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Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
Sure, something should be done. Something meaningful. I don't think dumbing down the game again is it tough.
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Mesmer Speculation
G4ymBoy
Cuilan
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Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
Sure, something should be done. Something meaningful. I don't think dumbing down the game again is it tough.
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That's pretty much how I read your post.
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by G4ymBoy
I agree but i dont think more power creep is the answer either. I want my mesmer to stay mesmery...just with more AoE >.> AoE Ineptitude anyone?
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Gill Halendt
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Originally Posted by Cuilan
Sure, let's keep the game lacking balance. Every profession should be powerful except a select few. They should be buffed just enough to shut the players up but not enough to where they're in my groups.
That's pretty much how I read your post. |
So, improvements to the Mesmer are fine with me. Whatever helps them to fill some role better is fine either. No idiotic, overpowered, me-too solutions tough. There's enough "iWin buttons" in this game already, I don't want the Mesmer to be turned into the next one, at least not without a complete overhaul of the game (made significantly harder) that justifies the introduction of another "build for dummies".
aeronox
What I think the main objectives should be:
1) To not make the team disadvantaged by bringing a Mesmer instead of another class.
2) To keep the style of Mesmer play in line with its theme(s).
What's involved in such a change:
ArenaNet / Guild Wars Live Team resources; screening suggestions, evaluating the impact in PvE/PvP, review and approval process, programming skill changes, AI behaviour, AI builds, localization, QA and testing, TK testing and feedback, pushing to Live update, fixing bugs.
(I put this together from memory and guesswork, I could be wrong)
What are the options?
A) Buff key Mesmer skills; or
B) Nerf key skills from Warriors, Elementalists, Monks, Necromancers, Ritualists; or
C) Change PvE AI teams, builds and behaviours
Which do you think is most likely to happen?
1) To not make the team disadvantaged by bringing a Mesmer instead of another class.
2) To keep the style of Mesmer play in line with its theme(s).
What's involved in such a change:
ArenaNet / Guild Wars Live Team resources; screening suggestions, evaluating the impact in PvE/PvP, review and approval process, programming skill changes, AI behaviour, AI builds, localization, QA and testing, TK testing and feedback, pushing to Live update, fixing bugs.
(I put this together from memory and guesswork, I could be wrong)
What are the options?
A) Buff key Mesmer skills; or
B) Nerf key skills from Warriors, Elementalists, Monks, Necromancers, Ritualists; or
C) Change PvE AI teams, builds and behaviours
Which do you think is most likely to happen?
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by aeronox
What I think the main objectives should be:
1) To not make the team disadvantaged by bringing a Mesmer instead of another class. 2) To keep the style of Mesmer play in line with its theme(s). What's involved in such a change: ArenaNet / Guild Wars Live Team resources; screening suggestions, evaluating the impact in PvE/PvP, review and approval process, programming skill changes, AI behaviour, AI builds, localization, QA and testing, TK testing and feedback, pushing to Live update, fixing bugs. (I put this together from memory and guesswork, I could be wrong) What are the options? A) Buff key Mesmer skills; or B) Nerf key skills from Warriors, Elementalists, Monks, Necromancers, Ritualists; or C) Change PvE AI teams, builds and behaviours Which do you think is most likely to happen? |
aeronox
You're wrong. Overpowered healing and damage negation removes the need for shutting down offense.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Seed_of_Life - Healing Seed for the whole team
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Unyielding_Aura - Healing bonus with instant fully charged Rebirth
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Selfless_Spirit - Spam away
But you are partly right, Monks aren't the biggest offenders.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Seed_of_Life - Healing Seed for the whole team
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Unyielding_Aura - Healing bonus with instant fully charged Rebirth
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Selfless_Spirit - Spam away
But you are partly right, Monks aren't the biggest offenders.
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by aeronox
You're wrong. Overpowered healing and damage negation removes the need for shutting down offense.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Seed_of_Life - Healing Seed for the whole team http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Unyielding_Aura - Healing bonus with instant fully charged Rebirth http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Selfless_Spirit - Spam away But you are partly right, Monks aren't the biggest offenders. |
examples
You get a Diversion off on a eles Invoke Lightning in HM, he dies before it recharged anyway, even if he wasn't the target of the group
You hex something with panic, well GG its not really going to matter
You power block something, useful but in HM its too hard to do consistently due to the lag in GW now adays in pve and the NPCs casting time on most skills.
