Better PUGing by improving your build in 7 steps
Daesu
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
After this long-winded discussion, you are still adamant that PUGs cannot succeed? If anyone is the narrow-minded one here, it is you. And, er, the guy that called me narrow-minded 
Learn to read.
Just because pugs may succeed doesn't imply that they are guaranteed to succeed.
Learn to read.Just because pugs may succeed doesn't imply that they are guaranteed to succeed.
LazyLink
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Originally Posted by Daesu
Learn to read.
Just because pugs may succeed doesn't imply that they are guaranteed to succeed. no one is guaranteed to succeed, thats a moot point
Just because pugs may succeed doesn't imply that they are guaranteed to succeed. no one is guaranteed to succeed, thats a moot point
Daesu
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Originally Posted by LazyLink
no one is guaranteed to succeed, thats a moot point
With the right players in my full guild/alliance team and proper team build, we can guarantee success. Also I can guarantee successes with most missions using my heroes build.
You can never ever have that kind of assurance with a true PUG.
You can never ever have that kind of assurance with a true PUG.
HigherMinion
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Originally Posted by Daesu
With the right players in my full guild/alliance team and proper team build, we can guarantee success. Also I can guarantee successes with most missions using my heroes build.
You can never ever have that kind of assurance with a true PUG. That's because you pay no bloody attention! This is really irritating now. If you don't want to fail there's an easy way out, organisation. Try being a patient leader of the next ZM, and see how much easier it is when you can make your own team of pugs.
Guildies and alliance folk can fail too. They are as good as pugs if you know how to be patient and fix builds. They can also be PvX goons who run the same as everyone, the people who normally use discord to do everything and are lost in a real team. It's not just PUGs.
You can never ever have that kind of assurance with a true PUG. That's because you pay no bloody attention! This is really irritating now. If you don't want to fail there's an easy way out, organisation. Try being a patient leader of the next ZM, and see how much easier it is when you can make your own team of pugs.
Guildies and alliance folk can fail too. They are as good as pugs if you know how to be patient and fix builds. They can also be PvX goons who run the same as everyone, the people who normally use discord to do everything and are lost in a real team. It's not just PUGs.
Sankt Hallvard
There's another point that most of you seem to miss. By getting "better pugging" as per thread title you can achieve this by lowering your expectations rather than making strict demands on the pug.
IMO, when you join a pug you should embrace the higher risk that comes with playing with unknown builds and players. Try to adapt your playing to subpar builds/players, you will learn more and you will likely have a lot more fun. (Which incidentally playing games is all about)
When having a set goal like the ZM you might put more priority in actually completing the objective in a short amount of time but that also means you should seek other options before resorting to a pug, ask friends, ask alliance, run heroes.
IMO it all boils down to this: Do you want to be efficient and farm your titles or do you want to play and have fun?
IMO, when you join a pug you should embrace the higher risk that comes with playing with unknown builds and players. Try to adapt your playing to subpar builds/players, you will learn more and you will likely have a lot more fun. (Which incidentally playing games is all about)
When having a set goal like the ZM you might put more priority in actually completing the objective in a short amount of time but that also means you should seek other options before resorting to a pug, ask friends, ask alliance, run heroes.
IMO it all boils down to this: Do you want to be efficient and farm your titles or do you want to play and have fun?
HigherMinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard
There's another point that most of you seem to miss. By getting "better pugging" as per thread title you can achieve this by lowering your expectations rather than making strict demands on the pug.
IMO, when you join a pug you should embrace the higher risk that comes with playing with unknown builds and players. Try to adapt your playing to subpar builds/players, you will learn more and you will likely have a lot more fun. (Which incidentally playing games is all about)
When having a set goal like the ZM you might put more priority in actually completing the objective in a short amount of time but that also means you should seek other options before resorting to a pug, ask friends, ask alliance, run heroes.
IMO it all boils down to this: Do you want to be efficient and farm your titles or do you want to play and have fun? The good thing about ZM's and ZB's is there is always a large demographic of players and you can find your ideal team in there. Be it physway or caster cluster. It's not just about efficiency for me, it's paranoia that if some skills aren't changed, then these 20 minutes will be wasted.
IMO, when you join a pug you should embrace the higher risk that comes with playing with unknown builds and players. Try to adapt your playing to subpar builds/players, you will learn more and you will likely have a lot more fun. (Which incidentally playing games is all about)
When having a set goal like the ZM you might put more priority in actually completing the objective in a short amount of time but that also means you should seek other options before resorting to a pug, ask friends, ask alliance, run heroes.
IMO it all boils down to this: Do you want to be efficient and farm your titles or do you want to play and have fun? The good thing about ZM's and ZB's is there is always a large demographic of players and you can find your ideal team in there. Be it physway or caster cluster. It's not just about efficiency for me, it's paranoia that if some skills aren't changed, then these 20 minutes will be wasted.
maxxfury
I see two distinct versions of the 'pug'
1>you and 7 randoms..
2>you with people you know for the core then filling up with randoms.
