Stupid forge runners!

So, did you just not read the second part of my post?
I understand the "problem". I just don't see why it is an issue.
If a level 5 got the to Forge that way, well...that's their issue, not mine.

In my opinion, the biggest issue involved is not these low level players getting to the Forge, but what they're doing there once they arrive.

How can a level 5 character afford the armor there?
Two scenarios:

1. They have more than one character and are merely skipping around a bit, funding a new character with money left over from their higher level characters.
(Which I'm ok with...I wouldn't do it to this extreme, but I have no problem with it.)

2. They're cheating and obtaining in-game money by out-of-game means.
(This, in my opinion, is the real problem.)

Said it numerous times in my threads I have never been to a low lvl arena, and would not allow anyone into my guild that did this. Dont take things out of context.

There is an area of Lornars where you encounter 6 wurms, and a patrol of grawl about 15 strong.

I did, and I didn't reply as I agree about this. If someone wants to spoil his own fun, I don't care either.
The issue is not the forge taxi. This is a symptom. The issue is the answer to this question: "why are they running to the forge?", or more generally "why are they using RP characters and skip standard gameplay?". This is the sickness which causes the taxi symptom.
Simply put, you can't do anything about this. If you remove the player's stash, they'll ask for a guildie's help to twink items & gold. Unless you want to remove trading entirely, you can't prevent them from obtaining in-game money by out-of-game means.

I honestly didn't know that twinking in the low level arenas was this rampant, but let's be honest, closing the ability to go to Droknar's through Lornar's won't solve this issue.
First of all, every twinker who already HAS his armor will still keep going back, and second, all it takes to get sup runes and top tier weaponry is another character and a storage account. How are they going to stop that then? How are they going to stop people selling max damage axes / bows / hammers in ascalon? If you want to stop twinkers, you have to stop ALL of it, including sales and storage.

The low level area of the game is being polluted by high level items, and really, if anyone thinks it's just the armor in the arenas, well, it's evident that it's not. Granted, the weapons have a requirement attached to them, but a 6-28 axe AM9 for someone with AM 6 is still going to do more damage than a 6-14 axe with requirements met.

However, there is a SUPER easy fix for the arena issue. Every character who goes into the arena has his gear stripped (and placed in temporary storage), and is given appropriate gear for his level.
This game is supposed to be about skills? Fight with skills, not loot.
Entire problem completely, irrevocably, 100% solved. The twinkers will IMMEDIATELY quit playing the low level arenas, since they have zero skill and will get slaughtered without their ph4t l3wt, and everyone can fight against everyone else on the same footing.

Simple, neh?

Creston

Hehe, yeah sure they will. Actually, let's put five dozen wurms RIGHT THERE outside of Beacon's Perch, that way the runner won't have time to turn on his skills and stances.
ofcourse, it ganks anyone who wants to just go fight for fun in Lornar's, but hey, YOU are having a problem with someone having high level armor, so let's just nerf the area again.
We also need to add a lot more disenchanter critters to every mob in the game, as well as let every monster use nothing but elite skills now at no energy cost. Who cares about what it does to the rest of the PvE. See what I mean?

The end result of requests like this is :Hey, maybe we can stuff every area with a MILLION WURMS, and nobody will ever be able to walk ANYWHERE EVER AGAIN?!
WOOT!!1!11one!!

Creston

Well me being of sound judgement and mind would not choose to race you. Just like no one HAS to go into low lvl arenas. I would say nice you have a corvette, maybe someday I will have a corvette then we can race.

You people make it sound like everyone must do low lvl arenas or they are not going to enjoy they game, but wait they also have to go into low level arenas and win.

This drastic solution won't solve anything at all. What about powerful elite skills which are captured in Volcanic Island, or more generally skills that a lvl5 newcomer cannot use.
Where do I sign? This could be an alternate solution, if it can be implemented (you may underestimate the complexity of the equipment involved).


How can we get a PvP training ground that is newbie friendly? Use the account-based fame score to determine which arena you can enter, and give fame for all PvP matches, including from random arenas (and give a specific reward for Tomb player or they'll start complaining). As soon as you've earned enough fame by beating beginners, you can't enter newbie PvP areas anymore.

