Levels, leveling, level caps, and level 20

i do understand it is always the same 20 v 25 25 v 30. I do understand i guess my problem is that i am a gamer that likes to level i don't mind grinding but i also assume other players will be nice to newbies and help them so i do see your point i would just like a cap so that it would also appeal to my needs i now that sounds selfish just try to see it from my point i am not asking for you to say ia m right we can agree to disagree

Hate to break it to ya, but the only thing that comes into my mind when I level is, Now back to the city, need more skills.

Nothing about more health, nothing about more energy. And still I've beaten guys 3 levels higher then me in the Arena. I wouldn't say the Arena is newbie crushing.

Edit: First of all, if your so crazy about leveling. Play WoW, FFXI or EQ2. This really isn't your kind of game. Since the cap isn't changing, many sources have confirmed this. Even our godly administrators.

Your so wonderful THX!

And, can we stop argueing, I hate it.

If you've never shelled out $15 a month to play a game, I am going to assume you've never played an MMORPG. There are some games where a high level cap work, like WoW and EQ. GW is not one of those games. If you had ever played any of those games, you would realize why it's not going to be one of those games. In WoW, it can easily take you over 20 days PLAYED, meaning 20 days straight of playing 24/7 to reach the level cap. And then what do you do? You fight monsters higher than you. In GW, you hit 20. And then what do you do? You fight monsters higher than you. It's the same thing, with less carpal-tunnel.

-Virt

I would like to see it so that I could add more att pts. into my secondary skill. It would make my char work better so that I could go out into the world alone. It would make My PvE better. I do not care if it still said lvl 20 just more att pts.

ok so you reach the cap so if the cap stays and i say yeah then will you have the possibilty of getting spells that do more damage like for an elementalist that uses fire with the new expansions

that sounds good just give attribute points so that you can level up other parts of you strentgh or what have, but then when people see that your a level 20 they wouldn't know that technicly your a level 99 with all your attribute points.

But you have to understand that the world is currently balanced for the characters the way they are now. If you were to become more powerful it would trivialize much of the content in the game. For example, in WoW, you hit max level and that's it. You don't get any more powerful, except for with gear. If they were to allow you to increase even your secondary skills it would make your character much too powerful. For example, I have many builds where my secondary skills are more important than my primary skills.

-Virt

I have to agree with Virt on that one.

i agree with you guys, but what i am looking at is won't it get boring after running around for a yar or 2 being level 20

I am sure there will be new classes, or at the very least, new skills to try out and new monsters to slay.

-Virt

Actually I wont care being 20 for 80 years, as I said: "Leveling isn't anywhere near as good as being a good player or getting a great skill"

If I get bored, I'll simply try a new proffession. And there will be exspansions every 6~8 months which will add a plethora of new stuff.

Ok both good points. I do see what you are saying. I will still play even if the cap stays. I love the game. I just wanted to see what others thought. I do appreciatte your input. I will still play and i will look foward to being able to get new skills and weapons.

/cheer

Pat yourselves on the back!

We have sucessfully converted someone to the good side!

I would still like to see an increase in cap but i will still play. I won't let that stand in my way it doesn't bother me that much i can see the pros and cons from bothe sides. But i would like to see it but it won't keep me from playing or enjoying.

...

...

We still have a little work to do.

Oh man I'm praying that people don't make a fuss to the developers to raise the level caps. There is purely no reason to when the game is centered on "How you PLAY with your skill combinations and what not." I haven't PvP much, but my goal is not to reach level 20, but to better my understanding of the system and to create a build that "wows" people. I hate the mindstate of people walking by seeing a level 70 player with their level 70 gear and people admire it, because of how long they played. Raising the skill cap only increases the time it takes to finally reach the max level "fun" spot. There is no reason to raise the level cap to increase max hp and energy and more attribute points.

Like my cardgame comparison. It's like saying "geez when will tournaments allow us to bring in more cards per play instead of just 40 card limit."
There is no reason to because the limit is what makes the game strategic.

For those that do feel not to PvP after you reach level 20. What the developer's "could" do is develop some sort of system of "events" or some sort of way for PvE's feel as if in a roleplay environment. Thus encouraging roleplaying. However nice it seems I don't see it happening as their main concern is competition and balancing.

For those that PvE mostly (which includes me), but however want a new goal after reaching level 20. I think probably the expansions and updates will add more unique clothing and items like weapons that you'd quest for.
Seriously, you don't need to be leveling in order to feel satisfied and happy that you've accomplished something.

Leveling to make yourself think your character got that much better with more hp and energy and attributes doesn't make sense when the game is based on making sure that you learn more about the way skills and combinations work so that you yourself can become better and improve through your own wits and skills. I left all the grinding games because of the unneeded leveling. That is why I'm loving GuildWars so far and I'm hoping down the road it doesn't become a game that I talk bad about later.

Kiwi i don't know if i will ever be totally one side or the other, but i do see both. I do appreciatte your input and or not getting mad at my point of view.

Anger wont help conversion. Peace will.

I like what you said. I just wish it was easier to find a good group to join when you party i always seem to find the ones that don't know how to do their jobs like a monk/warrior that stand toe to toe instead of healing his fellow party members.

Did I sound angry in my post? ehehe if so then sorry

Hey if you two want i can give you my character name if you ever wnat to join up and party together.

No i think he was refering to what i wrote earlier.

Sure that'll be fine, However my girlfriend tends to like to play just with me and her and the henchmen's. So our strategies mainly include working with henchmen and its going good.

