Better PUGing by improving your build in 7 steps

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qvtkc
Wilds Pathfinder
#81
Quote: Originally Posted by Xenomortis View Post Yes actually.
Savannah Heat, Searing Flames spam, Meteor Shower, Deep Freeze (+Maelstrom) etc.. - all threatening in HM and most are spammed in EotN.
These nukes can eat your henchmen alive unless you get some prots up or flag them apart. Individual humans, no matter how incompetent tend to be much more spread out than the AI and hence telling them to clump up into wards is a bit counter-productive. And of all those skills only SF has a recharge low enough for it to be used more than once in a battle. The rest of the "nukes" as you call them should be drawn out by the frontliners.

Quote: Originally Posted by Xenomortis View Post
Vekk The what now? First, I don't bring heroes in PUGs, and second, they are utterly brainless when it comes to preprotting.

glacialphoenix
glacialphoenix
Desert Nomad
#82
Quote: Originally Posted by qvtkc And of all those skills only SF has a recharge low enough for it to be used more than once in a battle. The rest of the "nukes" as you call them should be drawn out by the frontliners. But they don't necessarily need to use it more than once per battle. Enemies have boosted damage, movement and casting time. They also have more than one skill, and those skills are going to hit hard in HM. Perhaps less so on the higher armour characters, but your squishier characters are going to feel it, and feel it hard, especially if it's from a boss. If they all ball up together vs. say, Korshek the Immolated in HM, whoever's keeping the red bars up is going to have a pretty hard time of it. How fast can you heal everyone before the next nuke comes in? Also, what happens if there's a few of them on your case?

Also, to quote another post of yours:

Quote:
Of course, it takes a bit of organization to manipulate aggro correctly. That is a teamwide job in GW, unlike other similar games, but it's usually too hard for PUGs to do it. That too, and of course you can expect someone not to notice the fact that s/he's in a ward and run straight out of it into an incoming attack - or, in the case of the Diamondshard Mist wards in Dragrimmar, "Why am I bleeding?"
MasterSasori
MasterSasori
Desert Nomad
#85
Quote: Originally Posted by Daesu View Post It is not prejudice, it is already a well known FACT that primary rits make better spirit spammers than secondary rits and primary rits are abundant.

If you like to play the role of a spirit spammer, why not just play a primary rit? There is no need to be a E/Rt spirit spammer wannabe unless the person doesnt know how to play an Ele. People play the role of SS because SS rits may not always be available. And The Josip has given proof that the difference is not that great between two very common SS builds we see in PUGs. "Massacre" as 10% is clearly an overstatement unless you can prove otherwise using common PUG builds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qvtkc View Post
Damage in HM comes to a great deal from melee enemies. While imbagons are great, especially with the somewhat unorganized way most PUGs play, warders do provide more potential for damage decrease - as long as everyone stays in the ward. Also, while the +100 armor from SY! is great, blocking/blind/blurred protects against armor-ignoring damage as well.
Still, with most PUGs, I'd go with an imbagon. I disagree with the statement that the +armor from wards are as good as 24/7 SY the one third reduction and heal of TNTF. It just doesn't seem likely.

There is no need for blocking, blind, blurred if there is ample Enfeebling blood which every necro and their mother and stepmother takes.

Then you also need to consider that nukes could rape your team as well inside wards (Not just damage wise in which HM damage is still felt through wards). KD from MS, burning from Searing/Tenai, interrupt from maelstrom.
Master Ketsu
Master Ketsu
Desert Nomad
#89
My policy is to kick anyone from a team if they think I want them to ping so I can "Steal their build". From my own personal experience anyone who honestly believes they have discovered something the rest of the community doesn't know by now in a game as old as Guild wars is going to be bad 99% of the time, and average the other 1%. A hero is better than an idiot like that.
glacialphoenix
glacialphoenix
Desert Nomad
#90
Quote: Originally Posted by Master Ketsu My policy is to kick anyone from a team if they think I want them to ping so I can "Steal their build". I like your policy.

I've never understood that mentality myself. I mean, if I actually wanted to steal your build, I wouldn't ask you to ping... I'd just watch you ingame to see which skills you used.

Quote: Originally Posted by MasterSasori
There is no need for blocking, blind, blurred if there is ample Enfeebling blood which every necro and their mother and stepmother takes. I wish this was actually the case.

