Preliminary Skill Update Notes: Feb 19 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Tenebrae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Spain

LHV

R/N

20 Feb 2010 at 20:53 - 201

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

Trust me, if there were a way for WoW players to solo the most difficult raid in the game, there would without a doubt be thousands of people doing it within a week, and then a week after that, Blizzard would hurry up and fix it (since it would likely be a bug causing it).

In GW? The same thing happens, except ANet takes 2 years to somewhat, kinda fix the problem.

Well , kinda happens , ppl who you pay money to care , cares .

Xsiriss

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

20 Feb 2010 at 20:58 - 202

My earlier general criticisms aside, these 'buffs' are largely reworkings of the skill that make them more versatile (spirit rift for example). Looking at the necro skills, they need to slap some damage on their so we don't have to go, 'uh this is a buff right?'. As mentioned before, bleeding is not worth sacing 12% of your health for when your Jagged Horror is pumping it out for you as you discord their asses.

Again, GET YOUR DAMAGE ON,for god sake it's pve and it's need much more than various new ways of adding cracked armour or that random stuff.

tealspikes

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2009

20 Feb 2010 at 21:01 - 203

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dabineh Deathbringer

The thing I've noticed about the Guild Wars community is that A-Net can't stop them. I remember when good old Shield of Judgement was great for farming trolls in Prophecies. Now? We've got tons of people that are "Not too Shabby" and rich as hell because of simple skills. People that constantly do FoWSC and lots of people with Savior of (faction).

I hope A-Net realizes that with in time, nearly every title that seems very time consuming with be as easy as they are now. That's what I love about this community - people have such creativity and intelligence. You won't find that in other MMORPG's, so that's something to be proud of.

Only a handful of people are creative and intelligent. The rest just know how to copy/paste off the wiki.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flapjack

Well that certainly sounds reasonable. But perhaps before we spend much time working on effective ways to clear elite areas someone could explain what is "acceptable"?

Is there a certain length of time you would like us to stay above and/or certain classes that must be included or the method would be deemed unacceptable?

I'm only being slightly sarcastic actually. It would be nice to know what the TK thinks is appropriate so that if I happen to play outside the lines of what is "acceptable" in pve clears (lol) I'll try and keep it to myself and not let it get out and become a nerf target.

It's not exactly black & white as to what's acceptable and whats not. I'm guessing by Regina's comments on SF and 600, that builds that allow people to consistently clear areas with only a fraction of a full party is one example of whats not acceptable.

Orry

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2010

20 Feb 2010 at 21:19 - 204

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealspikes

Only a handful of people are creative and intelligent. The rest just know how to copy/paste off the wiki.

It's not exactly black & white as to what's acceptable and whats not. I'm guessing by Regina's comments on SF and 600, that builds that allow people to consistently clear areas with only a fraction of a full party is one example of whats not acceptable.

And the fact that they are talking about Obsidian Flesh makes it seem like near-invincibility is unacceptible.

Ugh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

R/

20 Feb 2010 at 21:24 - 205

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

if TK (even not openly as TK but just as a 'guru member') created a thread to discuss what needs the biggest buffs/nerfs/changes and why and monitored it very well, taking it into consideration and following at least some of the playerbase requests, it might have nice effects.

That would just be filled with people ranting about their pet classes. And, I think the community has been pretty vocal about what needs to be fixed. Just from reading through this thread, I've gathered that these seem to be the most problematic:

1. Dervishes
2. Mesmers
3. Rangers
4. Eles (can't act like eles)
5. Paragons (only have one build)

Quote:

Originally Posted by furpigs

Did I miss the actual wording to the shadow form nerf? Or was it not posted?

And what is the guess for it?

It wasn't posted.

And I'm hoping for a functionallity change.