Rather monks are OP or not, mesmers are still being useless, not to mention people use other types of "shutdown" all the time that are actually useful, such as minions, spirits, knock-downs ect that dont necessarily req any skill, yet help the group more than trying to shut down something as a mesmer. Should these other types of shutdown be nerfed? imo no. Mesmer would still be a unwelcome member in the party without Pve skills, yet you can't just buff mesmer skills alone because then you'll just get a bunch of N/Mes using the newly powerful mesmer skills. Which is why I suggested this, plz pay more attention to the concepts not the green numbers
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
Agreed, imo most of the problems for mesmers are due to HM casting times ect. Removing the cast time would make mesmers more wanted (in my mind set anyway) for sitting on eles ect, stopping that double damage would be worth having a mesmer to me.
I also think interrupting should have better effects in pve, for example Power flux, if target foe is interrupted target foes nearby take 15 damage for each rank in fast casting Here are some other basic ideas I'd like to see. Dom Panic, hex target foe with panic for 10 secs next spell that foe uses fails. If a spell fails target foe gets knocked down every 2 secs for each rank in fast casting. Backfire now hexes all foes nearby if fast casting is above 4 (this also will encourage player monks to take hex removal rather than a bar full of heals... hopefully...) Diversion now hexes all foes nearby if fast casting is above 4, and skill backfires on the caster. Shame/Guilt now cause 8 damage for each rank in fast casting as well. Ill Conjure Nightmare/Phantasm now also causes 4 damage each sec to adjacent foes for each rank in fast casting Imagined Burden now hexes all foes in the area if Fast casting is above 4 (imo would allow for more team work because it allows melee to have less down time when a mob moves away, as well is allows your casters to kite in HM) Clumsiness skills (or skills like them) cause 2 damage to nearby foes for each rank in fast casting Insp Channeling, enchants party members if FC is above 4 Ether lord, hex target foe with either lord, allies nearby gain 1 energy for each rank in fast casting whenever that foe cast a spell. Spirit Shackles target foe loses 5 energy whenever it attacks. The ally who that foe is attacking gains 5 energy if your fast casting is above 4 |
Morphy
Yay, more power creep in PvE. Ah well, keeps the PvE-ers happy.
drkn
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Originally Posted by Morphy
Yay, more power creep in PvE. Ah well, keeps the PvE-ers happy.
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You get a Diversion off on a eles Invoke Lightning in HM, he dies before it recharged anyway, even if he wasn't the target of the group You hex something with panic, well GG its not really going to matter |
Regina Buenaobra
Skill update preview with preliminary Mesmer changes have been posted on the wiki: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...pdate_previews
Arduin
Yo! Sweetness!
Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
Skill update preview with preliminary Mesmer changes have been posted on the wiki: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...pdate_previews
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~12 Charrrrrss
Shadowkiller Seth
Okay to make a class more powerful? hmm we take all skills and add aoe dmg
IlikeGW
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Originally Posted by Shadowkiller Seth
Okay to make a class more powerful? hmm we take all skills and add aoe dmg
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JDRyder
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
Skill update preview with preliminary Mesmer changes have been posted on the wiki: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...pdate_previews
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Smarty
Currently eating my hat about no changes to the AI in HM whilst drooling over the buffed elites.
I hope that being able to run 14+ dom/illu/insp and having FC rather than Mindbender makes these lovely-sounding buffs vastly more desirable on a mes primary than on secondary so that the update does its intended job of improving the PvE mesmer's lot in life. Nice work so far, ANet/Krewe.
I hope that being able to run 14+ dom/illu/insp and having FC rather than Mindbender makes these lovely-sounding buffs vastly more desirable on a mes primary than on secondary so that the update does its intended job of improving the PvE mesmer's lot in life. Nice work so far, ANet/Krewe.
Gill Halendt
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Originally Posted by Smarty
Currently eating my hat about no changes to the AI in HM whilst drooling over the buffed elites.
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Smarty
Exactly. Pass me the salt please.
Raynb
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
Skill update preview with preliminary Mesmer changes have been posted on the wiki: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...pdate_previews
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But I have to ask something Regina. Most of the significant damage changes goes in one of the attribute lines that any secondary Mesmer have access to, and especially in illusion attribute with lots of new powerfull skills.
Have A.net tought in the really big possibility of anyone with Mesmer as secondary profession being equally able and efficient to play the role of a Mesmer primary at High-End PvE? (Cry of Pain being one good example of it btw)
Can something be done so when the balance finally goes live primary Mesmers have a considerable advantage over secondaries using Mesmers skills?
