For those who have no primary Me or Ne:
What do you think, which profession was more crap last several years and deserved buff in PvE? And when you use heroes, do you use Necro ones or Mesmer ones?
Mesmers vs Necromancers in PvE - which one needed buff?
The Josip
tealspikes
I use mesmer ones.
own age myname
Ever hear of discord?
aspi
Necros crap? I think they are the most used heroes in game. They are not crap but the best.
ac1inferno
For heroes, Necro primaries are definitely used more because of Discordway and Sabway.
Gill Halendt
I never got into Necromancers much and I do agree Mesmers could use some love (my Mesmer is my "secondary main", if that definition makes any sense, but you get the point... 
)
Yet Blood Magic was much easier to buff (and most likely to be appreciated by the public) than any Mesmer attribute.
Everytime they've tried (VoR, IoP, CoP, just to mention a few) they've caused trouble and then they had to go for often clumsy and overcomplicated nerfs.
While I see your point - I never found neither VoR nor CoP to be overpowered by themselves, at least not more than most of the options available to Necros - I also think that the Mesmer profession is so particular that it is also pretty hard to balance, like the Paragon and the Ritualist.
Yet Blood Magic was much easier to buff (and most likely to be appreciated by the public) than any Mesmer attribute.
Everytime they've tried (VoR, IoP, CoP, just to mention a few) they've caused trouble and then they had to go for often clumsy and overcomplicated nerfs.
While I see your point - I never found neither VoR nor CoP to be overpowered by themselves, at least not more than most of the options available to Necros - I also think that the Mesmer profession is so particular that it is also pretty hard to balance, like the Paragon and the Ritualist.
QueenofDeath
I use 3 hero necros and can stomp any 3 hero mesmers with them. 
) Minions and Spirits rule PVE as it's so easy to play PVE with them in the front and just keeping them alive and powered up. Spirit Spamming and Minion Mastering rules!! What can a puny mesmer do? Run like hell and pray a warrior or sin doesn't get on her.
) Minions and Spirits rule PVE as it's so easy to play PVE with them in the front and just keeping them alive and powered up. Spirit Spamming and Minion Mastering rules!! What can a puny mesmer do? Run like hell and pray a warrior or sin doesn't get on her.
jazilla
I think Mesmer is the most useful secondary in the game, and really there is something to be said for that. I can use Mesmer effectively as a secondary on almost every character, if not all of them. I think people tend to forget this about Mesmer: It is really well rounded.
As far as your hero question; Necro. Look up Discord or Sabway.
As far as your hero question; Necro. Look up Discord or Sabway.
Gill Halendt
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Originally Posted by QueenofDeath
What can a puny mesmer do? Run like hell and pray a warrior or sin doesn't get on her.
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upier
You guys are a bunch of meanies!
It's tough being a necro and having that unlimited energy and then nothing to spend it on!
Just not fair!
*pouts*
On topic of heroes:
Ritualists are a must. I go though Splinter faster than a chubby kid though a Happy Meal!
I run mesmers whenever I feel ugly and need to have someone on my team that is fatter than me!
It's tough being a necro and having that unlimited energy and then nothing to spend it on!
Just not fair!
*pouts*
On topic of heroes:
Ritualists are a must. I go though Splinter faster than a chubby kid though a Happy Meal!
I run mesmers whenever I feel ugly and need to have someone on my team that is fatter than me!
kazjun
Well, tease Gwen says hello. Though since we're talking pve, I don't know if this is a serious question or not. I mean, sabway/discord or some theoretical 3 hero mesmer team (we don't even have 3 hero mesmers) is like asking if the sky is blue or the grass is green. The answer is so obvious that you can only think this is a protest topic about no mesmer buffs for pve.
Smarty
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Originally Posted by kazjun
The answer is so obvious that you can only think this is a protest topic about no mesmer buffs for pve.