Jk)Phoenix

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Pizza's Town

I've Quit GW ^^

E/

20 Feb 2010 at 21:25 - 206

hope at least they will fix a bit also drop rate for rare skinned weapons... since will took now to make a run "anywhere" almost triple of the time of before...

and hope they RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin low down the dmg of bosses with normal attacks... it's unbelievable that a monk boss in HM wanding me hit for 150-200 dmg... wtf!

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

20 Feb 2010 at 21:38 - 207

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Using Offhand or Dual Attacks out of chain will be the same as a "fail", without the instant cast. They will recharge instantly, but won't count as being activated. They'll still cost energy tough.

Thus, you can simply use exhausting assault on any target (test it in temple if you don't believe me), and spam it as much as you want. Right now, tough, there isn't any known use to it, as it doesn't trigger on anything. (Not even Illusionary Weaponry)

With this update, as noted on wiki, it will trigger on demonic flesh, and result in 1 trigger of the skill per Exhausting Assault.

Same for blinding power. (It also recharges instantly)

1. Can you point me to this note on the wiki? I'm a little unclear on how anyone is posting with certainty what an unreleased skill is going to count as "use a skill."

2. If that is the case, it's a bug problem, not a balance problem. (Though the new Demonic Flesh sounds like it may be OP anyway...) Failed skills should not count as "used." Problem solved.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

20 Feb 2010 at 21:49 - 208

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Guild Wars is a team game, as hinted by the name, NOT a solo/2 man game.

I still dislike you, but you are correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProX AcciaiO

this balance it's not right for new players

You may not have went into any detail, but there is some truth to that. Anet appears to have changed their goal. It was to balance for players who are new, casual, and on 'n off players along with many of the advanced players found here and in game. Basically put consideration of different play styles. While the few greatly over-powered skills are being changed, this update has a lot wrong.

This update is focused on keeping the pet professions of the Test Krewe happy as they blow though the game as they prefer to. The changes further increase synergy of professions that already have amazing synergy and high damage. You'll won't need a paragon when you have warriors, dervish, and assassins running SY.

This update ignores professions. While it's nice that there is a continuing effort to help beast mastery, what happened to the professions that needed changes the most? The update preview went straight at professions that most players agree are useful.

To me, a damage warrior is still a tank, as they have high armor and most damage isn't really armor ignoring. Waiting around for a perma to finish a dungeon is boring and so is waiting for them to ball up enemies to nuke.

Elementalist shouldn't have too much armor ignoring damage unless it's in air perhaps. Making all or most ele nukes like air would make air less special. Fire can still damage with the help of Assassin's Promise/Gylph of Sacrifice and hitting the big red Meteor Shower nuke button over and over is nice.

Mesmer is my main and there are some fair builds, however they are unused by the great majority of mesmer players I've played with. This is a problem that needs to be addressed and those players should have the ability to contribute. I'm aware mesmers are useful in PvP and I do jump into such play now and then, but being good in one area while blowing chunks everywhere else isn't right and isn't an excuse to not have balance.

I for one still enjoy this game and I was hoping for some really meaningful changes to my often used builds. Please scrap the Test Krewe or weed out the ones who are only looking out for themselves. The new direction Guild Wars is going in is scary.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

20 Feb 2010 at 21:55 - 209

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

i think that a class being designed for only one aspect of the game, with completely shitty the other one, is faulty in the very idea.
saying that mesmers were designed for pvp is true, but it's not a reason why they should suck in pve.

because you play a class designed for one aspect, and you play the other aspect, doesn't mean there's something wrong with the class, it means there's something wrong with you. just because you don't like pvp, but want to play a class designed mainly for pvp doesn't mean it should be "fixed" just to suit you.

Orry

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2010

20 Feb 2010 at 21:59 - 210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Mesmer is my main and there are some fair builds, however they are unused by the great majority of mesmer players I've played with. This is a problem that needs to be addressed and those players should have the ability to contribute. I'm aware mesmers are useful in PvP and I do jump into such play now and then, but being good in one area while blowing chunks everywhere else isn't right and isn't an excuse to not have balance.

