Levels, leveling, level caps, and level 20

KIWI

this is what i meant when i said earlier that you WILL have 50 different people asking the SAME question in less than 2 days

REMEMBER THIS

it will be the first time THEY asked the question

for the good of the forum remember that and answer with the same patience that somebody explained it to you

smart remarks from the *old master* will be taken as insulting by a number of first time visitors here and a potentially good forum member leavs and says what a bunch of.....are here

remarks can lead to heated remarks and then to flames

be helpful be calm

If you are not nice to the noobs, you can get flamed....

If you think I was comparing an MMO and an RTS, you've missed the point entirely.

You suggested there was nothing to do in a game after you max your levels/stats/whatever. The StarCraft example proves this is false. I wasn't making a comparison, I was pointing out that the statement you had made was nonsensical.

Now, if you're saying there's nothing to do in an MMO after you max your level, rather than in a game, you may very well be right -- personally, I wouldn't know, I don't play any MMO's. If Guild Wars was an MMO (or if you insist on calling it one, make that, "If it was that kind of an MMO"), I wouldn't be here. If the only point of the game is to level, the game really has no point at all as far as I'm concerned. I could grab a calculator and hit "+1" all day if incrementing numbers turned me on.

I like StarCraft precisely because although there was a bit of "leveling", in reality people quickly equalized, and the game was much more interesting because of it. There was a lot to do after that, and you did against equally matched foes. The exact same thing is true of Guild Wars. Yes, it's in a different genre of game, but that's irrelevant to the point I just made.

Don't be silly, I'm never sarcastic!

Actually, if you think the animated banners are bad, click on the sig and visit my website. If I was any bigger a fan, I'd have "Guild Wars" tatooed on my ass...

The fact that I like this game so much, and I have hated every MMORPG I've ever tried, should say something about the game as well. If you think comparing Guild Wars to an RTS is not a valid comparison, fine, but comparing to an MMORPG is equally invalid. It's got about as much in common, and as much different, with games in either genre. Now, you could compare it to the Diablo series games, at least then you're comparing games in the same genre (action RPG). Again, there'll be significant differences, but there'll be a lot more overlap in that case.

What does leveling have to do with being done with the game or not in any case? There was no point in playing a Diablo II character after you killed the Cow King, it didn't matter what level you were when you did it. In StarCraft, there was a point in playing even after you finished all the missions, because of the PvP component. In this respect, Guild Wars is more like StarCraft than Diablo. Although there are people who really didn't play StarCraft much after playing through all the missions -- that's fine too. Play whatever parts of the game you like, and stop when you've run out of things to do.

But what the heck does what level you are have to do with it? That just makes no sense to me. You've either run out of things to do, or you haven't. What level you are is irrelevant in either case...

Saving the princess is a worthy goal for an adventurer. Killing the evil mastermind is a worthy goal for an adventurer. Crushing your friends in PvP is a goal for a competitor. Reaching the top of the ladder is a goal for a competitor. Reaching level X is a worthy goal for... who exactly? A mathematician? What kind of silly goal is that? I just don't get it...

Give chalt2 a round of applause for trying everyone. While he aspires to be a smartass, he somehow overlooked the fact that he earlier quoted balbanebeoulve, a quote in which balbanebeoulve misinterpret Dreamsmith's posts, not realising it contained sarcasm.

Actually, I think he got that I was being sarcastic. He still missed my point, but he recognized the sarcasm at least...

By your logic, the missions and everything but the item-grind stops at level 20. What are you thinking?

The FAQ on this page needs to go into more detail on this subject, otherwise people will continue to ask questions like this. Of course, they will continue to ask questions like this anyways, but at least then we can point them to the FAQ.

That explains the cap, but still will leave most gamers full of questions. the fact that levels are not "Levels" in this game needs to be made clear.

My favs are Magic Cake Teaparty, Help the old lady cross the road then leave her, and carry out the garbage and dump it in some poor schmos car! GW is gonna be great!

You can compare it to a First-Person-Shooter: Trainings-Level = Reaching LvL20; the game itself = after LvL 20

I am curious, and i am sure this has been mentioned before but when you reach Level 20 are there still going to be PvE missions that need doing, and or level 20 co op PvE missions? I imagine there are some co op ones would be great.

thanks again

K

You might want to perform a search on the forums... there are thousands of threads about this. There's a search button on the top bar, just try "level cap" or something similar.

i agree with the above, and the awnser is yes you will have many missions to do.

many people say this (and i agree) the game truly begins at 20

I have read that 78 thousand million times, "the game begins at level 20" but they usually referring to PvP. I want to do a mess of PvP I just havent been able to find much other than that catchy slogan regarding PvE missions and co op stuff.

i cant remeber where but i saw that there actually many more missions than we are given in beta. i wont pvp much ether, but i know that there will be plenty for me to do in pve.

hope this helps

The beta, from what i hear is only like 30% of the total game. I hope thats the case. I have only done 2 of the missions after the searing. I wasnt expecting co op missions, i like those alot I am just hopeing there will be a mess of them because if thats true, everyone will be level 20 for more than half of the game.

but this game isnt about lvl grinding

i think that pve will surpass all your expectaions.