Can anyone provide a screen of this alledged n00b bashing? I am sure that it has happened before, but it is one of those things that people are like "I heard it form a friend who's friend had a cousin that got n00b bashed in Ascalon". I least ways do not think of it as an epidemic. Taxi service is fine, takes away from farming, and it is a legitamite business. If you say it is not then start a petition to fire all public transportation workers in the United States. Cause according to you taking a bus down town is a CHEATING HAXOR thing to do. Everyone should have to walk no matter where they want to go. Oops sorry kids we cant take the mini-van to grandma's we have to walk 200miles cause we arent allowed to drive people other than ourselves.

It was meant sarcastically. You can't STOP twinkers in a game that allows high level content to be brought into low level areas. This has been a staple of MMORPGs since the days of MUDs.

I don't think so, unless I'm really mistaken about the way Anet handles items and characters. If they're just database entries, a character goes into the Arena, server makes note "Character Arlen Daodanar enters the Arena, following items assigned. #3781, #99745, #12332, #24353, #23535 etc", then the game gives me a weapon based on my class (if axe mastery > 3 then spawn item #axe0001), armor based on my class (very easy, based on what's sold in the same town as the arena, so ringmail for example), and a shield if you're a warrior, or a similar collector's item outside if you're something else.
Enter the arena, fight.

When you leave the arena, the server destroys the items (or lets you keep them, they're junk anyways, and it's a nice reward for participating), hands you your loot back, and you're on your way.
This adds a bit of cost to Anet's operations (After all, you'll probably need a server and some storage space just to run that items checkin-checkout thing), but it should be pretty simple, imo.

Then again, I'm not a programmer, so don't shoot me.

Creston



How can we get a PvP training ground that is newbie friendly? Use the account-based fame score to determine which arena you can enter, and give fame for all PvP matches, including from random arenas (and give a specific reward for Tomb player or they'll start complaining). As soon as you've earned enough fame by beating beginners, you can't enter newbie PvP areas anymore.[/QUOTE]

It could make it so that if you win the arena battle you could keep the generated items, and if you lose you don't

This question is to each one of you individually

If I buy my own personal copy of GW so that I can get on my computer and log into the game over the internet connection that I pay for, why do I have to play the game the way you do?

I apologize in advance for getting off-topic, but I don't believe you're correct.
If you don't meet the qualifications for using a weapon, then the damage of that weapon reverts back to the base damage for a starter weapon of that class.

If you don't meet the requirement of 9 Swordsmanship for a sword that does 15-21 damage, then you can equip it, but that sword is going to do about 2-4 damage.

Am I wrong on this? I'm pretty sure I've read articles on this topic on this very site.

you are correct my friend. if you do not meet the requirement then you will get no benefit from wielding that weapon

Oh, I thought that it was a gradual scale, I stand corrected. it seems to me that my warrior did more damage as my AM went up, even though I didn't have the requirements yet, but I probably just saw the effects of my improved Axe mastery skill.

Even then, there's max weapons out there with lower requirements than others. My solution for the arena problem still stands.

Creston

well, a friend of mine in the guild said he got rushed to droknars and then he asked everyone in the guild for 1k.. i was so mad cause he was asking other people for the money, so i was like go farm some of ur own money and i kicked him off the guild, i do think they are stupid, and that was his first character

You kicked someone off your guild because they asked you for money for some armor? Then you turned him out on his own and were like go farm your own money?! You would never get this from my guild. Although 1K from every member seems a little extreme, in our guild we help each other buy new armor all the time. We give gold and materials. Why? Because what ever makes my guild member stronger makes my guild stronger. If I find a Gold weapon, you know what I do? I give it to a guildie I dont sell it for a profit.

Give me the IGN of that guild member you kicked, he can come play for ACE. We will turn him into a lean mean fighting machine then we can GvG you guys and he can get his revenge.

Now for the sake of remaining on topic. LONG LIVE FORGE RUNS!

