Droknar's Rushers

Same... Mesmer runes are cheap, but i'm not going to change them 3x over just because I have to get new armor over and over. I'm not getting the armor to pick on other people in arenas, i only REALLY pvp once im lvl 20. If you're lvl 9 in droknars, you either won't get invited to any parties, or you'll do so horrible that it's pointless to stay there. Does it really disgust you that much to see the number 10 Next to R/Me as your standing in droknars? If it does, then your taking the game too seriously.

.. and you can, too! My R/W (switched back to R/Mo..), can make the run 90% of the time. Sometimes, due to his lack of Endure Pain, (or the full benefit of it), he can't make it through certain areas where monsters, (namely Avicara/Siege Ice Golems/Tundra Giants), have spawned too close to one another.

That's alot of parentheses.. anywho, perhaps you'll have better luck than I on those mobs. :P

Well from my point of view you sounds like are playing the game...as intended. And if anything you should upset that there are people that abuse the system.

I wouldn't get upset. Just if you exploit the game to get there...j/k

Isn't that a typical pompous ass attitude?
I'd like to buy a clue for 100gp otherwise, your grace.

Tal

If you want to start a thread whining about how people are getting rushed to Droknar's, by all means go ahead. Now I know this thread has gotten completely off-topic, but don't come in here just to play high & mighty and moan about how your "opinion of the Guild Wars population continues to sink daily", and then go on and make up a story about fighting through Lornar's Pass with only henchmen without a single screenshot. Hell, I took a screenshot when I got through Lornar's to the very next area, and that was with a full crew, fighting and dying. We never made it past that area, but I still took a screenshot.

There's no question anyone who has multiple characters and spent hundreds of hours completeing quests really enjoys this games really earned what they have...No doubt.

So what does it say that people who found away to get everything the same way in the fraction of the time by exploiting?

You know saying that this is your umteenth character is just an excuse, not a reason. I'm sorry but do you think a new character looks at a person who is level 10 with high end armor and says- "wow that person is on thier 10th character he deserves it", or do they say "wow he must have paid a person, why do I need to bother playing through the game?"

I am far from being holier than thou, but it would be nice to play Guild Wars and future chapters without having to feel like I can't get a group or participate in PvP just cause I'm not doing the latest trick to get ahead.

Actually, I think someone who's new to game sees endgame armor and says "wow, nice!" or "what the hell is that?"

Well I was in Piken and there were plenty of people telling me where to get it and how much it would cost...nice.

I guess that didn't come off the way I wanted it. It was my attempt to lighten the discussion a bit.

Wow, I read this entire thread and I just have to say I'm amazed at the spectrum of ignorance vs. intelligence.

Not to be arrogant, but I think the majority of you all need to sit back and think a moment about your arguments. Guild Wars has, at its core a few distinct differences than many other MMOs. First, the skill system. A lvl 10 character with end-game armour is NOT going to have the skillset required to be competitive in the arenas that require end-game armour. So, the only advantages said character gains are the *possibility* of "pwning" newbies in PUG arenas, better survivability in the storyline missions and skill missions, and perhaps a feeling of pride that they have that armour, whether that feeling is justified or not is irrelevant.

It always amazes me that so many people feel like the actions of others can somehow cheat them of their play value, for example, a lvl 20 Ascendant with end-game armour somehow feels cheated because a few hours old lvl 10 has the same armour, even though the lvl 20 could easily crush the lvl 10 in hand to hand combat regardless of skill useage, not to mention the fact that the lvl 20 player has more experience in actual play, has the skills necessary to compete, and in general just knows how the game works more.

Besides, because of this *one* debateable exploit, its being advocated that the mechanics of the game be changed? I can guarantee that its a lot more difficult than simply flipping a switch on the servers to "Off." Also, in several posts, I saw argued that what the problem is is the intent behind the rushing... think about that. So now we're going to change the game to protect against the possibility of bad intentions on something that doesn't affect anyone... REALLY in the long run at all?

Please.

Sorry if I don't quote you Kaleban because it is alotta text. But it is an excellent point you make, and I probably am guilty of being one makes too much out of something.

