amazing thread! it sure gave me alot to think about.
although i highly doubt i'll be trying this anytime soon!
The Forge Runner
bl1nk6
Mistical miss
yup I just go the cheap route, I found a great runners collector set now 
(to give to guildmembers)
an axe from ascalon + 25 health (collector one)
a +5 energy wand (nolani)
a 16 armor +45/-2 stance shield(the one above thirsty river) and
a +10 energy +5 armor(ench) +45 health (ench) req.8 healing ank (collector in the maguuma jungle)
I tested it, and it's perfectly possible to run droks with this!
weapon slots: 1) Axe + shield
2) Wand + shield
3) Wand + ank
4) Axe + ank
Oh and some other note: Never ever claim 100% in a droknars forge run.. People will not believe you, and you cannot hold it long (you are very very lucky if you make it on your first try, took me like 20 tries before I made it for the first time)
You may ofcourse claim 100% with a dual runner, but only do this if you have made at least 5 runs flawless.
Just don't claim that unreachable "PRO RUNING TO DRAKNORS FOGRE ONLY 3K PAY 1K NOW 1K SNAKESDNACE 1K RONKAR 100% MADE IT 327 TIMES"
Thats just silly.
(to give to guildmembers)an axe from ascalon + 25 health (collector one)
a +5 energy wand (nolani)
a 16 armor +45/-2 stance shield(the one above thirsty river) and
a +10 energy +5 armor(ench) +45 health (ench) req.8 healing ank (collector in the maguuma jungle)
I tested it, and it's perfectly possible to run droks with this!
weapon slots: 1) Axe + shield
2) Wand + shield
3) Wand + ank
4) Axe + ank
Oh and some other note: Never ever claim 100% in a droknars forge run.. People will not believe you, and you cannot hold it long (you are very very lucky if you make it on your first try, took me like 20 tries before I made it for the first time)
You may ofcourse claim 100% with a dual runner, but only do this if you have made at least 5 runs flawless.
Just don't claim that unreachable "PRO RUNING TO DRAKNORS FOGRE ONLY 3K PAY 1K NOW 1K SNAKESDNACE 1K RONKAR 100% MADE IT 327 TIMES"
Thats just silly.
Me NoFat
Mistical thanks for that tid bit. I added it to the OP and inserted desert collector armor. That is the exact setup I used when I started running the forge. Only difference was that I carried the HoD sword which I accidently sold to the merchant
Minus Sign
Snakedance
Snakedance is considerably easier than Lornars, what with not having to contend with uber-agroing wurms chasing you through ¾ of the entire zone, but still has its challenges. For the uninitiated who still find the post-Lornars Droks run a challenge, I’m continuing the guide where Me NoFat, Mistical miss, and the others left off.
The key to Snakedance (as with the rest of the Droks Run) is in the regen points. Finding safe haven amidst the myriad level 24s running rampant through these zones is a real challenge for the beginning runner. This a quick run down of where the most frequent regen points I’ve found are, and the safest way to get to them. I’m assuming you have at least these core skills to work with, and not a hybrid build like the Wa/E. You should have these skills:
Charge {E}
Sprint
Balanced Stance
Endure Pain
*Sidenote* Be Dynamic. Just like Lornars, you can’t expect regen points to be open all the time. Patrols block them, bad spawns block them. Just, sheer bad TIMING will block them out of your run. The point I’m making is: don’t ignore a regen point because you “know” that another is waiting in the wings just ahead, and it’s “safer” or “faster”. That’s how new runners die. If you find a safe place always…
always always always!
Regen your skills.
*cracks knuckles*
Usually (and I mean about 95 times out of 100) you’ll see a patrol walking south as you head out from the spawnpoint. Follow them, but don’t agro. Let them mix with a group that is at or near the first big switchback; then kick up sprint and run in (try to burn off 7 to 9 seconds; this will give you the advantage of moving deeper into their agro range before they start hitting you with attacks. It’s a useful trick; practice it.). Wait until they start to throw and bring up your Balanced Stance, which knocks out Sprint. Charge to run through the first group and hopefully run to the southeastern most part of the turn to a safe regen point for your skills. There is a second and third group of Tundras lingering along the switchback so, if the second is nearby, be ready with sprint (it should recharge in the 10 to 11 seconds charge was up) but don’t cast until you are already past the second group and know where you are going to regen. Sprint/Endure Pain there, and regen. Press “U” and look at your map if its not up already.
There is another turn with at most two patrols, a pack of easily avoided trolls, and usually a large group of Tundra Giants as you circle through and head south again. Where you want to head is that little triangle on the west side of the next turn, the little beak-looking point on the trail. Agro is avoidable most of the time, and you can handily avoid the patrols by being patient.
Once at the beak, let the patrol pass you, heading north or south, and sprint to the next big group of Tundras. The next safe place is the little donut/eyeball shaped area on the west side of the trail. Balanced/Charge there, regening before if you get the chance as there is often a second group of tundras waiting for you, and take a breather.
Now, you’ve got 3 choices where to go. You can stick to the west path and face some Azure shadows early, try the middle path (and I hear you avoid them for a while, but have to deal with more Tundras in the doing) or try to make it all the way over to the east run. I hear that’s easier, but I learned droks on the west side.
We’re going west. B/C through Tundras and as you (usually) reach your first obvious regen point a small group of Azure Shadow’s should pop up nearby. Your first instinct is to freak out, kick up Sprint/Endure Pain and try to outrun them. Don’t. There is always another group of poppers waiting in the wings, and typically a 3rd as well. Let Balanced Stance stay up as long as it can, taking the knockdown out of Signet of Judgement, and then bring up your Sprint, saving Endure Pain in case that 3rd group is waiting to jump you. You should find a safe haven along the wall in the center where the three trails merge on the south end. Regen and run southwest to the rez shrine and another safe haven.
Usually, that’s the only drama on this track. Run southeast from the rez point, taking the north turn into the series of switchbacks that lead to Grenth’s Footprint. Some people like to exit and rez their team. I say don’t; too many people wanting droks runs have never been to Grenth’s, so the load times and dropped people make Grenth’s a liability, whereas having them alive…makes them a liability
The center road from Grenth’s is free of critters until you reach the bowl at the end. Take it until you see some Tundras; typically your last groups. B/C through and hug the east side for more safe regen points. You should see a cave with a multitude of trolls guarding it, or one more small group of Tundras AND a multitude of trolls. The tactic is the same. Try to Balanced/Charge through that mess and (hopefully) break agro before you reach the cave mouth.