The first been the typical pug, which requires you to usually suck it up and deal with who your with and hope for the best! The second (as used by [Thay] in this example?) you cover the bases with trusted people to make a solid stable core then fill the other less vital spots with pugs that have a much better chance% in general of no failing..
Imo these are two pretty different animals, and i can say i prefer the 2nd way more, and thats how i usually do it it possible, be it balanced, physway, or a caster ball. Its usually almost guaranteed that you can cover the skills, or lack of skills from the randoms, and push through a pretty quick clear of the zone/mish....tho this usually doesn't feel like a pug at all.
the first fully 'random' version can be a major bitch at times :P but meh, suck it up, you know what your getting into really..some good, some bad, some idiots, some amazing people you can flist
1>you and 7 randoms..
2>you with people you know for the core then filling up with randoms.
The first been the typical pug, which requires you to usually suck it up and deal with who your with and hope for the best! The second (as used by [Thay] in this example?) you cover the bases with trusted people to make a solid stable core then fill the other less vital spots with pugs that have a much better chance% in general of no failing..
Imo these are two pretty different animals, and i can say i prefer the 2nd way more, and thats how i usually do it it possible, be it balanced, physway, or a caster ball. Its usually almost guaranteed that you can cover the skills, or lack of skills from the randoms, and push through a pretty quick clear of the zone/mish....tho this usually doesn't feel like a pug at all.
the first fully 'random' version can be a major bitch at times :P but meh, suck it up, you know what your getting into really..some good, some bad, some idiots, some amazing people you can flist
Daesu
Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion
That's because you pay no bloody attention! This is really irritating now. If you don't want to fail there's an easy way out, organisation. Try being a patient leader of the next ZM, and see how much easier it is when you can make your own team of pugs.
Guildies and alliance folk can fail too. They are as good as pugs if you know how to be patient and fix builds. They can also be PvX goons who run the same as everyone, the people who normally use discord to do everything and are lost in a real team. It's not just PUGs. I dont know why you keep replying the same rubbish over and over without even reading what I said. Stop replying to my posts if you dont want to read them.
If I can get certain players from my guild/alliance to form a guild/alliance team, I know the mission is going to succeed because they are trustworthy. PUGs are not trustworthy simply because they are random strangers! And random strangers have a higher chance of leaving mid mission/going afk/etc. than people I trust. Why are you even arguing with me about that?
Guildies and alliance folk can fail too. They are as good as pugs if you know how to be patient and fix builds. They can also be PvX goons who run the same as everyone, the people who normally use discord to do everything and are lost in a real team. It's not just PUGs. I dont know why you keep replying the same rubbish over and over without even reading what I said. Stop replying to my posts if you dont want to read them.
If I can get certain players from my guild/alliance to form a guild/alliance team, I know the mission is going to succeed because they are trustworthy. PUGs are not trustworthy simply because they are random strangers! And random strangers have a higher chance of leaving mid mission/going afk/etc. than people I trust. Why are you even arguing with me about that?
HigherMinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu
I dont know why you keep replying the same rubbish over and over without even reading what I said. Stop replying to my posts if you dont want to read them.
If I can get certain players from my guild/alliance to form a guild/alliance team, I know the mission is going to succeed because they are trustworthy. PUGs are not trustworthy simply because they are random strangers! And random strangers have a higher chance of leaving mid mission/going afk/etc. than people I trust. Why are you even arguing with me about that? I think this seems more like a misunderstanding of probability. If you don't have all the facts, you ask questions before you can draw a proper conclusion as to wether people won't have time or suffer from sudden disconnects(Which, by the way, even someone you know could suffer from.)
All you have to do is ask. If they answer yes, kick them. And the silly thing is, even a guildie or ally could do the same.
Also, allies are pretty much PUGs too, seeing as you won't play with them ALL that often.
If I can get certain players from my guild/alliance to form a guild/alliance team, I know the mission is going to succeed because they are trustworthy. PUGs are not trustworthy simply because they are random strangers! And random strangers have a higher chance of leaving mid mission/going afk/etc. than people I trust. Why are you even arguing with me about that? I think this seems more like a misunderstanding of probability. If you don't have all the facts, you ask questions before you can draw a proper conclusion as to wether people won't have time or suffer from sudden disconnects(Which, by the way, even someone you know could suffer from.)
All you have to do is ask. If they answer yes, kick them. And the silly thing is, even a guildie or ally could do the same.
Also, allies are pretty much PUGs too, seeing as you won't play with them ALL that often.
Improvavel
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I PuG and if I'm running SoS then Splinter is stapled to my bar. If you were teamed with me I'd be part of your PuG. So I just proved you wrong and it's relevant to this discussion. It would also make the comparison between a Rt/* and E/Rt a no brainer in favor of the former by a pretty sizable margin. Sure the Ele can go SoGM if a Rit is already present in a team but if there is a remote opportunity for me to pick up a second Rit to run SoGM the Ele is the odd man out. This isn't even about the E/Rt specifically but anyone going */Rt.
Rits aren't as rare as they used to be. It's no longer an anomaly to have multiple Rits on a team. Unless you can be in 100 places at once you cannot be absolutely 100% certain the team composition of each and every single PuG. Going by a single individuals experience and views of what goes on in PuGs is just a single, "Point of View". You cannot and will not speak for everyone or anyone besides yourselves.
