New In-Game Store Item - Limited Edition Wintersday Costume Pack

Partly why we do not have any major content update ever since the relase of GWEN, and no I dont consider Dhuum to be a major content update.

If they stop producing new content then the game would dwindle and die. ANet should know that. Which is why they are thinking of content update next year but whether these new content would be buyable through the store or free, we are not sure yet. I think chances are, they would be in-store transactions.

Between the release of GWEN and the release of GW2 is a time span of 3+ years with no new releases. I am sure ANet execs must have deliberated long and hard if they have to release another GW1 expansion pack in between. My GUESS is that they do not have the resources to release another GW1 expansion pack while working on GW2 and maintaining GW1 at the same time. Thus, they resorted to micro transactions to gather the additional revenue.

Signs of the future for GW............CS game.

Channeling Gaile?

If even a small fraction buy into this bollocks, ANet more than recoups the cost to make it. "Long hours" is very nice and non-informative, and what I want to know is who suggested 1/5th the purchase price of a full campaign for a costume set? That is insane, and what's worse is, players actually buy into it!

This whole thing is like watching a Discovery Channel special on lemmings. Or ANet as the Pied Piper.

I bought GW under the expressed notion that I would get actual new content on a regular time interval, and that GW would avoid both the monthly fee and a microtransaction model. Economically the costs would even out to something like WoW, IF ANet wasn't run by a bunch of monkeys.

The move to "micro transactions" ($9.99 is micro? LOLOLOLOLOL) is great for business, but horrible for customer relations. ESPECIALLY in a flagging economy, people on a large scale won't be willing or are incapable monetarily of following a model like this.

Just as a comparison, have a gander at the WoW "Mohawk Grenade." There's a massive TV marketing campaign with a well known celebrity, for an item that does nothing more than act as a joke. Cost to player? $ZERO.

Yes, WoW has a monthly fee, and with 11 million subscribers at an average of $12 or so a month, comes in at $132 million a month in revenue, so there's no shortage of bread and water for the devs there.

But GW is not some money pit that is circling the drain either, with 5 million copies sold at around $40 each (averaging late buyers with CE editions and such), that's a cool $200 million not including any "micro-transactions" like extra storage, character makeovers, etc.

So really, its a red herring for "community relations" to claim the pity route for their poor programmers who work so gosh darn hard for such little recognition, I mean, don't they all just want a pat on the back for their extra sooper hard work? I'm sorry, Regina wasn't channeling Gaile, she was channeling Sarah Palin, all we're missing is "youbetcha" and a wink.

Though I think it's old news to even care about GW1's death and over the top things they add to make money... What I do wonder is why they skimp on the promotional factor. If you think about it, good update = good promotion for both GW1 and 2. And not promotion like a TV commercial, but promotion like solidifying the community relationship to the brand. Of course this takes money... but I'm also confused why that is constantly an issue. Ask NCSoft to pony the hell up? They are a publisher afterall, and should be responsible for the ongoing investment in the community. I've seen games with ongoing development time 5+ years... and these weren't WoW or getting monthly fees either. So Anet is in a way out of step with PC audience expectations, and that way they've failed.

I'm actually growing to like these costumes and hope more people buy them. They're improving the visuals after a long stretch of the game turning more and more into a bizarre freakshow. People wearing costumes aren't running around with some rubbish tonic active, or some dreadful fashion accessory like chaos gloves.

I do believe we are seeing the future of GW2 in all these "micro" transactions. Everything from elite armors/weapon skins and makeover kits to "mini" expansions is what I am beginning to expect in GW2. Buy the "one" chapter and after that it's all micro this and micro that.

Great post. 100% agreed.

That's two expensive of those, I bought the entire trilogy for 3x that...

Kaleban, do me a favor please:

Take the total amount that you have spent on Guild Wars, then divide that by the number of hours you have played. I'd like to be able to put your comments about cost into context.

Second, please let me know how much these micro transactions change the balance of the game.

Third, please give other examples where corporations aren't allowed to change their business models over time in order to react to economic circumstances.

Thanks.

2600 hours over 55 months. Bought all the campaigns, none of the extra fluff from the store, and I bought the CE editions of Factions and NF. So probably about $180 give or take $10.

Of course, I'm not so dense that I don't see you "leading the witness" as it were... In an effort to derail your obvious argument I will just say that the gaming business is based on a certain model, MMOs especially, that include low cost/hour of gametime. While my marginal utility of GW is high, the added cost of $9.99 "micro" transactions completely upsets that balance and market predictions for companies. Its akin to the housing market here in Florida, for a while it was a nice smooth curve, and then it got spiked, and exploded and self-destructed. So in the short term ANet may see profit, in the long run it can only serve to hurt business.