Beyond you’ll see one boss monster, a pack of trolls, and an Ice Siege Golem. DON’T RUN IN UNLESS YOU COULDN’T BREAK AGRO FROM THE MESS! Kick up whatever hex protection you have and walk in carefully. Grab agro from a troll and walk north, where you came from. Try to get the group to follow you until most of the trolls are outside the cave mouth and on your side. Now Balanced/Charge through the group. This way, they don’t bottleneck inside the cave (the trolls only threat) encircle and kill you.
There is rarely safe haven for a long time after that cave. There is also no need. Beyond the cave are a standard fare of trolls and Blessed Griffons. Alternate Sprint with Charge and just run through them. Either through unlucky spawns or game design, I don't often find a safe haven until I reach my first (sometimes second) group of Stone Summit, near the end of this leg. Knockdown from the Herders is a factor, so keep Balanced Stance in reserve. Timing always seems to go my way alternating Sprint and Charge through the trolls and Griffons, so you should have Charge either just tunred on or ready to cast when those herders start stomping their feet.
Just after you see your first group of Stone Summit you should break out into a semi-wide open area, usually with 3 groups waiting in the wings. I’ve found dead center to be the safest place to regen Balanced/Charge, but you shouldn’t really need to at this point. Still, its nice to have, so B/C through the south groups, past some Blessed Griffons and more Stone Summit to make your way into Camp Rankor.
That’s Snakedance
Snakedance is considerably easier than Lornars, what with not having to contend with uber-agroing wurms chasing you through ¾ of the entire zone, but still has its challenges. For the uninitiated who still find the post-Lornars Droks run a challenge, I’m continuing the guide where Me NoFat, Mistical miss, and the others left off.
The key to Snakedance (as with the rest of the Droks Run) is in the regen points. Finding safe haven amidst the myriad level 24s running rampant through these zones is a real challenge for the beginning runner. This a quick run down of where the most frequent regen points I’ve found are, and the safest way to get to them. I’m assuming you have at least these core skills to work with, and not a hybrid build like the Wa/E. You should have these skills:
Charge {E}
Sprint
Balanced Stance
Endure Pain
*Sidenote* Be Dynamic. Just like Lornars, you can’t expect regen points to be open all the time. Patrols block them, bad spawns block them. Just, sheer bad TIMING will block them out of your run. The point I’m making is: don’t ignore a regen point because you “know” that another is waiting in the wings just ahead, and it’s “safer” or “faster”. That’s how new runners die. If you find a safe place always…
always always always!
Regen your skills.
*cracks knuckles*
Usually (and I mean about 95 times out of 100) you’ll see a patrol walking south as you head out from the spawnpoint. Follow them, but don’t agro. Let them mix with a group that is at or near the first big switchback; then kick up sprint and run in (try to burn off 7 to 9 seconds; this will give you the advantage of moving deeper into their agro range before they start hitting you with attacks. It’s a useful trick; practice it.). Wait until they start to throw and bring up your Balanced Stance, which knocks out Sprint. Charge to run through the first group and hopefully run to the southeastern most part of the turn to a safe regen point for your skills. There is a second and third group of Tundras lingering along the switchback so, if the second is nearby, be ready with sprint (it should recharge in the 10 to 11 seconds charge was up) but don’t cast until you are already past the second group and know where you are going to regen. Sprint/Endure Pain there, and regen. Press “U” and look at your map if its not up already.
There is another turn with at most two patrols, a pack of easily avoided trolls, and usually a large group of Tundra Giants as you circle through and head south again. Where you want to head is that little triangle on the west side of the next turn, the little beak-looking point on the trail. Agro is avoidable most of the time, and you can handily avoid the patrols by being patient.
Once at the beak, let the patrol pass you, heading north or south, and sprint to the next big group of Tundras. The next safe place is the little donut/eyeball shaped area on the west side of the trail. Balanced/Charge there, regening before if you get the chance as there is often a second group of tundras waiting for you, and take a breather.
Now, you’ve got 3 choices where to go. You can stick to the west path and face some Azure shadows early, try the middle path (and I hear you avoid them for a while, but have to deal with more Tundras in the doing) or try to make it all the way over to the east run. I hear that’s easier, but I learned droks on the west side.
We’re going west. B/C through Tundras and as you (usually) reach your first obvious regen point a small group of Azure Shadow’s should pop up nearby. Your first instinct is to freak out, kick up Sprint/Endure Pain and try to outrun them. Don’t. There is always another group of poppers waiting in the wings, and typically a 3rd as well. Let Balanced Stance stay up as long as it can, taking the knockdown out of Signet of Judgement, and then bring up your Sprint, saving Endure Pain in case that 3rd group is waiting to jump you. You should find a safe haven along the wall in the center where the three trails merge on the south end. Regen and run southwest to the rez shrine and another safe haven.
Usually, that’s the only drama on this track. Run southeast from the rez point, taking the north turn into the series of switchbacks that lead to Grenth’s Footprint. Some people like to exit and rez their team. I say don’t; too many people wanting droks runs have never been to Grenth’s, so the load times and dropped people make Grenth’s a liability, whereas having them alive…makes them a liability
The center road from Grenth’s is free of critters until you reach the bowl at the end. Take it until you see some Tundras; typically your last groups. B/C through and hug the east side for more safe regen points. You should see a cave with a multitude of trolls guarding it, or one more small group of Tundras AND a multitude of trolls. The tactic is the same. Try to Balanced/Charge through that mess and (hopefully) break agro before you reach the cave mouth.
Beyond you’ll see one boss monster, a pack of trolls, and an Ice Siege Golem. DON’T RUN IN UNLESS YOU COULDN’T BREAK AGRO FROM THE MESS! Kick up whatever hex protection you have and walk in carefully. Grab agro from a troll and walk north, where you came from. Try to get the group to follow you until most of the trolls are outside the cave mouth and on your side. Now Balanced/Charge through the group. This way, they don’t bottleneck inside the cave (the trolls only threat) encircle and kill you.
