Six character slots confirmed

ppl need to realize that we don't have a problem with factions but we have a problem with not enough slots in general, the discussion of xtra slots started 9 months ago !! when there wasn't even a word over factions, now ppl just bring it up because they had in mind that they would get what they wanted when new chapter comes out.

Now we see that new ppl get 4 slots and we (the ppl who love the game with all their heart and want to buy every expansion just because we want to play with all professions) only get 2 extra slots.

sry but A.net has to start thinking more in keeping their members then trying to get new ones, if ppl aren't pleased with factions they won't be buying ch3 etc... and then guildwars will die... (as much as it hurts in my heart)

I would be so darn happy if we get an extra slot with collectors edition... that would make my day

I realize this, and have said as much. People shouldn't blame Factions for the original problem in Guild Wars.

These new people will still have less total slots than you... and 8 professions to choose from!

It's a little early to be predicting the death of Guild Wars. BTW, although Anet should try its best to keep old members, it's not subscription based. Theoretically, GW could survive with high turnover, as long as they got enough new peeps to replace the old ones. (But, to be clear, I don't think this is their plan! I agree with Loviatar that there must be some reason to limit the linked Factions to two slots. They wouldn't piss off people on purpose...)

I agree. Any way GW can get people more slots seems like a smart business move: through collector's editions, one-time charges, whatever.

I think there's a misconception I'm against more slots: To be clear, I'm not.

I know I could find uses for more slots. My purpose here is to discuss the reality of the situation, from my point of view, which is that the lack of additional slots will not make or break Factions. The new content is what will determine whether GW deserves my continued support or not.

While I fully acknowledge that to some this is a make or break deal, respectfully, I do not agree. Isn't that what forums are all about?

You forget that the building they are working requires utilities to be paid, you have programmers, Product developers, QA team, testers, technical writers, IT staff, artists, Taxes, SSI, benefiets, etc...then you have to figure that a portion goes to NC Soft to publish (note the pre order boxes are paid for by the retailers, they are given to the retailers and someone has to pay (i.e. NCSoft)for that $.30 cd and that $.20 DVD case plus pay for shipping) Then marketing (those magazine ads) it all adds up my friend.

I work for a bussiness software company, and it is more than just server costs.

You lost me dude. What does all that have to do with the 2 extra slots?

[QUOTE=SilentAssassin]
and then guildwars will die... (as much as it hurts in my heart)

QUOTE]

that is a quote from every group that has left GW and it is still growing

UAS or we go and GW will die

MORE LEVELS or we will go and GW will die

MORE UBER ITEMS or we will go and GW will die

MORE SLOTS or we will go and GW will die

next verse same as the first

they left and GW grew instead of dying.

bye for a bit (must have something to do........maybe some GW)

he was saying server costs were cheap, I was explaining there was more to Anet that server costs.

Yes, but, those other expenses do nothing to explain why Anet is only giving 2 slots with merging Factions, instead of 4.

Server expenses at least sounds like it's related to the issue, even if it doesn't actually add up.

No doubt, but you have failed to prove that adding a few slots per account will increase or cause more additional costs of a new buildings, new programmers, new artists... you get the idea.

If Factions gave 6 slots for newbies, and 4 slots for linkage, would that make everyone happy?

Mordakai, "Technically, they are NOT reducing our slots, they are expanding them by two. There's no way to currently get more than 6 slots on a single account."

I really want to see your reasoning. I buy factions and install it, I get four slots. I later buy Prophecies and install it (which you cannot deny came with four slots) because I liked what I had, and I only have six slots. Along the line two slots came up missing. 4+4=8.

Yes, yes, I do understand the argument.

But the whole basis of the argument is on false pretenses: That Anet intended to make the linked game equal in number of slots as the original.

I can't explain why Anet chooses to reduce the number of slots by linking, no one here really knows. I like Loviatar's idea that there is a good reason, they just can't tell us because it would put them at a competitive disadvantage. (Hey, it sounds good, even if it's a little unbelievable).

I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the idea of different numbers of slots for merging and installing stand-alone. I don't understand why there wasn't 6 slots to begin with.

But here our my assumptions (which could also be wrong!)

1. Anet doesn't want to intentionally piss off people for no good reason.
2. There must be some reason involved in the decision.

Now, I've been a little obssessed with this thread, so I think I've read every argument and counter argument out there. Here, IMO, are the most reasonable explanations:

1. Bad precedent. Anet doesn't want to put out 4 slots for expansion, b/c then people will expect 4 slots for every expansion.

