I have a problem with this system when it allows a player to "buy" their PvP rewards for GW2. I have R3 Gladiator and the Rank 3 Gamer title. I am also R6 Zaishen. My Gladiator Title counts as me getting 2 points for the HoM reward but so does my Zaishen Title. The funny part: I earned Rank 3 Zaishen by 600/Smiting The Sepulchre of Dragrimmar and charging people 10k per run. I didn't earn my other zkeys through PvP methods until I started seriously doing RA a few months ago. You see the disconnect?
If people don't like PvP they shouldn't be able to earn PvP reward points for GW2 unless they do some organized PvP. Period. That would be like PvP players being able to buy Eternal Vanquisher of Tyria without ever having stepped foot on the continent.
I know there is another thread for the Gamer Title so I won't go into that but I find that NOT being a PvP title really lame.
My suggestion: Remove the Zaishen Title as a PvP title. It's not like changes can't be made. ArenaNet just lowered the requirement for the HoM HA reward from R8 to R6 with a patch. I personally think that the Z-Title needs to be "patched" off of the PvP title list. It's only fair to those of us that actually spent hours upon hours earning our PvP titles.
Make Zaishen Title Count for PvE Only
jazilla
Morphy
/signed
The Zaishen title should have been based on the total amount of Balthazar faction you've accumulated from the start, but as it is not, it should be treated as the PvE title it is.
The Zaishen title should have been based on the total amount of Balthazar faction you've accumulated from the start, but as it is not, it should be treated as the PvE title it is.
Shadar
/signed
but I don't think any further changes will be done in the HoM calc. It's a one-and-done deal with a casual approach to rewards (30/50 is easy) designed to make everyone happy (and sell more GW2)
but I don't think any further changes will be done in the HoM calc. It's a one-and-done deal with a casual approach to rewards (30/50 is easy) designed to make everyone happy (and sell more GW2)
mathiastemplar
/signed
Way too easy to achieve 50/50 for pve'ers..... Although I don't really care about others, I think it would be fair enough.
Way too easy to achieve 50/50 for pve'ers..... Although I don't really care about others, I think it would be fair enough.
Milennin
What's so bad about a buyable title? Almost every title ingame is buyable anyway. Might be a better idea to just make those Zaishen Keys untradable...
domaspiragas
/signed
I would give mine up right now if I could. (Though I earned all of mine, and didn't buy any.)
What they should have done, is made zkeys customized to an account. But way too late for that.
Edit: Looks like Milennin beat me to it.
I would give mine up right now if I could. (Though I earned all of mine, and didn't buy any.)
What they should have done, is made zkeys customized to an account. But way too late for that.
Edit: Looks like Milennin beat me to it.
jazilla
It just lessens the reward feeling of what are the hardest titles IMO to get: The PvP titles.
X Ghoul
If they do revert it (which they won't) there would probably be 90% qq pve'rs vs 10% of the population that's actually in favor of the option and saying almost every title is buyable is a bunch of bs there is only like 9 (including zaishen) out of a possible 30 something, so 30% vs 70% is not alot to even merit it an argument
BlackSephir
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Originally Posted by Milennin
What's so bad about a buyable title? Almost every title ingame is buyable anyway.
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Dre
as if you can't buy a GvG title >.>
1. join highrank gvg guild
2. let them take you along during gvg in exchange for $$
3. ??????
4. same RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing effect as Z-Keys!!!!!!! (i.e buying the title)
1. join highrank gvg guild
2. let them take you along during gvg in exchange for $$
3. ??????
4. same RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing effect as Z-Keys!!!!!!! (i.e buying the title)
Milennin
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Originally Posted by BlackSephir
Heart of the problem.
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Lortext
Removing Zaishen as a pvp title will probably result in more people trying to grind out pvp titles via syncs or match fixing.
Wyndy
All the keys I have gotten have been from Fort Aspenwood. Granted, it's not high end pvp but it IS pvp. The zaishen title isn't completely broken.
jazilla
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Originally Posted by Milennin
Not saying that buyable titles are a good thing... but what makes the Zaishen title so much more special than all the other buyable titles out there....?
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Xsiriss
Seeing as I'm nearly at r3 myself I'd rather see the title simply changed to total balthazar faction amounted, especially seeing as I've gotten every key (including a fair few before the title was introduced) the hard way. At least that way it would earn its place amongst the pvp titles without people feeling too hard done by.
Milennin
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Originally Posted by jazilla
Because the zkey title counts as the PvP title for HoM rewards transfer to GW2. The other buyable titles are for PvE.
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Oh, and before you ask. I do PvP for my Zaishen Keys, and I find it more fun than to rely on a bunch of luck finding a half decent team that can score 5 consecutive wins in Random Arenas and one that doesn't face sync'd teams.