There is rarely safe haven for a long time after that cave. There is also no need. Beyond the cave are a standard fare of trolls and Blessed Griffons. Alternate Sprint with Charge and just run through them. Either through unlucky spawns or game design, I don't often find a safe haven until I reach my first (sometimes second) group of Stone Summit, near the end of this leg. Knockdown from the Herders is a factor, so keep Balanced Stance in reserve. Timing always seems to go my way alternating Sprint and Charge through the trolls and Griffons, so you should have Charge either just tunred on or ready to cast when those herders start stomping their feet.
Just after you see your first group of Stone Summit you should break out into a semi-wide open area, usually with 3 groups waiting in the wings. I’ve found dead center to be the safest place to regen Balanced/Charge, but you shouldn’t really need to at this point. Still, its nice to have, so B/C through the south groups, past some Blessed Griffons and more Stone Summit to make your way into Camp Rankor.
That’s Snakedance
Mistical miss
well written 
Sk8tborderx
Thank you Minus Sign for posting a guide for Snake Dance.
Mistical miss
btw its runes not ruins ^_^ (To Me NoFat, its in the "do it cheap" part)
and can you get 12 tactics 10 strength 8 healing prayers, without using the 15 attrib points from the quests? (using minor runes of tactics and strength)
and can you get 12 tactics 10 strength 8 healing prayers, without using the 15 attrib points from the quests? (using minor runes of tactics and strength)
Minus Sign
Talus Chute
If you actually need a full on walkthrough of Talus, then you don’t need to be running Droks yet. As it starts from a town, the ability to re-skillset and zone your group back to Rankor makes this a cake walk. Honestly, I think most people who claim 100% successful experience aren’t lying. They have 100% success…practicing between Rankor and Droks.
/sarcastic rant off
The only high point of the Rankor/Droks run is right at the beginning. After the S-curve you come to a small group of Azure’s with a boss. The trick is to break agro from this group before coming in contact with a group of pop-up Azure’s between you and the rez shrine. Failure to do this results in one of two outcomes:
1. You try to plow through the pop up group, with Balanced now a ticking time bomb waiting to drop (Charge is already gone) and run smack dab into a group of Avica’s who eat you alive after both groups of Azure’s have knocked your HP to sadistic levels with spammed Judgment signets.
2. You run BACK north—where you came from—and sprint away from both groups. Let them intermingle of separate as you regen to try again. If it looks nasty, you can always zone back to Rankor.
Since most people don’t like to retreat, I’ll give you my tip for keeping the pop-up group down and still break agro from the first. It’s just like the tundra trick: Sprint in and this time wait until about 1 second AFTER you see the Signet symbols start to swirl over the Azure’s heads. Kick up Balanced Stance (you should be either right beside the Azure’s who have bunched together, or just past them). Bring up Charge just as the first Signet of Judgment strikes you and run as far to the east as the trail allows. If an Azure follows you to cast something, wait for him. Don’t be caught in your regen point with one Azure chasing you, cast-locked. He’ll drag the entire group with him and waste your efforts. Instead, stand slightly away from your regen point (5-6 step) and let him sound off. Then run to your regen and he should fold back into the herd.
After that, regen and B/C through the pop-ups, kicking up Sprint when Charge drops to get away from those Avica’s.
Beyond this point, any group that you meet is either easily avoidable or easily outrun. The only “threat’ is a cast-locked Avica. Sometimes, when an Avica begins to cast a spell on you as you slip out of agro range, they will follow. You can’t outrun them and they won’t break until they fire off. If this “tail” concerns you find a safe place to stop, let him cast, and then run away. He should stop following and go home.
Welcome to Droks
If you actually need a full on walkthrough of Talus, then you don’t need to be running Droks yet. As it starts from a town, the ability to re-skillset and zone your group back to Rankor makes this a cake walk. Honestly, I think most people who claim 100% successful experience aren’t lying. They have 100% success…practicing between Rankor and Droks.
/sarcastic rant off
The only high point of the Rankor/Droks run is right at the beginning. After the S-curve you come to a small group of Azure’s with a boss. The trick is to break agro from this group before coming in contact with a group of pop-up Azure’s between you and the rez shrine. Failure to do this results in one of two outcomes:
1. You try to plow through the pop up group, with Balanced now a ticking time bomb waiting to drop (Charge is already gone) and run smack dab into a group of Avica’s who eat you alive after both groups of Azure’s have knocked your HP to sadistic levels with spammed Judgment signets.
2. You run BACK north—where you came from—and sprint away from both groups. Let them intermingle of separate as you regen to try again. If it looks nasty, you can always zone back to Rankor.
Since most people don’t like to retreat, I’ll give you my tip for keeping the pop-up group down and still break agro from the first. It’s just like the tundra trick: Sprint in and this time wait until about 1 second AFTER you see the Signet symbols start to swirl over the Azure’s heads. Kick up Balanced Stance (you should be either right beside the Azure’s who have bunched together, or just past them). Bring up Charge just as the first Signet of Judgment strikes you and run as far to the east as the trail allows. If an Azure follows you to cast something, wait for him. Don’t be caught in your regen point with one Azure chasing you, cast-locked. He’ll drag the entire group with him and waste your efforts. Instead, stand slightly away from your regen point (5-6 step) and let him sound off. Then run to your regen and he should fold back into the herd.
After that, regen and B/C through the pop-ups, kicking up Sprint when Charge drops to get away from those Avica’s.
Beyond this point, any group that you meet is either easily avoidable or easily outrun. The only “threat’ is a cast-locked Avica. Sometimes, when an Avica begins to cast a spell on you as you slip out of agro range, they will follow. You can’t outrun them and they won’t break until they fire off. If this “tail” concerns you find a safe place to stop, let him cast, and then run away. He should stop following and go home.
Welcome to Droks
Mistical miss
Nice one again
Oh and my brother actually got killed in talus chute once :P
He turned on balance too early and got knocked by azures, they kept following, and as he was struggling to get away, he took some hits from the spiteful spirit as well, he ended up on being owned by the lvl 10 Ice Golem (what a most horrible death)
Oh and my brother actually got killed in talus chute once :P
He turned on balance too early and got knocked by azures, they kept following, and as he was struggling to get away, he took some hits from the spiteful spirit as well, he ended up on being owned by the lvl 10 Ice Golem (what a most horrible death)
Sk8tborderx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me NoFat
Only difference was that I carried the HoD sword which I accidently sold to the merchant
HAHA seems like both of us have problems selling running or farming equipment to the merchant.
HAHA seems like both of us have problems selling running or farming equipment to the merchant.
