Wars, and, these nerfs (and other details released so far) have/will convince me NOT to purchase World of Guildwars 2. I suppose I'll have to go back to DotA until it too dies out (for different reasons) or simply GvG my worries away.
I kind of wish I had never picked up a copy of GW, as before It I was able to enjoy other MMO games. I was really hyped up about WAR online, but as soon as I tried it, I became severely disappointed after being treated like a god walking amongst mere mortals with the quality of this game by Anet, so much so that I am not able to sustain enjoyment in other MMOs.
All in all,
Bye PvE, and thanks for all the fish
Shadow Form meets the end
Crippie its Tom
Alias_X
So that will fix some problems... what about all the circulating ECTO that will skyrocket in value?
They let this problem stay for too long, so people abused to skills and speed farming builds enough to get a large amount of ecto in circulation and people used to a certain type of supply and demand. Shift this, and you mess with equilibrium.
They let this problem stay for too long, so people abused to skills and speed farming builds enough to get a large amount of ecto in circulation and people used to a certain type of supply and demand. Shift this, and you mess with equilibrium.
BlackSephir
Quote:
i'll ragequit gw if they nerf mah farming builds 
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upier
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BlackSephir
If that's the only thing that keeps you people in the game then good riddance. And do me and yourselves a favour- don't buy GW2, it'll be better for everyone and especially the game.
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FyrFytr998
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BlackSephir
If that's the only thing that keeps you people in the game then good riddance. And do me and yourselves a favour- don't buy GW2, it'll be better for everyone and especially the game.
|
I've farmed at times. I've never speed cleared, but was part of a guild that was one of the first to do FoW "armor runs" in under 35min. way back before SF. But by no means am I a High End player. I just log on and do what "I" feel like doing that day in my one man guild.
As I stated before, I was unaware that SF's current state and its effect on a fake economy had a direct correlation to my ability to pay my mortgage and my kid's school tuition. All you people acting holier than thou would do me a favor by not buying GW2 as well. Maybe then the game would be left with people just having "fun" as they see fit.
moriz
godmode builds do not belong in multiplayer RPGs. therefore, shadowform should be nerfed purely on principle. that's all there is to it.
Lishy
I agree with Moriz.
While I'm in favor of LOL-imba skills like SY, SF really has no place in a game like this. It`s just general bad design.
That said, I still enjoyed UWSC. It felt like a sweet minigame and I didn't even care about the rewards.
It would have been cool if anet had a bonus mission pack mission like the uwsc roles for those that enjoy it. But I doubt that will happen.
While I'm in favor of LOL-imba skills like SY, SF really has no place in a game like this. It`s just general bad design.
That said, I still enjoyed UWSC. It felt like a sweet minigame and I didn't even care about the rewards.
It would have been cool if anet had a bonus mission pack mission like the uwsc roles for those that enjoy it. But I doubt that will happen.
Golgotha
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FyrFytr998
There is a little too much snobbery going on around here.
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StormX
Any news on when this update is taking place? if ever...
BlackSephir
Quote:
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Originally Posted by upier
Yeah, because when A.Net has the option of having money vs. having less money they will go for less money.
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Good thing AN never made a bad decision, eh?
Quote:
| There is a little too much snobbery going on around here. |
IF UR NOT SF SIN GTFO
Getting rid of the source of that seems like a good idea.
Arduin
Let's hope the Test Krewe will actually give some proper insights, playerwise.
Test Me
Quote:
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Originally Posted by moriz
godmode builds do not belong in multiplayer RPGs. therefore, shadowform should be nerfed purely on principle. that's all there is to it.
|
I believe you are missing a point. It's not the players fault for enjoying running a godmode build to speed clear, it's the game designers' repeated failures to put challenges in the game that are not as insane as to require godmode builds but still enjoyable and *repeatable*.
The only thing a player can do now after all this time is to *repeat* actions for the 100th time. I have even gotten so bored of having to fight my way through maps to get to Nick for example that I run all the way there, fast click Nick's dialog and die and zone out cause I'm really not interested in killing random mobs since... I'm not actually exploring the map I just want to get from outpost exit to where the collector is.
Sine none of the GW content is designed to be repeatable and enjoyable in repeating it, of course players came up with all the god mode gimmick builds. BUT when I first did a MQSC and saw how the team of 8 split into subteams to do specialized tasks... Man that was first time I actually had fun in ages. I've played and learned how to play every role in that team until I maxed my faction title from 0 basically. It was exactly what GW lacked: soloing but still part as a team working together for a bigger goal.
I haven't ran UWSC but I can imagine is the same. I have however played pugs in UW to defeat Dhuum and I can't see how a team would be able to get past the plains and ice wastes quests without at least one god mode gimmick build player. Because that's how bad that area is now designed.