Not at all. Unless you're one of those whose concern over cosmetic appearance deflates your ego, i.e. "e-peeners." But as it stands, the PvE component is largely cosmetic, people don't run UW hundreds of times for the scenery, they do it for drops to "pimp" their characters. By utilizing pay-to-play for cosmetic upgrades, ANet is basically condoning gold-selling, but only as long as its only from them. Its their game, they can do whatever they way, even if in the end it ruins the franchise.

I never said they should not change their business model. However they should admit it to the playerbase, so there aren't a bunch of "wtf?!" moments and threads about why they did it. As it stands, there is rampant speculation that they're in equal amounts, evil, profiteering, poor and homeless.

Lastly, perhaps you shouldn't construct your post entirely out of loaded questions? Thanks.

(snark)
Okay, so if you were to purchase this upgrade your total cost would go from $0.069/hr to $0.073/hr. I could see where that would upset you.
(/snark)

I am very happy when I buy a console game for my son at $60 and he gets 20 hours enjoyment ($3.00/hr). So I find Anet's attempt to extract a bit more cash out of my wallet to be a pittance, especially since it is purely optional.

I would agree with you if the upgrade caused an imbalance in the meta and wasn't, strictly speaking, optional.

I certainly agree with you that GW is largely cosmetic. I also share your concerns of diluting their franchise. Where I would draw the line is if they decided to sell things that are otherwise difficult to obtain in-game. For example, if they sold FoW armor. As it is though, they are selling something that you can't obtain. I've seen a bunch of people with the new armor, and every time I see it I think "hmm, another $10 for Anet". While it looks nice, it's not as impressive as FoW, eternal swords, VS, divine aura, et cetera.

I completely agree that Anet can and should do a better job of change management. But one of my managers once told me "No matter what you say, you're bound to piss of 30% of the people". For the Guild Wars community, I'd place that at closer to 50%.

Easier to attack your post than create my own. I've posted previously, but since I have found your posts here and on other threads well thought-out, I thought I'd do a bit of cross-examination to see how well you could support your assertions.

This sort of comparison is erroneous.

For example, if that game is single-player (aka pve) then a guild wars campaign, sold at let's say $50, gives you probably 40 hours of new content-play. Better than your average console game, but still in the same range (if you normalize price by content-time).

Now, any further game time spent is just repetition of the same content. I could very well spend the same amount of time replaying a console game over and over again (to get all achievements, for example). So, the fact that you choose to play only 20 hours on the console game is entirely up to you, doesn't mean GW has a better value.

If the game was multi-player, then accepting a $3/hour rate is just a bad consumer decision. Any multiplayer game has to have a lot more value than that. For example, I bought Team Fortress 2 for about $9 and played it >400 hours which gives me 0.0225$/hour. That is great play value. If you play GW for multiplayer than I don't see a problem having the similar play value.

I hope you see the problem with your comparison.

Now, to the issue of the OP topic, I'll just add that $10 for a minor cosmetic skin is = overcharging. I don't like this "macro-transaction" model and I would stay away from GW2 if they follow up with it. I already changed my stance from buying pre-order and will wait to see what is their business plan for the next game.
As a personal preference I would rather entertain a monthly fee if that meant content (of any sort) is equally available to everyone. Looking forward to SW: The Old Republic in regards to that.

I would rather have an optional "micro this and micro that", than a MANDATORY monthly fee.

I stated before in another thread that I'm for this now after having initial concerns about the micro transactions. It will enable players to do things with their characters out of game that they might not be able to do in game. For instance, they can make different costumes for purchase to further add customization to players characters. While avoiding the grind necessary to obtain some ELITE skins. Being a very busy husband, father, and firefighter. This appeals to me greatly, as my "actual" playing time is sometimes limited. And to stop playing to go and farm for mats and gold is time consuming and boring. So I can now get the "look" I want while not wasting time. These micro transactions can also begin to act as a way of defeating e-bay gold sellers also.

I know this doesn't work for our unemployed and younger players, but hey, they obviously have more time to play than I do anyways (Yes, I know this is a generalization, so what?). So while they can go and "grind" it out for their elite looks while I'm chilling with my family.

The best part is this will all be optional. Your GW experience will be dictated by finding out what you're willing to put into it. That being real life cash or ectos. And to head anyone off at the pass. It will be auto phail if ANET decides to lose their minds completely and sell gold and mats for RL cash. I would immediately switch to WoW or something similar. There is a fine line between genius and stupidity on their parts.

