Was termination really appropriate? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Zarion Silverarrow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Puerto Rico

The Annunaki Interventionists

P/W

28 May 2010 at 17:53 - 321

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

you are here to get someone, ANYONE to say unban you, not to discuss it, it was effectivly discussed, the answer seems to be you deserve it. just on the numbers i've seen. so there is your answer, hopefully a mod will close this soon. you are only here to discuss just your case, thought this was a community forum, not a Zarion Silverarrow forum. get over your self already

If I knew of any other case I would talk about it....I only know of 2,mine and a friend's. But said friend doesn't give a fly's butt about GW anymore,so I'm not gona work my @$$ off for him,since he's not going to use the account anyways.

And keep in mind,said friend has never used any third party program,not even textmod....

And most of the attacks against me have been using ASSUPMTIONS like that I am lying,or that I am here for another reason that I'm not saying...when you find a propper way to say I'm wrong without making stuff up,then you'l have my respect

Firebaall

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 May 2010 at 17:54 - 322

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

...The only reason I am banned (IMO,and the opinon of about 40% of people here that agree with me) is because A-net can't tell if I botted for 10 years or 10 seconds.

No,I don't consider the action of walking for a few seconds to be "Gameplay"

If you botted for 10 seconds, you should have reported yourself. Since you didn't send anything to support about what you did, you don't deserve to be treated any different than anybody else that botted.

Matter of fact is, you broke the rules and you hoped that you got away with it.

Kydd

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

[eyes]

28 May 2010 at 17:54 - 323

The fact that anet has to spend resources on you and others like you costs money. If they didn't have to do this they could put more resources into skill balance and new content. Do you not see that as hurting others?

I do not think you should be unbanned for above reason.

Riot Narita

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

28 May 2010 at 17:56 - 324

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

now tell me,how does that affect your gameplay?

People already posted how even the act of downloading a bot has a detrimental effect on other players. And also how people like you are wasting support time that would be better spent on people who aren't cheats. You choose to ignore that, and repeat the same question over and over. As if you can justify your actions by finding someone that wasn't directly affected by your cheating.

It doesn't matter whether you affected me personally, directly or indirectly... a lot, a little, or not at all. You chose to break the rules, you got the correct and appropriate punishment - exactly as advertised. That's nothing to do with me. It's between you and A-Net.

Zarion Silverarrow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Puerto Rico

The Annunaki Interventionists

P/W

28 May 2010 at 17:57 - 325

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

If you botted for 10 seconds, you should have reported yourself. Since you didn't send anything to support about what you did, you don't deserve to be treated any different than anybody else that botted.

Matter of fact is, you broke the rules and you hoped that you got away with it.

Thats a problem I accept...

My understanding was that,and still is in part,that boting itself isn't bad UNTIL you gain 1gold,1 pt in any title,or any sort of advantage over someone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot Narita

People already posted how even the act of downloading a bot has a detrimental effect on other players. And also how people like are wasting support time that would be better spent on people who aren't cheats. You choose to ignore that, and repeat the same question over and over. As if you can justify your actions by finding someone that wasn't directly affected by your cheating.

It doesn't matter whether you affected me personally, directly or indirectly... a lot, a little, or not at all. You chose to break the rules, you got the correct and appropriate punishment - exactly as advertised. That's nothing to do with me. It's between you and A-Net.

The "your gameplay" was directed to Kydd,hence the quoting of his post.

cormac ap dunn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2007

Mystic Empires III [xMEx]

Me/

28 May 2010 at 18:01 - 326

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

If I knew of any other case I would talk about it....I only know of 2,mine and a friend's. But said friend doesn't give a fly's butt about GW anymore,so I'm not gona work my @$$ off for him,since he's not going to use the account anyways.

And keep in mind,said friend has never used any third party program,not even textmod....

And most of the attacks against me have been using ASSUPMTIONS like that I am lying,or that I am here for another reason that I'm not saying...when you find a propper way to say I'm wrong without making stuff up,then you'l have my respect

ok ok, man you ADMITTED you used a bot, but you feel you, and only you should be let go, because you alone are justified in using it... the point is you used it, for ten seconds or ten years, you used it. ever wonder if your friend doesn't care because he may be guilty? we know you are guilty. i am sorry you can't play with us anymore, i am, do i believe you wouldn't do it again? i do, you are working so hard to get your account back. but in the end it likely isn't going to happen, at least not with that account. perhaps if you ask support, they will allow you to get another account, assuming they didn't IP ban you, you could start fresh, new account, new outlook on the game.