So really, you can't blame players for having fun. It's all the fault of design mistakes that they made with GW and with the fact that they haven't really addressed any of those problems. The have never designed with repeatability in mind but they did design with grind in mind (120 ecto for the armor, titles, etc).
Therefore the conclusion one can draw is: they don't want you to actually have fun while cleaning the UW 100 times, but they designed their rewards systems that you should do that... so they only want to promote grind and grief along the lines: "I've spent 3 boring hours on each UW run and I needed to do 50 runs in order to get all the ectos I need so it took 150h of grind". (And that doesn't count the 2h you spent only to get D/Ced at end boss x times, and the 2h you spend only to wipe x times). Just like faction titles used to be, if anyone remembers. In 150h of gaming other games offer a ... much higher gaming value than this.
It's all grind, grind, grind and designed around grind as ANet designers can't imagine any other way to make their game repeatable and still appealing to players until GW2 comes out, except title grind, ecto grind, armbrace grind etc.
And we were all lured here with the "no grind promise" from when GW started and we're all stuck in the nice good memories and unwilling to leave, but if you open your eyes and look around... there is really nothing left of that promise today.
EDIT and PS: And with each and every update they seem to make, grind is even more accentuated: the "recent rest" bar at Dhuum and UW changes in general, anyone remember equipment packs? etc.
HawaiiGamer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FyrFytr998
Orly? I did not realize that GW was YOUR personal playground. There is a little too much snobbery going on around here. I can not fathom why people get their panties in a bunch on how other people play a game they paid their hard earned money for. I mean really. It's not like a bunch of speed farmers come waltzing through peoples particular instances like golfers wanting to play through a hole. I agree that the buying of ingame gold and stuff that takes away from ANET's revenue should be stopped, but some people are way too touchy about the game. And more so than anything else. IT'S A FRIGGIN GAME! Something that's supposed to give you an escape from the trials and tribulations of everyday real life.
I've farmed at times. I've never speed cleared, but was part of a guild that was one of the first to do FoW "armor runs" in under 35min. way back before SF. But by no means am I a High End player. I just log on and do what "I" feel like doing that day in my one man guild. As I stated before, I was unaware that SF's current state and its effect on a fake economy had a direct correlation to my ability to pay my mortgage and my kid's school tuition. All you people acting holier than thou would do me a favor by not buying GW2 as well. Maybe then the game would be left with people just having "fun" as they see fit. |
I've been playing GW since the date of release. I farmed UW and griffins with the old Prot-Bond build and 55hp monk. I've 600hp'd dungeons and various farming spots. And yes, I'll admit it even with the threat of banishment, I've used Shadowform!
Personally, I could care less if Perma-sins can clear/run a dungeon/area far faster and more efficeintly than a full team. In fact, I rather enjoy it! I've brought 10 characters through 3 campaigns and an expansion. I've brought my main character to GWAMM. I've completed every single elite area time and time again on numerous character classes. And frankly, the PvE content in this game is t-i-r-e-d, tired. Do you actually think I would enjoy grinding out max EOTN titles again in "balanced pugs"? Puleez!
Anet condones farming. Its obvious. Faction titles? Gimme a break! 120e+120 O'shards for FoW armor? 250 d'cores for Destroyer Gauntlets? 100 glacial stones for Glacial Gauntlets? 75e for Chaos Gloves? Most players aren't going to come by those amounts from casual gameplay. And, if players "want" them... they want them NAOW and they're going to find the most efficient way to get the required items so they can increase the size of thier epeen before the other guy. Tada! Farming builds are created.
It just so happens that SF is the best skill "when used in conjunction with other skills and/or consummables" to get the job done. As stated previously, pre-SF the same QQers were whining about whatever was the current "best build" of the time.
What are you people, SOCIALISTS?
When SF gets the nerf-bat I'll stick around to see what develops. But, if we have to go back to 4hr DoA runs... well...
HawaiiGamer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Test Me
Why? Isn't GW today proof against that very statement?