Counter: Most people just want one slot per profession. They'd understand a temporary 4 slot expansion, and would not expect Chapter 3 to follow with 4 slots.

2. Balance. If Anet gives 4 slots to link Factions, what if someone misses Factions, and only buys future chapters? Will they have 2 less slots? Will giving 4 slots out now force Point 1 (4 slots forever?), so not to piss off future buyers?


3. Game Design. Anet never intented people to have permanent characters of every Prof. Maybe the PvE aspects were overlooked, and Anet assumed people would use PvE as a stepping stone to PvP.

Counter: Why limit people's choices? It's argued that the best PvP players use PvE characters (best equipment, ability to swap armor and multiple weapon slots). By limiting slots, isn't Anet actually putting people who focus on either PvP or PvE at a disadvantage?

4. Hidden cost. For some unknown reason, linking accounts cost more than two separate ones. This could be based on just an idea that more people will link than buy separate accounts, or there is some real expense in the linking of accounts that makes 4 slots prohibitively expensive.

Counter: People would gladly pay any extra cost to have linked slots for every Prof.
________________________________
I think that's most of the arguments that I remember actually being worth something.

Please feel free to add/revise/flame as warranted.

5. They hope that people will buy extra copies of the same game to get more slots.

Thanks, Mosch. Figures I would forget the most obvious one!

LOL!

Oh, guess I should add a counter:

Most people interested in multiple slots want Linked slots so they can have all skills and all primaries on one account.

[QUOTE=mqstout]Mordakai, "Technically, they are NOT reducing our slots, they are expanding them by two. There's no way to currently get more than 6 slots on a single account."

I dont know if you have any idea about programming
If I own GW then Anet has allocated certain amount of memory for the account on the server. Assume 2 mega.

Combine GW and GWF = 6 slots which means Anet only has to upgrade your original account allocated-memery to 3 mega on the server.

$50 for 2 mega
$50 for 1 mega SEE THE DIFFERENCE ..SIMPLE COMMON SENSE

Anet will definitely make a lot more money this way if people combine their accounts.....We have been given no other choice.

GW.........2 mega on the server 4 slots $50 We had paid for.******
GWF.......2 mega on the server 4 slots $50

GW+GWF....3 mega on the sever 6 slot and 0.5 mega for new contents
Your original allocated-memory for GW now can be removed and given to the GW+GWF account.

Anet now only has to maintain less amount of the memory on the server for the combined-accounts. REMEMBER WE HAD PAID FOR THE ORIGINAL ALREADY.*******

P.S. Why we have been given no other choice very very clever ,,,We will miss out some skills from the GWP if we dont combine them.
sorry for the long post but people just dont seem to understand so I am trying to make it clear.

P

Another remedy: Change policies to offer people 6 slots for the first instalment, whichever it is, and then adding 2 per chapter to a maximum of the total number of classes on the account. It would set a firm rule for the future, one that people would understand intuitively, even the more dense. Added benefit: people starting with GW:F will have a greater incentive to also grab GW:P.

I'm pretty dissapointed, was hoping for at least one slot for each profession, existing and new, as well as an open slot for pvp. I invest a lot of time and money into my existing characters and shiver every time I think of all the hard earned gw gold I'll lose that's invested in their armors and items, JUST IN CASE I want to play BOTH new professions as primary and have a pvp slot.... I still want to make a ranger primary to go with my necro, warrior and monk and mesmer primaries. PLUS I would like to try both assassin and ritualist. At the sound of this however, I will be forced to choose between either ranger, ritualist or assasin so I will be able to have the pvp slot I have suffered so long without, just because I only have 4 slots total now to play 4 out of 5 primary classes I really dig.


To get this "fabulous" value AN is trying to cram down my throat as they empty my wallet, I will have accept half-value and play both chapters seperate? What a load of crap. GG is out of touch and I would beg to say that the rest of the dev team is as well, if they think this is really acceptable to a lot of existing purchasers and devotees of the game.

Good thing NWN2 is coming out soon, looks like I'll be buying that instead. Least there, the economy isn't screwed up every time the dev's patch.

latest poll says you are out of touch and not them

Will you be buying Guild Wars Factions?

Yes, definitely!....................................... .....................1032
Most likely............................................ .......................293
If there are cookies in the box, I'm there!......................95


Undecided......................................... ...........................83


Probably not............................................... .................50
No way............................................... ....................... 29

# Votes:............................................ ...................... 1582

Most of us would complain less if (a) Factions installed stand-alone only had 2 slots andor (b) Factions costs noticibly less than the original game.

