Physical damage should not be 5x stronger than elemental/caster - balance needed - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

The Josip

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2009

Me/

05 Jul 2010 at 18:35 - 1

Everyone who tried both knows that physicals can deal insane amount of damage compared to others, with insane protection (SY..).

This game always had very imbalanced builds/skills which existed on purpose because of ANets policy of "shifting overpowered metagame".

I think it's time for a change. Obviously, since next updates will deal with Paragons and Dervishes there's not much hope, but you never know.

I've been playing lately with Me/D (!) because even as melee mesmer I kill faster than as caster mesmer, even after the mesmer buff update. I mean, come on, something is wrong here. My (buffed) melee mesmer can kill monsters in HM in two hits. Two hits. Let me do that with a spell!

Sam6555

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2008

Legendary Punk And The Wolf [pack]

A/

05 Jul 2010 at 19:05 - 2

IMO melee should hurt more....casters have the ability of not having to move round much, whereas what happens if you are melee and the enemy kites you? Your damage hits 0 esp in HM areas.

ruk1a

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

UR MOM LOL

ATTACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES

A/

05 Jul 2010 at 19:06 - 3

play melee then

IrishX

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2008

W/

05 Jul 2010 at 19:08 - 4

Physicals always have been the damage dealers in Guild Wars. Casters have always been support-based, combining defense, disruption, and some supporting damage.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

05 Jul 2010 at 19:09 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Let me do that with a spell!

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mark_of_Pain

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

05 Jul 2010 at 19:43 - 6

Assassins weren't meant to fearlessly run around and blast everything in sight.

Now they have little use for shadow stepping except for a couple speed clears and zone/area manipulation like Slavers once had.

The Josip

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2009

Me/

05 Jul 2010 at 19:59 - 7

Ok I am not going to argue obvious points here, if someone thinks that this is as it should be then ok.. the thread is here, nothing more to add after I typed this below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishX

Physicals always have been the damage dealers in Guild Wars. Casters have always been support-based, combining defense, disruption, and some supporting damage.

I didn't notice. I thought fire eles rules Prophecies, as well as minion masters. You play as a warrior. I really can't see how your warrior competed during that time, in damage and protection. Moreover my smiting monk in Prophecies was probably dealing more damage as well plus heals (not sure since it was long ago, and it was before nerfs and before aoe dispersal).

Warriors were damage dealers in PvP, but general PvE they were always more tanks than anything else. Then again, maybe I'm wrong, I accept refutal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sam6555

IMO melee should hurt more....casters have the ability of not having to move round much, whereas what happens if you are melee and the enemy kites you? Your damage hits 0 esp in HM areas.

Please. And what happens when caster is interrupted or out of energy? Oh yea you can't do anything. What happens when enemies run out of caster AoE?

We can do this all day long, but summed up: pros&cons need to equalize on both. Yes, there are more antimelee hexes and conditions than anticaster ones. But you can't balance something on mere theory. We're not living in Prophecy days where condition and hex removals were very weak. In general PvE, on average, it's very easy to either be and stay clean (most PvE areas), or to have your hero/player remove unwanted effects fast. I have zero hex removal on my heroes (maybe henchman has some, I don't know), and only MBnS as condition removal (plus whatever henchmen usually have). Situations where I would be dealing zero damage are so extreme they ain't even worth mentioning.

And if you ever played melee (a good one), you'll see that most enemies won't kite at all when you go on them, and some that want to kite will be killed before they distance from you (because you can kill them almost instantly). That leaves, as above, extreme cases of kiting which are not worth mentioning.

I am not here to debate theory.

DigitalFear

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2009

My mother's basement.

Me/

05 Jul 2010 at 20:35 - 8

Mesmers are overpowered as shit after the update. Stop whining. Run a real Mesmer bar please.

Besides, casters mostly do AoE damage. Physicals mostly do single-target damage.

Without casters physicals could never be buffed to hell.

Wait what? Casters? In physically orientated teams? DERP!

