Stupid forge runners!

I don't have much in the way of an opinion on this matter, because I don't really PvP a whole lot. I prefer senselessly killing monsters and stuff, but anyway.

This occured to me while sifting through the posts here, why not have an arena in Pre-Searing Ascalon? It would provide the perfect isolation scenario so many people here want, because you can't really get an 'uber' armor and there isn't a bank so you can't get any of the high level runes to make your character a demi-god among newcomers.

There could also possibly be some sort of simple 100 exp quest from Sir Tydus that sends you to the arena to check on recruits so that you would know the arena is there, and maybe some random NPC in the market area advertising it. The level 10 cap could remain in place, maybe even level 5 if you are so inclined, or both...Also, so it sort of fits into the storyline of you preparing for war against the Charr, make it a Training Yard instead of an Arena. While we are at it, make it a requirement to participate in a battle there before you can advance to post-searing.

I think that would help solve some of the problems at hand, but then again, MAYBE TEH CHARR WILL INVADE TEH ARENA! Hehehe..hehe...heh...Meh.

Edit: Oh and uh, this is addressing the issue of the high level armor in the Ascalon Arena...I don't know if I needed to say that or not. o_O As for the use of the Lornar's Pass as a shortcut to get armor for the rest of the game and such, I don't care too much.

THANK YOU FLAME!

For having an idea that is not a nerf, or takes away from the game. Instead it adds to the content, and storyline of the game. Your idea may infact create a larger pool of characters that enjoy PvP? Why, because it gets people attempting PvP early on, and allows them to try it over and over again. Unlike the quasi PvP mission that takes you to Post-searing. Most new players dont even know what is going on, and get taken out by more experienced 3rd-4th timers. There really isn't clear warning that you are going to PvP. I know my first time I didn't know what the hell was happening just some counter going down. I was like are we fighting the computer or other players? By the time I figured it out my team was dead. They don't even get a chance to try it again if they want to. 1 shot is all you get. This experience probably sours people to PvP early on.

To all who say the RPG side of the game is boring: Why bother playing it at all? If its even half as dull as you say why are you even bothering?

I've got an Ascended Ranger and a soon-to-be ascdended Warrior/Ele and i've had just as much fun with my Warrior as i have with my Ranger, it feels like a completely different kettle of fish all together when i play my Warrior - it's a hell of a lot different from when i did it with my Ranger.

If you all hate the story so much why are you even playing it? :/

Yes it has been said time and time again but dont' you still have get XP anyways? The game isn't that incredibly hard to get through on the armor provided...And if it's really THAT repetious and aggrivating why bother. Cmon, is that really the reason or is it just cool to have the expensive armor.
Many people (that I know of atleast) who replay games usually replay them on a harder level for the challenge.

I totally repspect other people gamestyles, but once again if you can run to Droknars, you're probably a saavy enough gamer that this game is easy as cake. Most MMORPGS have some sort of level restrictions on armor and have managed just fine. Is it your contention that at any level everything should be unlocked? It's not enough that you can zone to every town once visited, or that you need no skill points for crafting, or no competion for mobs? Maybe we should have a button that kills mobs on sight if they get too hard too

"You know what if I had the resources to buy Draknors Armor and 100K weapons for each member of my guild I would, and I would have it waiting for them as soon as they reached post-searing. I do not though, so I do what I can. I happily give a guildie 1K here a couple of steel ingots there. You know why? That generosity pays itself back 10 fold."

I'm not sayiing I don't give guild members gold or crafting materials - but there's slight difference between, say lvl 5 player wanting to buy new armor in Ascalon and another lvl5 expecting 1k from all for 1.5k set. In other words - I help them get stuff at *their* level, not something "uber" which I had to work my ass off to acquire(well, not really, they're not *that* expensive)

I mean:

Lvl5 : "I need 50k for that "godly sword of uberness"
Me : "Why certainly, you want Superior Vigor with that? Or maybe fries?"

although i feel like this has become a bit of a dead horse i really just wanna add my two cents:
there are things in life (and in a game) that are not fair..... thats the way it is.... i haven't set foot in an arena in the pve areas with my warrior monk or my monk mes (warrior is 20th) i honestly am in it for the pve aspect of the game.... yea i'm sure i can use the practice in pvp for when my guild battles but i have a pvp player i practice with sure not all the skills are unlocked but she has the same build as my 20 and it's good practice for her...
i was goin to go into the ascaolon arena tonight with my lvl 7 monk but after reading this i'mnot sure i want to.. i think i'll try it out see ift he problem is really all that bad...