Firebaall

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 May 2010 at 18:03 - 327

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

Thats a problem I accept...

My understanding was that,and still is in part,that boting itself isn't bad UNTIL you gain 1gold,1 pt in any title,or any sort of advantage over someone.

The "your gameplay" was directed to Kydd,hence the quoting of his post.

And why would you have an understanding like that? What do you have for the basis of understanding that you must profit in someway before action should be taken?

You compromised the game and broke the rules. How could you even fathom a thought that you were allowed to do as you please, as long as you did not profit in some manner?

Sorry, but your "understanding" is reason enough to not want you back in this game.

Nerel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2008

Australia, what you want my home address?

[CAT]

Mo/

28 May 2010 at 18:04 - 328

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

I don't care about how it affected my gameplay, nor does ANET, it's about how you affected your own gameplay, did you choose to bot is a yes or no question.

I'm pretty sure Anet does care about how botting impacts other players enjoyment of the game, and their sense of fairness and a level playing field... you know, it's kind of how they make money... by getting us to want to play their game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

This reminds me of how to catch a predator I ONLY CAME HERE TO WARN HER!1111

Dude, I didn't know she was under age...

She told me that she was over eighteen!

And I always believe everything that children tell me...

Bandwagon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2010

D/

28 May 2010 at 18:07 - 329

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

My understanding was that,and still is in part,that boting itself isn't bad UNTIL you gain 1gold,1 pt in any title,or any sort of advantage over someone.

The EULA does not care about what you gained or lost when botting. The fact of the matter is, you used the program, and now you are paying the consequences.

Sorry for your loss, assuming your story is true.

Zarion Silverarrow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Puerto Rico

The Annunaki Interventionists

P/W

28 May 2010 at 18:10 - 330

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon

The EULA does not care about what you gained or lost when botting. The fact of the matter is, you used the program, and now you are paying the consequences.

And I realize that...that is why I'm directly contacting A-net...I mean,who would have thought of adding something on the EULA about botting 10 seconds...theres probably about 5% of the 3700 people banned with my problem.

Resolving that 5%,using the EULA,would be to much work and loss of resources in other things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon

Sorry for your loss, assuming your story is true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kharmin

Stupid hind-sight. Always 20/20.

Hopefully for Z S, support will review the case and rule in Z S's favor.

Thanks,nice to see people with a bit of understanding here.

Firebaall

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 May 2010 at 18:21 - 331

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

And I realize that...that is why I'm directly contacting A-net...I mean,who would have thought of adding something on the EULA about botting 10 seconds...theres probably about 5% of the 3700 people banned with my problem.

Resolving that 5%,using the EULA,would be to much work and loss of resources in other things.

Thanks,nice to see people with a bit of understanding here.

Since you're so keen on making your condition so public, I'd like to see the letter to support, and their response. Post it.

Zarion Silverarrow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Puerto Rico

The Annunaki Interventionists

P/W

28 May 2010 at 18:22 - 332

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

Since you're so keen on making your condition so public, I'd like to see the letter to support, and their response. Post it.

Response (Martina) 05/26/2010 10:34 PM
Hello,

Thank you for contacting the Guild Wars Support Team.

I am escalating your ticket to our Guild Wars senior staff members to assist you further. Once they have reviewed your question, one of them will contact you as soon as possible.

Regards,
GM Martina
The Guild Wars Support Team

Latest one.

I just want everyone to know;I don't hate GW,guru,anet,ncsoft,etc....If theres anyone to blame I know its me but I still hold on to my opinion

Firebaall

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 May 2010 at 18:25 - 333

That's not what you sent. I want to see your personal letter, and reasoning as to why you should be let back on Guild Wars.

Maglama

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2010

Virginia

28 May 2010 at 18:25 - 334

I don't see why people are so worked up about it. This happened to me when my account was terminated for payment fraud. It was easily resolved with a simple email to support stating my innocence. My gameplay then resumed without me wasting time QQing about being wrongfully accused. This is a video game. Stop crying and get something done.