Gift3d

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Las Vegas

Enraged Whiny Carebears [oR]

W/E

05 Jul 2010 at 20:44 - 9

casters - lots of aoe, melee - mostly single target

casters - can only be stopped by interrupts and daze - melee, can be stopped by weakness cripple snares blind and by pressing your WASD keys

melee - in front lines readily recieving the majority of ambient harm and pbaoe, casters - can position themselves half an aggro bubble away with no drawbacks to their positioning

etc etc etc i really don't need to go on, this is so painfully obvious and i'm only typing it for OP's sake since he may be one of the only people in all of guild wars who does not understand it.

i think you need to take a big step back, get some medication, realize what the hell is going on in the game you are playing before ludicrously whining about it, and come back when you get a clue. this could be one of the most ridiculous "suggestions" i've ever seen on this website, and trust me that is saying a lot/

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

05 Jul 2010 at 20:45 - 10

Thing about this, then. A warrior, assassin, dervish or whatever; autoattacking at high-speed for whatever their weapon damage is +Crits. They are always dealing damage/pressure. The caster in comparison, is wanding with pitiful damage, no crit chance and generally speaking, no IAS.

Now add the physical's attack skills to the overall damage. Then think about what the elementalist had in prophecies.

How could you possibly have thought elementalists ever dealt more damage? And physicals ARE the damage class of guild wars. eles, mesmers, necros, etc- are all Midline support.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

05 Jul 2010 at 20:54 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

I didn't notice. I thought fire eles rules Prophecies.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...s-t113319.html

Check the dates... Looks like little has changed in almost 5 years.

Teamwork is the key, physicals need casters' support in order to deal 5x damage.

dusanyu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Illusion of skillz [Iz]

W/E

05 Jul 2010 at 21:14 - 12

let put this simple Physicals do better damage (Reward) but there risk is high (there in the thick of it after all)

Casters are Safe in battle (Risk) but do less damage (Reward)

looks to me like it is balanced on a basis of risk and reward

Desert Rose

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

05 Jul 2010 at 21:21 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

I didn't notice. I thought fire eles rules Prophecies, as well as minion masters. You play as a warrior. I really can't see how your warrior competed during that time, in damage and protection. Moreover my smiting monk in Prophecies was probably dealing more damage as well plus heals (not sure since it was long ago, and it was before nerfs and before aoe dispersal).

Warriors were damage dealers in PvP, but general PvE they were always more tanks than anything else. Then again, maybe I'm wrong, I accept refutal.

During Prophecies manly fire eles were used as damage dealers and warriors were often used as tanks, you are correct on this one. But that was the cause because back then most of us were still noobs and hadn't any clue about the game and therefor played it the same way we are used to play other RPGs.

Fusylum

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Michigan

Reign of Judgement [RoJ]

05 Jul 2010 at 21:24 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruk1a

play melee then

Yes, owned
quit your caster bull

The Josip

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2009

Me/

05 Jul 2010 at 21:35 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusanyu

let put this simple Physicals do better damage (Reward) but there risk is high (there in the thick of it after all)

Casters are Safe in battle (Risk) but do less damage (Reward)

looks to me like it is balanced on a basis of risk and reward

Please. This is no Diablo Hardcore where if you die once it's gameover.

It's all about speed of clearing the map. If physical dies 1000 times and finishes dungeon in 3 minutes, who cares if casters are safe and takes 2 hours to do the same?

Sorry, I fail to see the logic.

You speak of safety. I play a freakin mesmer in melee, what risk? I get hit LESS than my heroes and henchmen who are ALL casters. I die less than them.

I am obviously playing different game than you. In Guild Wars game I play, monsters attack targets with less armor/health, and in the game I play, casters have weak armor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...s-t113319.html

I read that thread back then and some new things. Good read of course, but impossible to explain to some people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Higher Minion

How could you possibly have thought elementalists ever dealt more damage?