The problem with the good mesmer builds is people can't copy/paste them PvX and 1-2-3 them since their use is situational. The best use of a mesmer is to fast-cast those over powered pve skills we hear so much about.

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

20 Feb 2010 at 22:05 - 211

Quote:

because you play a class designed for one aspect, and you play the other aspect, doesn't mean there's something wrong with the class, it means there's something wrong with you. just because you don't like pvp, but want to play a class designed mainly for pvp doesn't mean it should be "fixed" just to suit you.

it would be fine if other classes were designed specifically for pvp or pve. but that's not the case. everything - but mesmers - is designed for Guild Wars, not pvp/pve side. i don't judge how well the design was with other classes, but mesmer is clearly pvp char which sucks in pve. that's not the game mechanics, but an exception. a failure.

e:

Quote:

The problem with the good mesmer builds is people can't copy/paste them PvX and 1-2-3 them since their use is situational.

the problem with good mesmer builds is that e-denial does nothing to mobs in pve.
the problem with good mesmer builds is that you have to be goddamn lucky to interrupt mobs in hard mode, not to mention bosses.
the problem with good mesmer builds is that they don't deal any direct damage but they punish mobs' actions - what's clearly a pvp design - and that those punishment hexes can easily be taken off or expire really fast on a boss.
the problem ...

builds being situational is not the biggest problem.

Quote:

The only use of a mesmer in the end-game is to fast-cast those over powered pve skills we hear so much about.

fixed for you.

aaaand just to clear things up. i defend mesmers and point out their inferiority in pve aspects of the game all the time not becuase i need a buff to my class cause i can't achieve something - got gwamm, done uw, killed mallyx. the point is that even as neglected class as a paragon or as buffed now as ritualist - who, as ANet says, had no place in end-game pve :rotfl: - is much more desired and playable in high-end than mesmers. that's just a fact - if you don't believe me, go and see.
i've even rerolled to a paragon to see what's the fuss about in their case. yes, they are crappy and they can run only one effective build, but it's goddamn effective and they're still much more desired in groups and playable than mesmers.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

20 Feb 2010 at 22:06 - 212

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orry

The problem with the good mesmer builds is people can't copy/paste them PvX and 1-2-3 them since their use is situational. The best use of a mesmer is to fast-cast those over powered pve skills we hear so much about.

This.

if there's anything that requires more skill than rolling your face on your keyboard, leave it to someone to complain.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

20 Feb 2010 at 22:08 - 213

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

because you play a class designed for one aspect, and you play the other aspect, doesn't mean there's something wrong with the class, it means there's something wrong with you. just because you don't like pvp, but want to play a class designed mainly for pvp doesn't mean it should be "fixed" just to suit you.

Basically the profession in question should be very limited to only one area. No, that doesn't make sense at all. It sounds more like you want the profession to suit how you want it to be like.

So mesmers aren't for button mashing and likely shouldn't be such, but they still greatly need some help in useful skill choices, recharge, and energy. Along the way they should make some sort of attempt to make them easier to at least get into as they learn how to use them. There's plenty of useless stuff to pick from.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

20 Feb 2010 at 22:16 - 214

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

This.

if there's anything that requires more skill than rolling your face on your keyboard, leave it to someone to complain.

True, but not for mesmer. You can't shut PvE HM monsters down, hence mesmers are useless

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

20 Feb 2010 at 22:20 - 215

Quote:

if there's anything that requires more skill than rolling your face on your keyboard, leave it to someone to complain.

Quote:

Profession: W/A

please finish all storylines with a mesmer, both h/h and with people, and try to get into an end-game group - even with guildies. if you don't end up running FC echo RoJ or another imba gimmick, come back and share with us.
as right now i have a feeling that you just read somewhere that mesmers are hard to play but they're playable, maybe even they're powerful and superior to other classes, as those little things they do can save a big battle. that's utter bullshit. it's a lie that came from manuscripts/wiki and is consecutively repeated by people who haven't played mesmers or seen them briefly, and moved back to their pve-valiable main.
just take a look here - it's one of the worst jokes ever.
it's time to wake up.