The problem with this, as I posted in other threads too, is that you cannot just add the cost as gameplay value. That's like saying $9.99 for an extra Xunlai pane has the same value over time as 1/5th of a full campaign.

A direct cost/time comparison only works logically if the items being compared have the same marginal utility. Five missions and their attendant zones, mobs and even just landscape artwork from Prophecies (~$9.99 according to your argument) should require the same resources to make as the costumes.

I think we can both agree that the price for the costumes is MORE than exorbitant, and what even funnier is the idea that $9.99 is a special "deal" and that each INDIVIDUAL costume will normally be $6.99. You can argue economics all day until you're blue in the face, but that's just pure profiteering and kind of a slap in the face to longtime GW players who signed on with the initial release and its promises.

Well, actually it isn't, based on both economic and marketing principles. There was a simple concept in grad school that they called "share of the belly". It basically stated that anything that goes in your stomach indirectly competes with anything else that goes in your stomach. So, in an odd way, Coca Cola competes with Oscar Mayer Hot Dogs.

By extension, any form of entertainment compares in some way to any other form of entertainment. Some direct comparisons can be made, but stating that the rule doesn't hold because you're not making that direct comparison is in itself erroneous.

I would agree with your argument that some might state that the marginal utility of your RPG dollar is worth less than the marginal utility of a different game, say an iPhone app.

But to state that we're somehow getting a bad deal because we'd be spending more than 7 cents an hour playing an RPG is a pretty thin argument at best.

I agree that $10 is steep, and I choose not to pay it, at least at this time. I'm against micro-transactions on principle, but can't seem to get upset about something that is cosmetic and in no way affects game play.

I'm actually quite saddened to find I can't wear my frosty hat when trolling RA with my W/Mo Infuse Health bar anymore

Oh yeah, I completely agree here. Not every GW dollar spent is equal. I just purchased a fourth account, buying GW Trilogy for $15. Much better deal than $10 for shiny objects or an extra storage pane.

Like you, I'm a long-time GW player, having purchased "glowy hands" way back when. But I am completely unable to become upset with Anet for offering something that is completely optional and in no way affects game play.

And as far as the promises go, I really wish that Anet had been able to follow through on their vision. But GW is still far and away the best value for my computing dollar I've ever spent, and I go all the way back to a home-built Sinclair ZX-81 that loaded games off of cassette tape!

I'm not upset in any way or form either and at least we agree on not liking the "micro/macro"-transactions system. Probably has to do with being used to old-school gaming.

But there's one thing that I don't agree with most on these forums. For me gameplay includes visuals. That's why I play a fantasy RPG (or I should say I played). Visuals are a major reason why I spent time repeating content (and I did enjoy it). Doing a dungeon a 20th time is nothing new for gameplay, it's about getting a new flashy end-chest drop. That's what it was designed for. Imagine playing a fantasy RPG game where all the armors are the same and there are no item drops. How good would that be?

So I hope you see why I consider visuals as part of my gameplay enjoyment.
Not complaining about GW, it's just a point of view that applies here as well.

PS: For competitive play I have other games to keep me busy.

Agreed, and the points are all fair. That's why, as a middle aged guy I have all hot looking female characters and create interesting armor combinations (I'd rather stare at a female backside than a male one whilst playing).

For me what differentiate it is:

I see someone in FoW armor and I think "They either worked really hard or paid some Chinese guy a lot of money to get that". (stereotype warning!)

I see unique a Armor combination with interesting dye and think "That person was inventive enough to come up with a really cool-looking set".

I see the $10 Anet armor and I say "Cool, that person liked the armor set enough to pay Anet $10. At least it'll help keep the lights on".

There is really so much wrong with this thread I don't even know where to begin at this point. I know Gurus isn't exactly a bastion of critical thinking, but this is getting ridiculous.

Here's what normally happens when you stop producing content:
1) Your players run out of things to do.
2) Players who have nothing to do will stop playing.
3) Nobody is left to buy idiotic costumes for real money.

So who is actually "hurting your experience" here? It's all of the people who are happy recycling the same shitty content over and over again. Take a look at some of the posts in this thread:

This is exactly the thinking that enables the GW microtransaction business model.

There is no actual problem here, because everyone is getting exactly what they want. Those who want to buy the costumes can, those who don't want to aren't compelled to, all players can continue farming, grinding, or whatever for free, and Anet takes the profit off the top. Until the playerbase decides that hey, grinding the same dungeon thousands of times for a rare cosmetic upgrade isn't a good use of their time, the microtransaction model is a win-win; there is simply no basis for complaint here.

