Lately I have been trying to think a lot about multi purpose hero teams. The usual racway, arkfenway, sabway and discordway is what usually comes to mind.
There are pros and cons to each build but it seems like out of all of them the physical style builds are inferior (from the heroes use) than the caster builds.
The use of racway is pretty limited and unless you use an imbagon or have good healers you can run into trouble in most hard mode areas. There isn't much change you can use to most builds it's basically all ranged physicals + support. Where as most of the caster builds can be loaded with just about any utility you may need.
With arkfenway, general aoe (if noone runs up and aggros) can get more spirits demolished at start. Also relies a lot on spirit damage unless your going to run like 2 high dps melee/ ranged chars. Definitely need an aggro gatherer to keep spirits alive for most of the harder aoe battles.
Sabway is a decent all around, though heroes use of spiteful spirit causes a lack of damage from that main part. It's basically a pressure build relying on damage from multiple sources which isn't that bad. But the spiteful spirit elite for a hero generally ends up being a waste since that target will be spiked usually.
Then of course everyone loves and hates discordway. It is easy c-space 1234 ap caller spike. Just prime a condition and a hex, spike, rinse and repeat. It is boring but effective and heroes can manage to use it well and have many utility spots to slap on.
I keep trying to think about how effective big physical groups are when you run them with other people. But it just doesn't seem like we can get that great effective build done with heroes. Melee heroes basically just will run around half the time if we switch targets. You could try running some spear chucker rangers or other ranged physicals but heroes still will usually lack some good physical dps.
I run with a paragon and if an area is hard I will bring my imbagon build to make it tons easier. But it just seems like for most general effectiveness discord/ caster builds constantly outshine any physical team based hero builds.
I was hoping that this thread would get some discussion going so there will be less "my char is x what heroes should I run". If we talk about the general usage of most of the "well known hero teams" then they may see the thread and pick and choose for their own.
Discuss general pve hero usage.
MercenaryKnight
upier
I'd probably go with an SoS spirit spammer and an ER protter as the core with the third slot wasted on what your character needs.
IronSheik
On any of my melee characters I run the basic same setup. (Usually using a scythe)
And that is to amplify all damage that I do.
I bring a SoS Hero with r10/12 Judge's Insight+Strength of Honor and a Level 14+ splinter weapon
I then run some type of curse hero with weaken armor, MoP and optionally Barbs.
This doesn't have to be a necro though, I've ran it on paragons to rits.
Third is a general tease/fevered/AoD mesmer. Prevents large pressure with Shadow wep and AoE rupts.
And that is to amplify all damage that I do.
I bring a SoS Hero with r10/12 Judge's Insight+Strength of Honor and a Level 14+ splinter weapon
I then run some type of curse hero with weaken armor, MoP and optionally Barbs.
This doesn't have to be a necro though, I've ran it on paragons to rits.
Third is a general tease/fevered/AoD mesmer. Prevents large pressure with Shadow wep and AoE rupts.
maxxfury
Arrogant Bastard
I use this setup for most areas:
MM (+MoP/Barbs for physicals; proto/hex removal otherwise)
ER healer
SoS Rit (+SoH for melee)
I prefer this setup over Discord/Sab/Rac. It works best with melee since you can get SoH and the Rit hero will spam Splinter on you (MoP+ Barbs are bonuses...I don't bother microing them so they aren't as noticeable as the Splinter spam).
I don't like discord because an ER hero easily out-heals/protos anything the necros can do.
I like Sabway a bit better, but it has the same healing problem (necro healers are inferior to ele healers) and SS seems wasted on heros.
MM (+MoP/Barbs for physicals; proto/hex removal otherwise)
ER healer
SoS Rit (+SoH for melee)
I prefer this setup over Discord/Sab/Rac. It works best with melee since you can get SoH and the Rit hero will spam Splinter on you (MoP+ Barbs are bonuses...I don't bother microing them so they aren't as noticeable as the Splinter spam).
I don't like discord because an ER hero easily out-heals/protos anything the necros can do.
