Sorry if I didn't manage to read all the posts, it's already a very long thread and I started reading only now. Why? The other day I decided I would revive my ritu, she's always been a spirit spammer and that was boring as hell for me, so I wasn't using her anymore. I gave her a second opportunity, completely changed everything of her build. Basically I wanted something in the channelling line, something that wasn't about spirits. And really, the only elite worth taking is DwG. And now I'm having fun again with her.
So I'm all with the ones who say that's the only current option if you don't want to just sit and spam spirits.
/not signed
Nerf DwG
Mintha Syl
EssayReader
Suppose we do get rid of DwG, wouldn't we just revert back to all the other DoASC builds? Aren't they also mindless?
byteme!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EssayReader
Suppose we do get rid of DwG, wouldn't we just revert back to all the other DoASC builds? Aren't they also mindless?
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NerfHerder
The only place I see DwG being used is DoA. Its not even an exploit, as it has been pointed out, its the same SC build with DwG instead of another caster spike. DoA is very popular now and is actually getting PUGs to play well together.
/notsigned d/t QQfail
/notsigned d/t QQfail
rampage365
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kennywong
I can't help but suspect that those calling for a nerf to DwG for DoA SC might be people who have already made enough & wanted to stop gems/armbrace prices from slipping further.
Perhaps i m ignorant, I have not seen DwG used outside of DoA SC & Courier runs (I don't PVP). /not sign |
Most people who don't want dwg around are those who have already gotten their riches or are those elite DoASCers. But really if you are one of the elites, then you could easily hop on a DoASC guild/alliance and do it your way. Same goes for others who want a coordinated DoASC. Like kennywong and many others have said, DwG is only being done in NM DoA, and not anywhere else, and takes 2hrs to complete with pugs. IT IS NOT LIKE URSAN, which worked pretty much EVERYWHERE. I heard someone here say that dwg is for only one profession. Apparently they haven't been to DoA recently.
/notsigned
spirit of defeat
A-net wants to promote PUG's, and so do I
/not singed
/not singed
Cuilan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Brother Of Nika
bcuz they way or method that is need 2 be done 2 create or get the drop for a said item can be more difficult than another item with another method.
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kazjun
/unsigned
It's not exactly fast, so no.
And runs mainly in NM. Hardly OPness there.
It's actually brought people to the DOA, so good.
It's brought back pugging for those not in SC guilds, so good.
And as for destroying the price of ambraces? Well, an items price isn't just supply. The number of people willing to pay 30e+ for ambraces are only so many, and just about all who wanted one would have brought them long ago. You can't expect a high end item to keep the same price while demand is falling as time passes. Even with reducing supply, you can't expect that the price will stay high for something with only one real use.
It's same as most other so called rare skins, price has dropped as everyone who wanted one and was willing to pay big got one. Everyone left wasn't willing to pay the high prices so they dropped.
It's not exactly fast, so no.
And runs mainly in NM. Hardly OPness there.
It's actually brought people to the DOA, so good.
It's brought back pugging for those not in SC guilds, so good.
And as for destroying the price of ambraces? Well, an items price isn't just supply. The number of people willing to pay 30e+ for ambraces are only so many, and just about all who wanted one would have brought them long ago. You can't expect a high end item to keep the same price while demand is falling as time passes. Even with reducing supply, you can't expect that the price will stay high for something with only one real use.
It's same as most other so called rare skins, price has dropped as everyone who wanted one and was willing to pay big got one. Everyone left wasn't willing to pay the high prices so they dropped.
Missing HB
/not signed at all
People kept complaining about ursans there , then it got nerfed after a few weeks. Then ppl started to use perma sins with cryers for over a year without a nerf , and noone of these ppl even complained. Now some other build is played , those start to complain again because this build is effective ( in NM though ), and because ambrance price is dropping.
I would say that price dropping was very obvious and it was also very surprising that , upon all perma sins farming UW or that place , ecto/ambrance price never ever dropped a lot .
People kept complaining about ursans there , then it got nerfed after a few weeks. Then ppl started to use perma sins with cryers for over a year without a nerf , and noone of these ppl even complained. Now some other build is played , those start to complain again because this build is effective ( in NM though ), and because ambrance price is dropping.
