People banned for "exploiting". - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

StandardAI

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2005

K A R M A

18 Jun 2005 at 00:26 - 1

How would you feel if you did something that the game allowed and got banned for it? If you didn't even know it was an exploit, people who ascended more than once now have been banned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by www.guildwars.com

As players may have noted, we took action to close a game exploit today. We would like to remind players that the willful use of exploits is against the EULA and the Rules of Conduct. Several players who used the exploit have had their Guild Wars accounts permanently banned. If you find an exploit, please contact us directly through [email protected]. We are grateful for the assistance of the community in such matters, and will attend to reports as promptly as possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://guildwars.com/legal/rules-of-conduct.html

You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars. Bugs should be promptly reported via 'Ask a Question' at http://support.guildwars.com.

"(bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits)" That's a really vague statement, there's no list of what arenanet does intend us to do, and not to do in the game. This line alone gives them the ability to ban any one of us at any time for whatever reason they deem fit.

PS. If you don't know the definition for entrapment, go look it up.

Golgotha

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Rt/

18 Jun 2005 at 00:31 - 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by StandardAI

That's a really vague statement, there's no list of what arenanet does intend us to do, and not to do in the game. This line alone gives them the ability to ban any one of us at any time for whatever reason they deem fit.

Last I checked it was their servers - so yes, they are the judge and jury. Most poeple knew it was an exploit they were using and I really don't mind how Anet decided to dish out the punishment. It's simple, don't try to get a leg up due to an obvious exploit and you won't have any problems. It sets a good example early on.

StandardAI

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2005

K A R M A

18 Jun 2005 at 00:33 - 3

A ton of people were exploiting vengeance and weren't banned, it's called entrapment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golgotha

Last I checked it was their servers - so yes, they are the judge and jury. Most poeple knew it was an exploit they were using and I really don't mind how Anet decided to dish out the punishment. It's simple, don't try to get a leg up due to an obvious exploit and you won't have any problems. It sets a good example early on.

Go look up the definition for communism as well.

gwden

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

18 Jun 2005 at 00:38 - 4

I hope the guy who was bragging about the exploit in the other post got banned, too. See, this is why you have to share these things-- if too many people did it, ANet wouldn't ban anyone.

Golgotha

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Rt/

18 Jun 2005 at 00:43 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by StandardAI

A ton of people were exploiting vengeance and weren't banned, it's called entrapment. Go look up the definition for communism as well.

Entrapment refers to a purposely placed situation. I'm sure Anet wasn't going to leave a bug like that laying around for the sole enjoyment of picking off the feeders. If you somehow believe that getting that amount of XP over and over again was supposed to be implemented that way, then you have more problems than just your banned account. Everyone knew it was an exploit and thought they'd cash in, and they got what they deserve for it. High risk, high reward - or no reward, in this case.

Vengeance didn't involve people getting massive XP or item rewards through its use, did it? No, it didn't. If you're so disenfranchised by this game so much, as you so obviously look down upon it, then why are you still around, exactly?

StandardAI

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2005

K A R M A

18 Jun 2005 at 00:47 - 6

Actually I know of guilds that got their rank entirely because of the vengeance bug, yes it was exploited. No, the definition for entrapment isn't just limited to that. They created exploiters out of people who otherwise wouldn't exploit.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

18 Jun 2005 at 00:49 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by StandardAI

Actually I know of guilds that got their rank entirely because of the vengeance bug, yes it was exploited. No, the definition for entrapment isn't just limited to that. They create exploiters out of people who otherwise wouldn't exploit.

and how long did they KEEP their ill gotten rank anyway?

Red Locust

Site Contributor

Join Date: May 2005

18 Jun 2005 at 00:49 - 8

I'm pretty sure everyone was aware that getting an infinite amount of exp for doing something as easy as defeating your mirror image, was an exploit. Not saying the bannings were deserved, but to argue that this isn't an exploit is silly.