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Essence Snow
The OP's ? is retorical. He or she is merely drawing attention the the obvious. Mesmers (along with dervs/paras) have been overlooked far more than other classes. At one point mesmers had VoR/CoP but those got canned. Granted CoP still has it's uses, VoR has been pushed back to a secondary choice. Why? b/c mesmers thrive on hexes. If VoR is dependent on have no other hexes cast...then it is junk imo. Now I do enjoy having that tease hero...and in places it rocks...but for using an interrupter build myself....ehh..I think I'll pass for something else.
MagmaRed
I run both. I don't use Sab or Discord (I have used both, but got extremely bored with them), and find a balanced team to work faster for me, and be more fun. I take an MM hero cause MMs in PvE are strong, and I take a Tease interrupter to help deal with the casters you face.
But since you don't really care what people are using, I'll answer the question you meant to ask. Mesmer needs a bigger change than Necro, but I don't see Mesmer as being left in the dust as most people do. Problem isn't that Mesmer isn't effective, but that most people want Mesmer to dish out insane damage, and that isn't where Mesmer shines.
But since you don't really care what people are using, I'll answer the question you meant to ask. Mesmer needs a bigger change than Necro, but I don't see Mesmer as being left in the dust as most people do. Problem isn't that Mesmer isn't effective, but that most people want Mesmer to dish out insane damage, and that isn't where Mesmer shines.
Puebert
I can't believe this was asked.
Mesmers need the buff far more than necros. The only reason you'd want to run a primary mesmer is for FC (which is pretty useless in pve tbh) and runes, but +3 to an attribute isn't worth giving up LOLROFLWUT energy.
Mesmers need the buff far more than necros. The only reason you'd want to run a primary mesmer is for FC (which is pretty useless in pve tbh) and runes, but +3 to an attribute isn't worth giving up LOLROFLWUT energy.
Dzjudz
Necro heroes = access to Soul Reaping, which is superior hero energy management.
Sure, mesmer has inspiration magic for energy gain interrupts and such, but then you need to compromise in the builds. Necro heroes can just spec into soul reaping and then use their bar for dmg and/or healing.
Personally, one of my discord heroes is a N/Me with a few interrupts.
Sure, mesmer has inspiration magic for energy gain interrupts and such, but then you need to compromise in the builds. Necro heroes can just spec into soul reaping and then use their bar for dmg and/or healing.
Personally, one of my discord heroes is a N/Me with a few interrupts.
Xsiriss
Mesmers hands down. Plus the 'buffs' blood magic is recieving is quit shocking (check out barbed signet...).
Windf0rce
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kazjun
The answer is so obvious that you can only think this is a protest topic about no mesmer buffs for pve.
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Anyway, my answer is the obvious one: the inferior profession in PvE is Mesmer and I use 3X Necro heroes everywhere.
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by Puebert
I can't believe this was asked.
Mesmers need the buff far more than necros. The only reason you'd want to run a primary mesmer is for FC (which is pretty useless in pve tbh) and runes, but +3 to an attribute isn't worth giving up LOLROFLWUT energy. |
Cuilan
Mesmers don't have the massive amount of team synergy that is still be pushed in the updates.
They are incapable of any real disruption using mesmer skills.
Mesmers have spike builds that require a tank that work (see SoS, Ob, SF, and 600 nerfs), but it's spike because they are unable to handle both energy, decent level of damage, and recharge in the same build. Necromancers can have their cake and eat it too. And your friend's cake.
Fevered Dreams could have been a game changing build (aka something worth using) for them, however the lack of energy over shadows the advantage of getting conditions up faster and blind from having an elementalist secondary.
They are incapable of any real disruption using mesmer skills.
Mesmers have spike builds that require a tank that work (see SoS, Ob, SF, and 600 nerfs), but it's spike because they are unable to handle both energy, decent level of damage, and recharge in the same build. Necromancers can have their cake and eat it too. And your friend's cake.