I would say that price dropping was very obvious and it was also very surprising that , upon all perma sins farming UW or that place , ecto/ambrance price never ever dropped a lot .
Anime Divine
\notsigned 
altough there are some pretty stupid close minded people in domain of anquish.
like former meta's they all want the same build as in wiki.
so i coulndt play monk because i didnt have mimicri lmao.
altough there are some pretty stupid close minded people in domain of anquish.
like former meta's they all want the same build as in wiki.
so i coulndt play monk because i didnt have mimicri lmao.
RedDog91
The people that want it nerfed fit into 2 categories.
category 1: People who can't seem to complete NF with a ritualist (though DWG builds are easy to make for most other professions with secondary rit)
category 2: People who use DWG to get armbraces but have realized that the prices have dropped dramatically.
category 1: People who can't seem to complete NF with a ritualist (though DWG builds are easy to make for most other professions with secondary rit)
category 2: People who use DWG to get armbraces but have realized that the prices have dropped dramatically.
Shayne Hawke
I don't see anything especially wrong about DwG. The Domain of Anguish itself, on the other hand...
Skyy High
If this is the worst "exploit" that people can complain about now, I'm happy. This is so much better than Ursan or SF it's not even funny.
chuckles79
I'm 90% sure that everyone QQ is an ex-SF farmer who doesn't know what else to do because SF was all they did for the last 2 years.
This finally lets rits into an elite area (rits aren't welcome in the Factions elite areas, which is ironic and sad) and also provides work for imbas who aren't welcome in FoWSCs and UW.
Lastly, everyone forgets that GW2 is coming soon. I've suspected all along that rapid deflation and obsurdly strong buffs were going to be coming to allow everyone to squeeze the last juice out of GW1 so that they are eager to go to GW2.
After all, there are a lot of casual players who will never get Tormented Weps or Obby Armor at this rate.
Is it fair to those who did things the hard way? No, but neither was the destruction of the in game economy thx to SF for as long as that went on.
If nothing else everyone should read the signs and dustoff their dervs and paras for the upcoming buffs. They are going to be cheap too, but very fun for those who kept the faith with these professions.
This finally lets rits into an elite area (rits aren't welcome in the Factions elite areas, which is ironic and sad) and also provides work for imbas who aren't welcome in FoWSCs and UW.
Lastly, everyone forgets that GW2 is coming soon. I've suspected all along that rapid deflation and obsurdly strong buffs were going to be coming to allow everyone to squeeze the last juice out of GW1 so that they are eager to go to GW2.
After all, there are a lot of casual players who will never get Tormented Weps or Obby Armor at this rate.
Is it fair to those who did things the hard way? No, but neither was the destruction of the in game economy thx to SF for as long as that went on.
If nothing else everyone should read the signs and dustoff their dervs and paras for the upcoming buffs. They are going to be cheap too, but very fun for those who kept the faith with these professions.
To Chicken To Die
Look it's time again. Don't worry when the dev team feels rit have been used enough they will nerf this skill. It's not a matter if but a matter of when. An answer you will never know until it has been done. It's just a fase guildwars is going trough after Ursan, SF, 600/smite. DWG will add to this list and the next spot will be filled. The Question will be whats next 
chuckles79
Quote:
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Originally Posted by To Chicken To Die
Look it's time again. Don't worry when the dev team feels rit have been used enough they will nerf this skill. It's not a matter if but a matter of when. An answer you will never know until it has been done. It's just a fase guildwars is going trough after Ursan, SF, 600/smite. DWG will add to this list and the next spot will be filled. The Question will be whats next
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Perhaps Cruel Spear will be like Ebon Archer and have a 10% of insta-kill.
SY with +200 armor and Reaper's Strike summons Dhuum as a summon.
(all j/k of course, but then if you told me in early 07 that Anet was going to make assassins not only tanks, but invincible I would have laughed)
Mordiego
Less QQ, more farm. Exploit it while u can, just like everyone else does. To the bone!
chuckles79
I understand the frustration though... is everyone going to have to get one of EVERY profession through the entire game just in case the next god-like buff lands on that profession?