StandardAI

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2005

K A R M A

18 Jun 2005 at 00:51 - 9

It is an exploit, there's a ton of them. No hacks were involved, nothing. Anyone who just went "hmm that's cool I can ascend more than once, I wonder if this is intended or not" just got banned. It's really called communism folks.

Ignotus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Parliament of Rooks

W/Mo

18 Jun 2005 at 00:55 - 10

Quote:

They created exploiters out of people who otherwise wouldn't exploit.

That is HILARIOUS. I assume you mean ArenaNet by "they". I guess ArenaNet made you exploit? It was OBVIOUSLY a bug. Anyone who says they didn't know it is ignorant, in denial, or lying. I don't think you know wtf communism is either. If you got banned, move along and stop posting here. There's no reason to clutter up the guru boards if you don't have a GW account. Most of the posts I've seen by AI are spam or flames anyway. You reap what you sow.

Heron Fensbanel

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Here and there.

R/Mo

18 Jun 2005 at 00:58 - 11

Since when do communists ban people for ascending more than once?

ManadartheHealer

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Awaiting GW2

W/

18 Jun 2005 at 01:01 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by StandardAI

Go look up the definition for communism as well.

In case you don't know, communism is an economic system and is therefore irrelevant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heron Fensbanel

Since when do communists ban people for ascending more than once?

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

18 Jun 2005 at 01:03 - 13

http://guildwars.com/legal/rules-of-conduct.html

Quote:

18. You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars

ANet states clearly

you take advantage of any exploit, you risk being banned

people should use common sense when they find gamebugs

Navaros

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/Me

18 Jun 2005 at 01:04 - 14

banning for exploiting is immoral

that's blaming the players for the devs' own incomplete coding

the players are not to blame, therefore the players should not be punished

if players are able to do something in the game without any third-party programs running, then it should be totally legal to do it. period.

shame on ANet for banning those players

ManadartheHealer

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Awaiting GW2

W/

18 Jun 2005 at 01:05 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

use common sense

That is the problem most people run into

Darc.Syde

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

Spirits Of War

Me/Mo

18 Jun 2005 at 01:17 - 17

i blame the skill point system... ban that...

Ignotus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Parliament of Rooks

W/Mo

18 Jun 2005 at 01:17 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

banning for exploiting is immoral

that's blaming the players for the devs' own incomplete coding

the players are not to blame, therefore the players should not be punished

if players are able to do something in the game without any third-party programs running, then it should be totally legal to do it. period.

shame on ANet for banning those players

YOU ARE IN DENIAL. The rules clearly state that exploiting a bug is against the TOS. Whether you like it or not, that's the rule that you agreed to when accepting the TOS. Every game I've ever played had the same rule. Not all of them banned on the first offense, but this was pretty serious. I like the strong ban-hand. Maybe it will cause more people to think before exploiting the next bug they find.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

18 Jun 2005 at 01:19 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchiel

I pray that StandardAi used this exploit and got his account perma-banned. That would be the day

and Navaros seems a bit ticked off as well

dare we hope for both of them?

if you are not caught it has to be allright

if someone makes a mistake it is their loss when i cheat them

if they make a mistake i am just helping them be more carefull next time so what i stole is really for their benefit

the list goes on but dont blame someone for breaking the rules just because they can get away with it.

OOPS THEY DIDNT GET AWAY WITH IT *snickker*

Pharalon

Beta Tester

Join Date: Jan 2005

Carebear Club

18 Jun 2005 at 01:20 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golgotha

If you're so disenfranchised by this game so much, as you so obviously look down upon it, then why are you still around, exactly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by StandardAI 04-19-2005

Kirbster, I can already tell you I'm not going to buy guildwars. I spent ten dollars on a game I intended to own, I will still own it none the less, but I can tell you I won't buy it.

Standard likes to grandstand, exaggerate and embelish to make his points seem more grandiose than they actually are. There's no entrapment going on, and god knows how he's drawing parallels to communism. Entrapment by definition involves some intent to cause the prohibited action, which means the bannable offense would a design feature and not a bug. Are you really suggesting that ANet is now incorporating exploits into their design documents specifically to allow them to ban people? I'd better get out my tin-foil hat in that case.

Personally, I think banning people for exploiting something as irrelevant to other peoples playing experience as an XP bug is harsh. Large scale abuse of vengeance was worse in my opinion, but I'm not the judge, so my view is largely irrelevant.

Laws are set out cleary, but are enforced in an arbitrary manner. You won't find an online game where this isn't the case. And FYI, that's more a characteristic of a dictatorial form of government.

Lasareth

Aquarius

Join Date: Jun 2005

Somewhere between Boardwalk and Park Place

18 Jun 2005 at 01:20 - 21

Holy crap, I know someone who did the quest again just to beat his mirror. If he was banned for this, that's bs. Neither of us knew about this exploit.

Dumachum

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

na

R/E

18 Jun 2005 at 01:20 - 22

Heh, why would I of been banned? I reported the damn thing after finding it. i didn't abuse it like apparantly some did. And it WAS an exploit, a rather obvious one too.

ManadartheHealer

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Awaiting GW2

W/

18 Jun 2005 at 01:20 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignotus

YOU ARE IN DENIAL. The rules clearly state that exploiting a bug is against the TOS. Whether you like it or not, that's the rule that you agreed to when accepting the TOS. Every game I've ever played had the same rule. Not all of them banned on the first offense, but this was pretty serious. I like the strong ban-hand. Maybe it will cause more people to think before exploiting the next bug they find.

*Applauds* A most powerful statement.

What he says is true. You agreed to the TOS, now you have to live with it

Dumachum

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

na

R/E

18 Jun 2005 at 01:22 - 24

And it had nothing to do with simply killing your mirror again for fun or trying to get the bonus (broke?). You could kill it in a fashion that it wouldn't advance the story past ascension, and THAT was bad.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

18 Jun 2005 at 01:23 - 25

I have issues with them banning players for 'exploiting', just because the bar can be set as low as they want. Using Vengance when it was broken was clearly an exploit. The Essence Bond / Life Bond combo was technically bugged and thus using it was an exploit. While a situation like this is pretty extreme, their policy amounts to little more than 'we can ban you whenever we feel like it'.

Granted, they pretty much have that right anyway. I guess I'm just not comfortable with it.

Peace,
-CxE

Ninna

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Northeast USA

Guilded Rose

Me/

18 Jun 2005 at 01:26 - 26

I personally found names being banned (with no rename) more extreme

Tala

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

SF, California

18 Jun 2005 at 01:32 - 27

Damn AI, now I have coke spewed all over my keyboard because of your posts. It's your fault too. You knew I'd bork my coke when the humor of your postings became clear! That's entrapment! You're buying me a new keyboard buddy! Oh...and I don't want one of those fancy schmancy ones either. I want one that IBM gave to some Russian colleges many years ago. That's right...I want a RED keyboard.

Fetch.

Theus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

W/Mo

18 Jun 2005 at 01:39 - 28

...
Tell me, other then simply ressurecting a player..Did Vengence give you an incredibly large amount of Experiance and skill points? No. It simply revived you. Whoop-de-do.

I think if you exploited this bug and you expected not to get banned, your an idiot.

Supervixen

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

Asia

18 Jun 2005 at 01:42 - 29

If it's a red Type-M keyboard, I want one too. *loves her spring buckle IBM*

On the subject though, much as I support the banning of bug exploiters, I can't let go of the feeling that there are people truly clueless enough to stumble into the bug by accident.

In this case, I would've preferred to see an account rollback, rather than an outright banning.

drowningfish999

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Awakened Tempest [aT]

18 Jun 2005 at 01:43 - 30

I'm thinking they looked through to see if people seriously exploited the bug, or just accidently did it once or maybe twice. If you see that someone was constantly re-doing that part numerous times, of course they're gonna get banned. But perhaps the people that didn't exploit it extremely were ok. I do think that the banning was a little harsh, but they do have the freedom to do what they want.