Let me try to imagine what some of these people are feeling:

It is called "Jealous Envy". If I am too cheap to buy them myself, then it hurts when I see someone else wearing them in the game, thus I try to ask people around me not to buy them.

Jealous Envy?

That's completely untrue. I wouldn't doubt that everyone arguing against the micro-transaction model could buy these costumes if they wanted to. What we fear is the continuation and expansion of this micro-transaction model. For my points on this, I refer you back to my original arguments in this thread.

I too am a bit nervous about the direction this is heading in. While they look cool... they aren't "just cosmetic" since they can be used in actual combat. It really is no different from selling an actual armor set for real money. It's just not the kind of business model that was promised to customers when they purchased the product. I know A.net needs the money (simply saying they made 200 million, without taking into account how much of that money was the retailer markup, etc is a little shortsighted). And as such, I'm sure they will continue to do this in the future. People are buying these and it is profitable.

But that doesn't excuse the fact that this is the slippery slope that I first warned about when the in-game store was introduced. BMP? Fine, you aren't just paying for the weapon skins, but also the actually missions. Pet and skill unlock pack? Okay, something for the lazy for something already available in game. But when you get "pay money for this cool armor..." that's a line I didn't want to be crossed.

The main fear people have is that this will simply continue. Many of the people's gut reaction against this is mainly because many microtransaction based games are just TERRIBLE games... so that gives microtransactions as a whole bad vibe.

I understand why this is done and why it is needed... but still, I don't see stuff like this helping GW2 sales and word of mouth about the GW series. I doubt the short term profits made from this will overcome the (abiet small) long term lost profits from people who don't like microtransactions abadoning the game.

Has anyone noticed the female Dwayna "wing things" on the arms clip each other and also the back of the costume? Saw that today on someone in Kamadan. You'd at least think if they were going to charge $10 they'd make sure the costume doesn't clip.

I remember that discussion back when it first came up. I guess anet is going to continue down that slope.

I remember when I first got this game. I fully expected the game to evolve and change. What I did not expect at all was all the added content I did not have to pay for. There has been far more given to us then what has been taken away.
I can care less what is added to the in game store as long as it gives no one any advantage over other players whether it be pve or pvp.

[removing the hat of a game customer...]

If I am ANet, I would have said the hell with it and just go with the subscription based model that most gamers seem to be just fine and dandy with (see Aion). A subscription based model would be a more solid path towards long term profits.

The moment they started selling cosmetic upgrades some people here started using the "Satanic" word on them. I really don't think a business model based around free-to-play and financed through releases and micro transactions would be competitive in today's MMO world. Furthermore, even if in the end they provided more value for money than the subscription based MMOs, they still get more bad rep from their customers. This would hurt their sales.

I wish ANet would just give up and follow the rest of the MMO world into the subscription model, ditch the bad rep micro transactions and spare themselves the expensive as well as the hectic schedule of needing to release every 6 months just to stay competitive. It is just not worth it.

[putting on the hat of a game customer...]

I would rather have more optional cosmetic micro transactions than mandatory subscriptions to finance this game so I would prefer to support free-to-play games and hopefully more MMOs would be free-to-play even though I dont think that is going happen.

Me, I wish the rest of the MMO world would just give up trying to replicate WoW's success, and follow GW into the NON-subscription model.

I do not want a world where EVERY game I play requires a subscription.

Sure, and I agree with you while having the hat of a game customer ON. But look around you, how many MMOs require a subscription and how many are actually free-to-play? Which is the majority?

You want a good free-to-play MMO that is well financed so that GW2 would be released with excellent quality 3+ years after the latest release, which is GWEN in Aug 31st 2007.

ANet simply doesn't have the army of designers, developers, and testers that Blizzard has because GW's revenue is not even close to WoW's. It is stupid to demand ANet to have a new release of GW1 every 6 months while they are working on GW2 at the same time. How do you think they are going to get by from GWEN sales (from 2007) till the time when GW2 is ready?

Here's how I see it.

I do not like the micro-transaction business model, because it takes our "free to play" game and blocks off some content that can only be accessed by shelling out some cash. This may be cosmetic content only, but it truly moves the game outside of "free to play", because some content requires you pay.

But.