So enough of this "Most PuGs do this but don't do that" language. It's all based on ones perception of his/her gaming experience and should not be indicative of the norm. Quite frankly we don't know what other people do in their own time at their own place.
PS. Virtually every R/Rt and RT/R doing FoWSC in a PuG has Splinter on their bar in the current meta.
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feeling the mesmer <3Quote:
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Originally Posted by ElnoreVarda
Id say that good means "a player I want in my party". Obviously the definition of good will matter slightly from person to person.
A good player might not always be the most "technically proficient player" but be really nice and get the job done...so for sure id take someone who is good and nice to be around over someone who has a godly apm and micro skills, but is a complete go red engine'er!
HigherMinion
Basically, Varda, you summed up perfectly what I was rushingly trying to explain.
Cheers. qvtkc I am a relatively new player (few months now) and really enjoy the game. I liked the initial post and the intention. Thx for the tips. It’s sad that the discussions turns into “what build is best/ better” etc I Pug the z miss (HM) I do and my experience is surprisingly good. Thx to all the good guys out there. All z miss I did so far, could be completed even with not-perfect builds. The “common sense” from the initial post + half decent communication seems to be far more important than perfect builds. My exp is that missions fail when ppl leave, go afk, DC ... I run a pretty “HM unfriendly” Searing Flames Fire Nuke/ Burning build (fire skills only, Gl Less Eng, 2 enchantments + Intensity, 2 weapon sets: enchanting/ fight). And yes all my armor is dyed red ;-) I might change the build later when I have access to more PvE skills. However, that’s what I have for now and I also like the “role play aspect” of it. I am just not a fan of the Necro “look and feel”, but hey, that’s just me … and while Im on it, the Ele dance is pathetic. Normally I can find a group within a few minutes. In yesterdays z miss “Thirsty River” we had 2 ppl (out of 6 I think) running “fire/ burn builds” (no EotN skills) and the miss still went through with no probs. |
About the Searing Flames build, sure it might be called "HM unfriendly" but not so much if you team up with other SF eles. I monked in a team including three SF nukers a couple of days ago, and we cut - or should I say, burned - through the mission with such a speed that people started asking if this really was HM we were playing.Of course that's what happens when you take some time to set up a good team
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I'd be curious to see your WoH hybrid with AoS on it. The picture that forms in my mind has 9 skills, and I'm wondering what you drop.|
Originally Posted by Dont Cause Drama
Omg i cried a little. So many posers in every other aspect of guildwars, why did they have to fake being a Rit. Your a player after my own heart <3
-Drama I love you too man
Chthon |
1. WoH
2. Spot Heal #2
3. PS
4. Aegis
5. Seed of Life (or SoA)
6. Hex Removal
7. Condition Removal
8. Selfless Spirit
9. AoS
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard
There's another point that most of you seem to miss. By getting "better pugging" as per thread title you can achieve this by lowering your expectations rather than making strict demands on the pug.IMO, when you join a pug you should embrace the higher risk that comes with playing with unknown builds and players. Try to adapt your playing to subpar builds/players, you will learn more and you will likely have a lot more fun. (Which incidentally playing games is all about) The thought of lowering my expectations simply so that I don't "feel" that a bad PUG is bad strikes me as artificial and circular. I might however join a bad PUG for other reason. For example, sometimes I join "7/8 GLF healer" PUGs to hone my skills on a team that's going to put a lot of pressure on me as a healer.
Quote: Originally Posted by Daesu
Yes, I would make sure to ask if anyone has any intension to sabotage the team by leaving or disconnect or leeroy or afk or misleading us with fake build, before entering mission. That should solve all pug problems once and for all. Right....
While such a direct approach rarely works, you can learn enough to make reasonably accurate predictions by asking people to ping and engaging in conversation in town. Most people who display behavior problems in the field also display behavior problems in town. You just have to look.
While such a direct approach rarely works, you can learn enough to make reasonably accurate predictions by asking people to ping and engaging in conversation in town. Most people who display behavior problems in the field also display behavior problems in town. You just have to look.Quote:
How experienced a player is does not necessarily mean he wont be a pain. May be his mom would call him to go eat dinner and he would have to afk there and then. It has happened before.
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about PUGs, especially in PvE. But when I lead a PUG I feel I have some sort of responsibility towards the other team members to make sure the team at least stand a decent chance to get through the mission/dungeon in one piece.|
And if he's not, does that mean you have to get rid of him? Not really, but since you as a leader is the filter, maybe it would be a good idea to try to limit the amount of people who are more interested in bickering, leeroying or just plain being apathetic to not encompass the entire team.
So the best you can do is try to limit but that is still not as good as getting a guild/alliance team with people that you already know and trust. I just dont think PUGs have as high a chance of success as a good guild/alliance team or compared to my H/H team, even with all these so-called "filtering" in-place. So what is it you want? If I really want to succeed in the mission, I would call my guild/alliance or use my heroes. But if I have the time to fail, I may PUG for fun if I feel like watching the drama. Quote:
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