Game getting too easy. . .

No opinion is really alike and you can't please everybody.

One thing is for sure; they are really keeping their promise of a game that rewards real skill over hours played and hoarding of items, powers and gold. The developers said so time and again ever since the beginning so if the game is not fun anymore because you can't or is not worth to do any of that to an effective end any longer, that's your own fault for ignoring the developer's interviews or even the information included on the game box because this clearly is not the kind of game you would enjoy.

Skill is not obliterating every other aspect of your life just so you have it all, you capture it all and you unlock it all. Skill is not doing 17 Infusion runs just so you can have your head gear and all of your 4 sets of 15k armors that you bought after a 1000 hours of grinding infused. Skill is not having 100000000000 experience points since XP is fairly easy to come by in this game. Skill most definitely is not farming because if anything, that only means that either you have or you found a way to have time enough to spend killing 1000000000000 monsters that you already knew you would kill to begin with.

If anyone thinks that that is fun, that's fine by me but that is not skill at all. In this game, skill is to be able to tweak your character in a way that will allow you to finish a mission in PvE or be more effective in PvP. Skill is also to be a competent player regardless of anything else.

As some few examples, skill is finally being able to survive as a Monk in PvP even though you know that there will be 2-3 characters (if not more) coming after you because you came up with the right set of skills and equipment. Skill is managing to kill your opponents and being able to protect your party members as a warrior. Skill is knowing when and even if you should use your skills at a given circumstance. Skill is being able to improvise even though you didn't plan on bringing a skill you need. Skill is being able to make do with the skills and equipment you have because you had not time to spend capturing all the elite skills available to your profession and unlocking any uber equipment.

Those are only a few examples and forgive me if I didn’t mention the other professions.

This is my view and I am sticking to it. People can complain about my post all they like but the more someone complains, the more I think that this person didn't understand what this game is really all about when you went to the retailer.

And in case anyone is still wondering, let me say it. Yes, I like the changes in general.

P.S. 4000xp is not the most you can get as a reward. If I am not mistaken, you can get 5000xp and 15 attribute points for that Heroes Quest you get at Droknar's Forge (I think this is the name of that place) and that quest is not half as hard and half as long as Villainy.

Its people like you who help humanity by "smoking dope" and being lazy. I could care less about someone who had the patience to scan hundreds of files and produced the same results a mindless program did. If he did it for fun, its great. If he tried to be efficient: He is a failure at life, and someone who is holding humanity back. He may be - unlike you - rich though, because he has rich parents

They didn't axe farming because people were using bots... They did it because it's a worthless time sink whether you're botting or not and it has no place in anything that presumes to be a game.

I think when you create a new character they should give you a Max dmg weapon and a superior rune....it'll make the game easier

How about just unlocking them for PvP characters to begin with...

That sums up everything your trying to say.
You claim to be a shining beacon of humanity (you created something that can allow you to spend more time on things you enjoy instead of things you consider painful) and pretend to be ashamed of it.

The problem is, all those "hard working individuals" who hold humanity back arent ashamed of themselves
Maybe one day you will understand that you wont get better if you repeat a painfull task a hundred times. You get better if you find a way around it and make it redundant in the first place.


Exactly. It does not have its place in GW, like fishing has no place in Soccer. That does not mean that fishing or soccer have to be better then each other.

I don't pretend to be ashamed of anything....as children we make mistakes...if we don't realize those mistakes didn't benefit us we're going to remain children. Cheating on high school term papers didn't benefit me....it got the work done but it didn't make me any smarter.

I played numerous sports in high school...at varsity levels. and was an All American Football running back....the countless hours of hard work and pain I put into football was worth it....it made me a better player. begging the creators of the game relentlessly to make the game easier isn't going to make you better.....it's just going to make the game easier. Repeating a painfull task a hundred times DOES make you better....that's precisely what practice is.

You know it seems to me that no matter what changes will come, people will just whine and complain. It is either too much gring, or too little grind, or it is too hard, or too easy, or to w/e. ANet should just have 5 games:

Guild Wars: "The PVP unlocked Edition"
Guild Wars: "The Mass Grind Edition"
Guild Wars: "The 0 grind Edition"
Guild Wars: "The PvE Focused Edition"
Guild Wars: "The Original Edition"

That way we would all be happy.