But I don't think its ignorance vs intelligence...it's denial Firstly you would agree I have a in the very least debateable exploit. If you notice most people gloss over it by saying thing like: "It's there", "I've played 3 characters why should I play from the beginning", and my personal favorite "It's my game I'll play the way I want." Actually you can't play the way you want because you are bound by the EULA. ..and you're a licened user along with lots of others

This is a discussion forum you are free to pick and choose which topics you want to. so if you want to say I'm full of crap that's cool, but I will respond.
(not you, but anyone) ..I just wish there would be actual point made to the exploit not the reasons why they do it.

Sorry that was rude of me.

Doing away with automatic level 20 after the mirror match closed a true "exploit." The Lornar's rush, however, is not one.

There are only a few minor benefits from getting rushed:

1. Advantage over other players in minor league PvP arenas. Sure, as a tank they may take a few more blows to kill, but given the random nature of arenas there's little guarantee that the fancy armor will assure victory. I'd rather have a skilled 10th level player on his 3rd character than a 1st Timer decked in the best armor because the 10th level player is likely good at the game. Does anybody consider THAT an advantage? Against a group of first Time players I'd consider it a HUGE advantage.

2. Bragging rights that they could afford to pay someone to rush them and that they could still afford to buy better armor afterwards, just to impress newer players. Veteran players wouldn't really bat an eyelash. Level 20's lurking in Fort Ranik are probably just as likely to get asked what the fancy armor is. And if the intent of that person was to get armor just so they can laugh at the question of "where'd you get that?" then let's re-examine if that person is even worth getting upset about.

3. Slight edge in dealing with mid-game monsters. This is about the main reason I can think of. Increased survivability during missions and quests is helpful, not just for the individual but for everyone in the party. If you think that somehow your "challenge" is being cheated by someone who survives too well, then consider that in any given mix of players you may also end up with some who are well below the curve of the "average" player that you're trying to make up for. You ever been in a party where a level 20 joined up because he was looking to do bonus because he missed it his first Time through? Did you tell him "no, get out" because he's TOO powerful? Or did you leave?

The drawbacks are many, such as lack of skills, too low to join parties, lack of attrib points/hitpoints, lack of experience, etc. I'll spare the details as to why there are drawbacks, but they're more "drawbacks" than the benefits are "benefits."

For those who consider rushing Lornar's some sort of exploit for any reason, I'd say just chill out. What's the big deal. Let them do it if they want. If your grudge is simply that they can do it for the sake of doing it, seriously get over it.

I see not many benefits of being rushed..If someone wnts to go to drokanr's at low level, fine let them..I generally dont group with low levels fro teh missions down ther anyway and I doubt anyone does...so tehy have superior armor? so what?
As soon as tehy hit te lion's arch arena where everyon more or less has competitive armor (not to mention elite skills) tehy will not have any edge anyway.
I have never been impcacted by people being ran to droknar's..so I dont see how this can be an exploit since it doezn't give them an advantage ..It might even put tehm at a disaadvantage b/c're skipping all teh misisons and quests

sigh..Both of the last posts are good points about whether it really matters or not that people have endgame armor at low levels. But unfortunately does not address the exploit itself. Once again it's not the point and does not make it any more or less of a exploit.

Another poster put it very well, so here's his take on it:
"The thing people are considering an exploit is the porting of dead companions from one portal to the next, when the runner goes through. Many would have no problem with this trip if the lowbies could make it from one portal to the next alive. The fact that they can't, but because of game mechanics are automatically rezzed seems cheap."

On a unrelated parallel issue: You know bot don't really affect me cause I make plenty of money not to really care, yet I am totally against them.. does this mean I shouldn't be concerned about bots?

That's not an exploit. That's a key feature of the game. Don't you remember the Northern Wall mission? It specifically tells you that it only matters if one person gets to the destination.

That's one mission!!!...rofl At the very end no less. Tell me, do people advertise and charge people to do that?
but you did stay on topic

dear god, ok I give up you win

Ok my opinion, rushing is fine. Why?