Well the most obvious solution to creating a newbie friendly arena experience, would be to open an arena in pre searing, all the armor, both starter and quested, are basically equal in power, and the "uber" charr weapon drops, really wont unbalance anything, since their damage ratios are rather pathetic.
This way, the pre searing arena would provide a nice intro to GW PvP, and the post searing arena would be the playground for anyone who isnt new to the game, and knows how to get and use high level skills/armor/weapons.
No change needed to Lornars pass or the arena requirements, all we need is a pre searing arena, and noone can complain about unfairness.

Lol a run would take about 1 day to make sucessfully , beside in one day u can make Beacons ==> droknars way more easyly with the missions a friend made that ^^ 2 days , first char he made ^^

Why the hell is Camp Rankor in the middle anyways? Ever thought of that? New area my ass. It's there because it connects the Southern Shiverpeaks with the Northern Shiverpeaks. Arenanet intentionally made Forge runs a possibility, and it is meant to be used. It is not an exploit, so get used to it. You don't see me complaining about "LFG mission" when I want to get to Granite Citadel from a mission area.

"You kicked someone off your guild because they asked you for money for some armor? Then you turned him out on his own and were like go farm your own money?!"

Ok, let's see, someone joins your guild and want money for armor he/she shouldn't even *see* not to mention wear. That would be... annoying. Sure people support one another, but for items at their level. So, if I want "Max DMG Sword with l33t Stats, 100k" does it mean guild should give me money? Definately not.

I'm thinking they really should have limited what armor and weapon people could wear according to level (like most MMORPGs) from the git go. That seems to be the most problematic thing here. I don't think we'd be having this discussion if it were the case. Give people an inch and they'll take a mile.

Unfortunately I would think fixing things now would be pretty hard.

Ya this is an obvious oversight on Anet's part. They did it for all the items that can be found but not for armor. While you can equip a powerful weapon, most likely you don't meet the requirements and so it reverts to a normal weapon. But they forgot all about armor....doh.

I don't think it's too late for them to introduce level requirements for armor. It was done for another rpg Sacred, so it can be done for GW. Would make all those Droknar's twinkers cry...

Point is the armor at Droknar's was meant to be used by ascended characters otherwise it should have been made available at the get-go in Ascalon City.

Wrong. At least partially. While the MAIN (and perhaps only) purpose of the Droknar armor is for Ascended, it should NOT be available from the get-go. The low level people who get it from Droknar took the time and effort to traverse that Pass (WHICH ARENANET PUT THERE AND WHICH THEY CONNECTED TO DROKNAR'S FORGE) to get to the armor crafter. It is way different to go through that huge pass than to simply wander out of noob-land and poof you get nice max armor.

Oh please, paying a warrior to taxi you from Beacon's Perch to Droknar's Forge takes no skill whatsoever.

To have the money to pay for the help and also to afford the armor itself means you might as well have that armor. Only reason they even have the crappy armor is because for some people that's the best they can afford at that stage.

Show me a person who's never gotten past Beacon's Perch before, but has enough money to get a free ride to Droknar's as well as money/materials for the armor itself and I'll show you an eBayer/someone with good connections.

Don't worry, it's only a matter of time before this exploit gets patched. Anet will probably introduce level requirements on armor, because they have always said the game was about skill not twinkage. Allowing a low-level to acquire and use high-level armor, however the means he did it, is tantamount to gross twinkage and will have to be patched.

To assume is to make an ass of you.

Really now, if it surely is going to be patched stop crying about it people. Level 10 arena is pointless anyways. If the majority of the people you met whooped you because of their godly Droknar's armor, then you might as well go get a set of your own, because obviously you're seeing it everywhere. If you can't beat them, join them. If you're not going to join them, please don't bitch about it.

LOL, when you run out of argument, resort to pretty insult. You're nothing more than a troll.

I see both sides of this argument...already done it, why do it again, and it shouldnt be allowed. I have to side with the 'it shouldnt be allowed' crowd though. What other game allows you to just skip a huge chuck of it because you have done it before? I cant think of a single one, Im sure there are some, but none of the other games I have played allow this. I consider it the price of restarting.