I really do enjoy playing Guild Wars, and have done so since release. I don't have many big complaints about the game, and I don't think Anet has gone wrong yet - so considering there is no required monthly fee, I don't mind dropping a few bones here and there to ensure the continuation of a game I've enjoyed consistently for years, and getting a little eye candy for it. Yes, I would love absolutely everything to be free in GW, but I've come to accept that can't be a reality if I want the game supported by Anet. What can I say? I'm a sucker for the game.

And I refer you back to my explanation of why your arguments are complete bullshit. Microtransactions are a symptom of the root problem. Anet is simply giving the players what they want - the privilege to grind existing content for free.

It should tell you something about GW as a whole when players think a cosmetic upgrade is game-changing.

Where were all of you when they released the collector's editions with exclusive Divine Aura and minipets (minipets that could actually be traded in-game - the closest thing yet to selling gold for real money)? Or pre-order bonus/game of the year weapon skins?

You have got to be f'ing kidding me. Do you really not realize that games themselves are "content that can only be accessed by shelling out some cash." What do you think Prophecies, Factions, and Nightfall were? Could you access GW content without buying GW? Are you people even listening to yourselves?

I'm going to say it again: GW players demonstrate that they enjoy grinding the same content over and over again for shinies. Microtransactions allow these players to continue doing so without paying - those who pay are subsidizing those who don't. As long as the players continue acting the way they do, this is the kind of treatment they should expect.

Oh well A-nets got my paycheck Horrah now i need to be able to buy it for my guildies
\
any ideas how?

Micro transactions

People moan and whine about "Where's my skill update?!?!?!?!?!?" Oh please, they can't afford anything it seems, so they are making money for these "balances" you so desperately need.

Not bashing Daesu, just answering your question.

I've been accessing all the GW content without paying for it for years now. What have you been doing?

You're just being difficult, Burst. We're talking about content tacked onto the game(s) we all already purchased, and you know it. Don't be argumentative just for the sake of it, because it just makes you look stupid.

Hmmm, I'm wondering, are we going to get more headpieces outside of events?

Great opportunity for Anet too sell some sets in the store.

again - fork out the cash deal... lame

Still dont get it why people moan atleast for people who doesnt want it doesnt need to pay up for it. 8.99 euros aint that much either. Dont know the dollar price but still.

I'd rather buy outfits than paying up for a lame xp boost pot in another game thats laggy as shit far even worse than GW and then concludes this game isnt profitable enough we shut it down on this date.

They dont have the full staff team on the GW side either its just only a few people who is continuing the update the rest are working on GW2.

The skill update will also come when its ready!

I'd rather get small updates rather than none!

You need to pay attention, because I'm not just being difficult. If you were less dense you would realize that you're trying to make a distinction where there isn't one. There is nothing fundamentally different between Factions, the Bonus Mission Pack, or this costume pack. All of them are extra content that you have to pay for. You can argue that Factions is a better deal for your money than a few fancy outfits, but they're ultimately the same thing - extra stuff for extra money.

What's particularly interesting here is that many people openly admit that they only play for the shinies. Thus, adding shinies is actually better value for these players than extra missions.

Except Factions is fundamentally different than the BMP or the costumes in that the extra content includes new skills, and therefore has a direct effect on a core aspect of the whole game.

There's a fundamental difference. The campaigns are games, the bonus mission pack adds gaming content. The costume pack has no 'gaming value' whatsoever and is therefore in no way equivalent.

The costume pack is to guild wars as a bottle of wood polish is to chess.

I play for the shinies, among other things. Notice the letter 'L' in that word. 'Play' for the shinies, as in, accomplish game-related stuff, get rewarded with shinies. 'Pay' for the shinies, that does nothing for me.

Sorry, that's not a fundamental difference. The fact is that Anet is still providing you additional content for additional money; whether that content is worth the amount of money they are asking is a question for the individual, and that question is one of value, period - not "gaming value" or whatever other arbitrary "type" of value. If the costumes don't have value commensurate to their cost, people won't buy them, it's really that simple.

Let me put it this way: if you honestly think that buying a painting or movie is fundamentally different from buying a video game, you aren't thinking about your purchases correctly.

There's a reason chess sets with ivory chessmen cost more than ones with plastic chessmen.

If you enjoy the grinding itself, you aren't really playing for the shinies. As I stated in the other microtransaction thread, if I wanted Obsidian armor, it would be a much better use of my time to work 10 minutes of overtime and buy that armor with real money - but that's because I don't enjoy grinding. If all you actually want is the shinies, buying is a lot better than grinding.

And if you do enjoy grinding, be thankful that other people are subsidizing your playtime by buying costume packs and storage panes.