1. The people who are complaining they are ruining the lower level arenas are the same ones who brag and say that low lvl arenas are the "fischer price" of PvP.

2. It gets rid of those tedious kryta and maguuma missions and allows a experienced person (experienced because no newbie can afford the ~4k to get someone to rush) to get the final armor instead of wasting money on cheaper versions. This is offset by the fact that they are going to have to go back anyways to get skills.

3. The PvE section according to some, is the tutorial for the game. Already finished the PvE section? Then you dont need to go through the tutorial again.

4. Why else would they put the shortcut in the game? For lvl 20 ascended characters to go from droknars to beacons? No. For a challenge? No, thats what UW and FoW are for. For items? No, its not very good at that.

5. If they are going to stop allowing this, they might as well set a lvl limit on all the missions and areas. They also might as well remove the path from Divinity coast -> Beetlerun -> Temple of the Ages -> Fishermans Haven -> Sanctum Cay because I just solo ran that path with my lvl 14 W/Mo and skipped all the annoying missions.

I know I would have never created my W/Mo or my N/Me if I could not run the shortcuts. The missions are too tedious for no gain (I dont need to relearn the game mechanics) and I really dont want to go through the whole Ascension mess again. The game starts at lvl 20 right? So then who cares how I get there. I am at the same level as everyone else in the end right?

i say its fine to rush to droknars
i recently paid someone to rush my monk there
theres a few reasons why i did
1. i beat all the missions with my ranger and i didnt want to do them again, because since i already beat them, i know what to do to beat them again, which makes them alot easier and for me, really boring, theres no point in playing the game if its going to be boring
2. i wanted some of the skills in that area
3. i wanted something that could be a challenge, i thought that doing the missions in that area with a lvl 12 character would be hard, and if its even slightly difficult, it becomes more enjoyable for me

well let me tell you what happened
i got to droknars and paid the guy
then i take some henchmen and run to the ice caves
someone in there says something like "oh my god theres a lvl 12 in ice caves, how the hell did she get here"
someone else says im a stupid lazy noob that paid to get there and im looking to leach of off the other players
when really, im there to do the mission with HENCHMEN, not players
i did say i would go with some other players to show them the way, but when i said that, i was attacked immediately for being a dumbass noob that was trying to leach off of others work
so i give up on them, entered the mission, and got through it easily
i was real disappointed though, it wasnt a challenge at all
later on im going to do iron mines and thunderhead
hoping those will be harder

..... ......

People are stupid in all walks of life and all games. 99% of all stupidity in guildwars PUG's is the innability of some people to listen and play as a team. It will ALWAYS be this way, and is precisely why suicidal henchmen AI is actually superior to 90% or more of guildwars players because they listen to what you tell them to do.

Rusher's do not make people stupid, that's the worst argument ever.

As for rushing, its a mild advantage second time around, it does not make a bad player good or a good player bad. So get off it even mattering, Most people are stupid if you didn't get that to begin with.

I dont nessisarily have a problem with rushing, when a player gets so frustrated with a level and just gets another player rush thenm through the level... that said I do have a problem with rushing through low level players. I got caught with some low level players in some of the higher level maps, where all they wanted was a group to kill one enemy so they can go up half a level. If you want to help a friend reach level 20 as fast as possible, thats fine but don't leach of players like me who ACTUALLY WANT TO PLAY THE LEVEL (sorry I'm on a bit of a tear as a person really cheesed me of in the Fisure of Woe, mostly they were really annoying)

ooh yeah I went with him/her. very nice rusher

It can be run alone. It is typically done in groups, however, because people will pay to go. Yes, I believe someone who has run people has really no need of other bodies in there.

why do i get the feeling none of the "anti-rushing" crew has infused multiple sets of armor yet?

oh wait, is rushing the seer ok? it is? but rushing elsewhere is an exploit?

If you're referring to infusing different pieces of armor, like gloves, shoes, robes etc, it's no longer necessary with a recent patch.

that doesnt change my point at all though. was it an exploit to rush the seer when you had to take 5 trips per set, per char?

