Nerf DwG

all missing the point that GW1 is in it's twilight now. It's time for rapid deflation, and to let everyone stack titles for GW2. Which is why EVERYTHING is being buffed.

I never mentioned to nerf SY. Just if they nerfed it, atleast keep it viable for warriors.

The point is that if you nerf DwG people would still be able to clear DoA with setups like this. A bit harder/less mindless as you said. On the other hand if you nerf SY all these setups are unable to complete DoA.

I never said that DwG is balanced as it is or that it should stay as it is, what i'm saying is that if you want those type of DoA runs gone nerf SY.

ST rits and emo bonders have a limit to what they can do, if the number of the enemies exceeds a certain number you are dead, on the other hand SY doesn't have that.. I'm not saying that emo bonders and ST rits are balanced but that they are somewhat limited compared to an imbagon. Of course if you avoid over-aggro the damage you will take will be minimal with any of those three.

And the third room example you mentioned proves that you have godlike back-line. DwG deals the same damage to all creatures in its range which is huge so we can assume that it needs almost the same amount of time to kill 1 group as it takes to kill 3. What changes from 1 to 3 groups is the damage your group takes. Since it's not like everyone drops ashes BOOM everything is dead, plus there are spawns and after-spawns, you have to sustain a huge amount of damage while you kill 3 groups at once... Now most pug monks (in a team without an imbagon/emo/ST) have trouble keeping a group alive while handling 1 of those groups at a time.. Do you see where i'm going with this?

SY can be very powerful but there are plenty of counters in the game. Blind, hexes etc these counters are all very numerous in DoA and isn't the fundamental problem. ST is strong but also the spirits can die very fast if you over aggro.

DwG runs are OP because 5 people can run into any mob and just drop ashes like its hot. They do not need to worry about energy or recharge times, the damage is huge and the recharge time is effectivly 0 and all for 5 energy. Sorry but you shouldn't be able to pug the hardest area in the game easily.

If you say that you can't pug hardmode DoA with DwG its because the quality of players playing DwG is generally very poor. While you may call this elitism, there aren't many "elitist" players that started out this game and weren't complete noobs.

The solution to the problem is to change the recharge time to 15seconds.

So basically in summation:

1) PvE skills are overpowered (Save Yourselves!, There's Nothing to Fear!, By Ural's Hammer!, etc.)
2) PvE split skills are overpowered (Destructive was Glaive, Signet of Spirits, Unyielding Aura, etc.)
3) Consumables are overpowered
4) Normal mode is easy as shit

Anything else I missed? (Oh, and I'm not being sarcastic.)

Did my first DwG pug today. Here is my take.

First team - fail. DwGs didn't know patrol.

Second team - two leechers who went afk after popping cons in gloom so they could get the drops.

Third team - 2 rt dwg, 1 ele dwg, 1 ranger dwg, 1 SoS, 1 Imba(me), 2 monks. 1:30 exactly, just 3 consets. I have to say it was fun picking up a game with random pugs and being able to do something. 1:30 for 10 gems is not alot.

Before I get called a nub, I've done DoA HM with a balanced team, I've done DoASC HM in under an hour. I've been in top "balanced" guilds and SC guilds. It is not OP'ed, wipes are possible if people don't do their jobs right or know the aggro.

Its nice being able to get a pug team together and do something thats worthwhile. Its not fail proof, but it beats sitting there for an hour pinging builds and then fail. I don't feel like hopping on ventrillo and control scream at people if they don't stand behind this white line i drew on the compass. Take it easy people, its NM.

I love this guy. (No im not being sarcastic)

Pic or it didnt happen..
Sorry but i dont care if you clear DoA in 3 hours or 1 and the stuff just shows your e-peen and barely anything special as it were back in the days when i thought the shield was really cool.

DWG is mindless and kinda boring I still want a challenge.
I love DoA back in the days when PvE skills didnt exist now its just mindless hey i drop some ashes and the enemies goes boom dead.

This makes no sense.

Wasn't trying to flash e-peen, but what pic would you like to see. A screenshot of dwg doing DoA in NM is hardly a show off.

Get some friends together and play it your way. Why let Anet decide how you are playing the game?

And if you are in for the challenge, not for the drops, I guess you wouldn't mind spending more than an hour on a fullclear.

I wouldn't say nerf it but make it a bit more challenging to use DWG effectively (if that's even possible).