Me NoFat
IMPORTANT: Tips from the Pro's is now closed. You can continue to offer your insight at the end of the thread. If there is something that offers a major improvement I will add it or replace something. This thread is getting long and I believe has *everything* needed. Unless there is a major breakthrough this thread is now complete.
I would like to send a special thanks to all that donate their knowlege and insight to the players on guildwarsguru.com
A special thanks to those that donated to the creation of this thread either directly or indirectly.
Mistical Miss (Maps and detail tips)
Sk8tborderx (tips from pros)
minus sign (tips from pros)
Kvdoom
Racthoh
mattjones527
murder in china
ubermancer
ensign
elurian
sectus
Ly Rampart
I would like to send a special thanks to all that donate their knowlege and insight to the players on guildwarsguru.com
A special thanks to those that donated to the creation of this thread either directly or indirectly.
Mistical Miss (Maps and detail tips)
Sk8tborderx (tips from pros)
minus sign (tips from pros)
Kvdoom
Racthoh
mattjones527
murder in china
ubermancer
ensign
elurian
sectus
Ly Rampart
Mustache Mayhem
Might as well post my drokars run build.. it's pretty much 100% on all the spawns after you learn some things.. kinda different from what's posted here too- I think I'm going to leave GW for good this time lol not much to do until factions comes around anyways.. hope you all the best with this build- it took me a couple days of test runs to nail lonars down on every possible spawn
Equipment:
Hod Helm
Plate Body
Plate Legs
Plate Arms
Knights Boots
Sup Absorb
Sup Vigor
Malions Shield
Hod Sword of Fortitude +30
Protection Ankh (9 req) +45(enchanted) +5 armor(enchanted) Crafted in Drokars
Minor Runes (Strength, Tactics)
Attributes:
Healing 8
Protection 9
Strength 9
Tactics 12
Things to note on this build..
1. I've run this solo quite a bit and has little or no down time during the run if done right (even in snakes you can run non-stop).. having said that it's more about key points in the run that you have to practice
2. There is no healing other than mending and endure in this build.. it's all damage reduction and the HOD Helm for hexes.. No veil
3. You still have to avoid heretics.. Ice Golems and Pines are pretty easy to run through though =]
Skills:
Balanced Stance
Mend Ailment
Mending
Balthazars Spirit
Shielding Hands
Charge {E}
Sprint
Endure Pain
Lonars:
I'm only going to go over the key points in the run.. the rest is a cakewalk really
Spawn in Lonars throw on Mending and run up until your almost to the imps/pines.. Throw on Balthazars
You should have around 8 energy left and no pips. Make sure you have Malions Shield/Hod Sword in one wep slot (equipped) and the Protection Ankh/Hod Sword in another
Run in and take the hits- you don't need sprint here it's more like a mana charger than anything.. usually leave them behind with around 15+ energy stored.. if you have the avicara show up you can use shielding hands and with traps mend ailment- once you get up to the curve before the cave mouth you'll see a little pack of imps running thier little legs off ahead
Keep to the right side (you can sprint away from certain imp spawns that happen there too) but you want to end up on the right hand side by the mouth probably taking hits from a worm in most spawns
Wait for the patrol to run past and start your way into the tunnel, before you round the lip- here's the important part.. you can lose the worms 100% of the time like this.. kick on balanced stance- you should still be next to the wall and not into the tunnel itself yet.. you'll see the worm(s) hit as your rounding the lip in- charge right at that point =]
If you did it in the right spot right as they hit you'll see them hit one more time inside but they won't pop up in front of you- you'll just see the damage behind and they're left in the dust.. if you see one pop in front of you while your inside- you did'nt do it right- just takes a little practice but that's how you rid yourself of the major problem in this run
In the tunnel your spirit will more than likely be stripped.. immediately following charge wearing off you can sprint to the end of the tunnel and there's usually a ice golem group at the top- sometimes 2 depending on spawn.. even avicara up there sometimes.. this is where you can start counting your duckets if your worm free
When you hit the top stick to the left side of the tunnel and go around the Ice Golem Mob if that's the spawn.. If they are blocking the exit (1 or 2 sets of mobs) just run into the first mob with the sprint you have left and recast Balths Spirit if necessary - followed by balanced stance.. you'll get hexed and slowed here so no point in using charge just yet.. soon as you got both stance and spirit back you can shielding hands when slowed and charge as soon as the hex wears off.. course mend ailment for traps- once you get this down it's kinda fun.. I actually run right through these mobs later in the run just to save time
Another great trick on certain spawns where the avicara are on the low end of the tunnel is to use sheilding hands right after you've balanced and then hit the lip and wait for the worm to bite, charge- the hands will get stripped instead of spirit and you can be as wreckless as you want up top
I usually don't do any rests unless something bad happened like a double strip- then you can switch to your protection ankh for +12 mana as a last resort in those situations + you have endure.. why I like the ankh, the hitpoints are the same as when I'm weilding the malions- cost of 11 armor for +12 mana is'nt bad.. and if you do switch for mana- stay with the ankh don't switch back for the extra 11 armor and run with 0 mana.. you want to get out of the dangerzone with sprint and endure if your charge wears off
When your hexed with a slow- that's the perfect time to throw on shielding hands.. when it wears- charge.. after awhile you'll see you can go through the end of lonars with no problems like this- mana comes from the spirit and your damage reduction is there with hands.. just remember that order going into any ice golem/pine mob-
1. Mending and Balths on
2. Balanced Stance and go as far in as you can until you get slowed
3. Shielding Hands (while slowed)
4. Charge right as the slow wears
Now dreads has some bad spawns I can't really say much more- heretics own.. best bet is to throw mending on right away and take off sprinting full to the right- switch to charge when that runs out and hope the heretic did'nt walk too far in.. this is the only area you really have no control over how to beat the spawn.. but say maybe 85% - 90% of the time it's money- if you get that bad spawn you can always re-zone
Snakes is fun with shielding hands.. you get hit for 0's with it up- so when your stance runs out you can always hands/sprint until it's back and keep going.. balthazars spirit works well here- after grenths you can remove it for the jog to rankor
Talus Chute.. Mending on the spawn and run up to where the shadows are at- throw on balths.. you should have 15 mana- walk in and as they're casting sig, stance and charge- this'll bring you to the second group and take care of most all of the sigs at the same time.. soon as balanced stance wears go into sprint and run to the right- you'll end up with around half health and hexed exiting that area (no resting involved).. from there you can remove your enchants and cycle sprint/charge all the way to droks
Hope it helps more people with this run.. I'm out
(I might make my solo toa UW build available and solo sorrows builds if I have time next weekend)
Equipment:
Hod Helm
Plate Body
Plate Legs
Plate Arms
Knights Boots
Sup Absorb
Sup Vigor
Malions Shield
Hod Sword of Fortitude +30
Protection Ankh (9 req) +45(enchanted) +5 armor(enchanted) Crafted in Drokars
Minor Runes (Strength, Tactics)
Attributes:
Healing 8
Protection 9
Strength 9
Tactics 12
Things to note on this build..