Really? I guess I listened to much to all the rave about this and that and believed it's true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigitalFear

Mesmers are overpowered as shit after the update. Stop whining. Run a real Mesmer bar please.

8 skills please.

The "mesmer are overpowered now" I heard from many, and surprisingly they never give 8 overpowered skills, nor do they use mesmer themselves, nor do they play with mesmers, nor do they use memser heroes. I think theorycraft is overpowered.

Quote:

Besides, casters mostly do AoE damage. Physicals mostly do single-target damage.

What physicals do single target damage?

Quote:

Without casters physicals could never be buffed to hell.

Yea and without healers they wouldn't survive. Which completely misses the point here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

etc etc etc i really don't need to go on, this is so painfully obvious and i'm only typing it for OP's sake since he may be one of the only people in all of guild wars who does not understand it.

See my second post.

Your theorycraft fails.

Quote:

i think you need to take a big step back, get some medication, realize what the hell is going on in the game you are playing before ludicrously whining about it, and come back when you get a clue. this could be one of the most ridiculous "suggestions" i've ever seen on this website, and trust me that is saying a lot/

If I hate something more than theorycraft, it's haughty noobs. Although, I think these two are connected, because both lack a touch with reality.

vamp08

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

PA, USA

[COPY]

D/

05 Jul 2010 at 21:57 - 16

OP prolly got facerolled by a hammspam War in RA and came here to vent.

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

05 Jul 2010 at 22:13 - 17

Hate theory craft? Well listen to the hypocrisy. You are theorycrafting and QQing about changing stuff that doesn't need changing/balancing. gg.

DigitalFear

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2009

My mother's basement.

Me/

05 Jul 2010 at 22:21 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

8 skills please.

Generic Panic bar, really.

Something like:
OQZDAZkCT0AkAyATP2gIgpiIDA
There, interrupts, shutdown, amazing e-managment and damage.

Quote:

nor do they use mesmer themselves

Don't let my 'E/mo' profession confuse you, I do use my Mesmer frequently

Quote:

nor do they play with mesmers, nor do they use memser heroes.

Ditto.

Quote:

I think theorycraft is overpowered.

I don't. I think practice is just as overpowered.

The Josip

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2009

Me/

05 Jul 2010 at 22:26 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by vamp08

OP prolly got facerolled by a hammspam War in RA and came here to vent.

No I always killed any kind of warriors in RA without a problem, besides, if you tried reading (it's a skill), you'd see it's all about PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Higherminion

You are theorycrafting and QQing about changing stuff that doesn't need changing/balancing. gg.

It doesn't need changing and balancing if you're MoP nuker exploiting physical damage, of course.

Which part of what I said is theorycrafting? You said it yourself physicals deal more damage and added that it was like that before too (I stood corrected).

I mean, you play EMo proter - sure, as far as you're concerned no change is needed but I'm sure some would like to actually do something with ele damage skills - balanced - instead of using blatantly overpowered Ether Renewal (which can only exist with split pvp and pve skills).

Your idea of gameplay is that physicals should do the damage and the others serve them humbly. That isn't quite how I picture that game combat should be, nor is it obvious looking at the entire skill selection each class has.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

05 Jul 2010 at 22:29 - 20

Hate theory crafting and haughty noobs eh?

Pot, meet kettle.

The Josip

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2009

Me/

05 Jul 2010 at 22:33 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchnabe

Ever been hit by SF or Discord in PvP or even some Hard Mode areas? HM PvE can equal a complete party wipe.

Please show me how to add Burning Spirit to my party. Thanks.

Quote:

And believe me with some of the things ive seen mesmers able to do even before the buff.... u should not be complaining

8 skills please.

(And no, this isn't a mesmer complaint so no need to mention mesmers. Mesmers are still almost the worse class but I think they are balanced, it's just that few other things are so blatantly overpowered, namely phys dmg, ridiculous-gon/SY and ER).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Hate theory crafting and haughty noobs eh?

Pot, meet kettle.