Now my warrior just reached amnoon getting ready to start ascenion.. now the whole time i've been playing i've been selling everything thats not super speacial to the merchants... salvaging all the crap i can and hordeing money and materials..... this way when my guildies (not many of us but still) needs almost anything i have plenty to share... i'm one of the only character high enough lvl that uses axe to have any use for tyhe gold ones.. one of my bags is full of axes... but they'll get spread around when ore people make axe weildin warriors....
i personly have bought every armor upgrade in order of towns that have better than what i do... (ascalon then yak's then lion) when i reached sanctum cay i sunk Almost ALL my horded money on armor materials and 2 runes i lost when trying to resalvage them from my last set of armor... i was almost a plat short.. my guildies helped me.... when i get to drok i'll be working towards that armor.. thats part of the end game to me.. now that i've reached 20 it's not what do i do now it's oohh i have to ascend, get my 15k armor, and help my lower lvl guildies get where they have to go....
i think that a lvl cap on armor could be good or bad.... there is such a gap sometimes depending on when your charcter left searing.. hell i've been 20 since like riverside or bloodstone.. but was groupin with 15-17 lvls.... armor caps on the arena;s would be good i guess... but it's really not hurting anyone that badly is it???? other than in the arena's it's a moot point.....
and when i see peopel in henge (or past there) that are lvl 7 lfg or lookin to be run i just laugh reject and move on my own merry lil way
creston kungfu and zaku you all have the most valid points in this amusing thread i give you my props....
so uh kungfu wanna run my lvl 7 monk to drok? i need some l33t g34r... but i only have like 3 plat......

:EDIT: BEST IDEA SO FAR.... presear arena (i also did not know that it was a pvp thing till it was happeing it explain whe he talks but not really well enough pretty much i knew it was a test that i had to do well on lol)

Problem isn't so much for running to Droknor and skip half of game. The problem is there are ppl out there wearing Droknor's armor and beat hell out of everyone at level 10 and level 17 arenas. This is cheating to me. I have a lot of respect for those who run to Droknor BY THEMSELVES. But just how many do that by themselves without outside help?? I don't want Lornar's pass to be closed off, but I don't want people abuse the pass either.

agreed

The thing is we still have not yet, heard from anyone that has been abused by someone playing in the low lvl arenas. Or from a person that has done this. Why? Because there is not an accurate reporting system for Low lvl arenas, and no one has stepped forward to report this. I am against griefing, it is one of our Guild guidlines. You will never find one of my guild members doing something like this.

Although we will continue perfect our Draknor's, and lvl runs. Mind you we only do these runs for members who are on their 2nd-3rd character. First toon members we help thru all the missions and quests. Because there are game play skills and things you learn from playing the whole game thru we consider valueable. It is no good to have a person who just started the game and now they have a lvl 20 characer, and are like "Cool, Now what do I do?"

Yes, the exploitation of the armor is not good, but do not call for drastic game changes.

their is one downside, to the droknar's run. When Arena.net checks server stats, to see how well people are doing in areas after Beacons Perch, they will see that a lot of people are doing rather well, so will make those areas harder. Meanign those without the best armour in the game will eventually struggle.

yes, it's all well and good for those people with the armour, but when everythign after Kryta gets 10 times harder, who's fault will that be??

Arena Nets, if there wasn't so much grind nobody would really have to run to droknars. But that is a typical ANet fix

Seriously... if you play another game... say for example GTA or Driv3r. AFter you beat the game do you want to start over at the beginning and do it again? No, you want to do different things.