1. I've run this solo quite a bit and has little or no down time during the run if done right (even in snakes you can run non-stop).. having said that it's more about key points in the run that you have to practice
2. There is no healing other than mending and endure in this build.. it's all damage reduction and the HOD Helm for hexes.. No veil
3. You still have to avoid heretics.. Ice Golems and Pines are pretty easy to run through though =]
Skills:
Balanced Stance
Mend Ailment
Mending
Balthazars Spirit
Shielding Hands
Charge {E}
Sprint
Endure Pain
Lonars:
I'm only going to go over the key points in the run.. the rest is a cakewalk really
Spawn in Lonars throw on Mending and run up until your almost to the imps/pines.. Throw on Balthazars
You should have around 8 energy left and no pips. Make sure you have Malions Shield/Hod Sword in one wep slot (equipped) and the Protection Ankh/Hod Sword in another
Run in and take the hits- you don't need sprint here it's more like a mana charger than anything.. usually leave them behind with around 15+ energy stored.. if you have the avicara show up you can use shielding hands and with traps mend ailment- once you get up to the curve before the cave mouth you'll see a little pack of imps running thier little legs off ahead
Keep to the right side (you can sprint away from certain imp spawns that happen there too) but you want to end up on the right hand side by the mouth probably taking hits from a worm in most spawns
Wait for the patrol to run past and start your way into the tunnel, before you round the lip- here's the important part.. you can lose the worms 100% of the time like this.. kick on balanced stance- you should still be next to the wall and not into the tunnel itself yet.. you'll see the worm(s) hit as your rounding the lip in- charge right at that point =]
If you did it in the right spot right as they hit you'll see them hit one more time inside but they won't pop up in front of you- you'll just see the damage behind and they're left in the dust.. if you see one pop in front of you while your inside- you did'nt do it right- just takes a little practice but that's how you rid yourself of the major problem in this run
In the tunnel your spirit will more than likely be stripped.. immediately following charge wearing off you can sprint to the end of the tunnel and there's usually a ice golem group at the top- sometimes 2 depending on spawn.. even avicara up there sometimes.. this is where you can start counting your duckets if your worm free
When you hit the top stick to the left side of the tunnel and go around the Ice Golem Mob if that's the spawn.. If they are blocking the exit (1 or 2 sets of mobs) just run into the first mob with the sprint you have left and recast Balths Spirit if necessary - followed by balanced stance.. you'll get hexed and slowed here so no point in using charge just yet.. soon as you got both stance and spirit back you can shielding hands when slowed and charge as soon as the hex wears off.. course mend ailment for traps- once you get this down it's kinda fun.. I actually run right through these mobs later in the run just to save time
Another great trick on certain spawns where the avicara are on the low end of the tunnel is to use sheilding hands right after you've balanced and then hit the lip and wait for the worm to bite, charge- the hands will get stripped instead of spirit and you can be as wreckless as you want up top
I usually don't do any rests unless something bad happened like a double strip- then you can switch to your protection ankh for +12 mana as a last resort in those situations + you have endure.. why I like the ankh, the hitpoints are the same as when I'm weilding the malions- cost of 11 armor for +12 mana is'nt bad.. and if you do switch for mana- stay with the ankh don't switch back for the extra 11 armor and run with 0 mana.. you want to get out of the dangerzone with sprint and endure if your charge wears off
When your hexed with a slow- that's the perfect time to throw on shielding hands.. when it wears- charge.. after awhile you'll see you can go through the end of lonars with no problems like this- mana comes from the spirit and your damage reduction is there with hands.. just remember that order going into any ice golem/pine mob-
1. Mending and Balths on
2. Balanced Stance and go as far in as you can until you get slowed
3. Shielding Hands (while slowed)
4. Charge right as the slow wears
Now dreads has some bad spawns I can't really say much more- heretics own.. best bet is to throw mending on right away and take off sprinting full to the right- switch to charge when that runs out and hope the heretic did'nt walk too far in.. this is the only area you really have no control over how to beat the spawn.. but say maybe 85% - 90% of the time it's money- if you get that bad spawn you can always re-zone
Snakes is fun with shielding hands.. you get hit for 0's with it up- so when your stance runs out you can always hands/sprint until it's back and keep going.. balthazars spirit works well here- after grenths you can remove it for the jog to rankor
Talus Chute.. Mending on the spawn and run up to where the shadows are at- throw on balths.. you should have 15 mana- walk in and as they're casting sig, stance and charge- this'll bring you to the second group and take care of most all of the sigs at the same time.. soon as balanced stance wears go into sprint and run to the right- you'll end up with around half health and hexed exiting that area (no resting involved).. from there you can remove your enchants and cycle sprint/charge all the way to droks
Hope it helps more people with this run.. I'm out
(I might make my solo toa UW build available and solo sorrows builds if I have time next weekend)
mattjones527
I've been doing a little testing with the worms aggro recently. Usually when I run through the first worm cave I have noticed I will kind of run in an arc, following that of the caves path.
I tried instead running in straight lines in that part, it apeared the worms chasing me past the top of the cave occured less running in this manner. I have never heard of this tactic before, so I was wandering if anyone else had.
I did 4 runs running in an arc and 4 runs in a straight path. On the arc runs 2 out of 4 times the worms followed me past the top of the cave. On the straight runs 0 out of 4 times the worms followed past the top of the cave. Perhaps it was just luck on those straight runs, anyway I just want to know if anyone else has ever tested this more than I have. If you have done testing at all please share your results.
I tried instead running in straight lines in that part, it apeared the worms chasing me past the top of the cave occured less running in this manner. I have never heard of this tactic before, so I was wandering if anyone else had.