Exactly. That thread is a good example. There's me using scientific methods, and then there's you with "ah but you didn't interview 6 million people" attempt of refuting, while at the same time not using any methods. I can think of many examples where someone using scientific methods, no matter how limited, achieved groundbreaking results in the field of science. At the same time, I can't think of anyone who acted dumb and spent time finding faults in other peoples methods, expecting others to waste hours days years on "convincing" him as if they are some religious missionaries - and who achieved some groundbreaking results in the field of science. Any field.

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

05 Jul 2010 at 22:36 - 22

Perhaps this is the way Anet wanted it? A frontline (physicals) midline (Support damage/life support) and Backline (heals, prots)

There just is no synergy in caster skills like MoP+lots of phys damage.

Tank and Spank comeback? Noty; all teams that base themselves around Searing Flames and other nukey elemental skills are gimmicky and ill-thought out.

mage767

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

USA

LOVE

Me/E

05 Jul 2010 at 22:37 - 23

Melee is over-powered only when supported by caster classes. Eg:
1. Mark of pain, barbs, weaken armor from necro
2. Strength of Honor, Judge's insight from monk
3. Ebon wards from any class

Melee alone cannot and do not much damage in HM. They do, however, provide ample protection through SY and the ability to body block enemies in small corners.

Casters on the other hand can be more deadly in certain situations. Think of a SS necro echoing it all over the place against melee or big enemy groups. This is one reason why SS was the staple damage dealer in UW groups and many solo farms, before SC sins and rits took over the game. SS also works fine for vanquishes, but has largely been replaced by AP nec due to speed.

Elementalist's perform subpar in HM in regard to raw damage, unless again it is a AP ele. Therefore, it is important to consider other benefits of using eles such as mass snaring (IS), mass blinding (BS+epidemic), mass knockdowns (GS+MS), mass interrupt (MStr), mass protection (wards, ER), mass healing (ER). Since most people simply suck at playing support roles, they do not appreciate the full line of services an ele can provide.

Rits are probably the second most damaging (caster, lol?) class in GW with spirit spamming at the top of the list, used everywhere by pugs for PvE NM/HM/ZM/ZB. DwG is used in speed clears (DoA and other places).

Mesmers are the MOST mass-damaging armor ignoring class in GW at the moment. A few illusion+domination mesmers can roll through HM areas (like DoA0 faster than anything comparable. You only see their damage in concentrated fire against balled enemies. If playing alone, mandragor build works good with decent damage, while for most prefer AP mes for quickly rolling through areas.

In short, melee is really not 5x stronger than casters.

Zodiac Meteor

Imma Firin Mah Rojway!

Join Date: Aug 2008

At the Mac Store laughing at people that walk out with anything.

E/Mo

05 Jul 2010 at 22:48 - 24

Back in the old days fire ele's ruled PvE. Foes would scratch their heads while being blasted to death by area of effect spells. Warriors were left in the shadows as tanks, their purpose is for the ele's fire of death.

~5 years later, improved AI, improved balance, improved difficulty. Pure spell damage dealers were left in the dust as lolBOOM spell damage. Their roles changed for the better from NM to HM, different enemies requires different tactics.

I know what your getting at, "my favorite class is left in the dust as damage dealers."
I say to that, so what? Guild Wars is one of the few MMO's that tank'n'spank isn't suggested, play damage dealer in one team and healer in another.

Stop QQing, mesmers are kick ass now after the update. Fast casting = faster recharge for the win. Necro's deal plenty of damage and Ele's can support or heal.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

05 Jul 2010 at 22:51 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Exactly. That thread is a good example. There's me using scientific methods, and then there's you with "ah but you didn't interview 6 million people" attempt of refuting, while at the same time not using any methods. I can think of many examples where someone using scientific methods, no matter how limited, achieved groundbreaking results in the field of science. At the same time, I can't think of anyone who acted dumb and spent time finding faults in other peoples methods, expecting others to waste hours days years on "convincing" him as if they are some religious missionaries - and who achieved some groundbreaking results in the field of science. Any field.