Of course, I also wish people had the common sense to run out of ROJ, but no. Which IMO is a pretty good reason against bringing anything more than maybe one ward in PUGs - they just won't notice it. If they don't notice ROJ right on them... they won't notice a ward.
MasterSasori
MasterSasori
Desert Nomad
#91
Quote: Originally Posted by Daesu View Post Everybody has been saying that primary rits are abundant including yourself. Furthermore, "The Josip" was wrong to claim that the damage difference between a primary rit and a secondary rit is only 1% when other posters (e.g. "Arrogant Bastard" page 3 post #46 on this thread) on this thread has shown it to be about 10%. On top of that, "The Josip" totally ignored the additional tanking capabilities of spirits with higher level, armor, duration, armor of unfeeling, and spawning power from primary rits. His arguments were flawed from the start.

For a popular class like rits, EVEN if "The Jossip" is right that ERt SS is only 1% inferior (which it is not), it is going to be a hard sell for you to convince everyone why your ERt spirit spammer wannabe should be used instead of the other available primary rits spirit spammers out there. Why even lose the 1% when I dont need to? And even if there are no available primary rits, I would still prefer to bring a rit hero and micro her, considering both offense and defense advantages over the pug ERt. Excuse me, misquoted Arrogant Bastard. Yes I was referring to the 10% difference that Arrogant Bastard had posted.

My argument is not why I would take this or that in my party. I agree with what you stated. I do however, disagree that a 10% is a "massacre" which it is not.


Quote: Originally Posted by glacialphoenix View Post
I wish this was actually the case.

Of course, I also wish people had the common sense to run out of ROJ, but no. Which IMO is a pretty good reason against bringing anything more than maybe one ward in PUGs - they just won't notice it. If they don't notice ROJ right on them... they won't notice a ward. If pugs don't notice wards, how would bringing even ONE useful? You basically have to run to them to place it on them to help them against AoE.
ShivaTwoDelta
ShivaTwoDelta
Academy Page
#92
Quote: Originally Posted by Master Ketsu View Post A hero is better than an idiot like that. True, very true, but hero's also make the game extremely boring.

OP and I play GW for over 4 years together and we can easely complete most things if we both add 3 heros. On my ele I invested over 120K on runes alone for heros, lol. I know in most cases we'll do it fast and good with 6 heros, my friend being a warrior going in first and me with the caster heros staying at a safe distance. But like I said, after a few years, this gets boring and I long for teamplay. I want to feel part of a team of people who play with me. Especially when I'm monk. Nothing more boring than healing Koss.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori View Post
Then you also need to consider that nukes could rape your team as well inside wards (Not just damage wise in which HM damage is still felt through wards). KD from MS, burning from Searing/Tenai, interrupt from maelstrom. Any decent team should never let an enemy caster allow to complete the casting of Meteor Shower.
As for Searing Flame spamming Ruby Djinns, I'd dare to say that the ruby should be your primary target when engaging. For as far as I know the djinn groups are never assisted by a monk, so there you go.

What wards vs imba concerns. I don't get the anti wards attitude here. It's not just about casting a ward and stand in it like a zombie.
I could list a couple things that gonna make a para useless as well, but I'll save us the debate. No matter what you go with, if you have players with a brain, you'll make it either way.
bj91x
bj91x
Lion's Arch Merchant
#94
Quote: Originally Posted by qvtkc View Post Step 3: Remove rez if you are a monk
I don't even intend to explain this one. I couldn't disagree with this more. When I'm playing with h/h, I don't bring a res skill. There's no need to. Things go as I planned pretty much every time and in case something goes wrong, my 3 heroes have res skills. However, when I PUG, I bring Rebirth if I don't need to use my 2ndary profession (with the exception of missions where running then rebirthing isn't much of an option). This is because PUG is unpredictable and I don't know if we're going to encounter a wipe situation.

Healers don't need 8 skills to heal effectively, just like DPS players don't need 8 skills to DPS effectively. Being a veteran, I know ahead of time when things will go sour. Bringing Rebirth makes it that much easier to res my teammates when I'm one of the only players to have run to safety preventing a full wipe. I'm I'm a healer, I'm usually the farthest from danger and it's much easier to run to safety since I'm the farthest from the enemies.