I did 4 runs running in an arc and 4 runs in a straight path. On the arc runs 2 out of 4 times the worms followed me past the top of the cave. On the straight runs 0 out of 4 times the worms followed past the top of the cave. Perhaps it was just luck on those straight runs, anyway I just want to know if anyone else has ever tested this more than I have. If you have done testing at all please share your results.
Ly Rampart
Well the key is to put as much distance from the worm when they pop up so arcing is bad, straight lines like you stated are better.
So it all comes down to ur timing and when u charge away.
I generally stick to the left wall in the first tunnel as this concentrates the worms in one place.
It takes practice, but you can stop the chaser worms.
So it all comes down to ur timing and when u charge away.
I generally stick to the left wall in the first tunnel as this concentrates the worms in one place.
It takes practice, but you can stop the chaser worms.
Mistical miss
Wow, never thought you could just jog trough it without holy veil ^_^, guess it's easier with platemail ^_^...
About the chaser worms, just hit balance as late as you can, followed by a charge as late as you can, (to run from the avicara and if a bad spawn, the pinesouls + Ice golems) and you will be past the hard part when the worm is still knocking on you, then you have all the time to get rid of him. Most of the time I get nice, non-chaser worms tough, I think it has something to do with them trying to attack/cast a spell on you. If you move quick enuf they wont even try..
About the chaser worms, just hit balance as late as you can, followed by a charge as late as you can, (to run from the avicara and if a bad spawn, the pinesouls + Ice golems) and you will be past the hard part when the worm is still knocking on you, then you have all the time to get rid of him. Most of the time I get nice, non-chaser worms tough, I think it has something to do with them trying to attack/cast a spell on you. If you move quick enuf they wont even try..
Mustache Mayhem
yeah used to avoid them like the plague.. just alot easier with the damage reduction noticed =] I always tried wacky builds though I've rarely picked up ideas on the forums that really worked great- Racthoh's thread on fow was strait genious I thought- but even worked out some tweaks as I'm sure alot of people did where you can practically sleep and kill those cave spiders =]
even tried this run with dolyaks in the build one time- that did'nt work so well.. what really got me thinking was healing hands- pretty awesome elite on a run like this and shielding hands is kinda a half ass version of that without loosing charge.. the thing I did'nt like about viel is sure it'll get you by one ice mob- but try that with 2 back to back (there is a spawn like that in lonars up at the exit to the tunnel).. and the traps- ailment is nice.. just came down to fast damage reduction or a non elite healing hands.. tried breeze but the 10 mana is'nt really feasable in a run.. just turned out to work so well after a few tests
even tried this run with dolyaks in the build one time- that did'nt work so well.. what really got me thinking was healing hands- pretty awesome elite on a run like this and shielding hands is kinda a half ass version of that without loosing charge.. the thing I did'nt like about viel is sure it'll get you by one ice mob- but try that with 2 back to back (there is a spawn like that in lonars up at the exit to the tunnel).. and the traps- ailment is nice.. just came down to fast damage reduction or a non elite healing hands.. tried breeze but the 10 mana is'nt really feasable in a run.. just turned out to work so well after a few tests
aB-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustache Mayhem
the thing I did'nt like about viel is sure it'll get you by one ice mob
Ice golems ALWAYS cast rust first, and with holy veil AND the HOD helm on, it takes them 4x as long to cast it. Then, it takes 4x as long for them to cast their freeze, and by then you're already on the edge of their aggro circle. I carry both holy veil AND smite hex in situations where there are multiple groups of ice golems. As for the traps, mend ailment works, as does purge conditions.
Mustache Mayhem
yeah guess we played different games.. the hod helm cuts only the duration of a hex- you can take veil if that's your style.. I was just pointing out with damage reduction you can survive pretty much anything they dish out- found taking a hex removal was a wasted slot after this
Me NoFat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustache Mayhem
yeah guess we played different games.. the hod helm cuts only the duration of a hex- you can take veil if that's your style.. I was just pointing out with damage reduction you can survive pretty much anything they dish out- found taking a hex removal was a wasted slot after this
Mustache -
What I am sure he meant was that with Holy Veil the hex time to cast is increased. So you are not playing different games. You are just not reading the skill description for Holy Veil. That is the main reason I use it. Paired with the HoD helm that causes them to last 1/2 as long it is a very good combination. I just ran it with your build. Sure it is possible. I have also run it as a W/Me not so much fun but it can be done. There is a challenge on this site also for a 55 monk to run it which has been done. I am positive that your build works for you. If you noticed Shielding Hands is an option in my OP. I do however consider your build inferior to the main stream build.
You mentioned energy problems with breeze. I do not use breeze but I have and I never had an energy problem. You probably have this issue because you run in plate and not glads. Glads gives you extra energy and with a good weapon/offhand combo as mentioned you can get up to between 33-40 energy. I see no problems running this with any build when you can draw on that much energy. The extra damage reduction from plate is not enough to warrant losing the energy IMO.
By reading your post I can tell that you are knowledgeable about the run. I would argue that it is your experience and not your build that make you successful in this run.
As far as Balths goes there is no way that I can recommend that you drop a hex removal for an energy management skill when you should not have an energy problem.
What I am sure he meant was that with Holy Veil the hex time to cast is increased. So you are not playing different games. You are just not reading the skill description for Holy Veil. That is the main reason I use it. Paired with the HoD helm that causes them to last 1/2 as long it is a very good combination. I just ran it with your build. Sure it is possible. I have also run it as a W/Me not so much fun but it can be done. There is a challenge on this site also for a 55 monk to run it which has been done. I am positive that your build works for you. If you noticed Shielding Hands is an option in my OP. I do however consider your build inferior to the main stream build.
You mentioned energy problems with breeze. I do not use breeze but I have and I never had an energy problem. You probably have this issue because you run in plate and not glads. Glads gives you extra energy and with a good weapon/offhand combo as mentioned you can get up to between 33-40 energy. I see no problems running this with any build when you can draw on that much energy. The extra damage reduction from plate is not enough to warrant losing the energy IMO.
By reading your post I can tell that you are knowledgeable about the run. I would argue that it is your experience and not your build that make you successful in this run.
As far as Balths goes there is no way that I can recommend that you drop a hex removal for an energy management skill when you should not have an energy problem.
Mistical miss
I just hate putting the maintained enchantments back on everytime ^_^and which order is better: mending - holy veil, or holy veil - mending (one has more energy leftover, the other protects from a shattered holy veil)
testing it now ^_^ I think I will stick with the energy..not sure tough..
testing it now ^_^ I think I will stick with the energy..not sure tough..