That thread was you making up bullshit, then when someone provides evidence contrary to what you're trying to prove, you disregard it. Basically, using false science to provide a fallacious argument.

munchnabe

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2008

Tears of the Ascended [ToA]

05 Jul 2010 at 23:03 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Please show me how to add Burning Spirit to my party. Thanks.

8 skills please.

(And no, this isn't a mesmer complaint so no need to mention mesmers. Mesmers are still almost the worse class but I think they are balanced, it's just that few other things are so blatantly overpowered, namely phys dmg, ridiculous-gon/SY and ER).

Ok, didnt say add burning spirit to ur party reread the quote and try again... it clearly says "Ever been hit by"...meaning u would be getting hit by, not dealing.
and if u want to get technical, summon ruby djinn mysterious summoning stone.

do u want 8 mesmer skills or 8 caster skills? and PvE only or PvP as well?

Mesmers used to and still can run through frostmaws in an insane time. 5 lvl dungeon 15 minutes record if i recall correctly it may have actually been faster than that. Thats faster than any physical. which BTW physway is not a speedclear. and if u really havent realized that in speedclears such as FoWsc the solo sins use Sliver Armor, which is a caster skill correct? only the MT uses physicals and it doesnt work well without the aid of EoE and MoP as well as some stupid spirits to deal some damage and a battle standard from the sin.
Btw in PvP atm Mesmers can take down any opponent 1v1 with the right build no brain required. they are OP to hell thank anet for slightly fixing mind wrack

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

05 Jul 2010 at 23:07 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchnabe

Btw in PvP atm Mesmers can take down any opponent 1v1 with the right build no brain required. they are OP to hell thank anet for slightly fixing mind wrack

Somehow i don't think this statement was thoroughly thought through.

munchnabe

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2008

Tears of the Ascended [ToA]

05 Jul 2010 at 23:22 - 28

@Del
you are right, a small brain would be required
and ofc 1v1 would mean in gh to show who has the bigger epeen as opposed to in an actual match
I really just cant believe this guy is complaining while playing a mesmer....especially after the buff

vamp08

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

PA, USA

[COPY]

D/

05 Jul 2010 at 23:26 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

I mean, you play EMo proter - sure, as far as you're concerned no change is needed but I'm sure some would like to actually do something with ele damage skills - balanced - instead of using blatantly overpowered Ether Renewal (which can only exist with split pvp and pve skills).

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:PvXDecode?title=Special:PvXDecode&wpBuild= OgVDMjyMP0txaT7XYBW%2BIDcB&wpName=Game+Over&Go=Sub mit

+

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:PvXDecode?title=Special:PvXDecode&wpBuild= OQCjUimKKPtbLcQuHXjbx%2BY5NA&wpName=Burnagon&Go=Su bmit

Look; you just won PvE with an Ele(and a para w/out SY for god's sake), thread over.

EDIT: Fixed

Bandwagon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2010

D/

05 Jul 2010 at 23:46 - 30

History lesson for those who care:

GW was designed as a PvP game. Warriors were the "go-to" class for dealing damage (and because of this had a viable counter from all the professions like Empathy, Faintheartedness, Guardian, Snares, Blurred Vision). Casters were designed as the midline that supported both the back and frontline.

If played right, (and this is what I personally adore about GW) a caster can keep his/her energy intact by using several energy restoring abilities, keep in mind that in most RPGs generally when a caster is out of mana (or energy as it were) they are useless and have to wait until they can get their mana back. This of course means that the caster has to sacrifice a few skill slots to devote to this design.

flash forward a few game releases later, A-net shifts gears and increases the scope of PvE in GW (IE: HM). Unfortunately HM mobs have increased armor which affects casters disproportionately relative to Physicals.

Armor reduces damage dealt by auto attacks and spells, but physicals do not rely on auto attacks only, they also deal damage with the armor ignoring +damage component of many of their attack skills. Casters (ele's and some necro skills anyway) deal only armor reduce-able damage which greatly inhibits the role of a "nuker".