I like Sabway a bit better, but it has the same healing problem (necro healers are inferior to ele healers) and SS seems wasted on heros.
MercenaryKnight
Everyone can feel free to post more than 3 heroes (incase some might find a friend to tag along). My guess is that using the generic MM+ ER+ SoS heroes along with a triple discord 1 ap caller and 1 save yourselves spammer/ high dps physical would be a really good set up.
Also I am curious as to what your ER heroes skill choices are. Since for the most part I haven't had much luck with mine acting very good (may have been cause vekk was on passive).
Also I am curious as to what your ER heroes skill choices are. Since for the most part I haven't had much luck with mine acting very good (may have been cause vekk was on passive).
Arrogant Bastard
Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
Everyone can feel free to post more than 3 heroes (incase some might find a friend to tag along). My guess is that using the generic MM+ ER+ SoS heroes along with a triple discord 1 ap caller and 1 save yourselves spammer/ high dps physical would be a really good set up.
Also I am curious as to what your ER heroes skill choices are. Since for the most part I haven't had much luck with mine acting very good (may have been cause vekk was on passive). I use this on my ER: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Sub mit+Query
Set on passive too. I've seen heroes forget to put ER on because they were busy wanding.
In an 8-man team, the players should run 2 physicals or 1 physical + MoP; although most other things would still work. As for the other player's heroes, they probably want to bring 1 healer and the other two as damage/utility (e.g. mm+hex removal, spirits, orders, extra copies of PS, etc.).
If you are going to spam SY! then a paragon hero may also be useful since they use Blazing Finale and They're On Fire pretty well (plus some other useful shouts/chants and another source of physical damage).
Also I am curious as to what your ER heroes skill choices are. Since for the most part I haven't had much luck with mine acting very good (may have been cause vekk was on passive). I use this on my ER: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Sub mit+Query
Set on passive too. I've seen heroes forget to put ER on because they were busy wanding.
In an 8-man team, the players should run 2 physicals or 1 physical + MoP; although most other things would still work. As for the other player's heroes, they probably want to bring 1 healer and the other two as damage/utility (e.g. mm+hex removal, spirits, orders, extra copies of PS, etc.).
If you are going to spam SY! then a paragon hero may also be useful since they use Blazing Finale and They're On Fire pretty well (plus some other useful shouts/chants and another source of physical damage).
IronSheik
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxxfury
Eep! Drop Judges insight asap....nullifies mop and orders!
MoP is on one target and this is in H/H Pve where things are rarely bunched. Judge's Isn't on me 24/7 and AoHM for my scythe adds more than orders/Barbs. Weaken armor is the only important skill for slash n bash
MercenaryKnight
Yeah I was mainly looking at the additional slots if you use the MM+ER+SoS setup. The healer could still be a discord hero (just cause with your heroes and physical char you should have a condition and hex) so if the hero has no healing to do they can throw some extra damage.
Then most utilities can be put on extra discord characters or whatever fancies your characters. My problem is even running an orders character (when you really only have like 2 physicals) don't really add on more damage than running some extra discord heroes who can bring more utilities.
I will most likely make a half discord half balanced hero build and see if it outperforms my boring old 6 discord group.
Then most utilities can be put on extra discord characters or whatever fancies your characters. My problem is even running an orders character (when you really only have like 2 physicals) don't really add on more damage than running some extra discord heroes who can bring more utilities.
I will most likely make a half discord half balanced hero build and see if it outperforms my boring old 6 discord group.
Arrogant Bastard
Well if you are using physicals and you have SoH, Splinter, MoP, Barbs, and Orders, you will be killing stuff way faster than discord could ever do.
MercenaryKnight
Well the main problem is you can't really run a ton of physical heroes. I also usually only do pve with my paragon so it's not like I would have the high dps of a w/d or msdb sin. Melee hero ai horribly fails for the most part as well. Can't switch targets or they keep running back and forth.
So for the most part it ends up being a ton of buffers and 1-2 physical human players if your lucky. I was considering maybe trying to make some beastmaster r/p spear chuckers for physical heroes. But I still have a feeling they won't be doing great damage.