Quote:

This update is focused on keeping the pet professions of the Test Krewe happy as they blow though the game as they prefer to.

i'm not going to throw rocks at anyone here, but i wouldn't be surprised to see that most of the TK //or other 'meaning' persons of the GW world// play warriors and ritualists, some play necros.

Gonzo_Neo

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2007

P/W

20 Feb 2010 at 22:27 - 216

Good update but i had hopes of a buff to Motivation PVE and Dervish

flapjack

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2008

Guild With No [NAM???]

N/Me

20 Feb 2010 at 22:42 - 217

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealspikes

It's not exactly black & white as to what's acceptable and whats not. I'm guessing by Regina's comments on SF and 600, that builds that allow people to consistently clear areas with only a fraction of a full party is one example of whats not acceptable.

My bad, i guess i was being a little more than slightly sarcastic when I asked:

"But perhaps before we spend much time working on effective ways to clear elite areas someone could explain what is "acceptable"?

Is there a certain length of time you would like us to stay above and/or certain classes that must be included or the method would be deemed unacceptable?"

I've certainly logged plenty of time playing through the games with big armory dude up front kept alive with little prot/healy dude in back with degening/bombing caster dude in middle.......meh...... balanced, lovely.....yawn......

Or the equally fascinating armory/shadowy/protected dude up front gathering for spiky dude/dudes etc etc.

Ive had quite a lot of fun with some of the "over powered" skills that have caused such an uproar amongst many GURU readers. I will miss SF for the easy to find "pick-up-groups" and higher skilled FL teams formed to clear elite areas. On the other hand there is always something else fun or interesting to do/exploit in the game

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

20 Feb 2010 at 22:57 - 218

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. Can you point me to this note on the wiki? I'm a little unclear on how anyone is posting with certainty what an unreleased skill is going to count as "use a skill."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

Demonic Flesh is being changed to work best on characters that use skills frequently, such as physical attackers. It will steal health from other foes adjacent to your target whenever you use a skill that targets a foe. Its new costs will be 5 energy, with a 1 second cast time, and a 30 second recharge.

Quote:

2. If that is the case, it's a bug problem, not a balance problem. (Though the new Demonic Flesh sounds like it may be OP anyway...) Failed skills should not count as "used." Problem solved.

Remember the old build when Nightfall came out that used the Way of the Empty Palm + Exhausting Assault + Sand Shards combo, because Sand Shards dealt damage when ever you missed with any kind of attack? It's this one, if you don't remember. It's like that. The fix that was put in place was to change Sand Shards to only work on Scythe Attacks. There wasn't any kind of adjustment made to the "failure" mechanic.

A similar kind of avoidance is probably going to be put in place for this set of skills. Since Demonic Flesh is the main culprit here, it seems like it will be the one to get changed.

LazyLink

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Ascalon Dung Warriors

R/Mo

20 Feb 2010 at 23:03 - 219

Nerfs to SF,OB, 600: good, its about time

Buffs to Hammer PvE: good, they suck right now.

Ritualist PvE buffs: don't care

Tactics buffs: interesting, adrenaline gain could fuel Warrior who use adrenaline (Bonetti's Defense) to farm.

Blood Magic buffs: Good, maybe blood will finally be worth something in 4v4

Other Stuff:

Primal Rage nerf: unneeded, it wasn't THAT good.

Shattering assault nerf: Unneeded, it was fine

Resilient Weapon nerf: unneeded.

Crippling shot change: ummm, why?

Ugh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

R/

20 Feb 2010 at 23:28 - 220

They should make Demonic Flesh only trigger when you successfully use a skill against a foe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LazyLink

Primal Rage nerf: unneeded, it wasn't THAT good.

