Challenging S/D/M users to a time trial

FoW is a lousy area for a contest anyway.

You need pure mission area that can't be run and completed in less than 20 minutes. And to not cheat with a death to clear cons, you have to do a /deaths on your screenshot also, showing you gained at least a viable amount of exp since your last deaths. Alternative is a screen of /deaths at start and end of mission, and you have to do it without getting yourself killed.

Thanakai Temple?

Quote: Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

@above: How'd you get +10% with only one boss in FoW? Maybe I'm missing something obvious... Score for FengShuiDove!

(I note also that (unless the Italian symbol for Paragon is not "P") there's not a single copy of Fall Back on that team...)


Well, since it seems that our very first S/D/M contestant has been caught cheating, perhaps some more stringent screenshot requirements are in order.

I like the idea of doing TotPK HM, although regulating the timing out be troublesome (would be best if we could FRAPS it). TotPK does not necessarily take a long time to, is reasonably challenging, and time will not be wasted running around looking for missions. Alternatively, other similarly straightforward and challenging missions would be best for timing.

One idea that comes to mind is Jennur's Horde HM. Straightforward and with a decently wide variety of mob types. Just my thoughts.

I think GoM would be the best choice, it's got everything. Of course with the bonus, it's not too easy, nor too short, has some high HP bosses and lots of normal mobs of different types.

Completed Deep 1:30 (1:06 to Kanaxai's chamber) using no discords, 8/12,etc.

I would like to see you take this challenge, Jeydra. Can you beat 1:30 Deep 7H?


DISCLAIMER: NO MERCS WERE HARMED DURING THE MAKING OF THIS SCREENSHOT. kthx.

Silly me. S/D/M... it was so obvious. -.-

@HigherMinion: Uh... maybe I misinterpreted your post, but Jeydra is AGAINST S/D/M, just like it seems you are. lol. Also, chuckled at your DP, but I guess you got the job done, so it doesn't matter. :P

@All: I think ToPK is a good place. No quests to run between, and all foes must be killed, so we know none are being skipped. It lacks any bosses though (not that I think this is going to matter).

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Silly me. S/D/M... it was so obvious. -.-

@HigherMinion: Uh... maybe I misinterpreted your post, but Jeydra is AGAINST S/D/M, just like it seems you are. lol. Also, chuckled at your DP, but I guess you got the job done, so it doesn't matter. :P I was simply challenging Jeydra to better the screenshot.

The DP was all accumulated during Kanaxai... Failed Ymlad re-position bug three times and had to reset. Few deaths but reset DP easily throughout.

ToPK is perhaps the 1 zone that is maybe too unfairly tilted towards S/M/D. Finger completely gimps a lot of other options, but largely does not effect S/M/D.

I don't think this type of contest would mean anything at all.

1) Its so easy to cheat it...just pop some cons for the first half of a vanquish and let it expire before taking a screenshot. Heck, just go afk for a bit to make it "authentic".

2) People who loves to micro all the time could always find something that beat a meta build. Part of what made Dway, Sway, and the like popular is that they're very effective for a huge range of skill level. No "careful pulling", no "balling", no "microing".

3) Doesn't take "accidents" into account. Meta builds all have built in resiliency that makes them "foolproof". I could make builds that destroy DMS in pure speed but would fall apart the moment I don't do things right.

4) Every area has its "weakness" that can be fine tuned against. If you beat DMS with a build in one area you have to prove it beats it in most other areas as well. If I choose Vizunah Square as the area, I bet 90% of people would pull some sort of "lichway" to abuse the ridiculous amount of corpses.

5) Player builds play a factor, if I bring "SY!", I could roll with almost anything better than DMS, which usually relys on AP+YMLAD+EVAS+FH. People could also easily pull "speed clear" shenanigans...even without Shadow Form there are other builds that would let people tank 10 mobs to nuke.

Minion is there any reason in particular why you want me to try to beat that time? 90 minutes is not short, and if I have 90 uninterrupted minutes to spend on Guild Wars I'm more likely to try to clear FoW or DoA or something. If there's no reason I don't really want to try.

I don't mind ToPK as the battleground. If anyone wants to try, I'd say bring it on.