Granted my necro and monk are different from my ele, but the quests and missions are all the same. If I can get through to Droknar's forge first then that saves me time on missions I may not want to do and makes those missions easier for when I actually do them. (the jungle is the only area in the game that I don't enjoy... not because of poor design or anything like that, just my environmental preferences... therefore a good area but one I don't wish to spend a lot of time in)

if they just made an armor cap on the low level arena's all this problem would be solved... why should a PvE player complain about people rushing to the Forge? (except for the fact that it's hard to PUG out of Beacon, but not impossible)

When did the devs say that?

As for believing: I don't believe anything until I see it, and I don't trust anybody promising me something until I see the action.
Call it a bad attitude, but it comes from experience. I've been promised many things by people involved with GW (including players etc.).

I don't even think it's an exploit, because if it was, it would've been fixed by now.

GW pretty much reflects our social life in the real world.
Maybe even worse: it magnifies it.
There'll be always somebody with the money to buy things others have to put hard work into.
And there's always somebody who will treat you unfair, lie to you, scam you etc.

But there wouldn't be shadow, if there wasn't light.

So there are also people who treat you nice, listen to what you have to say, hand you gold items for free, answer your (stupid?) questions etc.

They're just the minority and you have to look really hard to find them.

I actually tried a forge run with my warrior @lvl 11 2 lvl 20 W/M where doing the run so I though what the hell, I was going to wait till I had hit level 20 before I attempted it.
Why because I have actually clocked over 200 hours and finished the game with 2 characters and opened up every area in the game world with both. Rather than doing the whole mission thing again I figured I'd try to open up as much as humanly possible without doing a single mission. I reached beacon with henchies but lvl 11 without doing a mission. So all those who think its cheating take a chill pill, Just because they say they can run to drognars doesn't mean they will be successful. As I found out.
A fair few of the people actually doing the run have actually already completed the game 1-4 times already.
Never ever pay a penny at beacons, If they say half at snake dance or half at camp rancor well atleast you are going to get your plats worth.
Those that do do wth run will also have 8+ plat in the bank, people with that much spare plat have so because they have finished the game.
It it far from cheating. The only part that is cheating is when a player abused the early arenas after getting the armours at Drognars Forge.
Then again if you really want to PvP wait till you are level 20 and start at the arenas in Lions Arch, as the arenas before there will mean unbalanced fights, where you will fight people who can be higher level than you, with better equipment and own you and you can do nothing about it. Or simple make a PvP character and jump in.

Actually that's the point, they can't. The only one that needs to make it is the lvl20 rusher the others will rez at each zone, that's how they get through. It is IMO an exploit.

The reason it affects other people is:

One they have an unfair advantage in low arenas. Now one might argue that the lower level arenas don't matter too much, but tell that to a new player who is eager to play and have fun in the arenas.

Two, it sorta screws up the economy because players have no need for mid level armor and the whole buy and trading experience of salvaging goods is lessened.

Three, encourages buying gold from gold sellers. If a person is too lazy to play through to get the armor, they are probably to lazy to farm the gold needed to buy thae armor. I'm sure for people with multiple characters it's easier, but if they have multiple character after only a couple of months they should have nop problem without being rushed

How's this for a twist to the game...

If you zone, anyone left behind as dead leaves the party and gets sent to the town of origin.

Wow... did you think on that before you said it? Maybe I'm the ONLY one who's lv18 E/Mo who I had gotten to Sanctum Cay... got rushed to Droknar by a guild leader so I could buy armor... actually farmed the materials for it myself? I've found a rare item indeed, me. I have multiple characters, the other 3 being so far behind they can't even farm. I farmed with my E/Mo, lv'd to 20 and have gained skill points since then, I farmed for droknar armor and then farmed all the materials needed to then get 15k armor. I've now been farming with my E/Mo and salvaging everything as I did before to get materials needed for my Ranger who I just got to droknar for armor.

As I see it since I don't PvP and I salvage/farm/sell a lot, being taken down the route from beacon to droknar is not going to effect the economy and certainly not all your ownage or lack of in the PvP battle areas.

I've finished the game with three characters, a warrior, monk and a ranger.

I'm planning for creating a nuker for FoW and UW. Why should i have to go though the entire storyline again?