The way i see it is that you shouldn't continuously thump your keyboard and recieve items worth loads.

/partially signed

Sigh, typical interwebz.

LMFAO and above comment.....

/notsigned

its fun..... if it was nerfed no1 would do doa

However were you able to find a burrowed suggestion thread about something you aren't agreeing with in the first place :S

Good thing that u know its actually splitted ever since the buff.

You can hardly find a place in a non dwg party in DoA cause you can't really find a non dwg party... I don't like dwg (I instantly leave any party that request me to play dwg even if I am on my rit). I also find that ritualists are kinda overpowered (they can do more things at least at a decent level then others using only their skills without needing other conditions to be meet, this is why I find any buffs to this class as being something bad to the game, if they want to work on a class then i suggest paragons ( http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hexbreaker_Aria , just an example of a skill that need to be changed/moved) cause the only thing i saw on paragons was nerfs reducing the numbers of their decent builds (i still wait the day when I will see a paragon with a decent build in ra) (i regret the day when I decided to make my paragon) ).
Let's say you have luck and find a non dwg party in DoA (don't think it will be something fast it will take hours, and if it takes to long you will lose some of the people you found...), that party is mostly made by people that never did DoA and this reduce the chances of actually do it and not failing. Of course you can say you don't need to do DoA in hm to get the statue, farm the title and that you can always duo DoA, but well duo DoA is almost like saying HH it (I know you don't have hench there), last time I checked it GW was still an online game and not an rpg (HH in GW = playing a rpg). You can also say ask your guildies to do DoA, well 6 months I searched a kurzick guild (max luxon so no reason for me to be in a luxon guild) that will be close to what I want, during those 6 months I was unable to find a kurzick close to what I want, to understand better what I want to ssay: in the kurzick guilds i was or guildless was the same.

DoA can be done without DwG. Before the DwG era it was still posible to do DoA without taking runs.

I found it not normal to see any/Rt playing DwG and not using their primary class skills.

Except my dervish all the other chars already have max Lightbringer done in DoA in pre DwG era. My dervish will not get max Lightbringer. Why? I refuse to play as a DwG with my dervish and I refuse to farm the title in other places.

/signed

Well played dazagon is quite neat in RA. Subpar to most other options, though, yet still somewhat decent.

DwG should cause exhaustion.

Wiki:

Related skills

* Cruel Was Daoshen
* Grasping Was Kuurong Grasping Was Kuurong (elite)

both of those skills cost 15 energy, and have 1s or 2s (in case of cruel) activation time, cruel rechange time is 30s, grasping is 20s.

Making DwG cost 15 energy and changing the recharge time to 20s should get dwg in same line as those 2 related skills. (It will still be better then Cruel and closer to Grasping)

This is false my friend. An organized balanced team can do DoA faster, at least in Normal Mode, than a DwG team. The majority of the player base just refuse to use their brain. It is quite sad really.

Easiest, and probably most sensible fix to Destructive Was Glaive... Exhaustion. Skills in the Elementalist line do just as much, or they have that much listed, and cause exhaustion (Invoke Lightning, Mind Shock/Freeze/Burn, just to name a few). DwG even with Exhaustion is still superior to all of these, it will just require the user to use it intelligently.

Before DwG builds were discoverd DoA was a barren wasteland - took hours to find a PuG, and it severely limited the classes that could be bought along - no one wanted dervishes, a mesmer may find a group if lucky, rangers yeah right etc...

While I agree DwG way is overpowered and makes DoA a hell of a lot easier than it used to be, it opened up DoA for every class. It's not Ursan overpowered, if the group is full of beginners you'll fail until you know what to do - where pop ups are & keeping hexes off para etc. What I like about DwG is that often there is a full district of people wanting to do a team build that any class can have a place in.

That's what I hate about other speed clears - I don't care that shadowform is stupidly overpowered and has been for years - I hate that no other class can run it and join a speedclear, eg UW, Vloxen etc

If people hate DwG and want a challenge, there's nothing stopping you doing a balanced run - it's fully possible in DoA, but obviously takes a lot longer - not everyone has four hours to do, and I think that if DwG did get nerfed DoA would be deserted again and that'd be a shame to see.

/Not signed.