It kinda was.

Quote:

Shattering assault nerf: Unneeded, it was fine

No.

Quote:

Crippling shot change: ummm, why?

Because the buff made it less skillful to use by allowing a ranger to shoot an undodgable, unblockable arrow from longbow range. Now positioning will be important again.

The increased duration makes it more effective in RA and CM. I'm not sure why they added that, though. It could've just been to prevent people such as myself from raging about more ranger nerfs (but this nerf was appropriate, so I would'nt have complained if they didn't touch the duration).

Jensy

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2007

Phoenix, Arizona

Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa]

N/Mo

20 Feb 2010 at 23:29 - 221

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

This update is focused on keeping the pet professions of the Test Krewe happy as they blow though the game as they prefer to. The changes further increase synergy of professions that already have amazing synergy and high damage. You'll won't need a paragon when you have warriors, dervish, and assassins running SY.

I for one still enjoy this game and I was hoping for some really meaningful changes to my often used builds. Please scrap the Test Krewe or weed out the ones who are only looking out for themselves. The new direction Guild Wars is going in is scary.

HAHAHA. omg you're not serious? So, what, you're guessing based on... nothing that the TK hates mesmers, paragons, kittens, long walks, and sunsets?

We test what's given to us to test. We don't have some all-consuming power over anet to get them to ask how high when we say jump.

The main issue is that you're stuck on "my often used builds" and... so you want us to not look out for ourselves (We're not) but we're to have your personal interests in mind for balance. How, exactly, does that work?

Hyperventilate

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

Somewhere in California

I Gots A Crayon [Blue]

Me/Mo

20 Feb 2010 at 23:31 - 222

With the impending "nerf" to shadow form.. just a thought: What's going to happen to the Skeletons of Dhuum? They were put in place (and failed) to damage the SF farmers, so are they going to remove them because they will become forever more useless? I still find it ridiculous to completely to disable an entire "species" of monk entirely because of those little bastards.

The ecto from them is nice, but, really? I'd like to see them gone. Also, I don't expect to see this update until February next year. Being incredibly vague and nonspecific isn't the proper path down this clarity route they were talking about months ago.

QueenofDeath

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2009

20 Feb 2010 at 23:31 - 223

Quote:

Based on our testing, observation and discussion, we expect to make changes to Shadow Form, Obsidian Flesh, and to a skill or two used in 600-Smite builds.

Yesssssssssssssssssssszzzzzzzzzah goodbye Obie Won everytime Kanobie, goodbye Cheating Form, goodbye 600 Spartans asmiting. Finally the game can get back to where it belongs with no more invulnerable farming for dollars.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

20 Feb 2010 at 23:34 - 224

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jensy

The main issue is that you're stuck on "my often used builds" and... so you want us to not look out for ourselves (We're not) but we're to have your personal interests in mind for balance. How, exactly, does that work?

Stop picking single bits and using it to twist what I say, please.

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

20 Feb 2010 at 23:37 - 225

Quote:

We test what's given to us to test.

can you say if it's ANet giving you things to test? if yes, is it someone competent or a random, not necessarily playing guy knowing nothing about all the classes/skills?

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

20 Feb 2010 at 23:38 - 226

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

please finish all storylines with a mesmer, both h/h and with people, and try to get into an end-game group - even with guildies. if you don't end up running FC echo RoJ or another imba gimmick, come back and share with us.
as right now i have a feeling that you just read somewhere that mesmers are hard to play but they're playable, maybe even they're powerful and superior to other classes, as those little things they do can save a big battle. that's utter bullshit. it's a lie that came from manuscripts/wiki and is consecutively repeated by people who haven't played mesmers or seen them briefly, and moved back to their pve-valiable main.
just take a look here - it's one of the worst jokes ever.
it's time to wake up.