What I dont like the most is that I have to combine GWP and GWF to be able to access to all the skills available.

Give me all the skills then I will be OK to play GWF on it own w/o combination.

This is the main advantage of linking accounts. Duh. Why would any pvp-player buy both games if you could get all skills from just one?

look at it like this maybe they could of been like other mmo's and just release new play areas no new "builds" or slots to place those builds they could of given you the choice of 6 prof. and only alow you to have one and only one slot so chill all we get to play the gamne for free you dont like it dont buy it just stop complaning.

That's from the GWF FAQ. The emphasis is mine. Seriously, children, calm down.

Yes, this would be ideal... but how to implement this now?

Frankly, it seems more and more likely that Anet had this set up from the start.

We know that Guild Wars needs to continue to sell expansions to survive. In order to both keep old players, and attract new ones, they had to come up with a system that seemed fair. I know right now, it doesn't seem fair... but think of what would have happened if they initially released six slots, and then only 2 for linked accounts. I can see the complaints now: "We're paying $50 for 1/3 of the slots?!? GW is ripping us off."

Thus the 4 initial, 2 per expansion deal. I suspect this will be the standard from now on. It does 2 things:

1. New Players who have 8 professions with their initial purchase, but only 4 slots, will want to buy the original game to get more slots.

2. Repeat players will feel less screwed: they are getting 2 slots per expansion instead of 4 for the initial. If it went from 6 to 2, even more sticker shock.

But Anet did not count on players' desire to have all 8 professions.

This is what they should have done to maximize profits:

Chapter 1 has 6 slots if initial, or 4 bonus if bought later.

Each Chapter after that comes initially with 4 slots, or link for 2.

This way new players are encouraged to buy the Orginal Prophecy campaign (for 4 bonus slots), and older players don't feel so screwed.

But hindsight is 20/20. At this point, all I can see Anet doing is using extra slots to help sell collector's editions - at least, I hope that's their plan.

It would make me happy, yes.

There is still a problem.

Factions has 8 classes, 4 slots. They don't need to buy Prophecies since there is no content for Ass/Rit. If they buy Ch 3 and only get 2 more slots, 6 slots for 10 classes. Even worse than what we have now. They did not think this through.

There will always be full content for the core classes, but Chapter specific content for the 2 added classes. Making the added classes basically disposable. Unless they do plan to support all classes in each additional chapter, which would make for a huge load of work.

Have they given any indication as to support for Ass/Rit in future chapters?

That's an excellent question.

Maybe it would help if you all thought of it as 8 regular slots unlinked but 6 upgraded slots linked. Because that's really what you are doing to your 4 Prophecies slots, is upgrading them when you link the accounts.

Seriously, this whole argument is stupid right now because we don't know how much the GWF package will retail for! The price hasn't been officially announced.

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/260828.asp

Honestly, I think there wouldn't be any complaints if they just made an Expansion.

In other words, they should've just made Factions as an add-on only, charge around $30, and give us the two new characters, two slots, and the extra content. Then new players would have to buy Prophecies to play Factions, and original players of Prophecies would be content with just buying an add-on.

Oh well. I'll still buy it, but really, $50 for an expansion (as I see it) is a bit much.

And yeah, it will probably be $50, even if they haven't officially said anything.

Well if they made it as an expansion then it would screw up future players who need to buy a lot of games to get up to date. A counter to this would be having only the original game mandatory and the expansions optional, ie having the guildwars and guildwars expansion 3.

Of course. Games like The Sims do it quite successfully.

If GW was like this, it would turn off new players because of the immense startup cost (Me being a big sims player also) of the startup and then the NUMEROUS and neverending expansion packs. Which consequently causes a lot of expansion issues as well as backward compatibility between items/meshes etc.

If GWF was PURELY an expansion, i dont think anyone would be complaining that there would be only 2 slots because it would be priced as a expansion slot (like $30)

But being priced as a full game with the ability to act as both expansion and a standalone is making people bitey. >.>; Then again...the lack of monthly fee justifies the price o.o;

I'd like to hereby nominate Mordakai for the new Anet spokesperson, for doing such a 'fine' job trying to persuade us all that Anet is doing us a favour with giving us two whole slots to play with in the up and coming factions.

Someone has to argue with all of you.