Necro Quink
Maybe you want to think things through instead of writing a post and start whining about it! Zaishen has been introduced into PvP and zkey's can only be bought/obtained with balthazar factions/reward points (monthly predictions) which you can only get by doing PvP!
Skyy High
Fame farming says "hai". If the Zaishen title wasn't buy-able, that would not stop non-PvPers from getting those 3 points. Considering how borked PvP rewards are in GW1 anyway, we should be taking it as a good thing that PvP rewards in GW2 are starting from scratch. Maybe they'll be meaningful this time.
@Necro: The point. You've missed it.
@Necro: The point. You've missed it.
Lanier
My opinion is that there should be an option for people, who dont PvP for one reason for another (elitism, rank discrimination, etc.), to get those points. The zaishen title gives them that option. I would be fine with making it so that the zaishen title doesn't count as long as another title (like luxon or kurzick) can be used instead.
On the topic of the luxon and kurzick titles, it is insane how low it can be to be displayable in the HoM. It really should be higher r8-10ish, as these points are pretty easy to get and there are so many pve and pvp options available for obtaining them. From urgoz/deep to vanquishes to challenge missions to AB to FA to JQ to random quests... it isn't tough to get these points. I was exceptionally surprised when, as a person who has been in luxon guild all my GW life, I was able to display a kurzick statue as well. It turns out, just from doing random urgoz runs, quests and vanquishes and turning in those few points for amber chunks, I was able to obtain a high enough kurz rank for the statue.
On the topic of the luxon and kurzick titles, it is insane how low it can be to be displayable in the HoM. It really should be higher r8-10ish, as these points are pretty easy to get and there are so many pve and pvp options available for obtaining them. From urgoz/deep to vanquishes to challenge missions to AB to FA to JQ to random quests... it isn't tough to get these points. I was exceptionally surprised when, as a person who has been in luxon guild all my GW life, I was able to display a kurzick statue as well. It turns out, just from doing random urgoz runs, quests and vanquishes and turning in those few points for amber chunks, I was able to obtain a high enough kurz rank for the statue.
snowman relic
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Originally Posted by jazilla
It just lessens the reward feeling of what are the hardest titles IMO to get: The PvP titles.
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Tombguard321
I have reached a desireable Zaishen rank from RA and Alliance battles, keep in mind alot of the Zaishen title was gained during the infamous RR day but it is a wealth within the pvp community to gain some extra cash for doing something they love rather then pveing it.
And for the record I never once done RR for Heroes Battles and did not want to take place in it either. Oh do you really want more people who pve entirely to start HA'ing or doing RA for getting their rank up?
Not signed for those reasons.
And for the record I never once done RR for Heroes Battles and did not want to take place in it either. Oh do you really want more people who pve entirely to start HA'ing or doing RA for getting their rank up?
Not signed for those reasons.
lemming
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Originally Posted by Tombguard321
Oh do you really want more people who pve entirely to start HA'ing or doing RA for getting their rank up? .
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Stop being lazy.
Milennin
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Originally Posted by lemming
Do you really want more people who only pvp to have to actually do quests to get their pve monuments?
Stop being lazy. |
jazilla
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Originally Posted by Necro Quink
Maybe you want to think things through instead of writing a post and start whining about it! Zaishen has been introduced into PvP and zkey's can only be bought/obtained with balthazar factions/reward points (monthly predictions) which you can only get by doing PvP!
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To all the people that think i am QQ'ing about my suggestion...I find it laughable. I am saying that the PvP reward for the HoM should be EARNED not bought. How can it be QQ if I am saying that the lazy way should be nerfed as a reward lol?
If the z-title wasn't considered a PvP title and I was suggesting it should be, I could see saying that I was being lazy or w/e with it. I am suggesting the opposite though. And it isn't QQ lol. I am 48/50 so w/e...use your pve money to "earn" your pvp title.
dwchang
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Originally Posted by lemming
Do you really want more people who only pvp to have to actually do quests to get their pve monuments?
Stop being lazy. |
I do find it humorous that a small minority of PvE'ers are complaining that 3 out of 50 points (6%) are PvP-related so they can't as easily max out their HoM while technically 47 out of 50 points (94%) are PvE-related. You don't see PvP'ers whining that they can't fill their HoM due to their lack of PvE so frankly PvE'ers shouldn't be doing the same thing. If anything, the system HEAVILY favors PvE'ers, but that has been the case since ~2006 or 2007 so that's fine.
In short, PvE and PvP-only players made a choice to exclusively participate in one of the two game types and A.net shouldn't have to babysit or reward players who choose to exclusively participate in only one game environment. Nor should a player be forced to participate in something they don't like.