So my main thing was still running physical buffers besides maybe the orders and soh since i'd be throwing spears and then the discords will just be additional. Since you can still run 2 discord heroes with the same buffs you'd need anyway.
I just wish we could actually run w/d, d/x or moebius assassin heroes and they could pump out the same damage as a human.
So for the most part it ends up being a ton of buffers and 1-2 physical human players if your lucky. I was considering maybe trying to make some beastmaster r/p spear chuckers for physical heroes. But I still have a feeling they won't be doing great damage.
So my main thing was still running physical buffers besides maybe the orders and soh since i'd be throwing spears and then the discords will just be additional. Since you can still run 2 discord heroes with the same buffs you'd need anyway.
I just wish we could actually run w/d, d/x or moebius assassin heroes and they could pump out the same damage as a human.
Arrogant Bastard
I didn't mean AI physicals.
2 players dealing physical damage with all those buffs will kill very fast.
2 players dealing physical damage with all those buffs will kill very fast.
MercenaryKnight
Yeah that would be best if you had 2 physical humans who can dish out good damage. I usually run with a mesmer friend and I title hunt on my paragon. So it's unfortunately not that good for me but if others are doing pve with physical humans it'd be a great team build.
I will most likely focus on a split between like discord and arkfenway since I would have a caster friend and I would just run imbagon for defense.
My problem is currently as I try to think about stuff a pure discordway team (if ran with a spirit spammer human and an ap caller) may be some of the highest damage.
Although I have concerns about speeding it up (since I hate having to wait for death nova even though it does dish out 100 damage and is great). My one attempt would be to get rid of a "dedicated mm" and no death nova then just throw shambling horrors on 4 of the 6 necros (healers wouldn't have it).
I love the damage that death nova adds, but a lot of the time it can be problematic trying to run across or aggro a group without minions. Also, if there is no more minion bomber spamming death nova he could basically be a discord protector. Spamming protective spirit, aegis, spirit bond and soa stuff. Which would basically be an er hero but with the extra damage from discord.
I will most likely focus on a split between like discord and arkfenway since I would have a caster friend and I would just run imbagon for defense.
My problem is currently as I try to think about stuff a pure discordway team (if ran with a spirit spammer human and an ap caller) may be some of the highest damage.
Although I have concerns about speeding it up (since I hate having to wait for death nova even though it does dish out 100 damage and is great). My one attempt would be to get rid of a "dedicated mm" and no death nova then just throw shambling horrors on 4 of the 6 necros (healers wouldn't have it).
I love the damage that death nova adds, but a lot of the time it can be problematic trying to run across or aggro a group without minions. Also, if there is no more minion bomber spamming death nova he could basically be a discord protector. Spamming protective spirit, aegis, spirit bond and soa stuff. Which would basically be an er hero but with the extra damage from discord.
Bobby2
Jora deserves playtime!
Scythe version
WE
Power Attack
Vic Sweep
Dis Strike
Dis Blow
BoA
Rush (micro)
Res sig
Sword/axe version
WE
Power Attack
Savage/Dismember
Dis Strike/Ago
Dis Blow
BoA
Storm Djinn's Haste @3
Res sig
Slap on SoH and/or GDW and gooooooooo!
OK so it's for fun and epicness. But at least somewhat effective.
Scythe version
WE
Power Attack
Vic Sweep
Dis Strike
Dis Blow
BoA
Rush (micro)
Res sig
Sword/axe version
WE
Power Attack
Savage/Dismember
Dis Strike/Ago
Dis Blow
BoA
Storm Djinn's Haste @3
Res sig
Slap on SoH and/or GDW and gooooooooo!
OK so it's for fun and epicness. But at least somewhat effective.
tlee
for PVE, i usually make all my heroes the same class... my main is a warrior.
I've made them all into ranger and warriors(using warrior henchies too) and i can run through the game pretty easy..