Sorry if I was hard to understand but I got really worried with this issue and I hope A.net can give some attention at this. And once again, thanks for this nice Mesmer balance
Morphy
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Originally Posted by drkn
I love your posts, sir. They are sooo predictable, especially in PvE-related threads. It's always the very same line.
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EPO Bot
Bring on the creep. I play this game to wield powers, not to compete for E peen.
G4ymBoy
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Originally Posted by G4ymBoy
I want my mesmer to stay mesmery...just with more AoE >.> AoE Ineptitude anyone?
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Called it. <3
Cuilan
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Originally Posted by Morphy
That's because that is everything that can rationally be said about this PvE creep.
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Originally Posted by aeronox
What are the options?
A) Buff key Mesmer skills; or B) Nerf key skills from Warriors, Elementalists, Monks, Necromancers, Ritualists; or C) Change PvE AI teams, builds and behaviours Which do you think is most likely to happen? |
Morphy
B and C should be applied to the entire game, but that would take ages to do.
Steps_Descending
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Originally Posted by Raynb
WOW, really nice changes! Makes me really wish to play as a Mesmer at PvE and things look nice on the future!
But I have to ask something Regina. Most of the significant damage changes goes in one of the attribute lines that any secondary Mesmer have access to, and especially in illusion attribute with lots of new powerfull skills. Have A.net tought in the really big possibility of anyone with Mesmer as secondary profession being equally able and efficient to play the role of a Mesmer primary at High-End PvE? (Cry of Pain being one good example of it btw) Can something be done so when the balance finally goes live primary Mesmers have a considerable advantage over secondaries using Mesmers skills? Sorry if I was hard to understand but I got really worried with this issue and I hope A.net can give some attention at this. And once again, thanks for this nice Mesmer balance |
And, from a casual player's standpoint, even if mesmers primary aren't the best. Just being able to be useful while playing in the style of a mesmer will be fun. Even if it's just your friends and guild who accept you without having to talk your way into the group.
aeronox
mmhmm...
I just used Mistrust on that guy! His spell failed! And I did 71 damage! Now just you wait 20 seconds until it recharges!
*watches while the team obliterates the next 4 mobs*
Yeah, I love contributing to the team...
I just used Mistrust on that guy! His spell failed! And I did 71 damage! Now just you wait 20 seconds until it recharges!
*watches while the team obliterates the next 4 mobs*
Yeah, I love contributing to the team...
R_Frost
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Originally Posted by Morphy
B and C should be applied to the entire game, but that would take ages to do.
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Morphy
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Originally Posted by R_Frost
they have had ages to do C. hard mode was added to GW on 4/19/07 yet most of the key issues in HM still exist 3 years later. getting them to fix HM now just isnt going to happen. it was easier to start the power creep in the skill updates and give us overpowered PvE skills then go through the game over the last 3 years and make changes to the mob make up or their skill bars.
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Coast
Change the Virtuoso's Armor +15 (while activating skills) in:
+15armor while not casting
OR
+1armor for every rank of fast casting u got(10fc=+10al)
That way mesmers will be hard to kill in pvp and pve.
The hex eater vortex revert that karate jesus was talking about seems to be a nice idea.(nice against those hexbuilds or just nice in pve also)
+15armor while not casting
OR
+1armor for every rank of fast casting u got(10fc=+10al)
That way mesmers will be hard to kill in pvp and pve.
The hex eater vortex revert that karate jesus was talking about seems to be a nice idea.(nice against those hexbuilds or just nice in pve also)
Absolute Destiny
I like most of the changes on the preview page.
Having just recently started a PvE Mesmer (in anticipation of the coming changes), and having fun with her focusing on Domination Magic, I'd like to see Fast Casting become the Energy Management attribute for Mesmers, just like Energy Storage and Soul Reaping do for Elementalists and Necromancers, respectively.
The main weakness I'm seeing playing PvE (and not playing PvP in any way) is that all those lovely interrupts blow through energy WAAAY too quickly, so that mistiming an interrupt = nothing left to throw at an enemy who might have waited to use its "omgpartywipe" skill.
Maybe rework Fast Casting to reduce casting time AND give back a percentage of energy every time a spell/signet is used.
I also liked someone's idea earlier of switching several Inspiration skills to Fast Casting, because at the moment Inspiration is the primary energy management attribute for Mesmers, and trying to use them means pumping attribute points into Inspiration which could have been used to make (in my case) Domination spells more powerful.