Gondrakif
OP asks to nerf DwG because there is a team build that can complete DoA in NM using full consets within 1-2 hours... Hmmmm...
Let's leave aside the fact that builds exist which do same thing in HM in half that time and are give or take mindless too.
Well if you ask me the main problem about this team build isn't DwG but the imbagon. Sure the DwG guys do most of the damage but do you think they could even get to use half their skills without a guy from behind providing them with constant +100 armor? Without SY! the monks would explode (hence why it's so important to keep the paragon clean).
The core of the team is SY+2healers+5DamageDealers so if DwG is nerfed people will still be able to do it but they would have to use another build for damage and maybe just maybe the run will get a bit longer.
Bottom-line, if those DoA NM runs is what you want gone aim for the right skill to be nerfed...
Let's leave aside the fact that builds exist which do same thing in HM in half that time and are give or take mindless too.
Well if you ask me the main problem about this team build isn't DwG but the imbagon. Sure the DwG guys do most of the damage but do you think they could even get to use half their skills without a guy from behind providing them with constant +100 armor? Without SY! the monks would explode (hence why it's so important to keep the paragon clean).
The core of the team is SY+2healers+5DamageDealers so if DwG is nerfed people will still be able to do it but they would have to use another build for damage and maybe just maybe the run will get a bit longer.
Bottom-line, if those DoA NM runs is what you want gone aim for the right skill to be nerfed...
Ungle
/signed
because you DWG nubs like to drop armbrace prices down, selling for cheaper and cheaper, making them hard to sell for those of us who have lots of them, and farm them with our guilds
because you DWG nubs like to drop armbrace prices down, selling for cheaper and cheaper, making them hard to sell for those of us who have lots of them, and farm them with our guilds
chuckles79
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gondrakif
OP asks to nerf DwG because there is a team build that can complete DoA in NM using full consets within 1-2 hours... Hmmmm...
Let's leave aside the fact that builds exist which do same thing in HM in half that time and are give or take mindless too. Well if you ask me the main problem about this team build isn't DwG but the imbagon. Sure the DwG guys do most of the damage but do you think they could even get to use half their skills without a guy from behind providing them with constant +100 armor? Without SY! the monks would explode (hence why it's so important to keep the paragon clean). The core of the team is SY+2healers+5DamageDealers so if DwG is nerfed people will still be able to do it but they would have to use another build for damage and maybe just maybe the run will get a bit longer. Bottom-line, if those DoA NM runs is what you want gone aim for the right skill to be nerfed... |
It appears that you MAY be suggesting that a nerf on SY is called for to correct NM DoA runs. On behalf of everyone who plays paragon, upon learning (my apologies if misconstrued) that you suggest making everyone's paragon a useless pile of steaming excrement, please Go Dick Cheney Yourself.
Sirius Bsns
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ungle
/signed
because you DWG nubs like to drop armbrace prices down, selling for cheaper and cheaper, making them hard to sell for those of us who have lots of them, and farm them with our guilds |
Gondrakif
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chuckles79
Good Sir,
It appears that you MAY be suggesting that a nerf on SY is called for to correct NM DoA runs. On behalf of everyone who plays paragon, upon learning (my apologies if misconstrued) that you suggest making everyone's paragon a useless pile of steaming excrement, please Go Dick Cheney Yourself. |
On a side note i find it really weird that nerfing a warrior skill makes paragons useless..
pterodactyl
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ungle
/signed
because you DWG nubs like to drop armbrace prices down, selling for cheaper and cheaper, making them hard to sell for those of us who have lots of them, and farm them with our guilds |
no one is going to do anything to protect your precious loot from going down in price. why should they? are you aware of how economies work?
if you think a skill is overpowered, that's one thing. but suggesting a skill should be nerfed due to another reason, like because it's overused or it's allowing more people to get something they want, then that's just silly.
sthpaw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gondrakif
OP asks to nerf DwG because there is a team build that can complete DoA in NM using full consets within 1-2 hours... Hmmmm...