I have a mesmer. i've completed just about everything but proph with a VoR build, and tbh i couldn't give two shits about high end pve. it's slow, but it works no clue what you were getting at by quoting my profession, i'm pretty sure playing hammer war takes more skill than hexing, and is more likely beyond what you're capable of if you're whining about pve being too hard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Basically the profession in question should be very limited to only one area. No, that doesn't make sense at all. It sounds more like you want the profession to suit how you want it to be like.

So mesmers aren't for button mashing and likely shouldn't be such, but they still greatly need some help in useful skill choices, recharge, and energy. Along the way they should make some sort of attempt to make them easier to at least get into as they learn how to use them. There's plenty of useless stuff to pick from.

I'd also like to shank people with my toaster, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't designed for that.

Turbo Ginsu

I despise facebook

Join Date: Feb 2008

Australia

Meeting of the Lost Minds

Me/

20 Feb 2010 at 23:38 - 227

Quote:

Shadow Form and Invulnerability
In tackling Shadow Form, we decided to take a larger look at the issues involved. We want to simply nerf Shadow Form, 600, hell: farming in general and cause a mass migration to another overpriced game, for instance Aion, or the upcoming GW2 (We swear it's not Vaporware!) which will guarantee us more of your $$$'s. The costumes didn't suck you all in as well as we'd hoped, and now we need to recoup costs on that too.

This is what I see every time I look at that page.

I really am having a hard time seeing this update as anything more than one big cruel joke.

aNet: "Let's ignore Mesmers Beastmasters and Paragons, give Rits and Nec's some more unneeded love, and nerf farming for all but the "We live on GW in a permanent party with other like-minded individuals"-types, who are about the only ones who will be unaffected by this.

Don't get me wrong, I like to build, but to me these all look like a case of exchanging one set of cheesy /gimmick builds which were whinged about too much, with a new set of cheesy /gimmick builds that are yet to be picked apart and whinged about enough to receive the nerfbat.

This game is old hat, not some new flashy fandangulous wonder. We all know how it works, we all know why aNet are really trying to force as many loyal customers away from it as they can. They saw what happened in the NwN>NwN2 thang, and don't want to have to bundle GW2 with GW1 just to sell it.

They want us off, and they want it now. Or at least it sure seems that way.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

20 Feb 2010 at 23:45 - 228

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

I'd also like to shank people with my toaster, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't designed for that.

That's such a flawed statement when you use it with Guild Wars.

ShadowsRequiem

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Inde is Smoking [Hawt] *ToA*

W/E

20 Feb 2010 at 23:50 - 229

Darn they're nerfing SoS, plus they should nerf shadow form... I mean like really nerf it. I have a sin and its a complete joke. No one in their right mind should have made a skill that can make you invincible.

oh well slightly less dmg for SoS isnt that bad XD

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

20 Feb 2010 at 23:57 - 230

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

can you say if it's ANet giving you things to test? if yes, is it someone competent or a random, not necessarily playing guy knowing nothing about all the classes/skills?

Maybe more than nine times out of ten, the skills and mechanics that are being looked at are brought up and proposals for adjusting them are put forth by the Devs of ANet, and I would assume that what they are basing the need for some of these changes off of is Obs Mode and feedback on the latest few skill balances, as well as any other issues of the week/month/year, such as everyone's QQs over Mesmers and whatnot.

On a side note, I've decided that I don't believe Mesmers need a lot of help in PvE, reason being that giving Mesmers aid in PvE settings would require either:

Buffing a number of Mesmer skills, mainly and especially in direct, immediate damage, which would probably not be beneficial for PvP.
Require a shitton of skill splits, which are bad for the game in essence, because they're skill splits.

So, Mesmers aren't really meant for high-end PvE, or at least the way they're meant for PvP doesn't transfer well to high-end PvE. I don't see a problem here.