...and to stay on topic, I agree with the OP or the idea later advocating making Z-keys not tradable (although I prefer the former).
chris12xu
zkeys are obtained by doing pvp making the zaishen title a pvp title if people choose to sell their title then thats their own choice. anyway you look at it as long as z-keys are a pvp reward the title will and should be a pvp title. deal with it.
Essence Snow
No thanks ....I don't want to pay for a different pvp title...which I would do over actually playing pvp
Lanier
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Originally Posted by dwchang
I do find it humorous that a small minority of PvE'ers are complaining that 3 out of 50 points (6%) are PvP-related so they can't as easily max out their HoM while technically 47 out of 50 points (94%) are PvE-related. You don't see PvP'ers whining that they can't fill their HoM due to their lack of PvE so frankly PvE'ers shouldn't be doing the same thing. If anything, the system HEAVILY favors PvE'ers, but that has been the case since ~2006 or 2007 so that's fine. In short, PvE and PvP-only players made a choice to exclusively participate in one of the two game types and A.net shouldn't have to babysit or reward players who choose to exclusively participate in only one game environment. Nor should a player be forced to participate in something they don't like. |
The thing is, you can't really compare PvEers not having access to the pvp monument rewards to PvPers not having access to the PvE monument rewards. The reason for this is because it is easy for a PvPer to go into PvE and get the achievements. PvE is a fairly welcoming place, and npcs are never discrimnatory or anything like that. If a PvPer wanted to go after PvE monuments, they could do so pretty easily. The opposite is not true. A PvEer can't just waltz into PvP and get the achievement. PvP is so full of rank discrimination and elitism that it is pretty much impossible for the PvEer to get the titles. Plus, PvP is the place where you are expected to run meta builds (or get flamed for it). In short, PvE is a far, far more accepting place than PvP, and it is far easier for a PvPer to do enough PvE for monument rewards than it is for a PvEer to do enough PvP for monument rewards.
That said, I don't really care about any of this since I don't plan to go for 50. Im just stating this to hopefully stop the whining of the PvPers who think that a PvEer can simply walk into the battle isles and work towards one of the titles.
Shayne Hawke
God forbid you take up arms against another player in order to get a title or achievement based around taking up arms against another player.
Zaishen doesn't deserve to be known as a PvP title.
By the way, Tolkano isn't the only person who gives out Zaishen Keys.
Zaishen doesn't deserve to be known as a PvP title.
By the way, Tolkano isn't the only person who gives out Zaishen Keys.
End
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Originally Posted by X Ghoul
the option and saying almost every title is buyable is a bunch of bs there is only like 9 (including zaishen) out of a possible 30 something, so 30% vs 70% is not alot to even merit it an argument
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Here on guru. I can find people willing to run:
Leg vanquisher (4 titles)
Leg Guardian (7 titles)
Speedbookers (4 titles)
A majority of master of the north with only exploration not being done for you.
Then you can buy.
Legendary survivor from lvl 10 up.
Party Animal
Sweet Tooth
Wisdom
Zaishen
On other sites I can find people willing to farm:
Champ points
Hero Points
sooo in theory if I had enough I could pretty much buy 21 titles. Not including Survivor and Master of the North.
so 21 out of the 40 statues needed to max(more info below). Including PvP titles. Sooo over 50% of all the titles nessesary to max that can be bought.
AS for the more info. By buying protector runs. I am guarenteed the completion statues sooo +3
And I'm sure I could fairly easily find a price for a group of people to do fow, uw, deep, urgoz for me. sooo +4.
Also, lucky and unlucky can be done by afking in a manner that could make them considered buying titles. soo +2 if you count those.
The point is that that guys post is idiotic. But I totally agree that zaishen shouldn't count.
Nerel
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Originally Posted by Morphy
/signed
The Zaishen title should have been based on the total amount of Balthazar faction you've accumulated from the start, but as it is not, it should be treated as the PvE title it is. |
WTB Flames of Balthazar... *cough* Zaishen Elite *cough* yeah, Balthazar faction indeed.
jazilla
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
No thanks ....I don't want to pay for a different pvp title...which I would do over actually playing pvp
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Essence Snow
Point is if Z title is taken out ppl like me (there are lots of us) will simply buy another PvP title. So getting rid of it won't really do anything except contribute to an influx of paying leechers in other areas of PvP. Which would you like more?
Elnino
This can go two ways.
If the Zaishen title is removed as a pvp title, pvp will see a rise in activity which may solve some inactivity issues in certain formats.