Firebaall

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 May 2010 at 18:29 - 335

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maglama

I don't see why people are so worked up about it. This happened to me when my account was terminated for payment fraud. It was easily resolved with a simple email to support stating my innocence. My gameplay then resumed without me wasting time QQing about being wrongfully accused. This is a video game. Stop crying and get something done.

Apples and Oranges.

You were wrongfully accused. These botters, were not.

~ Angel ~

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

Ohio, USA

Slash afk[afk]

28 May 2010 at 18:29 - 336

I see it this way...it's *kind of* like you were caught in possession of an illegal weapon (please no digression to gun control issues, lol). Unless you can unequivocally prove to the judge (Anet) that you never used that weapon (the bot prog) for any wrong doing, you are nothing but a botter to them. And even then, they may not be sympathetic to you.

Zarion Silverarrow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Puerto Rico

The Annunaki Interventionists

P/W

28 May 2010 at 18:29 - 337

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

That's not what you sent. I want to see your personal letter, and reasoning as to why you should be let back on Guild Wars.

As you said,its personal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maglama

I don't see why people are so worked up about it. This happened to me when my account was terminated for payment fraud. It was easily resolved with a simple email to support stating my innocence. My gameplay then resumed without me wasting time QQing about being wrongfully accused. This is a video game. Stop crying and get something done.

I already sent an email...I don't consider discussing this issue as wasting time....whether or not I post here is irrelevant as to i get unbanned or not...I know that,I'm just discussing..

Maglama

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2010

Virginia

28 May 2010 at 18:36 - 338

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

Apples and Oranges.

You were wrongfully accused. These botters, were not.

I'm referring to the ones who said they weren't guilty of botting, of course.

Firebaall

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 May 2010 at 18:39 - 339

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

As you said,its personal.

Then stop trying to drum up support for your case here.

What I hear from you: Please....unban me! Guru people, don't you think I deserve another chance? I only cheated a little bit!

What you use it for: See Anet support? The community thinks you're being to harsh on me...read this thread...

I see manipulation here, and I'm not suprised by it.

Ninja Ninja

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

W/

28 May 2010 at 18:39 - 340

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maglama

I'm referring to the ones who said they weren't guilty of botting, of course.

I think just about all of them are crying innocent.
Zarion did bot so he deserves his perma ban, how long he did it is irrelevant.

Firebaall

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 May 2010 at 18:41 - 341

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maglama

I'm referring to the ones who said they weren't guilty of botting, of course.

And you're right on the money.

Quietly contacting support is the only/best solution. These people crying about being unjustly banned for only cheating "a little", and it being too harsh is what the comments are being directed at.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

28 May 2010 at 18:42 - 342

Except when dealing with players' behavioural issues (eg. racial slur, scam, inappropriate character name), where they have some margin for pedagogical intents, pretty much every other breach of the EULA involving attempts to have the upper hand over the service provider is punished with a permanent suspension.

So, to me, this measure is not surprising at all.

Maglama

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2010

Virginia

28 May 2010 at 18:43 - 343

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

I think just about all of them are crying innocent.
Zarion did bot so he deserves his perma ban, how long he did it is irrelevant.

I'm sure Zarion is not the only one in the guilt boat if he really is responsible for botting.

Firebaall

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 May 2010 at 18:47 - 344

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Except when dealing with players' behavioural issues (eg. racial slur, scam, inappropriate character name), where they have some margin for pedagogical intents, pretty much every other breach of the EULA involving attempts to have the upper hand over the service provider is punished with a permanent suspension.

So, to me, this measure is not surprising at all.

Those actions against other players through words alone are worthy of the guiding hand that a temp ban provides.

A direct attack on the service itself deserves the full monty.

Zarion Silverarrow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Puerto Rico

The Annunaki Interventionists

P/W

28 May 2010 at 18:48 - 345

Assumptions...Prove to me I boted for more than I'm saying...If I was to lie,why not just go ahead and say I didn't bot?

And I'm not trying to do this a loud way,this is a discussion thread and I have the right,as do all of you,to discuss.

