Levels, leveling, level caps, and level 20 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Genosha

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

Cowville, CA.

24 Mar 2005 at 21:04 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mss Drizzt

I would like to see it so that I could add more att pts. into my secondary skill. It would make my char work better so that I could go out into the world alone. It would make My PvE better. I do not care if it still said lvl 20 just more att pts.

Okay maybe I missed something, but you can go do missions and explore without anything but a little hired help. I did it this last BWE as my goal. I was really supprised when I scored 2 bottle of ink, a full inventory, 1000g. & 3 new locations on my map that were in the middle of nowhere.

... Oh and before you say i'm a level 20, i'm not, i'm only a meger 15 and started from level 1 and worked up. In fact I believe that my character has 30 + hours on it at least with the BWE. I may not be the best PvP but there is nothing like exploring on your own without the clutter of people.

dakyd

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

24 Mar 2005 at 21:15 - 82

I am torn i want to level, but i understand why they have the cap. I just don't really care anymore. I just love to play andd find new stuff and new areas

dakyd

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

24 Mar 2005 at 21:16 - 83

how do you do the picturs under your name? i know dumb question

Genosha

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

Cowville, CA.

24 Mar 2005 at 21:21 - 84

User CP>Edit Avitar>Has to be this size or smaller>
100 by 100 pixels or 19.5 KB

And yes that is my Character in the game.(Needs updating my armor is blue now

)

That's the idea but think of it this way every charcter is different. Some are fast, some slow, some can take a beating and keep on ticking (Which I have seen 1st hand and we called him GOD until we went our seprate ways). So what is your goal and how would you like to play before you get to level 20? I myself am horrible at PvP but get me on a mission and it's all good!

Scaper-X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

San Francisco, CA Custom Title: Ninja Filmmaker

Agony Guild [Agny]

W/Mo

24 Mar 2005 at 23:55 - 85

Asked all too many times.

No.
-- Scaper-X

dakyd

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

24 Mar 2005 at 23:57 - 86

i am great at pve not so good at pvp.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

25 Mar 2005 at 00:04 - 87

no raise

William of Orange

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

La Crosse, Wisconsin

Thousand Tigers Apund Ur Head, The Consulate

25 Mar 2005 at 00:37 - 88

With the way that I think the expansions will be set up, you shouldn't be getting bored with any of the game content, since you will be getting new quests and missions each time that an expansion is released. Also, there's nothing wrong with going through the same missions multiple times; last Beta Event, I did some of the same missions two or three times to either gain more experience or to just help some of my friends/guild mates get through those levels if they were having a hard time finding a party to do them with. Although I'm not yet at level 20, and only reached The Wilds before the event ended, I'm sure that there would be many different missions which you could do a multiple times just because they're 1) fairly difficult, even at level 20, and 2) because the challenge makes the game all that more fun.

There are hundreds of quests that you'll be able to do in conjunction with doing missions to get further in the game. Even after you have "finished" the game, you can always go through and try to find yourself some nice rare weapons, which will lengthen your gaming experience indefinitely, since you never really know exactly when those coveted rare items will be dropped, and even more scarce because if you're in a party of 6 or 8 people, you're not guaranteed to be dropped a rare item that is reserved for you.

So basically, you won't get bored, no matter what you guys may think. Peace out.

Lunarhound

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

25 Mar 2005 at 02:24 - 89

I am primarily a PvE player, and I simply don't see the need to raise the level cap. I am absolutely baffled by the idea so many people seem to have that without levels to gain, there's nothing to do in PvE. Levels mean nothing in Guild Wars, in the end. Yes, you grow stronger, but the monsters you fight grow proportionally stronger so there's no change in gameplay. The effect on gameplay comes through gaining new skills, which has nothing to do with levels to begin with. The illusion of improvement you'd get through gaining levels after 20 would be just that: an illusion. You'd be doing the same things you'd be doing if the cap had never been raised (completing missions and gaining skills) but with the additional grind of having to gain levels just to keep up with everyone else and remain competitive should you wish to PvP.