I believe you are missing a point. It's not the players fault for enjoying running a godmode build to speed clear, it's the game designers' repeated failures to put challenges in the game that are not as insane as to require godmode builds but still enjoyable and *repeatable*. The only thing a player can do now after all this time is to *repeat* actions for the 100th time. I have even gotten so bored of having to fight my way through maps to get to Nick for example that I run all the way there, fast click Nick's dialog and die and zone out cause I'm really not interested in killing random mobs since... I'm not actually exploring the map I just want to get from outpost exit to where the collector is. Sine none of the GW content is designed to be repeatable and enjoyable in repeating it, of course players came up with all the god mode gimmick builds. BUT when I first did a MQSC and saw how the team of 8 split into subteams to do specialized tasks... Man that was first time I actually had fun in ages. I've played and learned how to play every role in that team until I maxed my faction title from 0 basically. It was exactly what GW lacked: soloing but still part as a team working together for a bigger goal. I haven't ran UWSC but I can imagine is the same. I have however played pugs in UW to defeat Dhuum and I can't see how a team would be able to get past the plains and ice wastes quests without at least one god mode gimmick build player. Because that's how bad that area is now designed. So really, you can't blame players for having fun. It's all the fault of design mistakes that they made with GW and with the fact that they haven't really addressed any of those problems. The have never designed with repeatability in mind but they did design with grind in mind (120 ecto for the armor, titles, etc). Therefore the conclusion one can draw is: they don't want you to actually have fun while cleaning the UW 100 times, but they designed their rewards systems that you should do that... so they only want to promote grind and grief along the lines: "I've spent 3 boring hours on each UW run and I needed to do 50 runs in order to get all the ectos I need so it took 150h of grind". (And that doesn't count the 2h you spent only to get D/Ced at end boss x times, and the 2h you spend only to wipe x times). Just like faction titles used to be, if anyone remembers. In 150h of gaming other games offer a ... much higher gaming value than this. It's all grind, grind, grind and designed around grind as ANet designers can't imagine any other way to make their game repeatable and still appealing to players until GW2 comes out, except title grind, ecto grind, armbrace grind etc. And we were all lured here with the "no grind promise" from when GW started and we're all stuck in the nice good memories and unwilling to leave, but if you open your eyes and look around... there is really nothing left of that promise today. |
I can't even imagine bringing a "balanced pug" into the current UW Hard Mode and even thinking of having a chance at the end chest.
isildorbiafra
ANET is genius.
Question: How do I keep an ever shrinking playerbase mainly consisting of OCD players in need of a fix intrested in GW1 until the release of GW2?
Answer: Create a semi difficult chain of quests that takes a long time to finish; can not be run or farmed; and drops higly desired "rare" miniatures/ scythe!
OCD people will do anything to get the minis even if it takes them 1000 Dhuum runs.
The rich players and the power traders have new colorfull shinny trinkets to amuse themselves with.
Anet bought themselves some time until the release of GW2 by throwing the dogs a bone.
I Predict that if GW2 release date is >Q4 2010 Anet will do the same with the FoW halfway into next year.
And now for the point i'm trying to make:
In order for Anet to acomplish this mobway i.e. SHADOW FORM has to be stomped into the ground!
I think the skill will be tweaked so as to ensure sins are'nt excluded from Dhumm runs (Wastes and Plains). Speedclearing however will be gone for good.
The upside about it is that since the new and improved UW no profession is excluded from play!
Question: How do I keep an ever shrinking playerbase mainly consisting of OCD players in need of a fix intrested in GW1 until the release of GW2?
Answer: Create a semi difficult chain of quests that takes a long time to finish; can not be run or farmed; and drops higly desired "rare" miniatures/ scythe!
OCD people will do anything to get the minis even if it takes them 1000 Dhuum runs.
The rich players and the power traders have new colorfull shinny trinkets to amuse themselves with.
Anet bought themselves some time until the release of GW2 by throwing the dogs a bone.
I Predict that if GW2 release date is >Q4 2010 Anet will do the same with the FoW halfway into next year.
And now for the point i'm trying to make:
In order for Anet to acomplish this mobway i.e. SHADOW FORM has to be stomped into the ground!
I think the skill will be tweaked so as to ensure sins are'nt excluded from Dhumm runs (Wastes and Plains). Speedclearing however will be gone for good.
The upside about it is that since the new and improved UW no profession is excluded from play!
KPEATOP
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deakon
For 5-30 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss. Shadow Form ends if you use an attack skill. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5-50 Health.
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Reflect
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deakon
For 5-30 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss. Shadow Form ends if you use an attack skill. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5-50 Health.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by KPEATOP
+1
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...
And kreator...r u plain stupid, or u just act like that?
brainiac
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Reflect
Since most (if not all) SF nup-builds do not use attack skills so this wont be a nerf, but a buff -> so ill throw my -1.
... And kreator...r u plain stupid, or u just act like that? |
Gun Pierson
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Test Me
Why? Isn't GW today proof against that very statement?