However, this change will cause an increase of pve'ers in pvp. Pve'ers in a pvp team in a pvp match. I'd like to have a chance at winning thank you.
Also, Shayne has just proved that it is possible to achieve Zaishen titles without doing pvp or having to buy a single zkey. It is a pve title. Absolutely no doubt about it.
If the Zaishen title is removed as a pvp title, pvp will see a rise in activity which may solve some inactivity issues in certain formats.
However, this change will cause an increase of pve'ers in pvp. Pve'ers in a pvp team in a pvp match. I'd like to have a chance at winning thank you.
Also, Shayne has just proved that it is possible to achieve Zaishen titles without doing pvp or having to buy a single zkey. It is a pve title. Absolutely no doubt about it.
Kook~NBK~
It's not gonna happen. Switching it to a PvE title would mean taking points away from people. This is NOT good Community Relations.
Besides, the Primary way z-keys are generated is by people playing PvP (the tournament house - which was a feature of PvP - has been gone over a year now). The primary method of PvE players obtaining the title now is by buying Z-keys. Guess who they're buying them from.
/not signed
Besides, the Primary way z-keys are generated is by people playing PvP (the tournament house - which was a feature of PvP - has been gone over a year now). The primary method of PvE players obtaining the title now is by buying Z-keys. Guess who they're buying them from.
/not signed
matter of time
funny thing how pll think ...
it is you pesky pvps who sell Z-keys to other pll
it is you pesky pvps who are responsible for that
it is you pesky pvps who now try to push responsibility and consequences for others
Z-key is reward for PVP ... anyone any doubt for that? if not stop whining and come back to rage at othe PVPs or take care of ''joke'' PVE titles
it is you pesky pvps who sell Z-keys to other pll
it is you pesky pvps who are responsible for that
it is you pesky pvps who now try to push responsibility and consequences for others
Z-key is reward for PVP ... anyone any doubt for that? if not stop whining and come back to rage at othe PVPs or take care of ''joke'' PVE titles
Milennin
Let's use a funny example.
PvP'er plays PvP.
He exchanges faction for Zaishen Keys.
He sells the Zaishen Keys for sweet points.
OMFG, you don't have to PvE to get Sweettooth!! Let's make it a PvP title!!
/thread
PvP'er plays PvP.
He exchanges faction for Zaishen Keys.
He sells the Zaishen Keys for sweet points.
OMFG, you don't have to PvE to get Sweettooth!! Let's make it a PvP title!!
/thread
End
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Originally Posted by matter of time
funny thing how pll think ...
it is you pesky pvps who sell Z-keys to other pll it is you pesky pvps who are responsible for that it is you pesky pvps who now try to push responsibility and consequences for others Z-key is reward for PVP ... anyone any doubt for that? if not stop whining and come back to rage at othe PVPs or take care of ''joke'' PVE titles |
And that you can get zkeys with zcoins which you can get via PvE.
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by Elnino
If the Zaishen title is removed as a pvp title, pvp will see a rise in activity which may solve some inactivity issues in certain formats.
However, this change will cause an increase of pve'ers in pvp. Pve'ers in a pvp team in a pvp match. I'd like to have a chance at winning thank you. |
The only title that people could eventually do was commander ( by not using RR or w/e i mean ) , and now , the easiest might be r6 HA( a pver won't be able to get 1200+ in gvg fast , nor be able to get r3 codex ( can any non syncer do anyway.. ) , and glad , well we mentionned problems there a lot ...
But , as you know HA players , people will see many "bad teams" in HA and there will be an influx of all r10-12 meta players that will come back , and it will result in those " bad teams " getting 1-3 fame every hours .
So well , i know it's not really fair , but then we could just compare all these points :
- getting r6 before HA gets completly dead( 2006-2007 )
- syncing champ 3
- getting commander 3 before arena was deleted
- using texmod for cartographer
- doing kurz/luxon titles on AB
.....
End
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
The only title that people could eventually do was commander ( by not using RR or w/e i mean ) , and now , the easiest might be r6 HA( a pver won't be able to get 1200+ in gvg fast , nor be able to get r3 codex ( can any non syncer do anyway.. ) , and glad , well we mentionned problems there a lot ...
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1: roll monk
2: Load Wiki Build
3: hit enter
4: ???
5: Profit
While Ra may suck and have issues it isn't all that hard to get glad points I mean making it to 10 consec twice a day for about 2 months and you have glad 3. Not hard and not to horribly long time each day and could easily be done in a 2-3 hours (what I consider casual game time)'
This is of course solely based on my time monking on RA with some wiki build. I had no problem getting to 10 consec so long as there weren't 2 monks and the team-mates weren't idiots. Which i know idiots can be abundant but it's do-able.