There is absolutely 0 reason to ever raise the level cap. It will add absolutely nothing to the game and frustrate people who want any friends they convert to the game to be able to quickly get to the point where they can aventure together. Players would be forced to grind away just to keep up with the higher attribute and hp caps, and the strength of monsters would increase exponentially, so the gain would mean absolutely nothing except that the number of monsters who are below your level and don't give you experience would grow enormously.

I wish some of the people who keep asking for a raise to the level cap, eventual or not, would stop and actually think about what that would mean. I'll say it one more time: Levels are there as a way to ease people into their characters and let them choose specializations gradually. Nothing more. Any sense of real improvement through levels is 100% illusion.

I've never reached level 20, so someone fill me in... After 20, do you still have an experience bar that fills up, and get a skill point every time it does? Because if not, maybe they need to implement that, since so many people seem to think there's nothing to do if they don't have a bar to watch.

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

25 Mar 2005 at 03:08 - 90

I hope they never make the level cap go any higher than 20. And they aren't planning to. It restricts nothing except for the amount of grind and imbalances possible.

Lansing Kai Don

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2005

Kansas

25 Mar 2005 at 03:13 - 91

It has been my suggestion in the past and I still think it's a good one... to give some kind of notice to players that have played guild wars and are devoted die-hard fans..but not very good at games lol

ok maybe that last part was added, but for those gamers that don't got game

Anyways make levels after 20 dummy levels... nothing gained by them. And give the person a different colored baldric or sash or something that signifies the level but has no armor attributes.

Or Forget the levels, and do it off of map percentage discovered/missions completed/ time spent playing/ you know some form of stat... just to help those that have been there. Or give a different colored one every month, and only those of us from the very beginning get the bright pink one

jk

Lansing Kai Don

Genosha

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

Cowville, CA.

25 Mar 2005 at 05:40 - 92

Quote:

and only those of us from the very beginning get the bright pink one

jk

Lansing Kai Don

I don't do pink!

j/k

Mss Drizzt

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

communist state of NJ

25 Mar 2005 at 05:45 - 93

What about Lavender.

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

25 Mar 2005 at 05:58 - 94

Or violet?

BlackArrow

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2005

25 Mar 2005 at 06:01 - 95

I don't ever want the level cap to go up. Lvl 20 is perfect for GW. What I would like to see is a simple counter in your stats (attribute panel is fine) that tells you how many skill points you've earned past lvl 20. Theorectically I could just never buy a skill again after lvl 20 and count that way, or keep track in my head, but I want more skills and I don't want to have to keep track in my head.

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

25 Mar 2005 at 06:09 - 96

There was once a Skill Points and "Skill Points earned" counter.

Genosha

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

Cowville, CA.

25 Mar 2005 at 06:13 - 97

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mss Drizzt

What about Lavender.

MAD I TELL YOU MAD....
Why don't you just be honest you want to say fuchsia.

As for level Caps I played this game Dark Eden 1 day there were no lvl 100's a week later 80% of the population. So I think of 20 as being a challenge.

Mss Drizzt

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

communist state of NJ

25 Mar 2005 at 06:27 - 98

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genosha

MAD I TELL YOU MAD....
Why don't you just be honest you want to say fuchsia.

No what I would love to really see is Metalic Purple.

Genosha

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

Cowville, CA.

29 Mar 2005 at 02:49 - 99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mss Drizzt

No what I would love to really see is Metalic Purple.