For all warriors(all swords equipped with hundred blades), I would me a W/N with well of blood and power using axe... With 5-6 warriors jumping 1 mob and then cast well of power.. repeat it with WOB.. killing mobs was super quick
For rangers, I was a W/R, of course... Everyone equipped with max bows... half were equiped with barrage and half with poison arrow/ignite arrow and some others.. Pretty cool..
I tried all mesmer once and it was cool too, but not as effective since mesmers are usually interrupters/drainers..
I've made them all into ranger and warriors(using warrior henchies too) and i can run through the game pretty easy..
For all warriors(all swords equipped with hundred blades), I would me a W/N with well of blood and power using axe... With 5-6 warriors jumping 1 mob and then cast well of power.. repeat it with WOB.. killing mobs was super quick
For rangers, I was a W/R, of course... Everyone equipped with max bows... half were equiped with barrage and half with poison arrow/ignite arrow and some others.. Pretty cool..
I tried all mesmer once and it was cool too, but not as effective since mesmers are usually interrupters/drainers..
FoxBat
I'd think of it more as "what the heck are your henchmen doing." They all more or less suck at doing damage, so I usually take 2 warriors and 2 monks. That's enough for me to play around with SoH and Dwarf Weapon to get something out of the henches, while heroes do the nec or rit thing.
HigherMinion
Well I play as a Mark of Pain nuker; not your discord caller twoddle 
My heroes are *generally* as followed:
E/Mo hero
Infuse, Prot Spirit, Spirit Bond, Reversal of Fortune, Shield Guardian, Aegis, Aura of Rest, Ether Renewal.
N/P Fail Back Minion Bomber
Aura Of The Lich, Animate Bone Minions, Death Nova, Putrid Bile, Fall Back, We Shall Return, Masochism, SoLS.
N/Rt OoV/Weapon
Order Of The Vampire, Mark Of Fury, Well Of Blood/Strip Enchantment(depends), Nightmare, splinter and Warmonger weapons, SoLS, Flesh of My Flesh.
My heroes are *generally* as followed:E/Mo hero
Infuse, Prot Spirit, Spirit Bond, Reversal of Fortune, Shield Guardian, Aegis, Aura of Rest, Ether Renewal.
N/P Fail Back Minion Bomber
Aura Of The Lich, Animate Bone Minions, Death Nova, Putrid Bile, Fall Back, We Shall Return, Masochism, SoLS.
N/Rt OoV/Weapon
Order Of The Vampire, Mark Of Fury, Well Of Blood/Strip Enchantment(depends), Nightmare, splinter and Warmonger weapons, SoLS, Flesh of My Flesh.
Lusciious
Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion
My heroes are *generally* as followed:E/Mo hero
Infuse, Prot Spirit, Spirit Bond, Reversal of Fortune, Shield Guardian, Aegis, Aura of Rest, Ether Renewal.
N/P Fail Back Minion Bomber
Aura Of The Lich, Animate Bone Minions, Death Nova, Putrid Bile, Fall Back, We Shall Return, Masochism, SoLS.
N/Rt OoV/Weapon
Order Of The Vampire, Mark Of Fury, Well Of Blood/Strip Enchantment(depends), Nightmare, splinter and Warmonger weapons, SoLS, Flesh of My Flesh. similar to what i use .
i use a SoS hybrid (with heals) instead . might swap it for another MM .
how are your MM builds ?
HigherMinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusciious
similar to what i use .
i use a SoS hybrid (with heals) instead . might swap it for another MM .
how are your MM builds ? Do you mean if they are any good or not? If they weren't, I wouldn't be using them ;-) I used to use OoU in place of AotL, but it makes raising minions so much faster with AotL.
i use a SoS hybrid (with heals) instead . might swap it for another MM .
how are your MM builds ? Do you mean if they are any good or not? If they weren't, I wouldn't be using them ;-) I used to use OoU in place of AotL, but it makes raising minions so much faster with AotL.
Popeye1906
I ran with Discoway a lot, but spamming 1234 as a conditions ranger to fuel discord got boring.
I vanquished Most of proph 4 man areas playing a SoS ranger with Vekk as a searing flame spammer with ward and healing E/M, Gwen as a domination/illusion mesmer and Livia as playmate of the... OUPS!! i ment N/Rt healer.
