Preliminary Skill Update Notes: Feb 19

wat?
Yea, I thought about that. But if the drop rate is still .000002, people will quickly find that the chance for profit isn't worth the several hours spent completing an area with a balanced team.
It still would've been pretty OP even if it was only used by mesmers. Personally, I would've liked to have seen it changed to something like

Spell. Interrupt target foe's skill. If that foe was suffering from a Mesmer Hex, that foe and all foes in the area take 25...50 damage. If a skill was interrupted, they take an additional 25...50 damage.

every maintainable IAS has a drawback. every. single. maintainable. IAS. frenzy- double damage, p rage- double damage, flurry, reduced dps, flail, reduced movement.

I must agree with this. Many skills may seem nice by themselves, but not in the same build. Some skills seem like they're in the wrong attribute, too. I don't think the primary attribute needs any sort of buff at all. Another player and I were discussing how neat it would be to have more attributes that weren't based on giving energy.

This is a good idea. Instead of changing what mesmers are meant to do and homogenizing them with other classes, just make more skills reward the interupts, e-denial, etc.

But really, this was a good update. I only wish it hadnt taken 5 months to get out. Arnt skill updates supposed to come out every 2 months?

I would like to remind some that getting the Test Krewe fully in place and involved with the update process took up a chunk of that time, but I doubt that it could account for all three or so months' lateness.

Guild Wars is named after an era in the lore of GW's history. It has NOTHING to do with hinting you need to play as a team or in guilds.

And what if you can play areas in a 2 man setup? It's still co-op play. Just like two people bringing 6 heroes, except that drops suck in full group play.

Farming was part of pve endgame content. But instead of adding new content to the game, they take out existing content.

In conclusion: good for the masochists and purists, bad for the fun factor and replayability.

*Ahem*

In all honesty, the only thing I'm looking forward to is abusing the new Dwarven Battle Stance.

I'm a little weary of the change of Ancestor's Rage to armor ignoring. Mobs of multiple rits will be hitting a lot harder now, possible party wipe situations in HM.

But I will say I am interested on running Ancestor's Rage on a Rt/Me possibly echo chaining it off a beefed up warrior. Just for the lulz.

2-man setups usually just involve casting four enchantments on yourself by microing a hero and then soloing everything while flagging your hero behind you.

It's just soloing with two skillbars.

Everyone has the same idea of fun as you do.

And I'm not even joking. Demonic Flesh + Barrage looks very overpowered, perma life-stealing splinter weapon much? Sure, it's an indirect update but by the looks of it, still gamebreakingly overpowered.
Too bad you can't break something that's already broken.

On another note, Makes me wonder if the live crew actually plays their own game, considering the recharge time is already 45 seconds.

I remember the last update that allowed Precision Shot to end stances even though it wasn't supposed to.

I remember the TK was introduced to as mediators between the developers and the community? I thought the whole point of the TK was to relate feedback from the community to the Live Team, to let them know of main issues and concerns, to discuss what should and what shouldn't be done for future updates? If all the TK is doing is just being given a bunch of dart boarded skills to test, then what is their own QA team for?

Read the forums and the Wiki? Anyone who's been remotely following those should be aware that the general consensus is that the main issue they should have looked at were the much needed Mesmer, Paragon, and Dervish buffs.

• The enchantment reapplies on critical hits, and if I remember correctly, that means it will almost always be considered the first and frontmost enchantment on you to be removed.
• You don't get criticals? You lose your IAS and have to wait maybe ten to fifteen or so seconds to put it back on.

I wouldn't think that each single target of Barrage would be considered a target for Demonic Flesh, but I guess that's something that I'd have to test when I get back to my computer.

It seems that a couple of skills were mentioned to have changes to them with respect to some of our previous proposals and ideas for those skills, rather than what the current skills do. I see now that a similar mistake was made for Fierce Blow.

I am kind of confused as to why Anet chose to focus on three classes (warriors, necros, and rits) that were already probably the most powerful classes in the game. I mean I know hammer mastery and blood magic werent used much but they belong to some very powerful professions and they are at least better than motivation and wind prayers are in pve

I'm very curious to hear if it syngergizes with Barrage, just to see how dedicated this Test Krewe really is. I came up with that combination in about 15 minutes of looking through the preliminary skill update notes.

So if it really works as I think it does, I've all the reason to finally give up on this game and move on.

Edit: Meh, who am I kidding. No matter how broken this game is in its' current state, I still enjoy playing it every once in awhile.