Theus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

W/Mo

18 Jun 2005 at 01:44 - 31

Think about it for a second..

When you do a quest..do you go do it again?

No.So the people who were exploiting obiviously knew they were.

Darc.Syde

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

Spirits Of War

Me/Mo

18 Jun 2005 at 01:44 - 32

well, if you take out the draw back of a spell, it's too good - hence the reason for the draw back in the first place. so it is an exploit, same with stacking balthazar's aura back when it was bugged.

if anet is true with there word, you're gonna see alot of good players - lulu, cross, etc - banned.

edit: you can also be banned if you've ever passed a relic through a door

Howling Wind

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Down The Road

R/Mo

18 Jun 2005 at 01:45 - 33

I'm interested to know who's character in this forum got banned...

If that guy who originally posted about the exploit in the other thread got banned...well not be rude its kind of ironicly funny...

dansamy

Chasing Dragons

Join Date: May 2005

Lost in La-La Land

LFGuild

Mo/Me

18 Jun 2005 at 01:49 - 34

Ok now that they've fixed it, would anyone like to explain the bug for me? Exactly what was happening. (I was busy in the UW when a little messge popped up about Augury being closed until further notice.)

BE|Dac

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2005

18 Jun 2005 at 01:57 - 35

Exploits are for cool people.

btw i passed through walls, picked up free rares in oasis etc.

Gaile Gray

ArenaNet

Join Date: Feb 2005

18 Jun 2005 at 02:00 - 36

It's really important that you guys know that we didn't ban people who hit upon this exploit accidentally or who were merely trying to complete the mission. We banned people who did this intentionally and on a repeated basis. We have complete logs of everything that these players did, and it's enormously obvious who was trying to exploit the bug and who wasn't. Those who were not, and even those who were simply marginal, were not banned. If there was even the slightest question of their involvement in intentional exploitation, we left the account unbanned. In other words, only the worst abusers were banned.

If you have questions about this, you might read the EULA and the Rules of Conduct. I'm not saying that nastily, like Read the Flippin' Manual! I'm saying it because I read it myself, just today, to make sure once again that all that we were discussing was on the up and up. The RoC calls out explicitly that players should not use exploits and that there are appropriate repercussions for their use. No one undertook this exploit (sometimes dozens of times) in an "innocent" fashion.

For the good of the game, those who used the exploit -- and again, at the highest levels of abuse -- have been banned.

We're sorry it was necessary.

Sarus

Ministry of Technology

Join Date: Feb 2005

Washington D.C.

Idiot Savants

Mo/

18 Jun 2005 at 02:05 - 37

If they banned people for using the vengeance "exploit" or any of the other bugged skills they could also shut down tombs and do away with PvP cause the entire PvP community would be banned.

If the entire PvP community was banned then nobody would complain about grind and Anet would be free to raise the level cap to 5000 and suck in all those WoW players that get off on watching their experience bars fill up.

Seems like a plan to me.

Shinsei

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

Denmark

18 Jun 2005 at 02:13 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

It's really important that you guys know that we didn't ban people who hit upon this exploit accidentally or who were merely trying to complete the mission. We banned people who did this intentionally and on a repeated basis.

I farmed the wreckages intentionally and on a repeated basis, along with the Hill Giants before all that got "fixed". Why am I not banned?

Ignotus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Parliament of Rooks

W/Mo

18 Jun 2005 at 02:14 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

I farmed the wreckages intentionally and on a repeated basis, along with the Hill Giants before all that got "fixed". Why am I not banned?

Incomming....

Dralon

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Stillwater, OK

R/Mo

18 Jun 2005 at 02:17 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by StandardAI

A ton of people were exploiting vengeance and weren't banned, it's called entrapment.

Go look up the definition for communism as well.

You are right. A game world is not, and never has been a Democracy. But thanks for the tip.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

18 Jun 2005 at 02:18 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignotus

Incomming....

outgoing??