You know the infusion change, THANK YOU!!!! It took our group 7 runs to get it done... once. And we almost didnt make it O_O 1 successful Run is sufficient.... I honestly dont want to waste a weekend doing 350000 runs... only to do it again later when I get new armor. Please explain to me how... RUNNING makes me better o.O Honestly, I just flipped on the tv, clicked on my ally, and kept hitting space every few seconds... maybe sometimes cast a spell to heal... not much growth there :/

Rune Seller: So? Big deal? We have a dye seller, a materials seller... only natural to have a runes seller? It will help drive prices down (Why pay X for a rune when the seller sells it for Y.... so the person will have to sell it at less than X ).Plus it is what you unlocked(or so I read... maybe Im wrong), which is great... I've been searching without end for another blood rune Spending 60000000000 hrs searching for the rune::: Thsi makes you better.... how? I'd rather spend 1/4th of that time in the arena.

Signet of Capture? Ooooo scary.... now anyone who is capable of getting to the boss, killing the boss, and living through it can have the skill :O GOD FORBID ANYONE WITH THE ABILITY TO DO THIS SHOULD HAVE IT!!!!!! We might actually have skilled people who dont have the time to do the Faucet of Darkness 80x until the sig finally appears.... having the sig!!! I like it

I say we all just be quiet, keep playing, and focus on what is important:

-New Locations
-AN AUCTION HALL!!!!!


~prime

But PvE players like to whine about subjects that really have no impact on them

LMFAO YES!

I like those ideas...

I am mainly PvE and I think that if there is the option to create a character for PvP only, why make the people who only wants to play PvP, play PvE? That ony makes for players with a very poor attitude in PvE just because they need to unlock something for what they really want. That's something Í don't understand but nevermind. better not get sarted.

all they'd really have to do is stop trolling the message forums for people complaining about what they don't like and then immediately fixing it. Fix what's wrong with the game...not what people find the time to complain about. I don't expect the game to change back to the way it was...nor would i have any respect for a company that would do it...I'm just stating my malcontent with what this patch has done to the game.


look at the updates page......they're updating every third day for christ sake. This isn't beta anymore....stop making every effort to make everyone happy. Live Production games should not be updating every third day fixing a bug some jack dick didn't like about the game.

ROFL.

If you indeed wrote the program, you are smarter then your pathetic teachers, and probably smarter then most humans on earth. You dont need school. Your teachers do need to be thought by you. Our universities dont produce enough of the likes of you. You could do it in school. Now you waste your time to do "research" instead of writing a program that could do the research to cure cancer.

Hard, painful work will make you better doing this work. What are you going to do if someone makes it meaningless? (Your riding from NY to LA on horseback, no?)

\applause

I can see how some people who don't have a lot of time like the game getting easier. However, why does that have to come at the expense of those who LIKE to be rewarded for their gameplay? Since I've picked up the game three weeks ago, we've now seen three patches that made things "easier". Rebalanced areas. Lowered a boss monster from lvl 26 to 14 (twice, IIRC).
at this rate, you'll launch GW in two months and it will proclaim YOU ARE TEH WINNER!!111!one!1 and shutdown.

Can we stop with the "making it easier" stuff, please? Most gamers I know enjoy a little challenge every now and then.

Creston

Alas you may be right, but WHY the HELL would anyone want to be a master of the infusion run??????
The Football comparions doesn't fit, you got good at football, the pitch doesn't change, the game rules are fixed and the majority of stratergies are know, in GW the pitch does change, and so do the rules from area to area. Admittedly you do have to put the hours in to get good, but the hours to get good at PvP have to be spent in PvP not PvE. I know this and I don't even PvP. As for PvE once you know what spawns in an area it is easy to adjust skills then run through it, 1-2 attempts, but re runs of the same area is not going to improve your overall skill, just how good you are at that area.
Actually having you have to change areas and skills and not farm the same areas is more likely to improve your skills.
If its too easy, go out with a smaller party, do the areas before you ascend rather than after (kryta).
The game is supposed to be fun, If you want it harder, play the entire game with Henchmen and have one single rule. If you die delete character as it is dead and start again.

I love how the OP doesn't have the stones to post again.

See what happens when you make broad statements you can't back up?

I knew enough about computers and how search engines worked to manipulate them for my usage...that doesn't make me smarter than my teachers...realizing I missed out on a valuable learning experience makes me smarter than I used to be.

I've used the report post functon on this thread at least once under that basis. To be honest, im suprised its still open.

EDIT:: actually, it may have been another dengenerated thread, im not sure anymore. It's sad to see 3 or 4 patch threads and watch almost all of them degenerate to baseless trolling and fighting.