Dak, just a tip. Dont double post, do edit post. It's kinda again'st the rules.

double post? i clicked on quote if that is wrong my bad. I know i clicked on submit and it didn't do anything so i clicked again. Ok my Bad.

Well you can edit then type the QUOTE command.

well i am out i gotta go to work tomorrow. Peace

ok thank you

lol... another double post...
its fine its fine

^^ good job their genius (dak)

If you really want to have your level go above 20 just do this simple formula
the number of skill points you have recieved - number of missions you have completed + 1 = your actual level.

Also think about this. You reach lvl 20. You continue to gain exp and when you level after 20 you simply gain a skill point and some refund points. Now the ammount of exp needed to level the next time keeps getting higher and higher with each level like it did for lvl 1-20 right?

Now what happens when they automatically open the cap further, 1 of 2 things. They just take your psudo level and you automatically become the new caped level. (yippie a higher cap but you still are capped ) or you are still level 20 but the exp needed to be gained for the next level is similar to someone going for level 50 or 60. Now i know that the exp needed to gain skill points past 20 will most likely even out after a while, but it will still go up for a while.

One final point for all you doubters still out there. If they raise the lvl cap i'm assuming you will want some kind of significant gain for your leveling commitment (ie: more HP, atribute points). You do realize the devs will have to rebalance the entire game again and then agian for each expansion pack (assuming you would like an increase with each installment).

Gosh people frustrate me with their questions and their pop music. I'm gonna go live on an island with a T3 connection and become a hermet. Look for me next BWE, i'll be Kermit The Hermit.

I say maybe. So I put the after teh expansions one. I mean after a while there could be new areas recomended for liek you know level 20's and some that go liek higher so tehy can level up. Move the cap to like, 30, 35, 40?

One of the nice things about having the level capped at 20, which you reach relatively quickly in the game is that it allows the developers to balance the entirety of the game(40+% I would estimate) to be balanced for level 20 characters. If they raise the level cap, most of these areas will never be played again, because they don't give a challenge for level 20 characters.

I'll take an example from Diablo 2, as I'd assume most people here have at least tried out that game. Before the expansion, act 4 hell was the place that everyone played, because it was challenging for high-level characters- there was no real point in playing anywhere before act 4 hell because it was all under you. With the LoD expansion, they opened up act 5, and all of a sudden, nobody played any of act 4, except just the bare minimum to get through it. Act 5 was now the place to be, because act 4 was under everybody's characters.

Take this into the GW world. Assume with release, they have 10 missions and 20 explorable areas(just numbers I pulled out of thin air) that are all balanced for level 20 characters. Then they release an expansion which raises the level cap to 30 and introduces a bunch of areas for level 30 characters. Now, who's going to bother spending time in any of those missions that are all balanced for level 20 characters? They'll be too easy now that people level to 30- it would be like running parties of level 20 characters through Ascalon. All of the work that the developers put into creating those areas has now been made obsolete- nobody will spend any more time there than they need to in order to get to the new level 30 areas.

GW is based around having a lot of content to do at high levels, rather than being based around leveling. Getting to level 20 is just getting your character up to the point where they can start playing the "real stuff". If they raise the level cap, all the "real stuff" that they create basically just gets thrown in the trash. If they don't raise the level cap, they can add lots and lots of content balanced for level 20 characters, and you just get an ever-increasing amount of challenging content that's fun to play for people at max level.

Did you read this thread at all or did you just pressed "Reply" to enlighten us all with your prodigious post?

Y'know, I'm seeing this crop up a lot, maybe we should compile a list of all the pro and con arguements into an article, then when the next time comes in asking about the level cap we can say "Go check this page, if you have something that's not there post it and we'll debate it". Or something.

Just a thought.

Dave III

You see, Dave III, this is not the first, not the second and not the tenth post about level cap. The problem is that people who write such posts do not bother to use the Search function. Yes, this thread spawned great 'for's and 'against's, but there were other threads before it.

Uh, yeah, that was my point. There have been a LOT of these posts, so why not compile them into one big article and put them in a prominant location on the main website for everyone to peruse, and when someone else (not "if", "when") comes along and asks about it, we point to the article and say "read this". If they've got something new to add (unlikely, but possible), THEN we can debate it in the thread.

Like I said, it was just a thought.

Dave III

I wrote this thread a while ago, yet there are still posts asking things which are answered here. I doubt compiling a big thread would do more than make the moderating team work on it.

There is no need to require you to lvl up with hp and attribute raises just to face a consistent challenge. There will be plenty of new skills in new expansions to keep you interested and it is perfectly easy to keep a consistent challenge even with you at lvl 20. If you want lvls higher than you, then they can just throw lvl 25's and 30's at you.

I have found the biggest proponents of raising the level cap are those people who are aquianted with traditional MMOGs and therefore they expect a "high" level to characters. The look at level raising as part of the game. With GuildWars the goal of the game, at least to me, is PvP or GvG, and World at War, which I still don't get. I have given up on my co-workers and I don't try to explain the differences between GuildWars and other MMOGs.

I don't need a level cap because after I get to 20, it is time for PvP or GvG if I can get enough people in the Guild I lead to get involved with GvG aspect of the game.

Badenstein.

WoW is for casuals. Try LA2 or EQ if you want to level for a year or two.

Diablo 2 - 99 levels, for free

300-350 hours should be enough for most players, it's faster than 480 hours.