The way Anet has decribed the situation, it looks like each chapter will always contain the six core professions from Prophecies, but will each have two new professions available in that particular chapter only. So, owning Factions will be the only way to create a primary Assassin and/or Ritualist. When Chapter Three is released, the Assassin and Ritualist cannot be created as primary characters, but there will be two new professions that you can make - let's say Thief and Ninja. Therefore, if you own Prophecies and Chapter Three only, you can make the six core professions and the Thief and the Ninja, but you will NOT be able to create the Assassin or Ritualist. If you own Chapter Two, but not Chapter Three, you can make the six core plus the A and RT, but not the Thief or Ninja. Each subseqent chapter will contain content that professions from all previous chapters can access, but you would not be able to create any of those professions that aren't directly included in a particular chapter.

This would make sense, as then each chapter as a standalone game would only have access to eight total professions, and have only four character slots available. As regards to the pricing issue, the fact that each chapter will be designed to be played as a stand alone game is pretty much the dead giveaway that each Chapter will be priced the same as all the others - @$50 in the US, and the equivalent for overseas. I think it will be highly doubtful that any type of discount will be made available for upgraders. I mentioned some time ago that Anet would justify the cost for upgrading on the fact that Factions contains as much, if not more content, that can be accesssed by new characters as well as established characters, than Prophecies contained.

I don't have a problem paying $50 for each chapter for the ability to create characters of each new profession and for the ability to bring all existing characters up to that point into the new chapter, but my beef is that not only are we paying for the ability to transfer characters from one chapter to the next, but we are still being limited in the total amount of content by not having enough character slots to create a character for each prime on top of that.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Seriously, you're linking to a retailer for proof of price? When ANet hasn't even set a price? That is seriously weak. The retailers have no idea. They're just slapping a price on the website so they can begin taking preorders. The price they list may be correct, may not. It's all speculation (which, incidentally, is apparently the whole purpose of this thread). I prefer to go off the official price, which has not yet been announced.

See my post immediately above yours for the answer to this problem. The fact that Anet has not yet officially announce the price doesn't mean we can't logicially figure out what the cost is going to be pretty easily.

The simple fact that each chapter will act as a stand alone game means that they will be priced accordingly. Then if one breaks down the cost of the game into the equivalent of a monthly fee, one can see that the cost is roughly half of the typical fee charged by most MMO's, therefore, there is not much chance of each chapter being priced lower than the current standard.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

OK, taking this argument to the logical conclusion:

If Chapter 10 comes out, it will have content for 24 Professions?

ie, new skills and equipment for all the previous Professions, plus the 2 included with chapter 10? (just to be clear, I realize Chapter 10 would only have 8 Profession included. I just talking about content for all the previous Professions, not the ability to create them)

That seems... crazy. But, why not? And if that is the case, people won't be complaining about more slots for new characters, they'll be complaining about more storage space for all their new weapons and armor!

(Hell, people already are complaining about storage, and Factions isn't even out yet!)

I fixed your post.

Anyway, I've said everything I'm going to say about this topic...at least until ANet gives official pricing. Until then, I'll just lurk among the posters (in this section, anyhow) at OMGWTFBBQ-Guild-Wars-Faction-Is-A-Ripoff-I-Want-My-Cake-And-Eat-It-Too-WAAAAH Guru...

Not necessarily. This is just my hypothetical based on what they have said thus far about the two new professions. Naturally, Factions must contain content that the six original professions can play through, as will each subsequent chapter. The question mark is whether they will continue to support each new profession for each future chapter. That will most likely be answered by the kind of support Prophecies has for the A's and Rt's.

We already know that we can create characters in Factions, and determine whether they start in the Prophecies campaign or the Factions campaign with linked accounts, but Anet didn't specifically state whether that option includes the A and Rt or not. I am just assuming it will and that they will update Prophecies one more time to include content designed for these characters (quests, item drops, merchant/crafter inventory).

I certainly would like to be able to bring any new professions to Tyria, and would like to do more than just have them run around clearing the map. And I would like to think that we would be able to bring the new professions each chapter to the next, but that certainly won't be a given. What I am pretty sure of is that we will only be able to create new professions in their specific chapter - which again seems logical to me. Hopefully Anet will break their wall of silence on many of this topics and concerns so that we can have some idea of what will be going on with the game in the future.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

PS:
So, in essence, what you are saying is that it is entirely possible that Anet will start selling future full content on-line games at 25 bucks a pop or less? Doubtful. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's making the space shuttle fly.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace