'kay, no one tell me 'wrong forum', because this IS about mesmers. Mesmer builds, specifically. Thinking for the future, if you will, before it becomes a problem.
Mesmers are supposed to be the 'counter-class'. People expect mesmers to shut down opponents. How are mesmers supposed to shut down Assassins?
E-Denial might work. The lead-off-dual-off chain usually takes up quite a bit of energy.
So how does one shut down an assassin?
Oh heck. Assassins. (Mesmer thread.)
Ninetail Trickster
General Typhus
Distortion HURTS.
Lady Lorwinia
all I can think of right now is empathy.
Assassins have to get off a chain of attacks to be useful.
If they have ss + empathy on them. I mean damn. One dead assassin very quickly.
Also. Crippling anguish and other crippling skills. An assassin can't attack if he can barely move.
That's all I can think of right now.
Assassins have to get off a chain of attacks to be useful.
If they have ss + empathy on them. I mean damn. One dead assassin very quickly.
Also. Crippling anguish and other crippling skills. An assassin can't attack if he can barely move.
That's all I can think of right now.
Inspirational Muse
Uh...I used a build today with Signet of Midnight and Plague Touch.
Needless to say, Assassins were the least of my worries.
Needless to say, Assassins were the least of my worries.
Vaga
Just kite away from them, Assasins are a relatively soft target that wouldn't want to overextend too much.
Cherng Butter
ineptitude + clumsiness + spirit of failure
assassins really cant dish out that much damage anyway, i always pwned them in RA today
assassins really cant dish out that much damage anyway, i always pwned them in RA today
Rayne Nightfyre
Ineptitude + Clumsiness alone are an Assassin killer combo. Together, they leave the foe half dead at least, and also blind the foe for a time. Put in a slowing spell, such as Kitah's Burden to make it even harder for the foe to escape alive. Assassins can dish out quite a bit of damage in a short period of time if given the opportunity to. So simply do not give them that opportunity.
Avarre
I kill them easily playing my anticaster 12v12 setup...
Diversion -> disable their lead attack, and GG THX BYE
Distortion -> you know what it does
Pound them down with wastrel's if you like... they don't hit that hard. If you can knock out a few skills with diversion they're weak, catch their shadow refuge with overload and you win.
Alot of what is above is more powerful, but I run anticaster, just saying you don't need to spec against them.
Diversion -> disable their lead attack, and GG THX BYE
Distortion -> you know what it does
Pound them down with wastrel's if you like... they don't hit that hard. If you can knock out a few skills with diversion they're weak, catch their shadow refuge with overload and you win.
Alot of what is above is more powerful, but I run anticaster, just saying you don't need to spec against them.
rii
......spirit shackles.
I am loosing a little bit of respect for the assassin every time i use this skill. The new assassins (even some of the better ones) totally nuke out their energy with some speed. (even the innate energy regen and so on isn't realy powerful enough to give them enough to work with)
Basically, all anti-melee currently available (apart from some like soothingimages) is twice as good against these squishies. The 60al doesnt help either, and its a good day in the Rii camp when they start using frenzy for ias.
I am loosing a little bit of respect for the assassin every time i use this skill. The new assassins (even some of the better ones) totally nuke out their energy with some speed. (even the innate energy regen and so on isn't realy powerful enough to give them enough to work with)
Basically, all anti-melee currently available (apart from some like soothingimages) is twice as good against these squishies. The 60al doesnt help either, and its a good day in the Rii camp when they start using frenzy for ias.
Minus Sign
Signet of Midnight+Empathy/Plague Touch and you've got 2 on the ropes... Assassins are just hyped up R/Mes for the most part with increased attack speed to supplement standing in the middle of the hotspot. Many Crippling skills may seem less effective because of teleportation, but they aren't. Assassins still have the same mellee issues that Warriors do (barring a few skills) and their hexes, while nice, aren't the end all be all of shutdown. Drain Enchantment should rape most Recall builds by forcing them to burn it when they don't want to. From a healer's standpoint, i can tell you that most tele-heavy PvE groups get themselves killed popping out of my spell cast range (and then staying there to fight).