I'd rather pay 6K to a runner than go though it all.
Watching Rurik die over again and watching King Ironhammer getting defeated by his evul cousin is boring.

Getting a runner for this is no problem to me.
With my 2nd and 3rd character i decided to get my character to forge in order to get better armor so that i wouldn't fail a mission due to insufficient armor.

Oh yes and BTW - Why does it bother you that people are getting run to forge for? IN NO WAY DOES IT EFFECT YOU. Your not PvPing hence it doesn't effect you.
IF they join your accended group at lvl 15 - you can KICK THEM. Problem solved.

I have (had) 3 lvl 20 chars and 2 of them had done the entire story. from char 2 i was run to Droknars. only for the armour. it has more than halfed the amount of money i have had to spend on armour and still i only have about 50g (not k notice). i have always tagged back on to the missions to lvl up because IMO it is more fun to get xp by doing missions (even those i have done 3 or 4 times before) than it is to wander around outside Droknars killing grawl.
Besides, Droknars is my favourite city (ascalon is boring, lions arch confusing, henge of denravi even more confusing and Amnoon i rarely spend more than 5 mins in)


would you consider a lvl 11 char in the ascalon Arena cheating?

In summary, along the lines of some of the other comments in this thread and elsewhere, I have no issue with runners providing that

1. There was a method to disallow running for the first character on an account, so that we don't have literal novices at later missions who have no or limited understanding of gameplay.
2. There was armor and weapon level restrictions on low level arenas.

Perhaps each area (kryta, desert, south shiverpeaks) needs to be unlocked sequentially once per account.

Other than that, its understandable that people may not wish to cycle through the entire map 4 times in succession.

That being said, the spin-off effect of runners is, in my opinion, that more and more people are doing less and less for themselves to progress in the game, which personally rubs me the wrong way. People are now being run through missions (elona, riverside, as examples), paying for party slots, etc.

But it's not my place to dictate how each person should play. I like to play through the game, even multiple times, and feel like I've earned each new map location or mission victory. But to each their own.

Wearing Droknars?

Yes.

no just 11 in ascalon stuff

Now you lost me. 11 is the approximate range of people in Ascalon (maybe slightly higher than average), so why would that even be considered cheating?

highest lvl in that arena is 10 but i lvl'd up in battle... some didn't like it.

Rushing might not be bad for people who have completed the game, but it does screw things up for people who first started playing. Rushing won't do much for them, as it costs about 3k to get rushed and it costs 7.5k for the Droknar armor, along with alot more for the materials to craft them. However, it does screw up all the missions in between. It makes it very difficult for a new player to find any groups because nobody is repeating any of the missions, and a large percentage of the players in any district at a given time isn't even looking for a party to play with (it would be cool if they had a district for people looking for PuG), they are content with speeding through the missions that gives skills are rewards with their Droknars armor and hench.

EDIT: I'm not saying that all the people who have already beat the game should be forced to grind through everything again, but make it so that it is rewarding to grind through everything again so people wouldn't mind doing it.

The cash bit I can agree with, but the rest simply doesn't make any sence to me.
PuG are the same weither or not the player has rushed to Drognars, The don't get any level advancement by getting the extra protection. They still may want to do the missions just like any other player, but with better defence.
Better armour doesn't protect you from poison arrows, imaginary burden and a vast majority of other skills used by the NPC enemies, if anything it reduces damage abit from physical and elemental attacks but it doesn't stop you getting hurt.
People have always speeded through missions thats just the way some people play and nothing to do with forge runners.
The only think that can be seen as negative it those that do the run just to PvP in the low level arenas.
As it stands you have to do some of the later missions anyway if you want to access areas such as tombs.

This is probably the most logical thing I've heard in this thread. Why would the game developers have put that trail there and not expect people to use it?

The arena argument is just a tad messed up... NO ONE is going to get Droknar's Armor before they "graduate" from the Ascalon Arena, even if run. The only other arena in which it MIGHT be relevant is the Shiverpeak Arena for levels 11-15. Obviously, you don't want to fight in arenas at the lowest level allowed... you'll get stomped by the higher leveled people. So that means this argument is valid for people levels 14-15. That's a rather insignifigant fraction of the players. As soon as you become level 16, you lose the right to complain (as you'll be battling PvP characters in top armor anyways). If you're level 13, you'd probably lose in the arenas anyways.