I believe you are missing a point. It's not the players fault for enjoying running a godmode build to speed clear, it's the game designers' repeated failures to put challenges in the game that are not as insane as to require godmode builds but still enjoyable and *repeatable*. The only thing a player can do now after all this time is to *repeat* actions for the 100th time. I have even gotten so bored of having to fight my way through maps to get to Nick for example that I run all the way there, fast click Nick's dialog and die and zone out cause I'm really not interested in killing random mobs since... I'm not actually exploring the map I just want to get from outpost exit to where the collector is. Sine none of the GW content is designed to be repeatable and enjoyable in repeating it, of course players came up with all the god mode gimmick builds. BUT when I first did a MQSC and saw how the team of 8 split into subteams to do specialized tasks... Man that was first time I actually had fun in ages. I've played and learned how to play every role in that team until I maxed my faction title from 0 basically. It was exactly what GW lacked: soloing but still part as a team working together for a bigger goal. I haven't ran UWSC but I can imagine is the same. I have however played pugs in UW to defeat Dhuum and I can't see how a team would be able to get past the plains and ice wastes quests without at least one god mode gimmick build player. Because that's how bad that area is now designed. So really, you can't blame players for having fun. It's all the fault of design mistakes that they made with GW and with the fact that they haven't really addressed any of those problems. The have never designed with repeatability in mind but they did design with grind in mind (120 ecto for the armor, titles, etc). Therefore the conclusion one can draw is: they don't want you to actually have fun while cleaning the UW 100 times, but they designed their rewards systems that you should do that... so they only want to promote grind and grief along the lines: "I've spent 3 boring hours on each UW run and I needed to do 50 runs in order to get all the ectos I need so it took 150h of grind". (And that doesn't count the 2h you spent only to get D/Ced at end boss x times, and the 2h you spend only to wipe x times). Just like faction titles used to be, if anyone remembers. In 150h of gaming other games offer a ... much higher gaming value than this. It's all grind, grind, grind and designed around grind as ANet designers can't imagine any other way to make their game repeatable and still appealing to players until GW2 comes out, except title grind, ecto grind, armbrace grind etc. And we were all lured here with the "no grind promise" from when GW started and we're all stuck in the nice good memories and unwilling to leave, but if you open your eyes and look around... there is really nothing left of that promise today. EDIT and PS: And with each and every update they seem to make, grind is even more accentuated: the "recent rest" bar at Dhuum and UW changes in general, anyone remember equipment packs? etc. |
Just gonna add my view on farming itself alongside your post.
Since the start GW PvE has been a farming game because they've put in rare items and stuff like Obsidian Armor. This attracts a part of the playerbase that likes to farm, some casual, others hardcore. In essence, farming is a necessity in this game to get 'vanity' stuff, and without it it looses its identity.
Over the years the farming grounds in GW decreased in quality, which resulted in a few hot spots where it still pays off to farm. Together with this, the fun factor of farming itself decreased too.
Anet designs the farming grounds, the tools available to farm and the rewards. Rewards in this game suck most of the time. Why is UW endchest so popular? Because to open most chests in the game you need to buy a key and you get 1 item which often is a purple one. The importance of loot is underestimated by Anet.
Now let's take a closer look at the tools available and farming fields available
The solo farmer in the good old days: (troll cave, avicara, gryphs, ethins, etc.)
'Balanced' team farming the UW:
Duo Smite:
Shadow Form/UWSC:
I'm a 55/600 type of farmer for a couple of years now and it's a big part of my end game in pve. It gives me a blast when I see ectos drop and I don't see any reason to be ashamed about it. If they'll nerf it I will still play GW when I feel like, but I'll be disapointed ofcourse.
Shadow form and speed clears, I don't know...At least they helped in decreasing the price of celestial compasses to a more affordable level.
Whatever they do, Anet should not forget why we are in today's situation.
Reflect
Quote:
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Originally Posted by brainiac
Very wrong, only thing that would still be doable is tanking. Wouldnt be able to take EBSOH or Sliver or anything like that anymore, ie no solo sins.
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if not read wiki -> http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Attack_skill , so you do not fail further.
pumpkin pie
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Test Me
snipped, post on previous page
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tasha
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
Anet designs the farming grounds, the tools available to farm and the rewards. Rewards in this game suck most of the time.
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I'm not of the opinion that when this game started out that ANet designed certain skills so that players could farm certain areas. Prot spirit wasn't designed for use in 55 monks, but for stopping big damage in "legit" combat scenarios. I'm more in favour of the the thought that farming builds were found by players who found combinations that were not forseen by Anet. Anet were trying to patch up any damage they did (RMT for example) before they realised they could harness player's compulsion for new/shiny/expensive stuff to squeeze and extend game life. Through that we've ended up where we are now.
moriz
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Test Me
Why? Isn't GW today proof against that very statement?