Only hard part was the grawl shamans with their heal spamming, but if there was less then 2 of them it was not much of a problem.
When i got to the 6 man area i went with a 2 discord ( Livia as MM Rt healer, MoW as curse doscord Necro) and a para hero with Anthem of flame, They're on fire and Blazing Finale. Everything is always burning and the whole team takes way less dmg.
For the south shiverpeaks, im gonna try to go as conjure fire barrage, with a modified version of my para and a fire ele hero with mark of Rodgort.
I there is 1 thing i learned in my 3 year of reading GURU, its that you gotta synergize your team build, and, no matter how crappy that team build can be, it will always be better then a crappy team build that dont synergize.
As for the part where your warrior hero runs around like a headless chicken when you switch target, try locking him on it before selecting another minion wannabe.
I vanquished Most of proph 4 man areas playing a SoS ranger with Vekk as a searing flame spammer with ward and healing E/M, Gwen as a domination/illusion mesmer and Livia as playmate of the... OUPS!! i ment N/Rt healer.
Only hard part was the grawl shamans with their heal spamming, but if there was less then 2 of them it was not much of a problem.
When i got to the 6 man area i went with a 2 discord ( Livia as MM Rt healer, MoW as curse doscord Necro) and a para hero with Anthem of flame, They're on fire and Blazing Finale. Everything is always burning and the whole team takes way less dmg.
For the south shiverpeaks, im gonna try to go as conjure fire barrage, with a modified version of my para and a fire ele hero with mark of Rodgort.
I there is 1 thing i learned in my 3 year of reading GURU, its that you gotta synergize your team build, and, no matter how crappy that team build can be, it will always be better then a crappy team build that dont synergize.
As for the part where your warrior hero runs around like a headless chicken when you switch target, try locking him on it before selecting another minion wannabe.
Lusciious
that extra point in DM don't really matter huh ? i'll try it now 
i find that in enchant removal heavy areas, when ER gets stripped, vekk doesn't recast it even though recharge is already over and he has more than enough energy . he uses another skill or 2 before casting ER .
how do you use your n/a mop nuker ? do you cast AP at the start of the match or before he's about to die ?
is this orders build better ?
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:D/N_...Orders_Dervish
i find that in enchant removal heavy areas, when ER gets stripped, vekk doesn't recast it even though recharge is already over and he has more than enough energy . he uses another skill or 2 before casting ER .
how do you use your n/a mop nuker ? do you cast AP at the start of the match or before he's about to die ?
is this orders build better ?
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:D/N_...Orders_Dervish
HigherMinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusciious
that extra point in DM don't really matter huh ? i'll try it now
i find that in enchant removal heavy areas, when ER gets stripped, vekk doesn't recast it even though recharge is already over and he has more than enough energy . he uses another skill or 2 before casting ER .
how do you use your n/a mop nuker ? do you cast AP at the start of the match or before he's about to die ?
is this orders build better ?
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:D/N_...Orders_Dervish When using MoP as the primary source of damage, you Cast in this general order:
MoP, Rigor if the foe blocks, Barbs.
Sometimes you start with Reckless, sometimes MoP is useless therefore you cast Barbs first, etc.
That Orders build is pretty rubbish compared to a N/Rt one with heals. It was "good" because Vow of piety healed for quite alot; but now it's a stance, and it does bugger all for your team.
Also the extra 4 points in Blood are noticeable in damage/life gain.
Yeah, Vekk will cast a few before ER; it's annoying but it generally still works fine, if you can kill fast enough.
i find that in enchant removal heavy areas, when ER gets stripped, vekk doesn't recast it even though recharge is already over and he has more than enough energy . he uses another skill or 2 before casting ER .
how do you use your n/a mop nuker ? do you cast AP at the start of the match or before he's about to die ?
is this orders build better ?
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:D/N_...Orders_Dervish When using MoP as the primary source of damage, you Cast in this general order:
MoP, Rigor if the foe blocks, Barbs.