Fevered Dreams could have been a game changing build (aka something worth using) for them, however the lack of energy over shadows the advantage of getting conditions up faster and blind from having an elementalist secondary.
aspi
Ah Now that I read it again it does have a certain sarcasm ring to it. doh
Cuilan
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Originally Posted by Puebert
The only reason you'd want to run a primary mesmer is for FC (which is pretty useless in pve tbh)
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This efficiency has been given freely to other professions from weapon mods, cons, and Mindbender. They may not be build in, but they are available to all and many times higher than what most mesmers have their fast casting set to (mine is never bellow 9).
The Mad Addict
My necro owns pve so not sure what is going on here.
Eragon Zarroc
necros bloodmagic is weak. buff it.
Cuilan
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Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc
necros bloodmagic is weak. buff it.
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drkn
Quote:
| I think Mesmer is the most useful secondary in the game, and really there is something to be said for that. I can use Mesmer effectively as a secondary on almost every character, if not all of them. I think people tend to forget this about Mesmer: It is really well rounded. |
Quote:
| Problem isn't that Mesmer isn't effective, but that most people want Mesmer to dish out insane damage, and that isn't where Mesmer shines. |
my main mesmer would like to learn it, finally.
Chthon
On a class-balance level, it's pretty obvious that mesmers need a buff.
On an attribute-line-balance level, it's equally obvious that blood needed a buff.
Blood is out and out worse than dom, ill, or insp. (Though it's pretty hard for anything to be worse than FC.)
I'll agree that several classes and attribute-lines that are in need of serious help got totally ignored. However, I don't think that buffing blood was at all a bad decision.
On an attribute-line-balance level, it's equally obvious that blood needed a buff.
Blood is out and out worse than dom, ill, or insp. (Though it's pretty hard for anything to be worse than FC.)
I'll agree that several classes and attribute-lines that are in need of serious help got totally ignored. However, I don't think that buffing blood was at all a bad decision.
akio pwns
no its just obvious, mes need buff. Look what they are going to do with rits... its not even fair.
In addition i think its anets fault that paragons and dervishes are weak in terms of farming and team play. They only gave them their "set" skills in nf and 12 more or so in eotn. While other classes like assassins, monks,eles, rits have 2 or more expansions which gave them additional skills.
blood magic doesnt need buff for pve. Its solid as it is. Other areas of the game need to be improved(proffesion skills)
In addition i think its anets fault that paragons and dervishes are weak in terms of farming and team play. They only gave them their "set" skills in nf and 12 more or so in eotn. While other classes like assassins, monks,eles, rits have 2 or more expansions which gave them additional skills.
blood magic doesnt need buff for pve. Its solid as it is. Other areas of the game need to be improved(proffesion skills)
FengShuiDove
...you're kidding, right?
Good Mesmer builds exist for PvE hero and player, but they're far less malleable and all-encompassing than Necro builds, whose Soul Reaping and Signet of Lost Souls make them able to efficiently run any caster bar in the game.
A good Mesmer interrupter or punisher (think Domination) can be invaluable, but overall, Mesmers are locked into a few good skills, while Necros can employ the entire gamut of caster skills quite easily.
Blood Magic being pretty much the only exception, Necros are far better. And here we have a Blood Magic "buff" pending. In my opinion, PvE Mesmers and Dervs should be next on the list for buffs.
Good Mesmer builds exist for PvE hero and player, but they're far less malleable and all-encompassing than Necro builds, whose Soul Reaping and Signet of Lost Souls make them able to efficiently run any caster bar in the game.
A good Mesmer interrupter or punisher (think Domination) can be invaluable, but overall, Mesmers are locked into a few good skills, while Necros can employ the entire gamut of caster skills quite easily.
Blood Magic being pretty much the only exception, Necros are far better. And here we have a Blood Magic "buff" pending. In my opinion, PvE Mesmers and Dervs should be next on the list for buffs.