I believe you are missing a point. It's not the players fault for enjoying running a godmode build to speed clear, it's the game designers' repeated failures to put challenges in the game that are not as insane as to require godmode builds but still enjoyable and *repeatable*. The only thing a player can do now after all this time is to *repeat* actions for the 100th time. I have even gotten so bored of having to fight my way through maps to get to Nick for example that I run all the way there, fast click Nick's dialog and die and zone out cause I'm really not interested in killing random mobs since... I'm not actually exploring the map I just want to get from outpost exit to where the collector is. Sine none of the GW content is designed to be repeatable and enjoyable in repeating it, of course players came up with all the god mode gimmick builds. BUT when I first did a MQSC and saw how the team of 8 split into subteams to do specialized tasks... Man that was first time I actually had fun in ages. I've played and learned how to play every role in that team until I maxed my faction title from 0 basically. It was exactly what GW lacked: soloing but still part as a team working together for a bigger goal. I haven't ran UWSC but I can imagine is the same. I have however played pugs in UW to defeat Dhuum and I can't see how a team would be able to get past the plains and ice wastes quests without at least one god mode gimmick build player. Because that's how bad that area is now designed. So really, you can't blame players for having fun. It's all the fault of design mistakes that they made with GW and with the fact that they haven't really addressed any of those problems. The have never designed with repeatability in mind but they did design with grind in mind (120 ecto for the armor, titles, etc). Therefore the conclusion one can draw is: they don't want you to actually have fun while cleaning the UW 100 times, but they designed their rewards systems that you should do that... so they only want to promote grind and grief along the lines: "I've spent 3 boring hours on each UW run and I needed to do 50 runs in order to get all the ectos I need so it took 150h of grind". (And that doesn't count the 2h you spent only to get D/Ced at end boss x times, and the 2h you spend only to wipe x times). Just like faction titles used to be, if anyone remembers. In 150h of gaming other games offer a ... much higher gaming value than this. It's all grind, grind, grind and designed around grind as ANet designers can't imagine any other way to make their game repeatable and still appealing to players until GW2 comes out, except title grind, ecto grind, armbrace grind etc. And we were all lured here with the "no grind promise" from when GW started and we're all stuck in the nice good memories and unwilling to leave, but if you open your eyes and look around... there is really nothing left of that promise today. EDIT and PS: And with each and every update they seem to make, grind is even more accentuated: the "recent rest" bar at Dhuum and UW changes in general, anyone remember equipment packs? etc. |
btw, if you are really that bored of a game that you need to resort to this kind of play style, then quit. i've essentially quit GW for the time being, since it isn't interesting anymore. i've played this game to death over the last four years, it's been a blast, but i've just done everything that i care to do and there's currently no reason for me to play. if you feel the same, then go play something else for a while. you shouldn't play a game for the sake of playing a game. it's not healthy.
Tom Swift
After reading much of this thread I am changing my opinion of Shadow form.
My opinion was that it is overpowered and should be changed but that the change would have little affect on the game.
However, I am now firmly convinced that even though it is overpowered, changing it without changing a great deal of the game itself (especially uw and dungeons) will have a hugely negative impact on the game. With the exception of PvP where SF is not a problem, this has become a farming/grind game - period - with rewards too low to support the grind without some form of "godmode."
All the nonsense about how pugs will form again if sf is nerfed is pointless. They won't. The rewards are far too low to bother finding 8 people for a long grind only to have a high chance of failure before it pays off.
Playing PvE areas just for the sake of the game is excruciatingly boring after the 2nd or 3rd character.
If they nerf shadow form and other farming builds without changing a huge amount of the game itself (which I doubt they have time to do with so few people working on it) it will just become so deadly dull it will be like paying someone to torture you - a few masochists will continue - the rest will go.
So, yeah, SF is overpowered but because of the structure of the game as it is now - leave it alone.
My opinion was that it is overpowered and should be changed but that the change would have little affect on the game.
However, I am now firmly convinced that even though it is overpowered, changing it without changing a great deal of the game itself (especially uw and dungeons) will have a hugely negative impact on the game. With the exception of PvP where SF is not a problem, this has become a farming/grind game - period - with rewards too low to support the grind without some form of "godmode."
All the nonsense about how pugs will form again if sf is nerfed is pointless. They won't. The rewards are far too low to bother finding 8 people for a long grind only to have a high chance of failure before it pays off.
Playing PvE areas just for the sake of the game is excruciatingly boring after the 2nd or 3rd character.
If they nerf shadow form and other farming builds without changing a huge amount of the game itself (which I doubt they have time to do with so few people working on it) it will just become so deadly dull it will be like paying someone to torture you - a few masochists will continue - the rest will go.
So, yeah, SF is overpowered but because of the structure of the game as it is now - leave it alone.
Jk)Phoenix
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tom Swift
After reading much of this thread I am changing my opinion of Shadow form.