Mustache Mayhem
yeah that's true fat to a point.. dunno about 4x the hex duration though- hate exaggerations.. I have a set of glads and can run it with veil, it just takes longer with the rests for mana recharge and that back to back mob on one spawn.. if I went back to glads and viel instead of spirit I would definitely change the fortitude mod to defense.. thing with my build is you can wear plate with 605 hitpoints and just run non-stop basically through the whole thing- mana is never an issue unless your double stripped (which does happen sometimes but very rarely)- the hands can act as a cover enchant as well for the strips.. you basically never lose mending like this either.. always have a cover for it- why I found no use for healing either
it's cool you think my build is inferior.. I know people are stuck in thier ways =] whatever works for you is all that matters- but this build practiced a little can get you there fast and through the bad spawns in lonars
it's cool you think my build is inferior.. I know people are stuck in thier ways =] whatever works for you is all that matters- but this build practiced a little can get you there fast and through the bad spawns in lonars
Mustache Mayhem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistical miss
I just hate putting the maintained enchantments back on everytime ^_^and which order is better: mending - holy veil, or holy veil - mending (one has more energy leftover, the other protects from a shattered holy veil)
testing it now ^_^ I think I will stick with the energy..not sure tough.. haha miss you don't need any more help.. I'm sure you run this pro from what I've read
testing it now ^_^ I think I will stick with the energy..not sure tough.. haha miss you don't need any more help.. I'm sure you run this pro from what I've read
Rhuobhe
I'm not sure if anyone has pointed this out in previous posts, but I think it's worth mentioning the -2 stance/-2 enchanted shield. IMO, it's on the same level as a -2/-3 since holy veil will be up almost (if not) always and you'll be in a stance at least 50% of the time.
-2 stance / -2 enchanted is better than -2 stance / -2 hexed (which is listed) in my opinion.
-2 stance / -2 enchanted is better than -2 stance / -2 hexed (which is listed) in my opinion.
Me NoFat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustache Mayhem
yeah that's true fat to a point.. dunno about 4x the hex duration though- hate exaggerations..
it's cool you think my build is inferior.. I know people are stuck in thier ways =] whatever works for you is all that matters- but this build practiced a little can get you there fast and through the bad spawns in lonars Not trying to sound like an ass with the inferior tag. Maybe I am just too experianced with this run and am stuck in my ways. If I were once again new to the run and happened on your build first who knows what I would be preaching form my gwguru given podium. I should not have labled it inferior in any way and that is my mistake. Please accept my apology.
The truth of the matter is that until you get some experiance on the run every little advantage adds up. The top 2 killers in Lornars are #1 worms and #2 hexes. Your build may well be better for the worms with the extra damage reduction but as far as no hex goes I am just to stuck in my and cannot find a good reason to give up the hex remover.
it's cool you think my build is inferior.. I know people are stuck in thier ways =] whatever works for you is all that matters- but this build practiced a little can get you there fast and through the bad spawns in lonars Not trying to sound like an ass with the inferior tag. Maybe I am just too experianced with this run and am stuck in my ways. If I were once again new to the run and happened on your build first who knows what I would be preaching form my gwguru given podium. I should not have labled it inferior in any way and that is my mistake. Please accept my apology.
The truth of the matter is that until you get some experiance on the run every little advantage adds up. The top 2 killers in Lornars are #1 worms and #2 hexes. Your build may well be better for the worms with the extra damage reduction but as far as no hex goes I am just to stuck in my and cannot find a good reason to give up the hex remover.
Me NoFat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhuobhe
I'm not sure if anyone has pointed this out in previous posts, but I think it's worth mentioning the -2 stance/-2 enchanted shield. IMO, it's on the same level as a -2/-3 since holy veil will be up almost (if not) always and you'll be in a stance at least 50% of the time.
-2 stance / -2 enchanted is better than -2 stance / -2 hexed (which is listed) in my opinion. Your opinion is correct. I will fix the OP. Thanks for pointing it out.
-2 stance / -2 enchanted is better than -2 stance / -2 hexed (which is listed) in my opinion. Your opinion is correct. I will fix the OP. Thanks for pointing it out.
Mustache Mayhem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me NoFat
Not trying to sound like an ass with the inferior tag. Maybe I am just too experianced with this run and am stuck in my ways. If I were once again new to the run and happened on your build first who knows what I would be preaching form my gwguru given podium. I should not have labled it inferior in any way and that is my mistake. Please accept my apology.
The truth of the matter is that until you get some experiance on the run every little advantage adds up. The top 2 killers in Lornars are #1 worms and #2 hexes. Your build may well be better for the worms with the extra damage reduction but as far as no hex goes I am just to stuck in my and cannot find a good reason to give up the hex remover. ha np.. I definitely don't take offense on the net- just been helping people I know out run it over the weekend and came across this post.. hope more people will try it- it really does deal with the issues in this run.. hexes are'nt that big a deal with the build- it makes the run easier imo.. should go for a speed record or something this weekend- heard some guys saying the runs harder now too lol and it's always been the same.. just alot of people have low confidence and want to blame it on something - it's really a skill run =]
ah yeah forgot to add- stay away from chiblains or as I call it- chooblains! hehe
The truth of the matter is that until you get some experiance on the run every little advantage adds up. The top 2 killers in Lornars are #1 worms and #2 hexes. Your build may well be better for the worms with the extra damage reduction but as far as no hex goes I am just to stuck in my and cannot find a good reason to give up the hex remover. ha np.. I definitely don't take offense on the net- just been helping people I know out run it over the weekend and came across this post.. hope more people will try it- it really does deal with the issues in this run.. hexes are'nt that big a deal with the build- it makes the run easier imo.. should go for a speed record or something this weekend- heard some guys saying the runs harder now too lol and it's always been the same.. just alot of people have low confidence and want to blame it on something - it's really a skill run =]
ah yeah forgot to add- stay away from chiblains or as I call it- chooblains! hehe
Mistical miss
Yes, there is this very annoying grawl, walking lonely sometimes.
Normally you find him somewhere after the big group of grawls after the bridge, behind the troll cave where the worms pop up.
He tends to strip your enchantments when you are under attack of the worm while your balanced stance is down.
Then he poisons you, and forces you to put back your mending or die to the worm. Worm interrupts your mending, and you are stuck without energy...