Sorry to reply late, But OUI! (and no i'm not jewish)

static deathbringer

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

Ft Lauderdale florida, its hot here :(

The Harpers

W/Mo

29 Mar 2005 at 04:20 - 100

i think everyone here is missing the point on what GW's is all about, its not about the constant grind for levels, its not about being a god type character who can one hit everthing that comes into its path, its about skill. skills that you will have to refine in one way or another either for pve or pvp, to become the best player not because your level 65 anjd the person you are fighting is only 35(ive seen many lev 50's get their collective arses handed to them by a player who is 20 levels lower than them because they know how to play their character well enough that they could take down a higher level person with little to no trouble) what im trying to say is, and what kiwi is trying to say is, higher levels dont make you a better player, skills do, and knowing how your character works, and knowing your opponents flaws. if you can do all that then that makes you the better player, not your level. JMHO

Allmightybob

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

29 Mar 2005 at 04:29 - 101

No,

It's a great idea

if they want to kill the concept Guild Wars and ruin their game.

Pyxis

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2005

Heroes Etc...

Mo/W

29 Mar 2005 at 04:34 - 102

I got money on the levels going up eventually. May just even be 1 or 2 levels, but they will use it to push people into buying expansions eventually. Just give me 18 months after release before you flame me :P

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

29 Mar 2005 at 04:43 - 103

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyxis

I got money on the levels going up eventually. May just even be 1 or 2 levels, but they will use it to push people into buying expansions eventually. Just give me 18 months after release before you flame me :P

*starts marking on his bush-isms calendar*

static deathbringer

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

Ft Lauderdale florida, its hot here :(

The Harpers

W/Mo

29 Mar 2005 at 04:43 - 104

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyxis

I got money on the levels going up eventually. May just even be 1 or 2 levels, but they will use it to push people into buying expansions eventually. Just give me 18 months after release before you flame me :P

like freya said in an earlier post, upping the levels by even 1 would unblance the entire game, its just not probabable or smart on ANET's behalf. i guarantee if they raise the lvels alot of players will leave the game permenantly and never come back. prime example is a game i used to play called asherons call, great game...if you spent every waking hour grinding for exp and that next uber weapon.. but if you left the game for even more than a week you were then out leveled by almost 10 levels from your friends and then had to work 2-3 times harder to get back to those levels, with the way GW's is set up that will never happen, level 20 can be reached in a mtter of day's or even hours, and if you decide to leave the game just sitting there for a week, a month, a year then you would come back and everyone would still be the same level as you, so no added pressure to go out and play for 18 hours str8. ANET wont do that to people as theyve promised this wont be like any other MMORPG wher the only real goal is to get that next level.

*edit* they will never "push" people into buying an expansion, its not the way that ANET works. pushing people is what EQ does ie. if you dont get this expansion you cant play with your friends anymore, so whatcha gonna do? ANET has said even if you dont purchase any expansion you will not be punished for it, granted once the expansion coems out, every body is gonna wanna grab it, but if you cant afford it and haveta wait for a month its comforting knowing i wont be punished in anyway for doing so wit the level cap staying at 20

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

29 Mar 2005 at 04:57 - 105

I'm definitely for the [no lvls up] people...

lvl 20 or lvl 99? They're just freakin' #'s!!!!

If they wanted, they could take the exp you've earned through lvl 20 and just divide it into 99 sections...

So instead of gaining 1000 exp to hit lvl 3 or what not, u only need 100, sheesh... Think about it!

Instead of getting to lvl "99" in 6 months of casual gaming, you hit lvl "99" [20] using the new GUILDWARS system in barely a week!!! Hoorah for GW!!!

I was sick of looking at the "hack me" glow in Ragnarok Online. Yay, I'm lvl 99! I'm bettar than all of you! bah... In this game, you can say you're lvl 20 and "bettar than all of you" when a much smarter lvl 15 runs up to ya in pvp and tears your sorry self in two...

Please, reward the skilled players!! Not the ones who think lvling makes you better...

"But I'm not a pvp person ya dork!" says you? Well... When you fight a lvl 25 character at lvl 20, and those are all the highest enemies you may face, what's the difference in that and fighting as a lvl 99 char vs. lvl 110s? Again, just #'s... Wha!!! HOORAH FOR GW!

/me barfs...

Sorry bout regurgitating everything that's been posted... The very reasons I've left these other "normal, $#!++y" MMORPGs is because Guild Wars is so different. Please, STAY DIFFERENT MAH BELOVED GUILD WARS!!!

[gets locked into institution...] GAH!!!

Genosha

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

Cowville, CA.

29 Mar 2005 at 05:49 - 106

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyxis

I got money on the levels going up eventually. May just even be 1 or 2 levels, but they will use it to push people into buying expansions eventually. Just give me 18 months after release before you flame me :P

Well it is a midevil game so we will tie you to the Stake on top of the Pyre will that do?

Phoebe Girl

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2005

Cincinnati, OH

29 Mar 2005 at 11:24 - 107

I agree that there is no need for there to be a higher level than the 20 cap right now. As has been stated many times over, this is not a game where your level dictates what you can and cannot do (for the most part

).

I do think though, that after a few months/a year/a few expansions, a 4 or 5 level raise would add to the game. Not just to get to the highest level possible, but as others have said, there is something enjoyable about beating an enemy that is a few levels higher than you, because sadly, in this day in age, numbers are very important (in game - skill points, levels. in real life, weight. Paychecks, etc). And once you are level 20 (and please correct me if I am wrong), that satisfaction is dwindled due to the level 'cap' on mobs.

Guild Wars doesn't need any additional levels to enhance the game. Skills and attributes are far more important. But I will not deny that further down the road, making the level cap slightly higher could easily re-fuel the excitement in the game.

Just my .02

Dave III

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

I'm always where I'm at, or else I'm nowhere, man.

29 Mar 2005 at 12:52 - 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

lvl 20 or lvl 99? They're just freakin' #'s!!!!

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's an arbitratary distiction, and outside of this specific game a meaningless one, at that. I love playing Legend of Zelda- there ARE no levels, there. The only thing about levels is that it helps to keep track of what you've achieved in the game; if twenty is as high as you can go, then once you hit it then you can be sure that you'll not have too much trouble against anythng else in the game. (You might have to be clever, but in my mind that makes a victory sweeter than being able to kill a monster by bumping into it accidentally.)

Besides, this game is less about going up and more about going "sideways": exploring, PVP, GVG, quests, missions, socializing... is leveling ALL you want to do in this game? Doesn't that stop being interesting after a while?

Dave III

Nash

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Sweden

The Cornerstone

29 Mar 2005 at 13:12 - 109

Pfft, they may as well remove levels altogether as far as I'm concerned. Not that the current system bothers me, since you level up while playing the missions anyway.

Maugrim

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

29 Mar 2005 at 13:16 - 110

Quote:

I love playing Legend of Zelda- there ARE no levels, there.

Actually, there are. Have you ever played The Adventures of Link?

Back on topic, I oppose raising the level cap because (1) means more grind, (2) I don't like grind.

iczer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2005

29 Mar 2005 at 13:48 - 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maugrim

I oppose raising the level cap because (1) means more grind, (2) I don't like grind.

I agree, this game isnt about level = strength of character this game is about skill of player = strength of character.

- Iczer

JjK

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

Knights Templar

W/E

29 Mar 2005 at 14:32 - 112

I am probobly quoting someone..

But, there should be no cap.
But, you stop gaining attributes at level 20.
So we can show off, who has the most free time ^.^

Taranis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

29 Mar 2005 at 14:34 - 113

Quote:

Originally Posted by JjK

I am probobly quoting someone..

But, there should be no cap.
But, you stop gaining attributes at level 20.
So we can show off, who has the most free time ^.^

I'm talking to you on Gunbound....lol...anyways I voted NO since they won'T expand the LvL-Cap anyways...

JjK

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2005

Knights Templar

W/E

29 Mar 2005 at 14:47 - 114

I better log on then

Dave III

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

I'm always where I'm at, or else I'm nowhere, man.

29 Mar 2005 at 14:51 - 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maugrim

Actually, there are. Have you ever played The Adventures of Link?