What worries me is the type of support role Anet seems to be assigning to Mesmers. Hex removal specifically. And the no attribute Elite thing was nice, but its getting old fast. They seem to make a habit of giving the mesmer class great skills that have no detrimental effect to other proffessions using them. Practice, tinkerings and time will tell the tale I suppose, but I fear for the future of the offensive mesmer.
What worries me is the type of support role Anet seems to be assigning to Mesmers. Hex removal specifically. And the no attribute Elite thing was nice, but its getting old fast. They seem to make a habit of giving the mesmer class great skills that have no detrimental effect to other proffessions using them. Practice, tinkerings and time will tell the tale I suppose, but I fear for the future of the offensive mesmer.
Avarre
Arcane Langour versus boonprots
Migrane and Power Return for massive interrupt spam
Overload and Powerspike for a 200 damage interrupt combo, coupled with Stolen Speed for faster cast.
The offensive mesmer looks just fine from over here...
Migrane and Power Return for massive interrupt spam
Overload and Powerspike for a 200 damage interrupt combo, coupled with Stolen Speed for faster cast.
The offensive mesmer looks just fine from over here...
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
Arcane Langour versus boonprots
Migrane and Power Return for massive interrupt spam
Overload and Powerspike for a 200 damage interrupt combo, coupled with Stolen Speed for faster cast.
The offensive mesmer looks just fine from over here... I agree.
And continuing with the discussion...
An assasin without any energy is like a turtle on its back.
Migrane and Power Return for massive interrupt spam
Overload and Powerspike for a 200 damage interrupt combo, coupled with Stolen Speed for faster cast.
The offensive mesmer looks just fine from over here... I agree.
And continuing with the discussion...
An assasin without any energy is like a turtle on its back.
Francis Demeules
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
I agree.
And continuing with the discussion...
An assasin without any energy is like a turtle on its back. An assassin without energy is a dead assassin for me. I generally use Sig of Midnight around build or, like others said, Ineptitude+Clumsiness.
And continuing with the discussion...
An assasin without any energy is like a turtle on its back. An assassin without energy is a dead assassin for me. I generally use Sig of Midnight around build or, like others said, Ineptitude+Clumsiness.
Leon_Ux-ixen
I tried to mess with the preview but the current comps. at my school couldn't handle it. But needless to say an A/Me took care fo alot of enmeies. An A/Me can counter a mesmer with the right spell combination makeing them an easy kill. So I can easily see those two proffesion fighting one another.
Dragannia
The reason Assassins are getting owned currently is because many of them are just prebuilts. Which suck. Assassin's strengths lie in conditions like Dazed, which will no doubt own any spellcaster. Still, a Mesmer with Spirit Shackles will take care of an assassin quite easily, hence the need for hex removal.
Sayshina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragannia
The reason Assassins are getting owned currently is because many of them are just prebuilts. Which suck. Assassin's strengths lie in conditions like Dazed, which will no doubt own any spellcaster. Still, a Mesmer with Spirit Shackles will take care of an assassin quite easily, hence the need for hex removal.
Very much true. Mobius is what they're all using as their elite, and I havn't seen anyone with Temple yet. I was running a R/A hoping to find out where to cap it, and gave up. The A also needs the Zealous mod desperatly, which means E-denial works that much better against him.
I only see the Asn as a prob if they get in Temple quickly, most likely with a tele. Mind you, once they have all those conditions on you, with the right support, you're in serious trouble.
They're faster than a War, in that they don't need adren and can do their thing from the start, but they had better accomplish their mission within 4 or 5 seconds or their dead.