Sometimes you start with Reckless, sometimes MoP is useless therefore you cast Barbs first, etc.
That Orders build is pretty rubbish compared to a N/Rt one with heals. It was "good" because Vow of piety healed for quite alot; but now it's a stance, and it does bugger all for your team.
Also the extra 4 points in Blood are noticeable in damage/life gain.
Yeah, Vekk will cast a few before ER; it's annoying but it generally still works fine, if you can kill fast enough.
Lusciious
You mean great .
When do you cast AP ? When the foe is at 30% or at 50% ? or lower ? higher maybe ?
I cast mine at the start of the match . I dont like having to try cast AP and a spike on the foe caused me to not get AP in on time . then i have to find another foe to recharge my skills .
Anyway,
In low corpse areas, what do you swap your MM out for ?
Is there a OotV build somewhere on PvX ? Can't find one .
edit: AotL is freakishly fun .
Personally, my SoS rit does higher damage than 3 physicals buffed with OotV
and she heals with 14 restoration and buffs physicals with a 14 splinter weapon .
When do you cast AP ? When the foe is at 30% or at 50% ? or lower ? higher maybe ?
I cast mine at the start of the match . I dont like having to try cast AP and a spike on the foe caused me to not get AP in on time . then i have to find another foe to recharge my skills .
Anyway,
In low corpse areas, what do you swap your MM out for ?
Is there a OotV build somewhere on PvX ? Can't find one .
edit: AotL is freakishly fun .
Personally, my SoS rit does higher damage than 3 physicals buffed with OotV
and she heals with 14 restoration and buffs physicals with a 14 splinter weapon .
Lusciious
i used to . i got tired of constantly calling . and if you don't call, discord doesnt seem to work properly .
i'm using an AotL MM like you mentioned .
AotL, Rising Bile, Animate bone minions, death nova, masochism sp?, prot spirit, aegis, dwayna's sorrow.
Death magic 12+1+1
Soul reaping 8+1
Protection prayers 9
Healing prayers 5
Should i get a sup death rune ?
ER protter
Energy storage 12+1+1
Prot 12
same build as yours
and an SoS Hybrid
SoS, Painful bond, Spirit Siphon, life, protective was kaolai, spirit light, mend body and soul and splinter weapon.
Channeling 12+2
Restoration 12+1+1 or the otherway round. both works.
i'm using an AotL MM like you mentioned .
AotL, Rising Bile, Animate bone minions, death nova, masochism sp?, prot spirit, aegis, dwayna's sorrow.
Death magic 12+1+1
Soul reaping 8+1
Protection prayers 9
Healing prayers 5
Should i get a sup death rune ?
ER protter
Energy storage 12+1+1
Prot 12
same build as yours
and an SoS Hybrid
SoS, Painful bond, Spirit Siphon, life, protective was kaolai, spirit light, mend body and soul and splinter weapon.
Channeling 12+2
Restoration 12+1+1 or the otherway round. both works.