Let's leave aside the fact that builds exist which do same thing in HM in half that time and are give or take mindless too. Well if you ask me the main problem about this team build isn't DwG but the imbagon. Sure the DwG guys do most of the damage but do you think they could even get to use half their skills without a guy from behind providing them with constant +100 armor? Without SY! the monks would explode (hence why it's so important to keep the paragon clean). The core of the team is SY+2healers+5DamageDealers so if DwG is nerfed people will still be able to do it but they would have to use another build for damage and maybe just maybe the run will get a bit longer. Bottom-line, if those DoA NM runs is what you want gone aim for the right skill to be nerfed... |
are you serious???
after the nerf to URSAN, SY imbagons were used BUT not it still not good enough to get DoA alive, that was the time when armbraces went up to 50e+, builds like this existed http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_DoA_Heroway and http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build%3ATe...oA_Physicalway but they were never pug meta, only done with guildies, I have only found afew pugs trying it but everyone i join has failed and failed badly.
so when I joined a DwG pug run for the first was amased how easy it was for pugs, it was just like ursan.
imo, as i have mentioned before either tone down DwG slightly or change DoA and FoW to make it as challenging as UW is.
Del
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gondrakif
OP asks to nerf DwG because there is a team build that can complete DoA in NM using full consets within 1-2 hours... Hmmmm...
Let's leave aside the fact that builds exist which do same thing in HM in half that time and are give or take mindless too. Well if you ask me the main problem about this team build isn't DwG but the imbagon. Sure the DwG guys do most of the damage but do you think they could even get to use half their skills without a guy from behind providing them with constant +100 armor? Without SY! the monks would explode (hence why it's so important to keep the paragon clean). The core of the team is SY+2healers+5DamageDealers so if DwG is nerfed people will still be able to do it but they would have to use another build for damage and maybe just maybe the run will get a bit longer. Bottom-line, if those DoA NM runs is what you want gone aim for the right skill to be nerfed... |
Spiritz
You know , i must be a complete idiot or something because in over 3 yrs of gw ive never yet felt the need/urge to get tormented weapons/ambraces or even actually do DOA on any of my chrs that have done NF.
Am i sitting around crying "its so unfair , dwg is op , anet nerf it !!! " dont think so as im doing other things within gw.
Players complained when DOA died down and the only people who used to farm DOA were usually considered elitists - now theres a way for almost anyone to get in a doa team and bring it back to life what happens ... people start crying.
Let people do what they want to do and get some enjoyment out of the game - may also cut down on the cryers who state gw is now a stale game and noone wants to pug .If you dislike dwg where does it state anywhere you have to use it or join a team with player(s) using it ?
BTW all those who cry at ambrace price dropping - do you also cry when ecto prices drop slightly ? lol
Am i sitting around crying "its so unfair , dwg is op , anet nerf it !!! " dont think so as im doing other things within gw.
Players complained when DOA died down and the only people who used to farm DOA were usually considered elitists - now theres a way for almost anyone to get in a doa team and bring it back to life what happens ... people start crying.
Let people do what they want to do and get some enjoyment out of the game - may also cut down on the cryers who state gw is now a stale game and noone wants to pug .If you dislike dwg where does it state anywhere you have to use it or join a team with player(s) using it ?
BTW all those who cry at ambrace price dropping - do you also cry when ecto prices drop slightly ? lol
dancing gnome
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Travaail
Destructive was glaive is far too overpowered for normal mode and allows people to do mindless domain of anguish runs with no more skill required than ursan.
needs to be nerfed. |
The builds I saw people run in DoA prior to DwG were Searing Flames eles and Shadow Form tanks - this was for HM speed clears done in around 1hr and 15 minutes, less time than a NM DwG run. This meant the tank took next to no damage and the eles were literally doing nothing more than pressing 1 and occasionally 2, 3 or 4.
Sure DoA can be played with school using balanced groups and non gimmick exploitative game mechanics, but it is a billion times harder and took significantly longer than the SF team builds, so that's what people used. Because people can do the gimmicky builds that complete the area in absurd times, the people who don't use those techniques are selling their rewards in a market that is rewarding certain gimmicks better than balanced play, thus decreasing balanced play rewards by a large margin.