I don't see what you'll gain in taking away the fun for people like me who duo with a bunch of old timer friends and not with a hero like you think. Wtf are we gonna do, play everything for the 10th time again 'balanced'? Or waste 4 hours to get a titan gem in foundry if you're lucky? Sounds fun yeah. Been there, done that. To each their own I guess.

The point it, its maintainable and has no negative effects.

Well you're wrong there check out the Ritualist skill "Weapon of Aggression". It's not a stance either.

Oh, and don't forget to rub WotA, RaO, Heart of Fury, Lightning Reflexes, etc... in his face while you're at it.

doesn't matter, it's only maintainable with a huge stat investment, and is used on a class that performs poorly in melee, and when used on a warrior, isn't maintainable without being forced to use zealous.


WotA and RaO sure, but a key word in my post was MAINTAINABLE, which pretty much nullifies the rest of your examples.

I don't think it would work that way with Barrage since you're only actually using one skill that's targeting one foe. The other arrows are just AoE.

But if it does, I'll appreciate the buff.

It has a pretty high energy cost. It also limits the use of defensive weapon spells like Weapon of Warding and offensive ones like Splinter Weapon and GDW. No splinter or GDW is a big deal in PvE.

WoTA only works with daggers, can only be used effectively by assassins, provides a pretty low speed increase, and it's elite.
RaO has a short duration, requires a pet, has a huge energy cost, and it's elite.
Heart of Fury isn't maintainable, has a high energy cost, and has a 3/4 casting time.
Lightning Reflexes can only be used by rangers and can only be upkept about 1/4 of the time in PvP.
What's with you and rubbing faces?

I was referring more towards the "no drawbacks" aspect of that arguement, but thanks for trying to rub that point in my face.

You get +9001 rub-in-face points for that one.

high energy cost and difficulty in maintaining are drawbacks.

But hey, whatever you say Mr Smartypants.

There's nothing difficult in maintaining said the IAS skills I mentioned. Zealous Weapons, or Scavengers Strike, work nicely with RaO. WotA's definitely not hard to maintain. at. all. and LR and HoF, while not permanent sources of IAS, have absolutely ZERO drawbacks associated with them.

It's called sarcasm?

Cant wait to use Blood Bond with a Manly build, should make the various areas easier to farm and sc with this

i was talking about MAINTAINABLE IAS. and the energy is in fact a drawback, because it forces you to use skills and specific weapons to manage it.

not sure if you actually know what sarcasm is, so here you go.

Sarcasm
–noun
1.
harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2.
a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.


so, it seems to me that you have a sick face rubbing fetish. please remain at least 500 yards away from children.

The fact that you have to use certain methods of maintaining it counts as a drawback.
WoTA's duration isn't its drawback, it has others.

Not being maintainable is the biggest drawback of HoF and LR*. That's like saying, "AIDS, although it can kill you, has absolutely ZERO drawbacks associated with it." Also, the casting time and energy cost of HoS are pretty bad.

*LR shouldn't even be on your list as it isn't really an IAS; it's a defensive stance that just so happens to have a bonus increase to attack speed.
Sarcasm works better when you make a point.

An IAS not being maintainable is a drawback in the sence that you'll need another (IAS) skill to make up for the downtime. This applies for Lightning Reflexes even when used with Dwarven Stability.

Rampage As One's high energy cost is a drawback because you're forced to use either another skillslot (Scavenger's Strike in your example) or a Zealous Weapon, or both. Both are drawbacks because using a Zealous Weapon is inferior to using a say, Vampiric Weapon to actually deal damage like you should. (Why else would you take an IAS.) Having to give up a skillslot which would otherwise have increased your damage output or utility is a drawback, and if you're using Scavenger's Strike that's already 2 additional (3 in PvP, where Charm Animal is required aswell) skillslots because Comfort Animal is also a pretty inferior skill. (Pet AI is dumb, get over it.)
Not to mention it takes up your Elite.

Heart of Fury has a cast time, in which you would otherwise be attacking. It has a pretty high energy cost and isn't permanent unless you (ab)use Eternal Aura, which would cost you more than just a skillslot; it's a PvE only skill of which you can only take 3 on your skillbar. But one of the biggest downsides is that it's an enchantment, which is relatively easy to remove.

WoTA is another elite skill, which deals pretty inferior damage compared to other elite skills Assassins could use. It's only usable by daggers and increases the critical strike ratio you have. So it's basically only good for high energy cost builds, but if you're already investing points in Critical Strikes you should have plenty of energy. Not to mention the IAS part of this skill is very low compared to other IAS skills.

EDIT; beat me to it. yaimad

After a bit more thought, I've decided (like a lot of people, though it took much longer for me) that the Steelfang Slash and Fear Me buffs are a bad idea that will create a ton of imbalance.