Ah, yeah, I keep forgetting about that one. I never got very far, partly because of the constant grind. I was thinking of the more traditional Zelda format, with the hearts and the items.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maugrim

Back on topic, I oppose raising the level cap because (1) means more grind, (2) I don't like grind.

The grind is only an issue (to me) when it takes over the game, and there's always a point when that happens. I feel comfortable in assuming that I'll always be able to beat a given monster in Guild Wars, even if I wind up having to try several (dozen) times. It will involve learning the "trick", or a set of strategies, or doing something other than *Whack 'im with a sword*
*Whack 'im with a sword*
*Whack 'im with a sword*
*Whack 'im with a sword*
*Whack 'im with a sword*
(Heal)
*Whack 'im with a sword*
*Whack 'im with a sword*
*Whack 'im with a sword*
*Whack 'im with a sword*

...and so on. Almost all of the combat-heavy games I've played eventually break down to one thing: Not running out of hit points before the bad guy does. ...Ok, well, Guild Wars will too, but it'll involve a fair amount of forethought.

Dave III

spiritofcat

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2005

Sydney, Australia

Order of the Sanguine Dragon [OSD]

E/Mo

29 Mar 2005 at 14:52 - 116

I'm sure most of you already know the details of what happens after level 20, but no one has explained it nicely and clearly in this thread yet.
I'm not 100% sure of the details, but this is my understanding.
Once you reach level 20, you will have aquired 200 attribute points in total and assigned them however you wanted. Along the way you will have also aquired many skills, which can be equated to cards in a deck of Magic The Gathering. (Of all your vast store of skills, you get to take your choice of 8 of them into each mission I believe).
Further experience gained after level 20 awards you with attribute refund points which allow you to move your attribute points around to change the strengths and weaknesses of your character, but neve go above 200 points in total. Also as you play after level 20 you continue to gain skills, which give you more options, like having more cards to build a deck from.
Of course you would also gain 'l33t skillz' from playing the game, meaning you would know more about how best to play and how to use your skills in battle.

As I see it, there's absolutely no reason to move the level cap since it really marks the end of 'character building' and the start of proper playing of the game.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

29 Mar 2005 at 17:28 - 117

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiritofcat

As I see it, there's absolutely no reason to move the level cap since it really marks the end of 'character building' and the start of proper playing of the game.

the other part is that all the following *chapters* (not expansions as they will be much more than a simple filler expansion) will be taylored to a level 20 character

and people will spend a lot of time in those areas

as soon as you raise the level cap you make all of the previous game just a point to pass through as fast as you can to get to the top level areas

much as people will pass through presear askalon to get to where the real action is as fast as they can

Jeanette

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

Masssachusetts

29 Mar 2005 at 17:32 - 118

Honeslty it doesn't bother me all that much, A cap raised after a few expansions wouldn't hurt that much, gives people something else to do along with the new stuff, it's not necessary at the moment seeing as the game isn't even released yet, but it is somethin to think about.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

29 Mar 2005 at 18:24 - 119

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeanette

Honeslty it doesn't bother me all that much, A cap raised after a few expansions wouldn't hurt that much, gives people something else to do along with the new stuff, it's not necessary at the moment seeing as the game isn't even released yet, but it is somethin to think about.

it has been thought about and rejected as it would throw the balance out the window making 2 sets of players uable to mix with each other

the biggest point that GW has made in simple statements is that even if you do NOT purchase a single additional *chapter* your character will still be competitive

BlackArrow

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2005

29 Mar 2005 at 18:27 - 120

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeanette

Honeslty it doesn't bother me all that much, A cap raised after a few expansions wouldn't hurt that much, gives people something else to do along with the new stuff, it's not necessary at the moment seeing as the game isn't even released yet, but it is somethin to think about.

Why is attaining higher levels something to do in a game? The thing I like about GW is that I gain levels as I do the missoins. Sometimes I don't even notice when I've gained a level, and I know lots of people that I've played witha re the same.

Isn't the new content/missions/explorables areas/pvp areas enough to do?