My heroes follow a similar rule. All my non-healer heroes bring res skills that can be used in battle. All my healers bring Rebirth. This is because of the reason I stated above; Healers are the farthest from the enemies and the easiest to run to prevent full wipe when things go bad.
HigherMinion
HigherMinion
Forge Runner
#95
Quote: Originally Posted by bj91x View Post
I couldn't disagree with this more. When I'm playing with h/h, I don't bring a res skill. There's no need to. Things go as I planned pretty much every time and in case something goes wrong, my 3 heroes have res skills. However, when I PUG, I bring Rebirth if I don't need to use my 2ndary profession (with the exception of missions where running then rebirthing isn't much of an option). This is because PUG is unpredictable and I don't know if we're going to encounter a wipe situation. You completely agree, but you bring Rebirth?

This is the point the OP is making. I'm going to assume you're a monk, or your post would be confusing and pointless. A physical or Rit will generally be able to get a Res on their bar without making the team's survivability suffer.

Rebirth is the worst resurrection skill in the game, due to the depletion of energy after casting; and long casting time anyway. Resurrect is also terrible because you return with only 25% health and no energy to keep safe.
[Renew Life, Restore life, Resurrection Chant, Flesh of My Flesh, signet of return] These would be the most optimal on a PUG team; a warrior can fit them in, a paragon or Ritualist. Plenty of space not to need one on a monk.
glacialphoenix
glacialphoenix
Desert Nomad
#96
Quote: Originally Posted by HigherMinion
You completely agree, but you bring Rebirth? I think he said he disagreed.

That being said, Rebirth is a last-ditch resort, and he's got a point in that PUGs are unpredictable and can have near-wipe situations. If the other monk's got UA, fine. If the physicals or the ritualists actually bother to bring a flippin' rez, fine. All too frequently, they don't; or sometimes, they DO bring a rez and then proceed to aggro the hell out of everything. If only the two monks are left standing, there's a bunch of very angry monsters near the corpses, and one of them is running Resurrection Chant and the other Rebirth, I'd be thankful that the other one brought Rebirth, because of the fact that it teleports the guy to you.

Of course, if we're talking about in-battle rezzes, Rebirth is the single worst idea ever.

It works as a last-ditch resort to save your party from dying in the middle of a long mission; it shouldn't have to work as more than that. And I guess it depends on how much you expect someone in your group to die in an annoyingly hard-to-reach place.
C
Chthon
Grotto Attendant
#98
Quote: Originally Posted by ShivaTwoDelta View Post
Any decent team should never let an enemy caster allow to complete the casting of Meteor Shower.
As for Searing Flame spamming Ruby Djinns, I'd dare to say that the ruby should be your primary target when engaging. For as far as I know the djinn groups are never assisted by a monk, so there you go. 1. Pretty sure there's some mixed Djinn/Summit mobs in Forgewight where the Djinn have monk backup. For that matter, they're often paired with Flowstone Elementals, whose Savannah Heat is even more of a threat for H+H/stupid people.

2. There's a number of places in UW and Perdition rock where the number of monsters with Meteor Shower is going to exceed the number of interrupts your team can reasonably carry. Same is true for Searing Flames (Blisterbark's mob), Deep Freeze (multiple places, Talus Chute HM probably has the most in 1 spot), and most other "heavy nukes" as well. While you should be disrupting these skills when you can, you need to accept that you will get hit with them sometimes, and plan accordingly.

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Regarding rebirth:

This is a skill of very limited usefulness. You can use it for near-wipe recovery if someone managed to run away, and the team's bodies are camped by monsters. However, rez scroll now offers the same functionality. How often are you going to be the last person standing, and find your teammates camped badly enough you need the 1.2 aggro radius teleport, but not so badly that a 1.0 aggro radius teleport won't do?
(I should probably also add that I used to use it for a battle rez on a necro (with a low energy set) waaay back in Prophecies back when none of the other rezzes would pop you up "ready to go," so the safety of the teleport outweighed the bad numbers upon rez.)

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Regarding Spirit Spam:

Primary Ritualists are just better. This should be a no-brainer. Runes mean more health/armor/damage on the spirits. Spawning means more health on the spirits and some available skills that synergize with spirits. The only other class whose primary offers anything directly synergistic with spirits is Ranger. Ele and Necro can run more energy-intensive builds, but spirit spam generally doesn't require more energy than Siphon provides.