Stop moaning because people are able to complete a normal mode run of DoA in more time than it takes brainless SC builds to do HM runs.
Yoshida Keiji
If an elite area takes around 2hs to beat it, thats fine.
Say full run plus Mallyx.
But now, you want it require 4hs ... Then how many chances will I have to finish it? Maybe weekends? No thanks, I have a life out there.
Two hours with consets "Team Build" is fine.
And as I had said before. There still are plenty of FAIL PUG teams out there.
I really dont care Armbraces dropping to 25 ectos...
Common, its just a weapon´s skin. Why should a rare be around 175k? Aint that just too much?
And most people are just getting there because they can simply PLAY the game at DoA, not only because of farming.
Say full run plus Mallyx.
But now, you want it require 4hs ... Then how many chances will I have to finish it? Maybe weekends? No thanks, I have a life out there.
Two hours with consets "Team Build" is fine.
And as I had said before. There still are plenty of FAIL PUG teams out there.
I really dont care Armbraces dropping to 25 ectos...
Common, its just a weapon´s skin. Why should a rare be around 175k? Aint that just too much?
And most people are just getting there because they can simply PLAY the game at DoA, not only because of farming.
own age myname
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sthpaw
are you serious???
after the nerf to URSAN, SY imbagons were used BUT not it still not good enough to get DoA alive, that was the time when armbraces went up to 50e+, builds like this existed http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_DoA_Heroway and http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build%3ATe...oA_Physicalway but they were never pug meta, only done with guildies, I have only found afew pugs trying it but everyone i join has failed and failed badly. so when I joined a DwG pug run for the first was amased how easy it was for pugs, it was just like ursan. imo, as i have mentioned before either tone down DwG slightly or change DoA and FoW to make it as challenging as UW is. |
As stated many times before UA+HB+Imba+Insert Caster Spike+NM = Win
Ungle
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dancing gnome
Anyone who says DoA was a skilled part of the game prior to this is lying.
The builds I saw people run in DoA prior to DwG were Searing Flames eles and Shadow Form tanks - this was for HM speed clears done in around 1hr and 15 minutes, less time than a NM DwG run. This meant the tank took next to no damage and the eles were literally doing nothing more than pressing 1 and occasionally 2, 3 or 4. Sure DoA can be played with school using balanced groups and non gimmick exploitative game mechanics, but it is a billion times harder and took significantly longer than the SF team builds, so that's what people used. Because people can do the gimmicky builds that complete the area in absurd times, the people who don't use those techniques are selling their rewards in a market that is rewarding certain gimmicks better than balanced play, thus decreasing balanced play rewards by a large margin. Stop moaning because people are able to complete a normal mode run of DoA in more time than it takes brainless SC builds to do HM runs. |
Now troll me please.
toocooltang
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dancing gnome
Anyone who says DoA was a skilled part of the game prior to this is lying.
The builds I saw people run in DoA prior to DwG were Searing Flames eles and Shadow Form tanks - this was for HM speed clears done in around 1hr and 15 minutes, less time than a NM DwG run. This meant the tank took next to no damage and the eles were literally doing nothing more than pressing 1 and occasionally 2, 3 or 4. Sure DoA can be played with school using balanced groups and non gimmick exploitative game mechanics, but it is a billion times harder and took significantly longer than the SF team builds, so that's what people used. Because people can do the gimmicky builds that complete the area in absurd times, the people who don't use those techniques are selling their rewards in a market that is rewarding certain gimmicks better than balanced play, thus decreasing balanced play rewards by a large margin. Stop moaning because people are able to complete a normal mode run of DoA in more time than it takes brainless SC builds to do HM runs. |
1. DoAsc is much harder to do "fast" now I.E. sub 1 hour. The coordination and the tactics are very intricate and detailed. DoAsc isn't a pugging thing, even 8 people that know what they are doing and good at gildworz will have a hard time without any doasc experiance.
2.Using a balanced build doesn't take much longer than a SC setup actually. Most DoAsc runs are about an hour, so bordering on a 3 set run; balanced runs take about 1h20 so agian a 3 set run.