For Steelfang Slash, look at Dragon Slash. With the removal of the recharge time, Steelfang will actually be a better skill, despite being non-elite.

This is very bad, because it opens up the possibility of combining two of the most effective Warrior builds into one monstrous beast: HB+WA and DS+SY. As it is, the only thing preventing the merging of the AoE capabilities of HB+WA (which become downright insane when combined with MoP) with the single target damage and SY spam of DS+SY is the fact that DS and HB are both elites (and Steelfang is simply not up to the task of replacing DS due to the recharge time). With the recharge time removed, there is nothing preventing the merging of these builds into a ridiculously overpowered chimera. In fact, Steelfang Slash will be the only thing needed to charge WA, resulting in more bar compression, so it's even better than HB+WA and DS+SY combined. Instead of encouraging more builds, this will reduce the number of good warrior builds, while taking a sledgehammer to the newly created PvE balance that the SF and 600 nerfs will work so hard to create.

The Fear Me buff is not too bad if you only consider it's effect on warrior weapons. But that's not what people will use it for. People are going to use it with Enduring Scythe, which is such an incredibly overpowered build to begin with that it removes the purpose of playing a primary dervish altogether by using their weapon better than they do while having more armor and having no significant downsides. This will buff the damage on the build to levels possibly surpassing even critscythe (which currently does even more damage than enduring scythe, but it comes at the cost of not having access to SY).

In other words, this change will remove one of the primary PvE builds of the assassin, while spitting on dervishes by taking a warrior build that already makes their class meaningless and buffing it even further.

And no, D/Ws will not be able to abuse this too. Dervishes have to split their attributes 3 ways already (Scythe Mastery for damage, Mysticism for IAS, and Wind Prayers for energy management). They can't afford to take any points from anywhere. Warriors only need Scythe Mastery and Strength, and they can afford to take a few points out of strength without hindering their ability to maintain Flail or reducing their damage significantly.

It's also worth noting that warriors may attempt to combine this with WE and daggers. I don't know what the results will be (as my assassin is a joke character who swings a hammer), but it's also something to consider.

Fortunately, there is a simple solution: make the critical hit increase of Fear Me only affect warrior weapons. Then the change will be an interesting and possibly fun one. Otherwise, the change will do far more harm to the game than good.

Thank you. This makes me happy. It gives me the (admittedly naive) hope that some of the issues the community spots that slip through the cracks (it's inevitable, really, even with the TK) will be addressed, resulting in a better update, and possibly creating a positive feedback loop of more openness and better updates.

Actually, Dervishes Primaries could drop Mysticism altogether (I mean, how many threads have there already been saying Mysticism is the worst Primary Attribute...) and take an IAS like Soldier's Stance to eliminate the need for a 4-way attribute split.

If they do that, they have to give up zealous vow. If they give up zealous vow, they can no longer spam quick activation scythe attacks, which are the basis of the better scythe builds.

It's the same reason that Enduring Scythe has to take Warrior's Endurance for it's elite.

I don't think we can say for sure yet whether or not auto-crits @ 14 scythe, but lesser attack skills spammed will be inferior to 12 scythe auto-crits. Mind you though, it'd be pretty hilaric to see Soldier's Stance make Dervishes the wammo-like tanks they were always meant to be.

(And I was implying for D/W Soldier's Stance to be used with Attacker's Insight for energy management, perhaps with the higher damaging attack skills Scythe Mastery offers (such as Chilling Victory + Pious Assault, which should be managable with another 3/4th attack skill and only 3+1 wind prayers), Dervishes would probably have more attribute points to put in Tactics too after dropping Mysticism.)

But hey, 's all theorycrafting without numbers.

EDIT: Attacker's Insight + Lyssa's Assault would be some decent energy management aswell to fuel the fast attack skills.

Ok, I understand the list of changes is subject to change. What I don't understand is why SF, Obsidian Flesh, and 600/Smite got no mention. Yes, they said they were working on it, but the other skills have details on par with the update notes. Yet for something as drastic as SF, and as anticipated, we don't even get a hint. Couldn't they at least say something like "we are looking into duration/recharge changes", or "we are changing the skills commonly used to maintain it (Arcane Echo, Glyph of Swiftness, and Deadly Paradox)", or "we are changing its function". None of those things are detailed, but they at least give us something to look forward to.

Since the whole point of releasing these noted is to keep us updated, why limit that info? The mAT may need to know some of it, as they will want to plan ahead. But with the skills listed, not all of them will be changed for PvP, in fact, most of that list is PvE only if I read it correctly. Since they went to so much detail for PvE changes, why do they stop before at least hinting at the ones people are most interested in?