@Gabs88, if player build is a problem, I don't mind making it more flexible: run 3 Necros, 2 Rits, 2 Mesmers and one wildcard. With that I'd probably specify no mercenaries, so ...

@Unchosen - I think to stop cheating (lol 10% morale boost in FoW) easy way would be to require screenshots every 30 minutes or similar. You don't have to post them, but you should have them.

I believe S/D/M can be improved on with a general build, and do not mind testing it in multiple areas. There's nothing wrong with micro, and I don't see how anyone can fault a player for micro'ing. As for falling apart, I think I can make general builds that beat S/D/M without falling apart unless I make a serious mistake (like aggro'ing Burning Spirits without flagging heroes). Shadow Form is explicitly banned, so it shouldn't matter.

So anyone want to try?

@EFGJack - yeah, but last time I tried saying that, I got things like "the last time I checked, everyone takes an imbagon in DOA which hugely reduces the damage taken partywide" and "but most of PvE is VQ / ZB / missions, not elite areas" and even "SDM is a vanquish build, I can easily change builds to do DoA or UW or Slaver's, but builds that specifically work in those few areas tend not to be usable in the rest of the game". Even though DoA HM is clearly the hardest thing around that can be 7H'ed right now, I think you'd have to wade through a ton of reasons not to use DoA HM as a testbed before you actually get anything done ...

ToPK is a horrible playground: hi there!. Dervishes, Ritualists, Assassins, Mesmers and Paragons have an upperhand over the other professions.

Quote: Originally Posted by UnChosen 1) Its so easy to cheat it...just pop some cons for the first half of a vanquish and let it expire before taking a screenshot. Heck, just go afk for a bit to make it "authentic". Vanquishes are to unreliable to test as there is a chance of backtracking. Missions would be the best choice. the shorter the better so cons cannot be hid or taking screenies every 5 minutes to prove no cons were used.

Quote: Originally Posted by UnChosen 2) People who loves to micro all the time could always find something that beat a meta build. Part of what made Dway, Sway, and the like popular is that they're very effective for a huge range of skill level. No "careful pulling", no "balling", no "microing". that s/d/m requires no to little micro is part of what makes it popular. S/d/m build efficiency will also increase if you micro the skills. S/d/m relies on fast single kills while some other builds rely on aoe killing pitting these against each other is partly the purpose of the contest.

Quote: Originally Posted by UnChosen 3) Doesn't take "accidents" into account. Meta builds all have built in resiliency that makes them "foolproof". I could make builds that destroy DMS in pure speed but would fall apart the moment I don't do things right. See efgjacks build, some builds are build like that and live on the edge again part of the contest

Keep this thread civil and on topic or quite simply,not at all.

Thom/Rand 22 mins, non-discord. Invent shown at beggining and the end shows no cons were used. Would be nice too see if someone could do faster.

Stop beating around the bush and take the builds into one of the Slaver's Exile dungeons in Hard Mode.
Edit: Ninja'd by Outerworld.

ToPK HM is a bad playground: Ohai there! It would give Mesmers, Ssins, Para's, Dervs and Rit's an advantage over the other professions.

This only makes sense if the player has NO skills on their bar. I prefer not to have to explain why (scientific method/control/viable related). Similarly, you'd have to test both S/D/M and the challenger build in every single area, or else you're not testing anything except how well it counters hexway/KD chains/touchers/etc.

So I find this a waste, knowing that most dungeons and areas are themed and are stupid fast if you run counter builds. I'd gladly spend 2 minutes loading counter templates then spend an extra 20 minutes running an inferior (to that location) jack of all trades.

This contest is completely pointless. People have to realize that S/D/M is so good because it is a build that works well in almost all areas and not really the best build in one specific area. You can for sure come up with a better build suited for one specific area in comparison with S/D/M. Using a thousand different builds to beat S/D/M in a thousand different areas doesn't prove a thing. You better show that one build can beat S/D/M in almost all areas for that build to be the new meta.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gabs88

There are other builds that can tank just as good while dealing significantly more damage The issue isn't tanking, it's "See you on the next level!" shenanigans. It allows you to skip content.

Bypassing a level is the not same as completing it. Some lower levels of a dungeon may be more difficult than the later levels.