My opinion was that it is overpowered and should be changed but that the change would have little affect on the game. However, I am now firmly convinced that even though it is overpowered, changing it without changing a great deal of the game itself (especially uw and dungeons) will have a hugely negative impact on the game. With the exception of PvP where SF is not a problem, this has become a farming/grind game - period - with rewards too low to support the grind without some form of "godmode." All the nonsense about how pugs will form again if sf is nerfed is pointless. They won't. The rewards are far too low to bother finding 8 people for a long grind only to have a high chance of failure before it pays off. Playing PvE areas just for the sake of the game is excruciatingly boring after the 2nd or 3rd character. If they nerf shadow form and other farming builds without changing a huge amount of the game itself (which I doubt they have time to do with so few people working on it) it will just become so deadly dull it will be like paying someone to torture you - a few masochists will continue - the rest will go. So, yeah, SF is overpowered but because of the structure of the game as it is now - leave it alone. |
reaper with no name
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tom Swift
After reading much of this thread I am changing my opinion of Shadow form.
My opinion was that it is overpowered and should be changed but that the change would have little affect on the game. However, I am now firmly convinced that even though it is overpowered, changing it without changing a great deal of the game itself (especially uw and dungeons) will have a hugely negative impact on the game. With the exception of PvP where SF is not a problem, this has become a farming/grind game - period - with rewards too low to support the grind without some form of "godmode." All the nonsense about how pugs will form again if sf is nerfed is pointless. They won't. The rewards are far too low to bother finding 8 people for a long grind only to have a high chance of failure before it pays off. Playing PvE areas just for the sake of the game is excruciatingly boring after the 2nd or 3rd character. If they nerf shadow form and other farming builds without changing a huge amount of the game itself (which I doubt they have time to do with so few people working on it) it will just become so deadly dull it will be like paying someone to torture you - a few masochists will continue - the rest will go. So, yeah, SF is overpowered but because of the structure of the game as it is now - leave it alone. |
Then go to sardelac and suggest that all professions be given the ability to maintain it. If farming is what the game is really about now, and SF is the ultimate farming method, then it's not fair for one profession to have it and no one else.
thedukesd
They should keep in mind the fact that the human farmers are the ones that are keeping the prices and the level they are now.
Remove the human farmers and you will see the prices going up and it will not be a surprise to see even 10 times higher prices for all the things that are sold now (ectos,gold/green items, mods, inscriptions,tomes).
Another thing. This will not stop the sites that sell gold/items for real money. In fact this sites will gain more money. Why? People will just buy gold/items from them cause it will be the easiest way to get them. And trust me the gold sites will always have some bots team farming (it happens in other online games and so far I didn't saw a solution to stop them).
Whithout the ability to perma sf the sin will be useless. Without perma sf he will not be wanted as a tanker cause he will be no match compared to a warrior. Whitout perma sf he will not be wanted in a party as a damage dealer cause of course the eles and the rit are better.
If the the sin will still be able to maintain sf but sf will end if he will use a spell it's bad. At least let the sin use only sin spells. This way he can at least heal himself. An acceptable nerf will be something like this: SF will end if you use a non assasin spell.
Regarding this kinda nerf: SF will end if you attack. It's just stupid. Damage from daggers with SF on is stupid low. An acceptable nerf will be something like this: SF will end if you use a non assasin attack skill.
With this ners sins will still be able to perma but they will not be able to use sliver. Sins will still be able to farm as daggers perma but the daggers perma farming is slow.
If they thing that daggers perma are fast well don't hit the sins. Why not change the damage that SoH are Orders are adding?
Even both of them combined are acceptable: SF will end if you use a non-assasin spell or a non-assasin atack skill.
And no SF is far from being a god mod as it is now. There are a lot of things that passes SF.
And if you hit the sins why not hit the 600 monk and the 55 variants?
The 600 monk can be hitted in an indirect way by nerfing famine and holy wrath and retribution.
I don't have any idea in my mind for the 55 but i'm sure there are.
I still think it's stupid to hit the survability abilities when u can hit in other places slowering the farming in other ways.
Remove the human farmers and you will see the prices going up and it will not be a surprise to see even 10 times higher prices for all the things that are sold now (ectos,gold/green items, mods, inscriptions,tomes).
Another thing. This will not stop the sites that sell gold/items for real money. In fact this sites will gain more money. Why? People will just buy gold/items from them cause it will be the easiest way to get them. And trust me the gold sites will always have some bots team farming (it happens in other online games and so far I didn't saw a solution to stop them).
Whithout the ability to perma sf the sin will be useless. Without perma sf he will not be wanted as a tanker cause he will be no match compared to a warrior. Whitout perma sf he will not be wanted in a party as a damage dealer cause of course the eles and the rit are better.
If the the sin will still be able to maintain sf but sf will end if he will use a spell it's bad. At least let the sin use only sin spells. This way he can at least heal himself. An acceptable nerf will be something like this: SF will end if you use a non assasin spell.