I'd guess because they have no actual clue themselves, will leave it till the absolute last minute to decide, put what is essentially half tested alpha code live and then have to do a barrage of updates to fix problems, followed by a series of balances to fix balance issues they failed to find, in what they laughably call testing. Isn't that the normal routine?

SF, Obby, and 600 smite skills are still under the water, yes. We already got the clue that SF is to be entirely changed, meaning it will be something different. It's never a good sign when Anet keeps concealing info about something anticipated like updates or something like XTH. I'm not too sure Anet is willing to shut down farming builds entirely. Maybe make it more difficult to master. Anything that favors farming aren't at all good for the game, in reality. Though they did say they will do something to hinder these meta farming builds, so lets hope that what ever they do to, it's enough to halt the extreme solo farming of these builds, at least that anyways.

First of all:
Expert's Dexterity.
Maintainable, 33% IAS that can be used with ANY weapon AND it gives a +2 to Marks.
Not only that - when it was trashed for PvP, they kept it's overpowered version alive for PvE.
There is NO case for not having a PvE-only version of Soilder's.


And then:
With the introduction of titles the game has shifted from a multi-character game to a game with one main character. And that means that each and every character in the game NEEDS to be able to do it all. You don't get to max out 30+ titles by messing around with non-main guys.
Can the mesmers play on that level?
Yes. But that comes form the fact that PvE is just obscenely easy and not the fact that the mesmers would actually be comparable to other classes. But considering that other classes are actually more suitable for PvE AND yet they still receive buffs would suggest that just being able to scrape by isn't the desired level of power for PvE.
So, that pretty much leaves us with only two options:
1. nerf everything in sight (and of course that includes mesmers - as I have said, PvE skills and caster-induced daze need to die) to create a new desirable level of power in PvE
2. buff mesmers out of their mind

You don't seem to get how these builds work.

It's not about the +dmg of the attacks; that is low on the list of priorities. Believe it or not, even at 0 strength, Protector's Strike is the best attack skill for a scythe that a dervish can get their hands on, because it's activation time is so insanely quick. With a buff like AoHM, every attack is like an attack skill. So, what matters is getting in as many attacks as you can. Quick-activation attack skills, then, are the ideal. Chilling Victory's recharge is far too long to be useful. Same with Pious Assault (which is also bad because it removes an enchantment). Attacker's Insight and Lyssa's Assault also fall prey to this. None of these combinations offer anywhere near the sheer dps that a zealous vow build with quick activation and quick recharge attack skills can offer, which is why they are used.

Also, auto-crits (via buffs) are not possible, because critical hit modifiers stack multiplicatively, not additively. In addition, your crit rate is lower against higher-level foes (though according to the latest research I've seen, this seems to only be so of the initial crit rate, before modifiers are considered).

If Anet doesn't fix the problem I noted above, I will probably have no choice but to start exploring a Soldier's Stance type build. Unfortunately, it will be difficult (and likely even impossible) to find a way to use the skill in a D/W build that would not be done better by a W/D. And even if I did succeed, it would be a build with vastly inferior dps than a zealous vow one, and the only thing it would have to show for it is an innate 75% block chance.

I use WE daggers more than I use WE scythe. IMO, the fact that it hits way faster and has constant spammable chains, to me, make it the more effective of the 2 builds. Auto-attack does less damage, but with zealous daggers, it appears to me that the insane energy regain makes it a lot more worthwhile.

Flail+Zealous+WE=endless energy, constant SY! which takes little over a heartbeat to recharge. Overall damage is obviously slightly higher than W/A, but ure hitting a lot more often, so it does tend to even out.

That's just my opinion. Having said that, I can affirm right here, that anything that's going to be abused by W/D, is sure as hell gonna be abused by me and the W/A crew. Bet on it.

Well, then, there you go. Another reason to make sure Fear Me's crit buff only affects warrior weapons.

But going back to the Steelfang Slash change, the only ways to fix it that I can see would be to either not change it at all, or remove/vastly decrease the adrenaline gain from the skill, so that it could not be used as a replacement for Dragon Slash.

Backbreaker will quickly break steelfang again in PvP. So the only question is whether the steelfang nerf will be split out or not. Well at least a few mobs are semi-KD immune anyway.

That entire statement is both shameful and ridiculous. I sincerely hope your view is not the majority view in the Test Krewe and among the ANet devs. Why should one class be exempt from end-game PvE, just because you're unwilling to make the necessary changes? -.-