3. I have done both a HM and NM DWG run. Neither one require any tactics and due to the short recharge (3seconds) with cons. 5 rits can easisly sustain a high amount of DPS over time. Which really is the fundamental issue.
So in conclusion DwG isn't over powered in DoA its over powered anywhere with cons because for 5 nrg you can constantly spam ~100 dmg every 3 seconds. Both balanced doa runs and SC runs area all about applying huge amounts of damage over a short period of time to effectivly kill.
P.S. I agree with ungle
Essence Snow
For SC's yes it takes some skill on part of the "Tanks"....rest of the group is meh...(stand here...ping... 1234)
100 dmg every 3 secs it not limited to dwg...and who needs that anyway when u can spike down entire groups in 2sec or less
I still can't believe some ppl are complaining that PuGs are able to do DoA NM...for crying out loud NM...wait what was that...oh yeah NM, using full Cons...in how long?...1.5hrs+? "Holy OPness Batman"....yes, I just made a corny OS Batman comment, but all this is just about as ridiculous as that is.
Granted the exp PuG group can run it in HM in roughly the same time....but then again the exp pug group could probably SC it too. Seeing if you have exp tanks for the SC then rest is...well...not all that complicated.
And lets not forget skipclears...."imagine" if dwg runs incorporated skipping.....end of the world type stuff right there....lol
100 dmg every 3 secs it not limited to dwg...and who needs that anyway when u can spike down entire groups in 2sec or less
I still can't believe some ppl are complaining that PuGs are able to do DoA NM...for crying out loud NM...wait what was that...oh yeah NM, using full Cons...in how long?...1.5hrs+? "Holy OPness Batman"....yes, I just made a corny OS Batman comment, but all this is just about as ridiculous as that is.
Granted the exp PuG group can run it in HM in roughly the same time....but then again the exp pug group could probably SC it too. Seeing if you have exp tanks for the SC then rest is...well...not all that complicated.
And lets not forget skipclears...."imagine" if dwg runs incorporated skipping.....end of the world type stuff right there....lol
Lithril Ashwalker
how about /unsigned...because all you guys do when something is better than ur current profession u QQ... ur never satisfied...stfu...go complain about something like Ursan or UW.
forget armbraces...they are common, we all know u guys store armbraces just to sell em online anyway lol.
*requests to have thread closed*
forget armbraces...they are common, we all know u guys store armbraces just to sell em online anyway lol.
*requests to have thread closed*
Skyy High
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chuckles79
Good Sir,
It appears that you MAY be suggesting that a nerf on SY is called for to correct NM DoA runs. On behalf of everyone who plays paragon, upon learning (my apologies if misconstrued) that you suggest making everyone's paragon a useless pile of steaming excrement, please Go Dick Cheney Yourself. |
own age myname
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
SY! should die, and it should come in the same update that buffs motivation. As long as the imbagon exists, paras are never going to have any decent builds that can compete with it in terms of party support.
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chuckles79
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
SY! should die, and it should come in the same update that buffs motivation. As long as the imbagon exists, paras are never going to have any decent builds that can compete with it in terms of party support.
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Either drastically buff the paragon in dmg output, give it tanking abilities, or buff shouts and chants to the point where DWG is child's stuff.
sthpaw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by own age myname
You don't get it do you? Nerf DWG, it won't matter. People will just use the next caster spike...
As stated many times before UA+HB+Imba+Insert Caster Spike+NM = Win |
own age myname
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sthpaw
well you could do that as well and might as well nerf ST rits and ether renewal eles using prot bond, if paragons are buffed and dont have a need for SY, but if that is done imo it will resort people to using tank and spank again.
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sthpaw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by own age myname
Then DoA would be dead and you can hoard your cash? Nice solution. Let's just nerf anything that can clear an elite area while we're at it?
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what i mentioned before was that DwG is mindless compared to other SY setups with DoA. doing a pug run and breezing through foundry pulling like 3 groups in the 3rd room (without a perma balling and no clean spikes) and not wiping to me means that dwg is pretty overpowered.