Daesu
Even though I try to customize each set of heroes to my character's build, here are some general ideas I have:
For a Dervish (Enchantment-philic):
Rt/Mo SoS, Splinter, SoH, Smite Hex, Smite Condition
N/Rt Fiend MM, curses, Enfeebling blood OR NMo OOV, BR, Enfeebling blood, Curse
E/Mo ER Protect, Enchantment heals, Dwayna's Sorrow
For an Imbagon (Shout-philic):
N/Mo Emphatic Removal, MM, Curse, Enfeebling Blood
P/Rt SoS, Spinter, Command, Anthem of Envy, Anthem of Disruption, Gfte
P/Mo Anthem of Fury, Motivation heals, SoH
For a Warrior or general physicals:
E/Mo ER Protect/Smite, SoH
Rt SoS, Splinter, some restore heals
N/Rt Aotl, MM, Curse/Enfeebling Blood or N/Rt SoGM, Communing offensive spirits, Curse/Enfeebling Blood
OR
Rt/N Ritual Lord, Communing Offensive/Defensive Spirits, Enfeebling blood OR P SoR Motigon
For a SoS Channeling SS Rit with Painful Bond (Spirit-philic):
Communing/Command Rit:
[build prof=Rt/P][Spirit Siphon][Disenchantment or Pain][Signet of Ghostly Might][Armor of Unfeeling][Anthem of Disruption][Shadowsong][Anguish][Flesh of My Flesh or Anthem of Weariness][/build]
Restoration Rit:
[build prof=Rt/?][Xinrae's Weapon][Weapon of Warding][Mend Body and Soul][Spirit Light][Flesh of My Flesh][Spirit Siphon][Protective Was Kaolai][Soothing Memories or Life][/build]
minion bomber MM:
[build prof=N/Mo][Aura of the Lich or Discord][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Putrid Bile][Enfeebling Blood or SoLS][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Resurrection Chant][/build]
For general casters (besides discordway):
NMo Aotl, MM, with Dwayna's Sorrow/Protect OR E/Mo ER Protect/Heal
NRt Restoration Healer + Curses/Enfeebling Blood
Rt SoS Spirit Spammer
For heroes that cannot use PvE skills, using minions become one of the most effective choices in general, so I like using a SoS Rit and a MM if possible. You should assume HM for these builds and these ideas are a combination of others and my own.
For a Dervish (Enchantment-philic):
Rt/Mo SoS, Splinter, SoH, Smite Hex, Smite Condition
N/Rt Fiend MM, curses, Enfeebling blood OR NMo OOV, BR, Enfeebling blood, Curse
E/Mo ER Protect, Enchantment heals, Dwayna's Sorrow
For an Imbagon (Shout-philic):
N/Mo Emphatic Removal, MM, Curse, Enfeebling Blood
P/Rt SoS, Spinter, Command, Anthem of Envy, Anthem of Disruption, Gfte
P/Mo Anthem of Fury, Motivation heals, SoH
For a Warrior or general physicals:
E/Mo ER Protect/Smite, SoH
Rt SoS, Splinter, some restore heals
N/Rt Aotl, MM, Curse/Enfeebling Blood or N/Rt SoGM, Communing offensive spirits, Curse/Enfeebling Blood
OR
Rt/N Ritual Lord, Communing Offensive/Defensive Spirits, Enfeebling blood OR P SoR Motigon
For a SoS Channeling SS Rit with Painful Bond (Spirit-philic):
Communing/Command Rit:
[build prof=Rt/P][Spirit Siphon][Disenchantment or Pain][Signet of Ghostly Might][Armor of Unfeeling][Anthem of Disruption][Shadowsong][Anguish][Flesh of My Flesh or Anthem of Weariness][/build]
Restoration Rit:
[build prof=Rt/?][Xinrae's Weapon][Weapon of Warding][Mend Body and Soul][Spirit Light][Flesh of My Flesh][Spirit Siphon][Protective Was Kaolai][Soothing Memories or Life][/build]
minion bomber MM:
[build prof=N/Mo][Aura of the Lich or Discord][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Putrid Bile][Enfeebling Blood or SoLS][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Resurrection Chant][/build]
For general casters (besides discordway):
NMo Aotl, MM, with Dwayna's Sorrow/Protect OR E/Mo ER Protect/Heal
NRt Restoration Healer + Curses/Enfeebling Blood
Rt SoS Spirit Spammer
For heroes that cannot use PvE skills, using minions become one of the most effective choices in general, so I like using a SoS Rit and a MM if possible. You should assume HM for these builds and these ideas are a combination of others and my own.
Lusciious
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Also, if this is for physicals, why bother with SoS? It creates 3 damage-dealing spirits that can't move. I don't find it practical in this setup.
How much more damage can you get from OotV ? 15 x 4 = 60 .
SoS on the other hand deals 30 x 3 - 90 . which can be increased to 50 x 3 by painful bond . Their damage is armour ignoring as well .
An SoS Rit can probably heal more than that blood of well + nightmare weapon .
I don't think you need that many weapon spells . I don't know how heroes cast weapon spells and who they prioritize . Splinter weapon is usually enough .