Were I a dev (Im not, Im too stoopid) I would place a HUGE wall, about 3/4 of the way from BP to Drok's. The wall would be a huge wall that looked alot like the Hollywood sign.. cept it would say "HA HA HA HA."

Yeah I'd figure it'd come down to name calling if I didn't back up what I said so I have. Take a second look.

Can you tell me the reason why Lornar's even connects to Droknar's? It is to give un-Ascended people a chance to wear the best armor. Everyone knows Crystal Desert armor sucks. So even if someone is level 20 and not Ascended, he or she can still run the pass and get the level 20 requirement godly armor. This is still twinking, even if it's not as dramatic as the level 10's wearing Droknars.

If Arenanet wanted to add another Shiverpeaks area, they didn't have to make it connect to Beacon's Perch.

Then perhaps we should have level requirements on skills too because it isn't fair to have someone rushed to Fisherman's have skills that are above par with those in Ascalon. Oh and hey, the armor in Amnoon is way above par with what you can get in Ascalon so maybe we should nerf that too. Seriously, you're on a slippery slope here. I got rushed on my final character because I simply didn't want to put the time into the missions for an umpteenth time. If you think you only do those missions once or twice, then perhaps you might want to try helping out guild members sometime.

If you really want to prevent twinking and making the beginning arenas more newbie friendly, put an arena in pre-searing where it would be impossible for anyone to have EQ above anyone else.

Any game with a new game+.

I would compliment the ingenuity of players to find a way to get the armor, though I'm not always sure it's by design. If Anet truly wanted to let people know routes they wouldn't have blured it out on the map..would they?

I often ponder if the developer thought "We're going to make a game, take the restrictions and things out that people hate about MMOs, and people are going to play it the way we want"...not realising that it's those restrictions that keep games in check. Then I think they can't possibly be that naive

It's seems to me most most of the complaints of this game stem from either come from people who feel pvp is unfair, or high level items are over priced. Both these things would be solved, IMO, if there were some restrictions on what players can equip or go.

Look there are several different ways to play this game, the people who want to play the game by doing every quest, playing the story line, ect shouldn't feel like they are losing out or doing something wrong just because they don't want to skip ahead.

Would you be able to tell the difference between a person run to Droknar's Forge and a person who crafted this right outside of Sanctum Cay?

And if not this, there's 51 AL armor, 45 AL armor, and 39 AL armor craftable as well, not including whatever there might be available through the collectors. It's not really that hard to take henchmen to travel ahead of a given area, especially with run buffs and healing. How much of an advantage does it take to become too much?

[Numbers above are based on 60 AL caster armor.]

Dax, I agree with you. That is my point. Anet WANTED players to be able to wear that armor even if they didn't Ascend. At least, that is what it looks like. However, I do not think the problem would be that people took it to PvP and owned everyone with it. I'm sure they might have thought "well...if they get owned in PvP they can go get their own set of Droknar's armor"

Mercury Angel, it is actually faster to get to Droknar's Forge than to get to Sanctum Cay. Also, the Forge armor is better (even if it's slightly) so...why not?

You know what I did today? Just to piss all you guys off I rushed a Guildie to Amnoon Oasis. You know what his level is? 7. Yep I RAN all the way from Ascalon. Took me about 2 hours to do it too. Guess what character I used. My lvl 15 Monk. I had a great time doing it too. I considered it more of a challenege than the quests/missions plus I got to see some nice country side. Sort of like a Sunday drive.

Do you know what this is called? Steamlining. I have found a more efficient way of doing something. My first character I spent 150 hours getting her to ascend, I now have an effective process that I will be able to make a lvl 20 PvE character in a weekend. You want to call people like me that do this HAXORS and CHEATERS and you want the programmers to make drastic changes to the game to prevent this.

Why don't you go burn a bunch of books you Nazi's?