I also love the idea of giving interrupting skills an instant recharge if you use them successfully.
Having just recently started a PvE Mesmer (in anticipation of the coming changes), and having fun with her focusing on Domination Magic, I'd like to see Fast Casting become the Energy Management attribute for Mesmers, just like Energy Storage and Soul Reaping do for Elementalists and Necromancers, respectively.
The main weakness I'm seeing playing PvE (and not playing PvP in any way) is that all those lovely interrupts blow through energy WAAAY too quickly, so that mistiming an interrupt = nothing left to throw at an enemy who might have waited to use its "omgpartywipe" skill.
Maybe rework Fast Casting to reduce casting time AND give back a percentage of energy every time a spell/signet is used.
I also liked someone's idea earlier of switching several Inspiration skills to Fast Casting, because at the moment Inspiration is the primary energy management attribute for Mesmers, and trying to use them means pumping attribute points into Inspiration which could have been used to make (in my case) Domination spells more powerful.
I also love the idea of giving interrupting skills an instant recharge if you use them successfully.
Skyy High
Well, making FC lower recharges (like it looks like it's going to, according to the "leaked" build) will somewhat make it better for energy management, as all your e-management skills recharge a heck of a lot faster...
ilr
...only if you crank it up to lvl 15 (45%) and then run a Celerity on top of it.
Meanwhile most ele's are getting more with only 2 skills and necros are getting atleast half that amount with no skills at all.
Speculating purely on PvE performance, I think the *best* possible outcome we can hope for is that some kind of almost-workable tank&spank with Instability or Panic spamming where the mesmers would still need bonders or a imbagon backing them up at which point it's still a lot simpler and faster to just bring more A/E's or Terra's instead.
Nothing's really gonna change here till they make Shadowform actually do what its description says it's supposed to do(IoW: also prevent DoT's from exceeding 20-something damage while no longer exploiting Ebon SOH); and Mantra of Earth (plus all others like it) moved into Fastcasting as well. Right now an Ele or Nec or Sin with Celerity and Redrock does a mesmer's job better than a mesmer can and it looks this skill update doesn't plan on changing that a whole lot.
Meanwhile most ele's are getting more with only 2 skills and necros are getting atleast half that amount with no skills at all.
Speculating purely on PvE performance, I think the *best* possible outcome we can hope for is that some kind of almost-workable tank&spank with Instability or Panic spamming where the mesmers would still need bonders or a imbagon backing them up at which point it's still a lot simpler and faster to just bring more A/E's or Terra's instead.
Nothing's really gonna change here till they make Shadowform actually do what its description says it's supposed to do(IoW: also prevent DoT's from exceeding 20-something damage while no longer exploiting Ebon SOH); and Mantra of Earth (plus all others like it) moved into Fastcasting as well. Right now an Ele or Nec or Sin with Celerity and Redrock does a mesmer's job better than a mesmer can and it looks this skill update doesn't plan on changing that a whole lot.
Cuilan
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
Well, making FC lower recharges (like it looks like it's going to, according to the "leaked" build) will somewhat make it better for energy management, as all your e-management skills recharge a heck of a lot faster...
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NilePenguin
Yep, non-mesmer energy gain won't be viable anymore since it doesn't scale along. Maybe that means that some inspiration spells will be more worth it than GoLE now, though.
agrios
Anyway, it sux if FC will not affect other prof spells under 2 seconds. One key concept of mezzies are theyre being able to do things faster than others.
If it really comes to pass, then soul reap could only fuel necro spells, sins getting crit bonus only from daggers and so on.
ironically speaking, that would make things more GW2 like...one profession driven..
If it really comes to pass, then soul reap could only fuel necro spells, sins getting crit bonus only from daggers and so on.
ironically speaking, that would make things more GW2 like...one profession driven..
Cuilan
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Originally Posted by agrios
ironically speaking, that would make things more GW2 like...one profession driven..
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ilr
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Originally Posted by NilePenguin
Yep, non-mesmer energy gain won't be viable anymore since it doesn't scale along. Maybe that means that some inspiration spells will be more worth it than GoLE now, though.
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The only fairness about this update is that CoP & Nightmare take longer to recharge for SF'ers & Terras who won't have those skills available on recharge when solo farmin anymore.
Eragon Zarroc
this is gonna make mesmer mobs in PvE a bitch to deal with >_< *sigh*
FoxBat
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Originally Posted by ilr
In all...this update doesn't make mesmers more viable for SC's
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