I just hate that grawl chooblains! :P
Normally I get away with it tough.. its still a silly death if it happens..
Normally you find him somewhere after the big group of grawls after the bridge, behind the troll cave where the worms pop up.
He tends to strip your enchantments when you are under attack of the worm while your balanced stance is down.
Then he poisons you, and forces you to put back your mending or die to the worm. Worm interrupts your mending, and you are stuck without energy...
I just hate that grawl chooblains! :P
Normally I get away with it tough.. its still a silly death if it happens..
Mustache Mayhem
hehe yeah it is the loitering grawl on the path.. I've always ran around all those crones cause of it =] I'll make sure to look out for that
Minus Sign
Quote:
Mustache Mayhem I like your build, if only for one reason: its different from every other build I’ve ever used. That shows forward thinking, and that’s what makes it great. If people hadn’t started tinkering with Protective Spirit, 55 hp Monks would have been out of the loop when Anet nerfed Protective Bond. If Anet ever decided to nerf Holy Veil, we have a back up—right here in this forum—to swap out and keep Droks runners…running.
Sk8tborderx
I have just retired as a Droks runner. The time and effort for this run is simply not worth the money anymore. It takes up to 30 minutes just to get a full party and then 1 person usually leaves do to connection or refuses to pay.
Even with making 3k a person and the whole group stayed it would still take about an hour to fill the group and do the run. I can make 20k an hour minimum by soloing so this just is not worth it anymore.
Even with making 3k a person and the whole group stayed it would still take about an hour to fill the group and do the run. I can make 20k an hour minimum by soloing so this just is not worth it anymore.
Mustache Mayhem
ah thanks minus.. yeah sk8 over the weekend I was seein not many paying.. in factions it'll probably pick back up
MoNo
I just wanted to say nice guid i gave it ago yesterday 1st time and made it all the way ,it might have been luck so i tried it again invited a full group for tips and yes made it again not a hard run realy it has its times yes ,i've been run and seen the guys die over and over looked like a real pita so i never realy tried .
Good job guys!
Want to give thanks to Rhuobhe he is why i did the run.
Good job guys!
Want to give thanks to Rhuobhe he is why i did the run.
Mistical miss
I'll keep doing the run, just to show guildmembers how to do it, help them out. I do the runs cheap, get not much gold, but I don't need much gold, I like meeting the ppl.
Tnx for the compliments on the guide
Tnx for the compliments on the guide
Rhuobhe
Thanks Mono, told you the run was fun! After lornar's the rest is easy. Just make sure your DD spawn isnt so sucky and the rest is cake.
It's not great money unfortunatly; you can't charge what people like LBS were charging back in the beginning. It's a shame because it takes a good 30 minutes of your time. Still slightly more profitable in general than farming.
It's not great money unfortunatly; you can't charge what people like LBS were charging back in the beginning. It's a shame because it takes a good 30 minutes of your time. Still slightly more profitable in general than farming.
Rhuobhe
What is the going rate for a forge run nowadays anyway?
For the average joe, not someone who is "famous for running".
Seems like if you ask for 3k per head, it'll take forever to get a group.
What do you guys charge?
For the average joe, not someone who is "famous for running".
Seems like if you ask for 3k per head, it'll take forever to get a group.
What do you guys charge?
Mistical miss
I'm quiet famous for running in europe, I run for friends, and to teach guildies, I pick up ppl for 2-3K each depends on how many ppl there are, I let them pay in Rankor (all) and screen when they make the agreement to the payment. I don't ask them to show me money, but I will report to Anet if I get scammed.
This shows some trust in my customers which usually turns out pretty well. I've done this like 3 times a day lately, and have been scammed by only 1 person since.
I advertise like: [TAXI] running to Droknar's Forge for 2K (Pay the full 2K in Camp Rankor)
Where [TAXI] is my guild's tag ^_^
This shows some trust in my customers which usually turns out pretty well. I've done this like 3 times a day lately, and have been scammed by only 1 person since.
I advertise like: [TAXI] running to Droknar's Forge for 2K (Pay the full 2K in Camp Rankor)
Where [TAXI] is my guild's tag ^_^
Sk8tborderx
I would charge 3k a head. 10k for the run is seriously not worth my time when I can make 20-30k and hour soloing. I do the run for friends and guildies but that is it.
With the prices people are willing to pay anymore I don't find any run that profitable. The shiverpeaks tour used to get me 50k a head now there are guilds that run it for 10k. The Droks run used to get me 5k a head, now it is down to about 2k. The time it takes to fill the groups anymore because of all the runners out there makes soloing a faster source of money. (Most of the droks runners can't even make it 60-70% of the time).
With the prices people are willing to pay anymore I don't find any run that profitable. The shiverpeaks tour used to get me 50k a head now there are guilds that run it for 10k. The Droks run used to get me 5k a head, now it is down to about 2k. The time it takes to fill the groups anymore because of all the runners out there makes soloing a faster source of money. (Most of the droks runners can't even make it 60-70% of the time).
Me NoFat
I am not going to get into what LBS gets for a Droks run because we don't really price runs that way. Once you do please do not return to this post and complain about our prices. We play to the high end that doesn't have much time and want a 1st class no questions asked run. Our service is what it is. There are many posts that discuss our prices please go to one of them if you want to rant.
Most charge between 1.5 and 3K these days making the run not worth the effort if you ask me. I still run it to sharpen the skills and stay in good form. I also run friends. I have also run some of the people on this forum for free during the LBS Christmas party. It is fun to see people that remember that in game.
Most charge between 1.5 and 3K these days making the run not worth the effort if you ask me. I still run it to sharpen the skills and stay in good form. I also run friends. I have also run some of the people on this forum for free during the LBS Christmas party. It is fun to see people that remember that in game.
Sk8tborderx
Me NoFat - I was not in any way complaining about LBS prices for runs. I am complaining about all the runners that cannot make it most of the time driving the prices down for the good runners out there.
Me NoFat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx
Me NoFat - I was not in any way complaining about LBS prices for runs. I am complaining about all the runners that cannot make it most of the time driving the prices down for the good runners out there.
I know you weren't...no harm...no foul.
I just wanted to put that out there since my guild was brought into the discussion. I have seen too many rants about it. I just didn't want to see them here.
all good
I just wanted to put that out there since my guild was brought into the discussion. I have seen too many rants about it. I just didn't want to see them here.
all good