Also,if we are going to keep comparing this to IRL situations,then....

Doesn't the police look @ your record when you get a ticket for speeding? If that is your 1st offence,they won't treat you the same as if you killed someone and had robbed a bank before.

Mr. Undisclosed

I phail

Join Date: Mar 2007

Phailville

D/

28 May 2010 at 18:50 - 346

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gennadios

I won't comment on the harshness of the botting bans, but 4k banned accounts will definitely preserve some of the coolness of the HOM bonuses for the players that are still around as that will leave ~2.5k less players sporting them in GW2.

Just wanted to respond to this post because it seems everyone else is doing a pretty good job telling code how retarded he is. It was 3700, which in reality means more like 800 actual people. Many of those botters had tons of accounts and were probably gold sellers. Looking forward at GW2 who cares if we loose a couple hundred gold sellers? Who cares if we lose a couple hundred dishonest people? Not I, not I.

Ninja Ninja

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

W/

28 May 2010 at 18:54 - 347

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

Assumptions...Prove to me I boted for more than I'm saying...If I was to lie,why not just go ahead and say I didn't bot?

And I'm not trying to do this a loud way,this is a discussion thread and I have the right,as do all of you,to discuss.

Bot for one second, bot for 5 years, who cares? You broke the rules which resulted in a ban how long you cheated in the game doesn't even factor in.

Zarion Silverarrow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Puerto Rico

The Annunaki Interventionists

P/W

28 May 2010 at 18:57 - 348

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

Bot for one second, bot for 5 years, who cares? You broke the rules which resulted in a ban how long you cheated in the game doesn't even factor in.

Already read that hundreds of time now,no need to repeat yourselves when I already stated that I know the ban was rightful,but that an unban should be given.

Ninja Ninja

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

W/

28 May 2010 at 19:00 - 349

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

Already read that hundreds of time now,no need to repeat yourselves when I already stated that I know the ban was rightful,but that an unban should be given.

You would only get an unban if you didn't bot which is not the case.

Zarion Silverarrow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Puerto Rico

The Annunaki Interventionists

P/W

28 May 2010 at 19:03 - 350

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

You would only get an unban if you didn't bot which is not the case.

Hehe,well,no insult or anything,you don't work for A-net.

People were mad at the advantages bots brought over them (ie more gold,tittles,pvp ownage,time for things,etc) but all I did was walk in a town.

Firebaall

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 May 2010 at 19:04 - 351

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

Already read that hundreds of time now,no need to repeat yourselves when I already stated that I know the ban was rightful,but that an unban should be given.

And I've read that "hundreds" of times too.

Why should you receive an unbanning? Cheating for 10s or 10 weeks doesn't matter. Violation of the game as directly as that, deserves the harshest punishment possible.

If it didn't, it would send the wrong message. Perhaps as badly as the FFF farming bots did. How many of those cheats came back for seconds, knowing that historically a temp ban was all they faced? I'll bet many.

No, a clear resounding message needs to be sent to the hardcore cheaters as well as the curious "testers". BOT GUILD WARS...face the music.

Ninja Ninja

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

W/

28 May 2010 at 19:06 - 352

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

Hehe,well,no insult or anything,you don't work for A-net.

People were mad at the advantages bots brought over them (ie more gold,tittles,pvp ownage,time for things,etc) but all I did was walk in a town.

And how exactly would you/anet prove that, whats stopping all the bots that got banned from using that excuse?

Zarion Silverarrow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Puerto Rico

The Annunaki Interventionists

P/W

28 May 2010 at 19:07 - 353

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

And how exactly would you/anet prove that, whats stopping all the bots that got banned from using that excuse?

Well I don't know....I don't work for A-net either.

IlikeGW

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

28 May 2010 at 19:23 - 354

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

Doesn't the police look @ your record when you get a ticket for speeding? If that is your 1st offence,they won't treat you the same as if you killed someone and had robbed a bank before.