I should add though, I'm willing to change my position on this if you can give me a list of proposed changes to Mesmer skills that would make them viable in high-end PvP, wouldn't break PvP, and wouldn't require more than three skill splits (it was going to be zero, but I guess I'm being generous).

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

21 Feb 2010 at 00:00 - 231

Quote:

So, Mesmers aren't really meant for high-end PvE, or at least the way they're meant for PvP doesn't transfer well to high-end PvE. I don't see a problem here.

i always thought that every class should be desirable and playable in pve and that's the ultimate goal of balancing.
if that's what you think, then change the manuscripts and note on wiki that mesmers are not designed for pve and if someone's thinking about making one, they won't get buffed in because not, because they're pvp-only. warn newcomers beforehand, as i followed the wiki descriptions when i picked my very first char and i loved mesmers from what i've read. too bad it's all a lie and it turns out that it's intended to be kept that way.
more buffs for necros and rits then, go go.

Turbo Ginsu

I despise facebook

Join Date: Feb 2008

Australia

Meeting of the Lost Minds

Me/

21 Feb 2010 at 00:03 - 232

^Skill splits hurt no-one. They're an intelligent and beneficial way of keeping both sides of the bread buttered without dropping it in the dirt.

Mesmers were just fine in PvE, IMHO. Right up until VoR got lulwut-nerfed, for no real reson except to appease PvP'ers who got sick of being VoR chained to oblivion, mainly because most of them are just too stupid to stop attacking.

IMO, PvP'ers, unless they play just as much PvE-probably more, simply because PvP is so niched by design, don't really have the PvE experience to have an opinion anyway. As such, IMO anything they say is generally driven by a "Those other bastards" mentality, and based on a whole load of experience. At PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Mesmers being centered on disruption and caster control isn't effective in pve.

You're right there. Thing is, VoR was tremendously effective in PvE. Onoes! Mesmers are shining! Can't have that!! NERF!!!

Good start to fixing Mesmers, let me flog this dead horse just a little more: FIX F##$$%G VoR!!!

Shriketalon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

21 Feb 2010 at 00:12 - 233

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

On a side note, I've decided that I don't believe Mesmers need a lot of help in PvE, reason being that giving Mesmers aid in PvE settings would require either:[LIST][*] Buffing a number of Mesmer skills, mainly and especially in direct, immediate damage, which would probably not be beneficial for PvP.[*] Require a shitton of skill splits, which are bad for the game in essence, because they're skill splits.

Or they could do the same thing the blood magic and rit changes did, and make more combinations and synergy.

Give Mesmers more skills that are triggered by "every time you interrupt...", "your next hex...", "whenever you steal energy...", etc. Make them rewards for doing what a mesmer is supposed to do, thus keeping the tactics and specialties, but give adequate incentive to use those strategies in high end play. And the more of these that are tied to Fast Casting, the more viable a primary mesmer is in these roles.

A single interrupt is nearly worthless, but if the interrupt was also a vector for another effect, your mesmerizing skills would be rewarded with more power without being simple HURR, DAMAGE!

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

21 Feb 2010 at 00:40 - 234

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Ginsu

^Skill splits hurt no-one. They're an intelligent and beneficial way of keeping both sides of the bread buttered without dropping it in the dirt.

Mesmers were just fine in PvE, IMHO. Right up until VoR got lulwut-nerfed, for no real reson except to appease PvP'ers who got sick of being VoR chained to oblivion, mainly because most of them are just too stupid to stop attacking.

IMO, PvP'ers, unless they play just as much PvE-probably more, simply because PvP is so niched by design, don't really have the PvE experience to have an opinion anyway. As such, IMO anything they say is generally driven by a "Those other bastards" mentality, and based on a whole load of experience. At PvP.

You're right there. Thing is, VoR was tremendously effective in PvE. Onoes! Mesmers are shining! Can't have that!! NERF!!!