Q: WTF does any of this have to do with this thread?

A: Plenty, the game was designed to favor physicals as damage dealers, the difference in PvE relative to PvP in terms of gameplay functionality is virtually unaltered. New features added to the game decrease the damage of casters further. This is the game you play and A-net is probably not going to overhaul the system with GW2 1-2 years away.
I would also like to see some numbers posted by the OP/anyone detailing how physicals are dealing more damage than casters complete with skill lists and if possible, data. I am not convinced physicals are 5x more powerful DPS wise than casters.

If you don't like this, don't play, simple as that (but you have probably heard that anyway).

I openly invite criticism.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

06 Jul 2010 at 00:51 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Everyone who tried both knows that physicals can deal insane amount of damage compared to others, with insane protection (SY..).

This game always had very imbalanced builds/skills which existed on purpose because of ANets policy of "shifting overpowered metagame".

I think it's time for a change. Obviously, since next updates will deal with Paragons and Dervishes there's not much hope, but you never know.

I've been playing lately with Me/D (!) because even as melee mesmer I kill faster than as caster mesmer, even after the mesmer buff update. I mean, come on, something is wrong here. My (buffed) melee mesmer can kill monsters in HM in two hits. Two hits. Let me do that with a spell!

would you PM me your me/d melee build please. i would love to try it.

Shake N Bake

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2008

Maastricht

点pitterpatter点 [点点点点]

N/Rt

06 Jul 2010 at 00:55 - 32

@ OP: Less QQ more Pew Pew.
Srsly if you think your Mesmer is underpowerd then, go play a Melee class!!

Or stop playing GW (Omg,!awesome suggestions ftw).

On the otherhand here is à Build out there for casters that kills targets in 12-13secs
with àlLittle help from 3 Nec Heroes!
Here a little help:
1. Run Discord Caller Bar on ur Mes and the Wiki Doscord Heroes
2. Roll Face on Keyboard
3.?????
4. Profit

Srsly, I have heard people on shrooms making more sense. Stop being Butthurt that ur class isn't the Creme de la creme and deal with it (aka execept the GW mechanics and game play). If you can't go that go Play anoter Game.

Ugh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

R/

06 Jul 2010 at 00:56 - 33

You think casters have it bad? Rangers have less damage than melees and less support than casters. What are they supposed to provide?

Also, if casters are necessary for melee's d0mage, there isn't really a problem with casters (other than 'buff + spam' gameplay being extremely degenerative).

Nerfing ER might force teams to bring more support characters. A nerf to SY is long overdue, IMO. Nerfing non-derv scythe builds is necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...s-t113319.html

That OP is wrong/misleading for several reasons, but I don't feel like explaining why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon

I openly invite criticism.

You invite criticism too openly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruk1a

to OP: the more i see you post the more i think you belong in WoW it has what you're looking for, this game isn't going to change because you don't like it so give up.

With that mentality, nothing would ever get done.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

06 Jul 2010 at 01:08 - 34

There is no suggestion here.

Moved to Riverside.

Assuming there is actually an unnecessary imbalance between the damage done through melee and the damage done through casting, the proper change at this point would probably be the toning down of melee damage, and definitely not the boosting of casting damage. Along with that, it may also be necessary to tone down melee damage mitigation.

maxxfury

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

[DVDF] Gp

Me/A

06 Jul 2010 at 01:11 - 35

2 Posts by Ensign..originally aimed at elems damage, but the info works fine with any caster...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

In Guild Wars, the physicals deal heavy continuous damage that's fragile, while casters deal moderate damage reliably in bursts. The reliability is shifted. Physicals have to deal with block, blind, weakness, a ton of different hexes, as well as snares in the case of melee, any one of which can cripple them; beyond interrupts, there's very little that stops a caster's damage from landing.