They're a game company not a fully operational police force and justice system. If you didn't want to get banned all you had to do was not use something that was 100% bannable. Also, zero tolerance is the best approach for this. Now people know because of the example set that there's no kidding around about cheating... just because the devs seem dormant for a time doesn't mean you won't lose your whole account down the road if you start getting silly and trying out cheats off the internet.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

28 May 2010 at 19:25 - 355

I think I've found the solution.
All PVP bots - perma-dishonor. You should not be allowed to PVP if you cheat. It destroys the format.
All PVE bots - no action. It's PVE. The only possible effect bots could have on another players game play would seem to be positive, their effect on the "GW economy". They create a deflationary period in an economy in which unemployment is an impossibility.
A full out ban of an account for anything other than hacking is ridiculous. You paid for the game use it how you see fit.

Zarion Silverarrow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Puerto Rico

The Annunaki Interventionists

P/W

28 May 2010 at 19:26 - 356

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

They're a game company not a fully operational police force and justice system. If you didn't want to get banned all you had to do was not use something that was 100% bannable. Also, zero tolerance is the best approach for this. Now people know because of the example set that there's no kidding around about cheating... just because the devs seem dormant for a time doesn't mean you won't lose your whole account down the road if you start getting silly and trying out cheats off the internet.

As I said,I'm not comparing this to IRL situations myself,but since the guru is doing it,then I might as well....

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

I think I've found the solution.
All PVP bots - perma-dishonor. You should not be allowed to PVP if you cheat. It destroys the format.
All PVE bots - no action. It's PVE. The only possible effect bots could have on another players game play would seem to be positive, their effect on the "GW economy". They create a deflationary period in an economy in which unemployment is an impossibility.
A full out ban of an account for anything other than hacking is ridiculous. You paid for the game use it how you see fit.

F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5

IlikeGW

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

28 May 2010 at 19:32 - 357

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

All PVE bots - no action. It's PVE. The only possible effect bots could have on another players game play would seem to be positive, their effect on the "GW economy". They create a deflationary period in an economy in which unemployment is an impossibility.

Wut? Everyone would have to run AFK farming bots then just to be on the bottom floor of wealth. I don't think most people want to play a game where the motto is "Time botted over skill" regardless of what the botters think.

cormac ap dunn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2007

Mystic Empires III [xMEx]

Me/

28 May 2010 at 19:32 - 358

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

I think I've found the solution.
All PVP bots - perma-dishonor. You should not be allowed to PVP if you cheat. It destroys the format.
All PVE bots - no action. It's PVE. The only possible effect bots could have on another players game play would seem to be positive, their effect on the "GW economy". They create a deflationary period in an economy in which unemployment is an impossibility.
A full out ban of an account for anything other than hacking is ridiculous. You paid for the game use it how you see fit.

by using a bot period, is that not manipulating the game? sorta the same in both

by that logic i live in my country i pay taxes i can do whatever i want right? doesn't work that way chief, we all live by rules. you break them you get punished, you don't just cry no fair and get a do over.

Ninja Ninja

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

W/

28 May 2010 at 19:33 - 359

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

As I said,I'm not comparing this to IRL situations myself,but since the guru is doing it,then I might as well....

If you want to use that situation then the temp bans would be considered the first offense because of the account mark system. Botting would be murder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5

Botting is hacking the game and giving out perma dishonorable isn't a punishment if the botter already got a high enough rank in pvp to get there HoM rewards. The ban was to send an unquestionable message, you bot you get banned.

Kharmin

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2009

Far Shiverpeaks

Clan Quarren [QRRN]

R/

28 May 2010 at 19:34 - 360

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

I think I've found the solution.
All PVP bots - perma-dishonor. You should not be allowed to PVP if you cheat. It destroys the format.
All PVE bots - no action. It's PVE. The only possible effect bots could have on another players game play would seem to be positive, their effect on the "GW economy". They create a deflationary period in an economy in which unemployment is an impossibility.
A full out ban of an account for anything other than hacking is ridiculous. You paid for the game use it how you see fit.

I can't speak to the PvP, since I don't play PvP, but regarding the PvE I must disagree. The bots/cheaters do adversely impact the game (and in-game economy) by artificially manipulating the outcome of various aspects of PvE. This does affect the "honest" PvE players. In some ways, in my opinion, this also accounts for the lack of pugs as players (botter or purchaser from a botter) acquire titles, levels, items, buffs, etc which places them in a position of superiority at which they deign not to play with others who are less so endowed.