We are not hackers, cheats we are forward thinkers not afraid to do something outside the norm and go against the flow. At sometime somewhere some guy had the desire to run Lornars. Imagine how much trail and error he went thru to discover the way to do it. He put the right build together and did it. Word got out, and more and more people started doing it. This first guy that did this has more originality and dedication to the game than most people that play. I wonder how long it took him his first time? You know that Draknors is about 3-4 hours of play if you fight your way thru? It takes 30-45 minutes to run. How can you people say you detest this while you eat your McDonalds hamburger made in under 30 seconds?

Go ahead and put a level cap on Armor, I will rush my toon to Temple of Ages and do a couple of 5K and 10K fissure/UW runs and have a lvl 20 in a day, then rush them to Droknars and buy the armor.

This low level arena bashing is not occuring. Did the author of this post say this happened to him? It is a rumour brought on by jealous people. Read it above. He spent 130 hours and someone else did it faster. He says that it is not fair. I read envy in the line "because he has lots of money to pay a runner", and you guys placate to him. Saying don't feel bad we are all winners here, everybody in the class gets a gold star. Reality check people,
we are not all created equal. People are going to do things better than you, just because they do does not give you to right to cry foul, lets change the rules.

You know what if I had the resources to buy Draknors Armor and 100K weapons for each member of my guild I would, and I would have it waiting for them as soon as they reached post-searing. I do not though, so I do what I can. I happily give a guildie 1K here a couple of steel ingots there. You know why? That generosity pays itself back 10 fold. Had a guild member that when we started out I gave him all the charr hides I could, so he could make some fur squares, and guess what we were just sitting around BSing and he was like "you know what your armor would look really cool black", and he gave me black dye. So what did I essentially do? If you break it down I traded a couple of fur squares for some black dye. Go spam that in the trade channels and see if you get that deal.

A group of people working as a team is stronger than a bunch of individuals.

Haha kungfumonkey2, great post and great screenname.

Yeah, it does piss me off. Because you didn't rush ME instead.

PS I would like to join your clan

Anyways, yeah. It is a problem, yes. But I see nothing stopping people from getting their own set of Droknar's armor for their level 10's.

Was just making the "If not _____, then ____" point. If you take away the means to get the Forge armor, people will just get the next best thing. And if not that, so on and so forth.

That, and assuming someone ran to the forge when the difference between sanctum cay armor and droknar's is so negligable, and they may very well NOT have the forge armor would be a blunder on the part of the person making the assumption.

Yeah, you're right. And for that reason, level restrictions will have to be put on all armor. And this, in turn, pretty much ruins the game for those who don't play in the "orthodox" storyline method. Even those who are a few levels behind of their area (like a level 15 in a level 17 area) will be penalized by the armor restrictions.

Ah yea I get what you're sayin'. Though I'm not sure I agree they really wanted people run and grab the armor that early. If so it was a mistake because, while it does make people happy early in the game, it create alot of friction with poeple who want to follow the path through the story line and think of it as part of the endgame.

That's just my opinion though, maybe they did or don't care if they do. It's not too hard.

Lornar's Pass connects Beacon's Perch and Droknar's Forge for a reason.
Now, its obviously not for Ascended characters to get to Droknar's, because they can warp there. So honestly, why else is it there?

Secondly, its been said time and time again. Show me someone with their first character who can be rushed to Droknar's and afford not only 1.5K per piece of armor, but also the cost in materials for that armor. Maybe if I had saved every scrap of money and ran around in Pre-searing armor all the way up to Maguuma, sure. 99% of people who rush Lornar's are people on their second/third/fourth/kabillionth character who don't want to repeat the same content over and over again, or at the very least, make it less aggravating on top of repetitious.

And level restrictions on armor? Great, now people who want to move through the game quickly have to grind exp to wear armor to stay alive. On top of that, we already have a fixed distribution of skills at various outposts which forces people to play within at times narrowly defined paramaters (Ever wondered why for the first half of the game, every Ele is a pyromancer?)
so, let's reduce choice and playstyle even more. Its like writing up a big codified rulebook for the exact manner in which people are to play the PvE and punishing those who fail to abide by it.

I would lose a lot of faith in ANet if they patched armor in that way, or cut Beacon's off from Droknar's.