Consequentially, you end up with these complex support structures to make sure that your physicals are able to deal damage, while casters instead focus on shutting down physicals and delivering their burst when an opportunity presents itself.

You get the same sort of situation in PvE, where physicals dominate where they aren't covered in garbage, or when you can build a support structure; casters are superior when you don't have that support structure and fall back on the reliable burst casters give you.

That's why I say you'd need to turn the entire paradigm on it's head; the Eles would have to be the fragile offense. That would require a total reworking of the skillset and mechanics of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Not in any reasonable fashion no. A big part of it is just how much synergy there is with physical attacks, between your own buffs, in-line damage multipliers and utility, and supporting skills that boost output of physical attackers. There's very, very little that boosts spell damage at all, and what little there is, is self buffs of straight damage; there just aren't built-in synergies and cross-character support.

It really does need to be re-designed from base mechanics.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=194

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=209

ApolloIV

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2010

D/

06 Jul 2010 at 01:15 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

casters - lots of aoe, melee - mostly single target
....

etc etc etc i really don't need to go on, this is so painfully obvious and i'm only typing it for OP's sake since he may be one of the only people in all of guild wars who does not understand it.

i think you need to take a big step back, get some medication, realize what the hell is going on in the game you are playing before ludicrously whining about it, and come back when you get a clue. this could be one of the most ridiculous "suggestions" i've ever seen on this website, and trust me that is saying a lot/

LAWL. Win. Thread should have been closed after this post.

RedDog91

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2007

Farming for Nick gifts

R/

06 Jul 2010 at 02:01 - 37

this is a QQ thread about "wah...I can't kill this mob"

I have not really seen any facts from the Op to support their claim. Everything written by OP is opinion.

belshazaarswrath

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

AMP

06 Jul 2010 at 02:01 - 38

I checked out the build you are referring too in your first post. While it might be alright it's not terribly effective when

-Foes can't be knocked down
-There's heavy blind/anti melee/weakness/cripple
-Stance stripping
-Enchant Stripping
-My rit doesn't' feel like splintering me
-Sv/AV is going to be on enemy bars
-E-Denial

Also this build requires a hell of a lot of CASTER buffing to be as strong as it is. Also I disagree with it being the best mes build out there. I run an E-Surge that does plenty of damage, has plenty of e management, and is generally a more effective build to run (at least for me).

Also Rit's and Necro's deal assloads of damage more than your average melee character with DwG,Minion mastery,Discord or what have you.

The only caster class I can think of that lags behind are ele's in HM.

Guilds Gods

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

The Spiders Lair Guild

W/Rt

06 Jul 2010 at 02:28 - 39

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blind

Your argument is invalid.

And no, daze does not compare

a) 90% > 50%
b) The only time Daze will render you completly useless (due to interrupt) is when your party is beyond res or you're in PvP and losing
c) You can still pull of all your attacks with daze, and only 10% with blind.
d) Daze can cause problems for melee (in some cases) blind does nothing to your caster

That brings us to another cause for melee death; the snare.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Snare_(tactic)

Say you have a melee class riding you like...you get the idea. You decide, should I:
a) Use Ice Spikes
b) Blurred Vision
c) Gale
d) Run into a group of my team mates, hoping they body block him enough for you to do what it was you were going to do

Now, this is all from an eles point of view. However, in a party of 4, 6 or 8 generaly there will be atleast one option to make your worthy foe completely useless.

But, how often can you make a caster useless? As a caster, well you could go mesmer and be a burden. But as a melee, what can you do? Use the (aprox.) 3 dazing skills and ride this caster for no apparent reason, not allowing them to...err cast their flare.

Also, u mad or something op?

Rick Thene

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

Confirmed. Sending Supplies.

Big Domage Krewe [DoMe]

A/W

06 Jul 2010 at 02:41 - 40

I'm not going to argue against the truth - physicals are the better damage dealers. It's just, no one in this thread has actually given a concrete reason as to WHY this should be changed. I don't see how it's detrimental to the game at all that this is the case.