What did I do? My first character was in fact run to Droknar's forge. GASP! Then I noticed the rediculous prices on the armor. Ten times what you pay in Ascalon City for the half as powerful armor. So I went back to Kryta and played through the missions. Not only did I get the money and the materials, but I also got XP and Skills that I found very useful.

So the end result? I had Forge armor for the Ascension missions. Spiffy, no? Cheating, no? Oh yeah, and I managed to save some money by not spending it on the "not as good" armor in Kryta.

I see no problem with the Forge run.

it is very doable to get the forge armour before lvl 10. i have seen lvl 3s in both droknars and in the arena. usually they brag... a lot

hmm forge rushers arent stupid they are only trying to make a lifing hehe

The first time I played the game I didn't pay a forge runner becuase I wanted to try the whole game without cheating at all, and yes, I feel that if you do it your first time playing it's like playing a game the first time through with a mild form of a game shark.

But when i start a new character, I want to get forge armor the first thing. I want to get it done and over with. I want to be able to not HAVE to spend all that time and money to buy three seperate sets of armor that I will never use again.

I want to be able to go to Droknar's forge and sell silver dye to people who will say "ill by 4 50 gold" or some such.

I mean, really, with superior monk runes being 50k+ who wants to spend 20k+ on armor?

IMO,all they need is a armor restriction on the lowbie arenas.not meaning to offend anyone,but unless this is your first time pvping,you shouldnt even be in the lowbie arenas.all that shows is that you arent good enough to win against people who have skill.

You don't need to remove the run, you just need to put a level requirement on armor so people can't go back and grief in lower level arenas. It's not like you need the armor to make the PvE game easier to gather skills... its already pathetically easy.

I don't care if people say the lower arena areas don't matter... they're there to have fun in PvP... PvP is not just about earning Fame, its also about having fun. Nerf the loophole that allows someone to grief others.

I have to admit I paid a runner to run my 2 level 20 char. to DFto just check out the armor.I have yet to do my ascention missions want to do it with good group.I am in process of rebuilding my guild afeter loseing 3 officers to a fromer guildie becuase I told one of them a level 14 no at getting DF armor as he oly made his way to Beacons.He was leader of another guild and brought him into mine with no ?s.What he needed is to get his skills for the most part anyway it seems I spend my time helping guildies but now I am very wary about this.I don't see problem with an unascened level 20 player getting DF armor or 19.If I was playing in the arenas and sawa level 12 with DF armor and let say an elite skill then I am leaving.I have seen a level 9 with an elite skill.

OK, let me tell you a little story about me and Guild Wars... I am one of those players that you could call "dedicated" - maybe even "addicted"

I played all the way though the game with my first Wa/Mo and it was great fun and took a long time. Then i played through the whole game on my second char, a Mo/Me - it took less time but was more fun. This is the character I still play most of the time (in PvP & PvE).

Then I stepped from Pve to PvP and noticed not only how different from PvP the gameplay was but also how versatile all the different classes are - and i was hooked. I decided that i needed an Ele - so i created one, played through the tutorial, reached Post-Searing at level 6. I went through all the missions up to Lion's Arch and then a friend of mine suggested that we could fight our way from there via Temple Of the Ages to Sanctum Cay and skip all the Kryta missions. We did it and reached Sanctum Cay at level 13 and -60% death penalty... but we had a great time! We even did Sanctum Cay with henchies then and went to Augury Rock.
Of course nobody there wanted to invite a (by then) level 14 Ele/Mo. So I went back, got armor from the crafter outside of Sanctum Cay (best armor before Droknar's) and did all the normal missions and quest just so i could do the ascension missions at level 20.
I completed the game and still enjoyed it as much as with my first character.