Okay you help your physicals by giving them mark of fury . that's something a rit cannot do .
You can strip an enchant, I have Rigor Mortis . I don't see a need for enchant removal when you have so many minions + 3 physicals + 90 armour ignoring damage . They die too fast . There's no point stripping fire attunement off an ele boss because you already know that bosses have insane HP / MP Regen / Pool . And PI finishes the job faster .
I don't see a need for ressurection skills because I don't plan on dying . Do you ?
So the only thing your OotV can do better than my Rit is buffing physicals with mark of fury . Oh and it's not a spammable skill with a 10 recharge . Since you're gonna buff them with additional damage, Mark of Fury is gonna take a longer time to recharge than compared to the time taken for a foe to die .
If it takes you less than 30 seconds to finish a group, take into consideration the time required to move on to the next group . I have no troubles keeping SoS up before i enter a any match . I like taking on mobs at one time so yeah .. Haven't died once yet .
As suggested, I might get a hex removal . I have enough prots from that ER Protter already . lol .
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I find that the MM is useful myself. The walls really help keep things out.|
an activation time of 2 seconds
thats how fast spirits attack . It's even better than discord once you get PB on the foe (usually bosses since they last longer) . Do correct me if i'm wrong .
Lusciious
Oh yeah .. casters with spears . forgot about that one .
The 2 rangers and 1 warrior hench i take along do not always have IAS on . True about the point where spirits are easily destructible but thats what minions are for, bodyblocking enemies so that no one gets to your spirits . I don't use consumables . Armour ignoring damage does not go through prots .. I didn't know that >.> Alright then . OotV wins I have 6/7 physicals . MoP Nuker + Spear ER Protter + Spear 20% enchant + Focus MM + Spear + Focus OotV + Spear + Focus 6 physicals = 1 monk, 2 rangers, 1 warrior 7 physicals = 1 human warrior, 2 physicals, 1 monk with spear . OotV would stack up to do a lot of damage . Thanks for helping me to realise that OotV is much better . I should try to make a build that uses OotV, Heals and Supports. When i make a good one, i'll post it here . edit: Should my MM and OotV Hybrid use a 20% enchant mod or a +30hp mod ? The only thing viable that i think would benefit from the 20% enchant mod are the prots on the MM . I want them to spam OotV as much as possible without me micro-ing therefore i don't want it to last for 60+ seconds ( 100+20% enchant) On OotV, a 20% mod would only increase it by 1 second. edit2: I have decided to go with +30 hp . once i change my MM's secondary from mo to something else e.g. paragon, the 20% enchant mod would become useless. Trader of Secrets
Yeah really, reading the first post reminds me why I avoid melee hero and hench because they spend most of their time running around because your target is changing.
Lusciious
That's why we use rangers (at least I do)
HigherMinion
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Originally Posted by Lusciious
That's why we use rangers (at least I do)
Yeah, and if you want a good ranger hero:
Incendiary Arrows, Rapid Fire, Comfort Animal- Lots of MoP triggers, especially if you take lots of 1/4 casts. OoV is alot more maintainable with that extra one second duration, believe it or not.
Lusciious
Incendiary arrow sounds good . However, it can be swapped with daze if needed yeah ? Daze + Volley ?
mage767
I don't use any of the crappy PvE meta that brainwashed everyone.
I customize my heroes to main prof and to area. My best hero team does 73k damage (its a modified physical way) at Master of Damage.
Crassus Praetor
Over what period of time?
Anything can do 73k damage if you leave it long enough 
Lusciious
A paragon might be a good substitute to an MM . A paragon with pet ?
MasterSasori
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Originally Posted by Lusciious
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edit: Should my MM and OotV Hybrid use a 20% enchant mod or a +30hp mod ? The only thing viable that i think would benefit from the 20% enchant mod are the prots on the MM . I want them to spam OotV as much as possible without me micro-ing therefore i don't want it to last for 60+ seconds ( 100+20% enchant)
The 20% enchant mod is very useful - Aegis, PS, and OoV. OoV's extra 1 second is actually pretty useful.