Regarding this kinda nerf: SF will end if you attack. It's just stupid. Damage from daggers with SF on is stupid low. An acceptable nerf will be something like this: SF will end if you use a non assasin attack skill.
With this ners sins will still be able to perma but they will not be able to use sliver. Sins will still be able to farm as daggers perma but the daggers perma farming is slow.
If they thing that daggers perma are fast well don't hit the sins. Why not change the damage that SoH are Orders are adding?
Even both of them combined are acceptable: SF will end if you use a non-assasin spell or a non-assasin atack skill.
And no SF is far from being a god mod as it is now. There are a lot of things that passes SF.
And if you hit the sins why not hit the 600 monk and the 55 variants?
The 600 monk can be hitted in an indirect way by nerfing famine and holy wrath and retribution.
I don't have any idea in my mind for the 55 but i'm sure there are.
I still think it's stupid to hit the survability abilities when u can hit in other places slowering the farming in other ways.
Ugh
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Originally Posted by Tom Swift
After reading much of this thread I am changing my opinion of Shadow form.
My opinion was that it is overpowered and should be changed but that the change would have little affect on the game. |
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| However, I am now firmly convinced that even though it is overpowered, changing it without changing a great deal of the game itself (especially uw and dungeons) will have a hugely negative impact on the game. |
* Off-topic rant for the people who always criticize PUGs:
PUGs are (usually) not composed of blithering idiots who drag their faces along their keyboards while wondering how their party got wiped by an aloe seed. From my experiences, PUGs have almost always been successful.
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| All the nonsense about how pugs will form again if sf is nerfed is pointless. They won't. The rewards are far too low to bother finding 8 people for a long grind only to have a high chance of failure before it pays off. |
Deakon
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Originally Posted by Ugh
That's what they said about UWSC. But that got nerfed and PUGs have been forming pretty consistantly in ToA. There would probably be more if some quests weren't overly difficult.
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At this point in the game, I think they should leave PvE skills as they currently are and just give us some new content occasionally. New content is what spurs group endeavors and invigorates teamwork.
reaper with no name
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Originally Posted by thedukesd
Whithout the ability to perma sf the sin will be useless. Without perma sf he will not be wanted as a tanker cause he will be no match compared to a warrior. Whitout perma sf he will not be wanted in a party as a damage dealer cause of course the eles and the rit are better.
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By the way, you can only have one of a spirit out at a time, so no multiple rits all spamming spirits.
Also, MSDB and critscythe say hi.
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And no SF is far from being a god mod as it is now. There are a lot of things that passes SF. And if you hit the sins why not hit the 600 monk and the 55 variants? The 600 monk can be hitted in an indirect way by nerfing famine and holy wrath and retribution. I don't have any idea in my mind for the 55 but i'm sure there are. I still think it's stupid to hit the survability abilities when u can hit in other places slowering the farming in other ways. |
600 is nowhere near as powerful as SF. It's also not invulnerable. It has legitimate weaknesses (unlike the poor excuses for them that SF possesses). 55 even more so.
Lishy
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Originally Posted by thedukesd
Whitout perma sf he will not be wanted in a party as a damage dealer cause of course the eles and the rit are better.
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Assassins are some of the best damage dealers in GW.
Not only do they possess Death Blossom, but they also have the high damage of critical scythe, and to a lesser extent, they have critical spear as a decent damage source.
Also, to say eles are better damage dealers, I ask:
Have you played HM? EVER? Have you done it at a later area of the game?
Not to mention that SF has LOLdamage. It actually reduces damage, you see. It's only use is to solo, and it's overpowered in that aspect.
kupp
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Originally Posted by KingXelas
If there is a thread already on this please close this.
Don't know if anyone of you know this and if you don't and love perma sins, be aware because it'll meet an end next month. Regina Buenaobra/Journal (Source) Latest Game Update - 20 November 2009 So as you can see the solution for SF is not only Dhuum's update but the next major skill update. may also include changes to other prominent farming skills - what skills are they talking about? SF will be nerfed for being abused in UWSC but what else could be nerfed 600/smite? Regina also said that it's going to be changes not only in terms of numbers but in terms of what the skill really does in-game after many "number changes" of SF I start thinking that the solution is giving it another context. This is Anet's solution for SF and I must tell you that I agree if they really nerf SF. Is this the case where we say: Merry Xmas SF? |
The Blood Countess
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Originally Posted by reaper with no name
Then go to sardelac and suggest that all professions be given the ability to maintain it. If farming is what the game is really about now, and SF is the ultimate farming method, then it's not fair for one profession to have it and no one else.