Apparently the true competition in the game is not to hold the hall of heroes, not to be at the top of the ladder. It is between PvP only players and Grind-lovers about who can be the most annoying whiners.

Grind lovers.... nice, real mature.....

How bout RPG lovers vs. FPS lovers LOL

That’s really what it is, no self respecting RPG lover worth his salt would want everything handed to him, and no self respecting FPS player would expect to have to earn it.

I agree with everything here. The first couple of times I played PvP I received some serious trashing because I was used to PvE and I found out that builds that worked for PvE don't work for PvP and vice-versa.

It's also true that nothing beats a really good party but sometimes it's just easier to get it done with henchmen...

Not this stupid crap again.

Grinding through hordes of brain-dead cattle is not a challenge. It does not require strategy, and it does not require skill. A chimp with a half hour of training could do it. A "challenge" is defined as a test of your abilities or resources in a demanding, stimulating undertaking. Elite skill runs do not fit any part of that definition, because they are only a test of how much time you are willing to throw away for that elite.

"Earn it", hah. Is that what you call it when a dog waits under the table for hours until someone throws him a scrap?

What more could school possibly teach you? To obey?
Its getting pointless. Stop this "Blood. pain. Strength" Nonsense and cure cancer please. I dont care wether you "earned" it, and i doubt anyone affected would care.

Its sad when people think that intelligence is memorizing a lexicon.

You can learn pvp by doing pvp. If you try to counter them, you will lose. because they are not stupid, they KNOW your countering them. You need to outsmart them. This, repetition wont teach you. You outsmarted school ... and failed to learn the lesson

[Note that the praise is based on your virtual claims. i dont care wether they are true at all]

This patch, no doubt, does make the game easier. no big deal, I still enjoy it. Those people complaining before the patch where all the pvp leet kids who had to have all their skills NOW. Not in 2 days, not in 2 missions, but NOW. And this was the response to them. Im married with a house and full time job but running around capture signets wasnt that hard or time consuming. Doing 5 infusion runs wasnt that hard either. And it didnt take that long. I did 4 in one night of only playing for a few hours. If it was hard for you, you just suck.

you shouldn't be playing guild wars....you should be playing Counter Strike or Unreal.

GW is an RPG....you're supposed to be rewarded for building up your character. If you want to test your skill go play CS.

I love RPGS, and if you ever put me, or any of the great games in this genre, even close to the word "grind", then the wrath of "random deity" shall strike thee down!

Btw, i do think that the "Grind Wars" are more enjoying atm... until they fix the game, that is

No that discribes most of the leet PvP gods we have around here when it comes to getting elite skills.

How is it "earning" anything to do runs over and over. If I can demolish an area once solo I can do it 100 times. That's not "earning" anything, that's just wasting my time. Getting things as reward for finishing new areas, unlocking things as a result of accomplishment is fine. Being forced to "earn" your runes by doing crap over and over is something only a grinder would love.

Have you ever considered anger management? Or is the mere NOTION that *gasp*, not everyone shares your opinion really that difficult to comprehend to you?
Btw, how's your Internet connection from china, since you obviously have never heard of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Opinion?
Oh, and I'm STILL waiting for you to show me where I said I loved grinding. Kinda hard when people ask you to prove something, isn't it?

Creston

Edit : Btw, let me throw some suggestions in here to fix this Pve vs PvP dilemma. I see a lot of people already mentioning the "unlock all skills" option, so apparently that's been going around for quite awhile, and is not considered a valid option. (In my opinion, if you're hardcore PvP, how ELSE would you ever have a fair match, unless both sides have exactly the same skills?)
So how about being able to unlock skills based on the amount of wins / fame / rank you have?
gain a new rank (not quite sure how that goes up), you can unlock five more skills / weapons / runes, whatever.

Since I saw Anet talking about working to improve matchups between opponents (so that some uber PvP guild with zero losses doesn't take on a newbie guild, I assume), why not extend that further, and have teams with the same rank (give or take 2 or so) battle each other. That way you can be fairly certain that you have approximately the same level of power / items etc, since the game seems well balanced between classes. That way, the PvPers don't have to grind (which I can understand that they say they have to do it now), they can earn more skills by actually being succesful in PvP. Wouldn't that be a much better option?
How many of the hardcore PvP crowd even ENJOY the PvE part, anyways?