The I created a Ra/Mo and for the first time hired a rusher to get me (level 6) from Beacon's Perch to Droknar's Forge. There I bought the armor and some skills and captured Poison Arrow in Witman's Folly. Then I went back to Beacon's and on to Lion's Arch. From there again to Sanctum Cay - this time without dying even once. By then I knew the game dynamics so well that I went to all three desert missions with henchies and completed Elona Reach and Dunes Of Despair with henchies. Ruined gameplay experience because of rushing?!? Man I never felt better playing Guild Wars than at that moment when I beat Elona Reach as a Beastmaster Ranger on level 16 with henchies only! I still needed human help for Thirsty River but found a group that took me when I told them that I had beat the other two missions already.

Next character: I didn't play the warrior for one minute since I bet the PvE part with it so i deleted it and created a Ne/Mo. Reached Droknar's at level 6, sanctum cay at level 11, Augury Rock at level 12. Then I did something that changed gameplay for me forever - I advertised for a low level group: "Building low level group for players who got here by pure skill - only level 17 or less!"
It took me about an hour to get the group up but then we (6 low level players - monk was only level14!) went to every outpost and mission place in record time and beat Elona (including bonus) and Dunes (without bonus) on first try. Sadly two of them had to go then and one was the monk. Don't think I have to elaborate on how 4 low lovel players didn't find another ele and a monk in Thirsty River
I completed the mission and bonus on the next day with my guildmates without anyone ever dying.

Two days ago I bought a second copy of Guild Wars because I once again ran out of character slots... Now I have a new warrior who is about 24 hours old now (real time, not playtime), level 12, wearing Droknar's Armor and ready for the fight from L.A. zu Sanctum Cay tomorrow.
I can't stay the missions like The Wilds or Bloodstone Fen - but trying to get ascened as fast as possible is still alot of fun to me.
Next mission will be to get a level 1 character out of Pre-Searing, run him/her all the way from Ascalon to Beacon's Perch (without any missions), get rushed to Droknar's, reach Ascension (all 3 missions done) at level 10.

So did rushing to Drokanr's ruin my gameplay experience? No - it enhanced it, when PvE was starting to get boring - because I could do new things with Droknar's armor!
Did it ruin your gameplay experience? No - because you never invited my low level characters into your party (which probably would've been better than sticking to players who need 7 tries for every mission...). I also never fought in that freakin' Ascalon Arena - PvP with less than 200 Attribute Points is a bad joke...

So please spare me any further "you ruin the/my gameplay experience" threads! It's entirely up to each player how he/she decides to play the game - and don't tell me that playing all the same missions 6 times with 6 charaters is more fun than what I did...
I didn't even get rushed because buying the endgame armor is cheaper than bying new armor every two outposts... I have more than enough money... All my characters have at least 2 sets of 15k armor, most of them 3 or 4...
I did it for fun!

*passes out tissues to all the complainers against forge runners*

I believe it will be nerfed as well. Then for MY FUN, I can't wait to come back here and put it in the face of all those "leets" that have posted in this thread giving rediculous stupid reasons why it should remain the same.

As I recall playing DIABLO 2 either online or offline, one didn't nor could start out with "leet" gear, had to have skill points into certain catagories to be able to wear/use all of the leet armors/items/weapons and that's the way it should be in GW's as well. I don't care how many characters you play, you shouldn't be able to wear/use leet items/gear until a certain required level.

So come on A-Net/Devs bring the FUN of Diablo 2 into this game. As it is now, it's not much fun playing in Ascalon/Yak's Bend arenas without having to resort to playing like the runners do and running to get our own leet armor. I want balanced arenas without having to run to get to that point.

My suggestion though is to just remove the door from Beacons Perch to Lornars Pass. Put in a Mission from Thunderhead Keep to Droknars instead and require the character to be ascended. That'll fix that.

I will continue running until anet says it is an undesputed evil

untill then, eat my dust

Diablo 2 was the first place i saw concerted power leveling. You fail for being totally wrong.

yeah In D@ i couild get to lvl 30ish within 2 days easy

How about Anet does is it only unlocks armor crafter by ascending!That would get the job done as if for the people that got forge already...they can still wear it but you will have 0 armor+ hahah that would work greatly.

EDITk howd this discussion go to a different game lol.