What works against them? E-denial, enchant removal, blind, anything like SS, degen, and simple keeping them at a distance. Honestly, I don't understand the worry. I'm nearly positive the only real threat from the entire Asn line is some sort of Ranger spike using the tele skills to jump in, spike, and jump back out of harms way. And even that seems like a pretty fragile combo.
I only see the Asn as a prob if they get in Temple quickly, most likely with a tele. Mind you, once they have all those conditions on you, with the right support, you're in serious trouble.
They're faster than a War, in that they don't need adren and can do their thing from the start, but they had better accomplish their mission within 4 or 5 seconds or their dead.
What works against them? E-denial, enchant removal, blind, anything like SS, degen, and simple keeping them at a distance. Honestly, I don't understand the worry. I'm nearly positive the only real threat from the entire Asn line is some sort of Ranger spike using the tele skills to jump in, spike, and jump back out of harms way. And even that seems like a pretty fragile combo.
Ninetail Trickster
Wow. That was quick. Thanks for the responses... can't believe I didn't think of Clumsiness and Ineptitude. >_<
remmeh
empathy
sympathetic visage
spirit shackles
distortion + spirit of failure
sympathetic visage
spirit shackles
distortion + spirit of failure
Francis Demeules
Quote:
Originally Posted by remmeh
empathy
sympathetic visage
spirit shackles
distortion + spirit of failure you miss the brother of spirit shackle.... mind wrack
sympathetic visage
spirit shackles
distortion + spirit of failure you miss the brother of spirit shackle.... mind wrack
Nikki Moonlight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayshina
Very much true. Mobius is what they're all using as their elite, and I havn't seen anyone with Temple yet. I was running a R/A hoping to find out where to cap it, and gave up. The A also needs the Zealous mod desperatly, which means E-denial works that much better against him.
I only see the Asn as a prob if they get in Temple quickly, most likely with a tele. Mind you, once they have all those conditions on you, with the right support, you're in serious trouble.
They're faster than a War, in that they don't need adren and can do their thing from the start, but they had better accomplish their mission within 4 or 5 seconds or their dead. I used a build that i saw an EaSy member use the previous preview event...it was R/A with zealous daggers so energy wasn't a problem, and then you do jagged strike->temple strike->horns of the ox-> falling spider->twisting fangs...whilst under tigers fury, meaning whole combo takes about 7 seconds, and i only fought one monk that survived the whole combo..it was my faction farming extravaganza weekend
I only see the Asn as a prob if they get in Temple quickly, most likely with a tele. Mind you, once they have all those conditions on you, with the right support, you're in serious trouble.
They're faster than a War, in that they don't need adren and can do their thing from the start, but they had better accomplish their mission within 4 or 5 seconds or their dead. I used a build that i saw an EaSy member use the previous preview event...it was R/A with zealous daggers so energy wasn't a problem, and then you do jagged strike->temple strike->horns of the ox-> falling spider->twisting fangs...whilst under tigers fury, meaning whole combo takes about 7 seconds, and i only fought one monk that survived the whole combo..it was my faction farming extravaganza weekend
Joh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayshina
They're faster than a War, in that they don't need adren and can do their thing from the start, but they had better accomplish their mission within 4 or 5 seconds or their dead.
That's the true beauty of Assassins. All those teleports are awesome. Teleport in, do your thing, teleport out, recharge, start over. 
I'll sure remake my A/Me when Factions is released.
I'll sure remake my A/Me when Factions is released.
Francis Demeules
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Weeper
I used a build that i saw an EaSy member use the previous preview event...it was R/A with zealous daggers so energy wasn't a problem, and then you do jagged strike->temple strike->horns of the ox-> falling spider->twisting fangs...whilst under tigers fury, meaning whole combo takes about 7 seconds, and i only fought one monk that survived the whole combo..it was my faction farming extravaganza weekend
Sound like the pre builds Fangs of Melandru. This pre build is good against 1 vs 1 because Horn of the ox works only if the foe have no of his/her allies adjacant.
unholy guardian
spirit shackles plus mind wrack would get them ko'ed because by the time they knew what hit them they would have launched probly 10 slashes
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by unholy guardian
spirit shackles plus mind wrack would get them ko'ed because by the time they knew what hit them they would have launched probly 10 slashes
Ranger/Assasin means no hex removal as well. They'd have to depend on killing you in one pass through of the skills.
Francis Demeules
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
Ranger/Assasin means no hex removal as well. They'd have to depend on killing you in one pass through of the skills.
But there a problem about hex. In assassin skills, there one which it works like Spellbreaker and Obsidian Flesh. So we must watch out about this skill. In any case, Random Arena, IW Build or Blackout around build.
Ju_Smurph
Empathy...
Empathy...
Empathy... Most assassins are so gung ho about getting their combo off they got absoultly shreaded by this forgetton skill. You could ineptitude + clumsiness spike them as well...
Assassins are the least of a mesmers problems.
Empathy...
Empathy... Most assassins are so gung ho about getting their combo off they got absoultly shreaded by this forgetton skill. You could ineptitude + clumsiness spike them as well...
Assassins are the least of a mesmers problems.
Francis Demeules
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ju_Smurph
Empathy...
Empathy...
Empathy... Most assassins are so gung ho about getting their combo off they got absoultly shreaded by this forgetton skill. You could ineptitude + clumsiness spike them as well...
Assassins are the least of a mesmers problems. Easier said than done when they have that spellbreaker spell on them. This Elite will be a problem for mesmers.
Empathy...
Empathy... Most assassins are so gung ho about getting their combo off they got absoultly shreaded by this forgetton skill. You could ineptitude + clumsiness spike them as well...
Assassins are the least of a mesmers problems. Easier said than done when they have that spellbreaker spell on them. This Elite will be a problem for mesmers.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Demeules
It is Elite, which means they'll have to drop one of their elite attacks of nastiness. I don't see many KILL 'EM ALL type players playing defensively with an Assassin... But it is a skill we need to watch for.
Quote:
True, Distortion can mess up an Assassin, but I think we can expect to see the following skills being used in anticipation of facing Distortion:|
Originally Posted by Ju_Smurph
Empathy...
Empathy... Empathy... Most assassins are so gung ho about getting their combo off they got absoultly shreaded by this forgetton skill. You could ineptitude + clumsiness spike them as well... Assassins are the least of a mesmers problems. How did we miss that one?
Siren
I saw a mention of Moebius Strike, but it's certainly not a skill to be taken lightly. It's basically the Assassin equivalent of Oath Shot, except the target just needs to be below 50% health. Provided the Assassin knows what they're doing, there's no problem at all with letting Diversion take the lead attack. It's entirely possible to pack two lead attacks in the skill bar...one the throwaway, perhaps, and the other your main one.
But even then, if the Assassin can get through a combo like...Unsuspecting Strike-->Jagged Strike-->Fox Fangs-->Twisting Fangs-->Moebius Strike, the probability of a skill recharge happening is extraordinarily high, barring no block stances, enchantments, or Blindness. After a combo like that, with even minor damage support from a team mate, the target will very likely be Bleeding, Deep Wounded, and near-death. Under 50% health? If not, then I'm impressed. The Mesmer counter to Assassins is identical to the Mesmer counter to Warriors: Inept/Clumsiness, Blind, Spirit of Failure, etc. Diversion doesn't really matter, unless you catch Moebius Strike with it. But even then, with Diversion's 6-second duration? The Assassin doesn't have to care. They have the luxury of waiting out those 6 seconds. Their regular attacks do plenty of damage in the mean-time. lol
Avarre
Assassin regular attacks are like being tickled
Originally Posted by Francis Demeules
 A good assassin will manage to wriggle out of diversion, but spamming it with wastrel's is going to hurt. I've never been on the receiving end of a full assassin combo (inflicted a few though during the pvp preview ages ago), because it's so painfully easy to flip on distortion and kite.Quote: Easier said than done when they have that spellbreaker spell on them. This Elite will be a problem for mesmers.
You're referring to some assassin skill I haven't learned right (if so, please mention the name)? Not spellbreaker (5 seconds gogo) itself?
LightningHell
There's a skill in Shadow Arts that allow the user to be immune to enemy spells and attacks for 5...17 seconds, but be reduced to 5...41 health when it ends. Has a hefty 60-recharge. Don't ask me why I can recite every skill from every profession that's not Factions Core Professions...I just can.
Avarre
I am lack of discipline. I shall not regain my honor until I know all the factions skills.
But anyway... just interrupt that I can imagine complicate being run for all the new signets (like boon sig), so whack that skill if they try it. Or simply tank with distortion, and ready your killing blow for when it ends..
LightningHell
By the way, the name of it is "Shadow Form". And make sure your browser doesn't lag like mine does, cuz it's 1 second cast.
Francis Demeules
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
You're referring to some assassin skill I haven't learned right (if so, please mention the name)? Not spellbreaker (5 seconds gogo) itself?
Just to inform correctly for AvarreShadow Form (E) Elite enchantment spell For 5...17 seconds, all hostile spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss. When Shadow Form ends, you lose all but 5...41 Health. cost: 5 energy | recharge: 60 second(s) | activate: 1 second(s) Of course the recharge is a pain for them. For this I thought Shame. Not because he fails the spell, its because you steal his energy Anyway, no every assassins will have this skill on his/her slot. You can kill a warrior, then you can kill as assassin.
Avarre
Thanks LH and FD.
Originally Posted by Ju_Smurph
Quote: Empathy...
Empathy... Empathy... Most assassins are so gung ho about getting their combo off they got absoultly shreaded by this forgetton skill. It should trigger on a double-attack twice, right?  Hooray, my favorite nonelite shall have wrought more devastation!Though in the 12v12s I've done so far, diversion, wastrels, and distortion has been enough to kill every assassin I've fought. I guess it's more because of the player quality than the weaknesses of the class.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Demeules
Just to inform correctly for Avarre
When Shadow Form ends, you lose all but 5...41 Health. Wow...Wrastles worry would worry them overly much here! Especially if they just used all their skills. 
Francis Demeules
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
Thanks LH and FD.
It should trigger on a double-attack twice, right? Hooray, my favorite nonelite shall have wrought more devastation!Though in the 12v12s I've done so far, diversion, wastrels, and distortion has been enough to kill every assassin I've fought. I guess it's more because of the player quality than the weaknesses of the class. I smell Empathy and Spiteful Spirit spam in the air. rii
In terms of elites, i think asssasin have potential to be the new sword... elites arent required,... although they have a fair few good ones. Perhaps charge! assassin/warriors -.- As a quick example:
Assassin/Warrior Critical Strikes: 8+1 Dagger Mastery: 12+4 Tactics: 10 Charge! [e] Fear me! Twisting Fangs Resurrection Signet Leaping Mantis Sting Jungle Strike Horns of the Ox Falling Spider
Siren
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
A good assassin will manage to wriggle out of diversion, but spamming it with wastrel's is going to hurt. I've never been on the receiving end of a full assassin combo (inflicted a few though during the pvp preview ages ago), because it's so painfully easy to flip on distortion and kite. |
Warrior:
Wild Blow (we already see a few A/W builds going around)
Assassin:
Wild Strike - Dagger Mastery (though I think this should be moved to a Lead Attack...makes more sense that way)
Unseen Fury - Shadow Arts (not a bad duration, though it's dependent upon a condition)
There are other combinations I could see, as well. Even something as simple as a really fast, spammable lead attack like Jagged Strike-->Wild Strike. There are ways around Distortion, methinks. You could even go Necro secondary (or bring a Necro buddy along) to use Rigor Mortis.
LightningHell
*CoughcoughcoughKITEcoughcoughcough*