Such a system would also stop Anet from making PvE changes (to the detriment of the PvE focused players) to benefit the PvP players.

I still don't quite understand why they ever thought it was a great idea to connect the two in such a fashion anyways. It's like playing a multiplayer game, but you only get weapons if you've gotten to them in single player?


Does anyone have some constructive opinions on that?

Enduring the grind is the challenge. Sad, so sad.

Learn to be civil. I've played far more PvE than I have PvP at this point, and while I'm enjoying it, I'm disgusted with the attitude of PvErs who think they're some sort of higher life form when compared to PvP players, who apparently do nothing but drool incessantly as they furiously hammer the fire weapon command.

Believe it or not, and this may come as a shock to you, PvP players do not want easier unlocking of skills and runes so they can make teh Ubar p0wnzer of worlds. They want a competitive balance. Right now, what gear you have available can and does affect how you stack up in PvP. If Joe Air Elementalist has a Superior Air Rune and Steve Air Elementalist doesn't, then guess what? Steve is at a disadvantage against Joe if their two teams ever meet in combat, as Joe's abilities are now more damaging and thereby more effective, and no matter how good a player Steve is, barring the fact that Joe is an idiot, he cannot make up this numerical difference.

Then again, if Joe and Steve both have access to ability to maximize their numerical potential, then the ONLY thing that separates them is pure SKILL.
Personally, its a bit more rewarding to say you won because you're good at what you do, rather than you won because you happened to have a better rune/weapon mod/monkey defibulator than your opponent did.

In short, PvP players don't want everything handed to them. They want a fair competition, where skill (both at playing and building chars) is the deciding factor, not item.

Actually, this game is supposed to be about skill, it's always been advertised as such. Reward for building your character fits most MMO's out there, but this one was never really part of that catagory. This is partly why the lv cap is 20.

Well I can really see what a pillar of mental acumen you are, what with you repeating the same invalid rhetoric into infinity, waiting for it to be true.

And here's the kicker. You've been playing this game for who knows how many weeks and it still hasn't hit you: The game's about skill. That's the test. That's the challenge. Not how many hours you have spent playing whack-a-mole.

You said something that is true and made sense, therefor you lost the thread

lol. I'm just gonna leave this one alone.

ofcourse the game is about skill....but if all you wanted was skill and skill alone why did you pick an RPG? why didn't you pick a game where the playing field was forced even...you're supposed to build your character..that's what an RPG is that's what RPG players do. The 'grind' is something you have to deal with...not that I see how this patch fixes anything. making the drops less frequent just makes it harder to get anything. therefore increasing the 'grind'.....like I said you're playing the wrong game...you're playing the wrong type of game...and so is anyone else that complains about having to do some 'grind'

Please, yes. Because obviously you have no answer.

Creston

Role playing games are by definition a “grind”. If you want to blame someone for it blame gygax for designing D&D the way he did.
A, you start at first level
B, you go out and kill monsters
C, you gain levels for killing monsters and get to buy better stuff with their loot
D, you go out and kill stronger monsters
E, rinse and repeat

The story is very is very important in RPGs but it is not everything, a sense of accomplishment is just as important and of growth of your character from one thing to another. It is a keystone to every RPG ever designed. GW is moving away from that and catering to the instant gratification crowd. Even if that sense of accomplishment is an illusion(and I’m not saying its not) when you shatter it by making all the work just a waste of time because you can reproduce it in a few minutes in the newbie town and of course your going to have jaded players. I’m not jaded, I’ve said before, I got my moneys worth but I understand people who are.

No, actually, I'm quite sure I'm playing the right game. At least, I was in beta. The 'grind' was something introduced afterwards, I guess to appeal to all people who couldn't measure up in PvP and needed a watered-down activity where they punch out robots and get rewarded for it.

My definition of "building a character" seems to differ from yours. See, I spent plenty of time "building my character" in beta GW... Experimenting with attributes, choosing weapons and armor, finding the best, most versatile and most efficient combination of skills I could bring to the table to compliment my team. That's what building a character means. Playing whack-a-mole until it tells you the numerical value that dictates your strength has increased by 1? No. That's something else.

GW is not a traditional RPG, and you're not going to get anywhere by trying to make it into one. I recommend you try some of the other fabulous choices on the RPG market.

lmao. How do I answer something like that without shaming us all? Yeah, my connection from China is great, I'm here to oppress you and your foolish capitalista notions like Free Speech! TAKE THAT, CONSTITUTION!