I hate it when people are such egocentric, that they want builds/runs/stuff to be nerfed when they realise their own wealth is decreasing due to the fact that armbraces will drop in price.
Don't be a ****** elistist and let other people enjoy this game aswell.
Besides, why do you care that it is overpowered? If you think that this build is to overpowered, then do not run it (you must have ran it to come to the conclusion that it is indeed ''overpowered''), and do not bother the ''DWG R8 LF GROUP ETC ETC'' messages. You can always start your own party with a customized build. And on the other hand, what builds are able to defeat the Domains of Anguish quickly with a low fail chance? besides SF runs and DWG? Exactly, None.

I feel very much the way you do about the fact that certain professions are in demand for EVERY high-end run, and others are considered useless. Generally, I just chalk that up to the way things work...but reading your reasoning here, I think it's a great justification for leaving DwG as is...

/notsigned

I'll leave you to your version of the game, then.

DwG opens an elite area for bad PuGs, because it easy to run and has low possibility of failure. When in a guild, it's possible to get a fairly-byob team that will work and complete whole DoA as well, with no need to rely on DwG.
It's not that you can't go into DoA as a mesmer or dervish - it's that PuGs have no to little skill and DwG suits them. However i find it game-breaking that an elite area can be farmed this way, by unorganised PuGs, with no insight, just by spamming one skill after the mobs are balled up; it's just silly, an elite area should bring a challenge.

Not wanting to single you out, but I read the same arguments on here over and over.

Let's take your assumption that DwG is nerfed, and the next metaway restricts the classes to Sin, Ele, Monk & Rit.

Now for every player who's main happens to be War, Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, Paragon or Dervish who beats Nightfall and gets up to DoA has a look around.
"LFG R8 Perma, Searing Flames, UA, HB, Spirit Rit's to Go"
Poor dervish who's native to nightfall can't even join a group for the Domain of Anguish. (Cryway days, who'd take a dervish? Paragon? Ranger? Warrior? Necro?)

The typical answer repeated over and over for that is - "Roll another class!"
My argument is why should they? Why should a player be restricted as to
what they should be able to beat an area with? Why should a player have to go through the game all over again just because their class isn't in the meta?
I think it's very unfair to force players into running this or that class in order to play an area. I've got no problem with asking players to pick up some skills in order to join a group and beat the area - but to restrict whole classes is a problem. Take a look in the Temple of Ages, and the SC Meta there, or the Vloxen Meta. They restrict most of the classes available throughout the whole game.

Of course all of these classes, can get through these elite areas running all kinds of builds - however how is it fair or appealing when one class can get through an elite area in half an hour when it takes a balanced group three hours plus? All can beat it of course, but why would anybody ever bother doing it again when it's an exercise in frustration to find players to play with, and it's half a day of potential fail. It's why you don't see PUG's forming in ToA and it used to be the reason DoA was empty.

The next answer from player is of course "Join A Guild!"
I know the game is called Guild Wars. And most people these days are in a guild. HOWEVER in order for casuals to get a DoA group, your answer is to join a guild. In order for a casual to do UW they have to join a guild. Deep/Urgoz - Guild. People are saddened by the state of PvP - Guild Battles, Heroes Ascent their answer is the same - "Join a Guild!"

Let me ask you a question - how many guilds out there have active members constantly wanting to do these different areas at all hours of the day? Not many I'd bet.

That's the sad thing about stuff in GW today - I know PUGs are fail, I know that the chances of winning with them aren't nearly as good as with Heroes even, however it is unrealistic to expect Guilds to be able to have enough members on all the time who would join each other for all areas of this game.
And that's why DwG or another inclusive Meta is so good for Guild Wars. It means the areas are populated by people looking to do the area at all hours of the day, in number sufficient in order for players not to be sitting around for hours in order to get a group together to do an area of the game that gives fair rewards for the average players time.

Sorry big rant from me, but had to be said.

There are enough high-end PvE // newbie PvP guilds that recruit even here, on Guru, that would get you into every aspect of the game with any class. I've been to 4 PvE guilds so far, had no problem to organise Deep/UW/FoW in 3 of them (the last one was one big 'welcome-fest' rather than actual playing); never bothered with organising DoA runs myself, as i've completed it, including the ape, in Mes+Rit duo with heroes, but i've been to several DoA runs in my first guild.
If your current guild can't organise itself for an elite area run from time to time, there's something wrong. One of the best options i had in my first guild was weekly events - every saturday at 7pm GMT there was a FoW/UW run organised by officers. There are more guilds like that.

Balanced, careful play with other people > broken meta builds that let you roll your face on the keyboard.

Uhmmm so you all must not be aware that DoA has been cleared in under 25 min with another build and that DwG is one of the slower methods for clearing.

26 is the record not 25 if you have a screen of 25 then Id recommend you post it becuase then its the new record. Unless your talking about a 25 min NM clear then its not.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/o...t10425848.html

DwG is a slow method to clear also most doasc's use mesmers as their spikers now shitterspike and foc spikes are a bit outdated.

Though I do agree that doa being an elite area it should not be able to be cleared so easy. Yes I get it if you nerf it then it will be restricted to certain classes but that's a different problem separate from this one. If you have a problem with class restrictions in elite areas then you have speed clears to blame. DwG is a tad ridiculous though an elite area of any kind should not be able to be cleared by pick up groups of any prof. On the same note if DwG is nerfed it wouldn't be hard to just replace the DwG spikers with another kind of spiker and you have the same problem. Also you have to remember these are usually NM clears and a lot of elite areas can be cleared very easily in ways very similar to this. Nerfing a skill becuase its to powerful in NM is also a bit ridiculous, by that logic a lot of skills would be gone. The answer? remove doa from the game.

Smiter's Boon it, I don't care, I don't use it. I don't even PvE, and I don't mind watching the Qqs stream from out the eyes of avid PvEers. I want a good laugh. I want to watch more and more skills become useless, and I want to see the few remaining players quit the game.

/notsigned

Weekly events that only occur on one day of the week at a particular time = bad. Pugs + DwG can clear DoA any day and any time (except for "dead" hours) they want. I've never managed to find a guild that would do 4+ high end runs every day of the week yet.

Veil skip doesnt count

Doing fowsc in less than 15 mins is ridiculous,doing DoA NM is nothing like that speed(our fastest is 1hr10.we don't even bother with NM not unless we take teaching runs) or anywhere near as ridiculous...

But remove FoW from the game because an elite area shouldn't be clearable that quick right?

If DwG was overpowered everywhere in the game, then I'd say nerf it, but because its just DoA that it gets abused, I don't think its such a problem.

To be fair, playing spiker in a DoASC group is pretty mindless too.
You can easy complete a hard mode run in less then 1 hour with a safe build.

However, playing a tank is not mindless. DwG has 8 mindless roles, while sc teams have 4. Even then, spike teams are a lot less mindless than dwg is.

yes remove everything then party naked like pros all day every day

You take it to the extreme side of the spectrum. Just kill the blatantly overpowered shit in PvE. Limit the power of PvE-only skills; kill and maim SF; make DwG cause exhaustion; nerf RoJ's damage; nerf ER eles; ...
Since PvE is all about staying alive (usually using permasin/terratank or/and bonds) and blowing things up, just scale the DPS down a bit and smiterboon the invincible builds.

I find it hilarious, that people want DwG nerfed, but SF, ER Eles, and Keystone spammers are just fine where they are. Like it has been said before, DwG is a slow pug way to do DoA. The ones that are really ruining the economy are the faster SC's. Nerf those, then we can talk about DwG. And then I will tell you about shitterflames and 3 more caster spikes that are just as effective. Just because something is PUG friendly doesnt mean it should get nerfed. We have enough elitists and crybabies ruining it for PUGs already.

mindless is your statement ... have seen many high pvp's (spaming ealier tigers or phoenix emotes) doing HM dungeons or ''elite areas'' rushing as hell at mobbs dealng them 300 dmg, aggroing couple of groups at once and finally raging at monks calling them PVE noobs because they have not been able to keep them alive ... both pvp and pve requires some knowledge and practice to be honest to be good at ...
at topic ... so many words have been said in the topic and so much hypocrisy involved ... 90% of pll reffereing to lack of skill problem, elite are requirement and so on in fact are taking care only on the price of armbrices ... I will tell you pll ... try to use your skills in real live and let the game give you just pure entertainment ... this is the main reason it exists for ... don't exchange your real life for pixels .... ... not signed ...

Smiter's boon all PvE skills, waste all invincible builds, and double the damage of monsters in NM, x5 in HM, and make resurrection skills take 300% longer to cast. Also, make DwG deal 999 damage to the user, and all res attempts at that user fail and causes burning to all allies within earshot.

Better said: move Destructive was Glaive to Spawning Power and nerf dmg but in this way everyone will play only ritualist with the same result

/notsigned