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I think a lot of people feel the same way i do, Guild wars is getting (or has been for awhile) boring. After leveling every profession, playing every campaign over and over.. maxing titles, playing elite areas old school (cause it was fun). you just get sick of it. UWSC was one of the few things that still entertained me, lots of fun drunk nights with guildies. Now that its gone I seem to be doing nothing but... grinding more titles (I'm so bored I'm working on getting legendary vanquisher on a second character). and buying and selling stuff.
The only reason I seem to play at all anymore is cause I'm in a long distance relationship and my boyfriend and I play together. But I think we will be moving on to another game, cause we are just bored.
Benderama
if SF is out of the game maybe more newer players will join, some people are put off when they start playing an assassin because they'll run into groups tellnig them to be a perma sin. the community will jsut move onto another solo build, even if people moan its not as if SF was the only farming build
BlackSephir
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Originally Posted by thedukesd
Whithout the ability to perma sf the sin will be useless.
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| Without perma sf he will not be wanted as a tanker cause he will be no match compared to a warrior |
UH OH, SOMEONE THINKS TANK 'N SPANK IS SOMETHING ELSE THAN A RETARDED CONCEPT BROUGHT TO GW FROM OTHER MMOs!
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| Whitout perma sf he will not be wanted in a party as a damage dealer |
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| cause of course the eles and the rit are better. |
intimidator89
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Originally Posted by thedukesd
Whithout the ability to perma sf the sin will be useless. Without perma sf he will not be wanted as a tanker cause he will be no match compared to a warrior. Whitout perma sf he will not be wanted in a party as a damage dealer cause of course the eles and the rit are better.
And no SF is far from being a god mod as it is now. There are a lot of things that passes SF. I still think it's stupid to hit the survability abilities when u can hit in other places slowering the farming in other ways. |
2. Anyone can be made a tank with bonds and enchantments.
3. The whole concept of SF is broken unless reverted back to its original design, short duration of invinvibility followed by a large loss of health as a penalty and long recharge. The original skill was fine-mistake #1 was changing it in the first place. Mistake #2 was the repeated failures to fix mistake #1.
4. Anet nerfed Ursan for its PUG friendly farming of high end areas. Any class could do it and in my opinion was much more amenable to a MMORPG than the current broken godmode of SF with pve skills. Now all we have is "Running Rragars 15k", etc. It's broken, it's about 1.5 years overdue for a real nerf.
5. Bye bye Shadow Form now GTFO.
reaper with no name
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Originally Posted by The Blood Countess
If you feel like you are left out because you don't have a sin to perma... make a sin, its not hard.
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Lishy
Correction. There are 9 professions.
There is a scythe, but no profession that benefits from them that don't already have a weapon/
There is a scythe, but no profession that benefits from them that don't already have a weapon/
UnChosen
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Originally Posted by Ugh
Ahh, we lost one! D:
I agree with this. After the Dhuum addition, a majority (from my observations) of GW players (specifically those in PUGs) have failed repeatedly to complete the UW. And, those attempts were in NM with the help of a perma and consumables.* Of course it is an Elite area, but without a perma or that Earthbound gimmick, UW (even in NM) may become a bit too difficult. This probably goes the same for some other elite areas as well. |
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* Off-topic rant for the people who always criticize PUGs: PUGs are (usually) not composed of blithering idiots who drag their faces along their keyboards while wondering how their party got wiped by an aloe seed. From my experiences, PUGs have almost always been successful. |
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| That's what they said about UWSC. But that got nerfed and PUGs have been forming pretty consistantly in ToA. There would probably be more if some quests weren't overly difficult. |
Blobbob
As a quick comment on the people talking about how Anet has broken their "no grind" promise..... how? You can easily get to max level with maxed out weapons and armor and the skills for whatever build you feel like running in about a week. The only thing you have to "grind" for are skins, which are not in any way necessary. The "grind" is completely optional, anything that's hard to get is literally only there for the people who want to look different. Regular armor and collector weapons compete just as well as Obsidian armor and Torment weapons.
People act like you need to be swimming in money to be able to play the game and you don't. I do fine and I don't even bother with ectoplasms, all but 2 or so of the Obsidian sets look terribly bland which makes them worthless to me personally. Anet kept their promise, there's a difference between being able to reach the point where you're on a level playing field without any grind and being able to run the game completely dry in a week. Titles and expensive items give players something to strive for but they have absolutely no affect on being able to play the game.
People act like you need to be swimming in money to be able to play the game and you don't. I do fine and I don't even bother with ectoplasms, all but 2 or so of the Obsidian sets look terribly bland which makes them worthless to me personally. Anet kept their promise, there's a difference between being able to reach the point where you're on a level playing field without any grind and being able to run the game completely dry in a week. Titles and expensive items give players something to strive for but they have absolutely no affect on being able to play the game.