What's the point again of doing this? I've still missed it.

The armor that isn't needed until you get there? It's nice to have, but it doesn't prevent you from grouping. And you're still at the mercy of your group's cooperative play, regardless of your AL.

Or is to skip all the skill quests to make your alt that much more painful?

I still don't get why anyone would want to be rushed there. I get the people rushing it, and good for them. Not the people paying to go.. or even wasting the time going for free.

I dont think it's an exploit, because of the way i think of exploits, they are using a bug in the game to benefit yourself.

If this area was made and implemented into the game which is a direct link between Beacon's Perch and Camp Rankor (N of Droknar's) surely the dev's saw that lvl 20s would start helping guild mates do the run to get their low level characters to droknar's


However, I still dont see the point in rushing your player to Droknar's it's not like it's the insta-level 20 town or anything...

Calling it an exploit is hypocritical unless your amish, and I doubt many amish people have the internet. You use stuff you bought to save your time and allow you to spend more of it doing things you enjoy. Why shouldn't others?

Wouldn't it be best then to put the mission into an obligatory chain.
Mission 2 can't be started, until mission 1 has been finished etc.
Maybe by getting some kind of untradable item. e.g. You start a mission with Price Rurik, and he sais: show me the sigil of whatever to prove your worthynes.
That way, people could run across lomar's pass and still wouldn't be able to do missions that are not in sync with the story line.

"That way, people could run across lomar's pass and still wouldn't be able to do missions that are not in sync with the story line."

I don't think they would care. Ring of Fire has some elites, true, but you can get plenty of stuff around Droknar and back at desert. No missions needed for that.

The second half of this thread cracks me up. We arguing over what is and is not acceptable in a game where everyone does what they want depending on what they consider fun. And we have others telling them they are wrong for it.

My level 15 toon (which by the way lives on a raid 5 array somewhere on A-net's server farm) bought the armor and the skills then went back and is currently going through the rest of the game. This is my 3 character overall and my first to get the armor and skills pre-desert.

Argue over it all you want, continue to feed my amusement but all in all you are arguing over nothing.

"Argue over it all you want, continue to feed my amusement but all in all you are arguing over nothing."

And same to you. I'm sure desert is very challenging with Forge armor. This is one thing I don't understand, people getting superior armor to make game easy - like it's difficult at all.

making the game linear would ruin Guild Wars

I can't see how. Or I should say the obvious answer just doesn't seem valid IMO.

Anet has said that you can pick and choose what missions you would like to do. They do not have to be done in a certain order and you do not have to do any untill you want in the desert. If you had to do every mission there would not be interconnected explorable areas. The reason it would ruin the game is because once you finish the missions once your done. There is nothing else to do because you just got rid of explorable areas to make a linear mission based coop online game.

To the discussion
My reasons why I'm having my monk/warrior <4th character the other three are done with the game.

Skills a couple of the skills I want are there.
Armor <- not for the AL, I want it so I can put my runes in it.
I don’t group in pugs, so it doesn’t matter what AL I have. I don't play in random arenas so again it doesn’t matter. I'm not going there to skip any missions. The main reason I'm going there is because I want the skill everything else is just a bonus.

Do I care if you hate forge runners? No
Do I care if you think it's an exploit? No
What I do care about is you saying you know why everyone wants to be run. Throwing out misconceptions and stereotypes is not an argument worth reading.

I wonder if you can separate people on this issue into two camps:

1) People who when they come upon a lane closure in traffic wait in line in the lane that continues on as traffic slows.

2) People who drive past them all and merge over just before their lane closes.

Those late mergers say, well we really aren't hurting anybody, I have waited in that line before and don't need to wait again, I will drive the way I want to

Those people in line think, well its not that fair for them to get to skip waiting in line like the rest of us are. This line would move much faster if they just waited in line like us.

You can decide which camp on both issues you are in

difference here is that it's not a line...

And there's also a third camp of people on motercycles who weave in and out of the lanes and even choose to drive on the grass for while cuz the view is nicer and it's less polluted.