Good start to fixing Mesmers, let me flog this dead horse just a little more: FIX F##$$%G VoR!!!

a VoR split and cry of pain revert would be a pretty reasonable request, but reworking every mes skill, making them all pve/pvp split isn't.

but really, my opinion on the whole thing is that mesmers aren't bad enough that they're unable to pve in hm, and it isn't likely to be changed, so it's prob a better idea to suck it up rather than make a buff mesmers thread once a week.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

21 Feb 2010 at 00:43 - 235

i am pretty sure some of the most fun i have in GW is with my mesmer using Mindbender.

Arduin

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

R/

21 Feb 2010 at 00:44 - 236

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Although you conveyed yourself in a crude, obnoxious manner, you have a point. IMO, Anet should do something (after making sure all the SCs are dead) to make elite areas worth playing.

Because you aren't able to SC an elite area anymore, the influx of rare weapons to the game will stagger, making them more valuable, thus providing an incentive for the farmers to play those elite areas.

Turbo Ginsu

I despise facebook

Join Date: Feb 2008

Australia

Meeting of the Lost Minds

Me/

21 Feb 2010 at 00:50 - 237

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

a VoR split and cry of pain revert would be a pretty reasonable request, but reworking every mes skill, making them all pve/pvp split isn't.

I couldn't agree more. My point is simple: We already had limited tools at our disposal for PvE, VoR is just the most glaringly apparent example atm of a skill pointlessly nerfed for reasons completely unrelated to PvE.

See, the thing about VoR is, it was ours. A true Mesmer skill. What was it replaced with? Nothing. In fact, it was double-slapped by nerfing CoP alongside it, rather than simply changing it to rely on the FC attribute, which would have ended any cross-class abuse right there and then. Sure it would still have been useable with SoI, but for non-mes primaries, this would have the effect of limiting it to 12 points(+cons), rather than 16 which only Mesmers can hit.
This might of course, involve re-working the FC line a little, shove a few skills that should always have been there over to it. Bit of work, but aNet have shown in this latest update that they can and do change skills attribute line when it suits them. I ask, why not do the same thing when it suits everyone, and not just them?

Velgre

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2009

Lets Unite Crazy Knights[LUCK]

P/W

21 Feb 2010 at 01:01 - 238

Congratulations! You just ignore stuff and make things worse. It took you guys just 5 months to make such an awesome skill update. I`m sure all the players will it when it comes.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

21 Feb 2010 at 01:08 - 239

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

reworking every class so it's exactly as functional in pve or pvp is probably never going to happen. And mesmers being centered on disruption and caster control isn't effective in pve.

We have already established that caster control in general isn't effective. The never gonna happen part is a pretty lame excuse to not do anything.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

21 Feb 2010 at 01:10 - 240

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Ginsu

I couldn't agree more. My point is simple: We already had limited tools at our disposal for PvE, VoR is just the most glaringly apparent example atm of a skill pointlessly nerfed for reasons completely unrelated to PvE.

See, the thing about VoR is, it was ours. A true Mesmer skill. What was it replaced with? Nothing. In fact, it was double-slapped by nerfing CoP alongside it, rather than simply changing it to rely on the FC attribute, which would have ended any cross-class abuse right there and then. Sure it would still have been useable with SoI, but for non-mes primaries, this would have the effect of limiting it to 12 points(+cons), rather than 16 which only Mesmers can hit.
This might of course, involve re-working the FC line a little, shove a few skills that should always have been there over to it. Bit of work, but aNet have shown in this latest update that they can and do change skills attribute line when it suits them. I ask, why not do the same thing when it suits everyone, and not just them?

Awesome, a rational, intelligent GwG user.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velgre

Congratulations! You just ignore stuff and make things worse. It took you guys just 5 months to make such an awesome skill update. I`m sure all the players will it when it comes.

nothing wrong with mysticism in itself, the problem is more the cause of the poor synergy between skills. cracked armor isn't a big deal. seriously.