Puebert
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Originally Posted by Cuilan
Speed is efficiency. You can get whatever spell up and in effect faster. Fast casting is weak because of the recharge times and energy.
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athariel
At least necros are wanted for manly spike groups, mesmers can smite >_> eles are unwanted everywhere
Dzjudz
Another weak point of mesmer heroes is that both of the primary functions of most mesmer builds (hexing and interrupting) are executed terribly by heroes. They don't know what hex to cast on which foe and which interrupt to use when.
Trader of Secrets
Me needs a more general pve buff.
maxxfury
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Originally Posted by Puebert
I can't believe this was asked.
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I think the question really should have been,
should the necro blood magic line have gotten priority over the mesmer in general for the patch?
As we all know the mes has FAR fewer viable options than a necro does.
Winterclaw
Mesmers, judging by the number of PvE vanqing builds that use necros vs the number of ones using mesmers.
Desert Rose
Why always buff everything? One reason why mesmers only have limited use in PvE (HM) is because of powercreep.
Cuilan
Does a large nerf list seem like something Anet would do? Would that be wise considering the various play styles and levels of play ability of players?
maxxfury
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Originally Posted by Desert Rose
Why always buff everything? One reason why mesmers only have limited use in PvE (HM) is because of powercreep.
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Some of the more powerful stuff needs to be toned down, but also, some of the weaker stuff need buffing up a little to achieve balance. In future we kinda need more gentle skill balancing than that mad dartboard buffs that we have seen in recent years, that lead to what we got now.
But for sure, the past amount of OP buffs have caused todays situation, and there are no two ways around that fact.
Will we see a mass nerf bomb? reversing the power creep? not likley..
So most people calling for a buff, want a comparative buff for the underpowered stuff..to level the playing field..
cthulhu reborn
I think anyone who says that mesmers need more love because everybody uses necro heroes is dumb.
A mesmer has always been a very unusual class that is a lot harder to run properly on AI. The sabway and discord builds that run around are easy for the AI to get. And those builds are built on repetition. When I play my necro, or rather one of em, I hate playing MM cause it's kinda boring. So leave it to the AI I figure.
But just cause you can make a nice AI army with necro's doesn't mean they are great to play as a player.
I used to play blood builds with my main necro because I liked it and over time it got completely nerfed to bits even though blood was for a long time considered crap. It's about friggin time they did something nice for blood magic.
Now mesmers are trickier to play, I do agree with that, but my mesmer has always been very effective in PvE.
As a side note I do play Gwen a lot when I run my Paragon, because admittedly she tends to be the first to get killed but with my Imbagon build she's fine and can do a lot of damage (VOR build).
But let's be honest when it comes to necro's...most people use sabway in pve and not necro players.
A mesmer has always been a very unusual class that is a lot harder to run properly on AI. The sabway and discord builds that run around are easy for the AI to get. And those builds are built on repetition. When I play my necro, or rather one of em, I hate playing MM cause it's kinda boring. So leave it to the AI I figure.
But just cause you can make a nice AI army with necro's doesn't mean they are great to play as a player.
I used to play blood builds with my main necro because I liked it and over time it got completely nerfed to bits even though blood was for a long time considered crap. It's about friggin time they did something nice for blood magic.
Now mesmers are trickier to play, I do agree with that, but my mesmer has always been very effective in PvE.
As a side note I do play Gwen a lot when I run my Paragon, because admittedly she tends to be the first to get killed but with my Imbagon build she's fine and can do a lot of damage (VOR build).
But let's be honest when it comes to necro's...most people use sabway in pve and not necro players.
Daft Shifty
Quote:
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Originally Posted by QueenofDeath
I use 3 hero necros and can stomp any 3 hero mesmers with them.
) Minions and Spirits rule PVE as it's so easy to play PVE with them in the front and just keeping them alive and powered up. Spirit Spamming and Minion Mastering rules!! What can a puny mesmer do? Run like hell and pray a warrior or sin doesn't get on her. |