EDIT: i misread your post lol sorry

thats what i love, little to no grinding at all I got to lev 8 in two sittings and i swear i didnt do even 1/3 of the beta. this leads to my next question. From what i saw, You can go back to any PvE missions that you have completed when ever you want. My question is are they scaled to whatever level you happen to be on? they must i am not even sure why im asking i just like it here.

im not shure about going back to a prev mission. matter of fact i though you coulnt do that. as far as monsters go ive read that they do "grow" as you do. by that i mean that as you grow more powerful so do they.

if im not mistaken not only can you redo missions, but they show up as thier own dots on the map so you can redo them near instantly which i hope is the case and im not imagining the whole thing

you shure its missions, or just side quests?

You can redo previous missions as much as you like. THis could be really helpful if you want to finish the bonus objective and your first group didn't want to, or if you want to help a friend finish a mission. You're right on the instant travel too.

i am thinking of quests i think. Missions i dont know if you can redo them? probably not because so much of the world is dynamic. Like if some npc guy dies in your quest, if you group up and go to the same area that guy doesnt spring back to life to meet your party again, hes gone forever after as far as your charactor goes. But there are some biger side quest plot related mission things that you can redo, those are what i meant by co op.

I think I get it now. What I call missoins are the ones that start in outposts and you gather a team and then hit "enter mission". These can be replayed.

The others(what I call quests) are where you talk to an NPC and he gives you a quest and you go into an explorable area and do whatever the guy told you to. These are not replayable.

Forgive me if this is poor etiquette--posting newbie questions without being in the beta. I've just started to learn about Guild Wars and need to know a couple of things. The background behind my post: I belong to a fairly large (maybe 12 people), diffuse group of friends and connections. We all love to play games, but we all play very differently. In previous games, some of us level slowly, some quickly. I think most of you know the story, and it doesn't tend to work well.

GW holds out the promise, in the FAQ, of being a game that can avoid some of these problems. So I'm hoping some of you experienced Beta-ers can answer two questions for me:

1. I've read that when you reach 20 you "Ascend" and stop leveling, but continue to gain skills. About how long does it take to reach 20, assuming a fairly relaxed (maybe 20 hours a week) gaming schedule?

2. When people are 20, can you really, honest to God group together? Or will the person who's been 20 for three months really obviously outshine the person who just got there yesterday; will the younger player be more likely to die, a drag on the group, etc.?

I think GW looks so intriguing and interesting, but I don't want to encourage my friends to play another game where the power differences between full-time players and casual players become stark and painful. We can handle some differences, but when one person is 60 and one is 22...well, it's limiting.

Starflower
Probable future Mesmer/Monk

Level 20--40 hours unless you plan to explore every single area to get there.

A thread on the subject. Had more but they have disappeared

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=1856


I hope this will suffice. Good luck

*Edit* Sorry, copied from wrong souce, should work now

If you take your time and enjoy the scenary (which I recommend), you should reach lvl 20 in less than a month with your scedule. Anyone dedicated can do it much faster (maybe two full playeing weekend if you haven't played before, one if you have).

At level 20, the main difference between players will be their ability to think tactically and strategically, and their ability to work in a team. Those people who will be a drag are those who insist on doing their own thing, ignoring the rest of the team. At lvl 20, every character has the potential of being a useful contribution to the team. But not all people have that potential, and three month extra playing time won't change that.

That is, the useful people in your team are those who are good at team games, not those who have played the longest.

For grouping with your friends that are also level 20, but have more playing time, that shouldn't be a problem. Their characters won't be significantly more powerful than yours, though the extra experience might have brought their skill level a little higher. However, so long as you play intelligently, you'll have equal survivability as your friends- there's nothing that you can get that really sets a level 20 character above another- they may have a better skill setup, and better equipment and some runes for their attributes, but those really don't make a big difference, especially if you're going throught the PvE content in a group.

None of those links work

KainMagus

the initial offering before added streamed in content between chapters is

25 missions

60-70 explorable areas (not small either)

additional content to be streamed in

oh yeah 9 pvp areas

will they be raising level cap with the first expansion?

Nope, not according to everything that's been said.

no they wont be raising the cap. they have been very cear about that, but thats not a bad thing. its actualy a very very good thing.

on the GW interview it states all future content is geared to level 20

I'am liking the looks of it...a new genre in itself. You can still progress your character skill-wise, armor-wise, and weapon-wise with the new chapters and after you hit level 20 correct? or is there certain armor that everyone has at a certain level?

pretty much each set of armor has a lvl 20 version, and as each one offers different bonuses, you are free to choose whichever you like

Thanks so much for the answers and for the (now working) links to the relevent threads! It seems to me that now that the MMORPG market has broken open so much, there'll be space for games that "break the rules" of traditional online gaming.

I for one find the idea of no level grind incredibly liberating and exciting, as long as there remains a sense of progression and movement for my character. It doesn't have to be levels, it doesn't even have to be skills--moving through linked quests is a lot of fun for me.

OTOH, I can easily imagine that without the "thrill of the ding" a lot of my friends will not be able to enjoy GW. Sometimes I wonder just how much of online gaming is about trying to achieve status over other people, and if "dingless" games have no thrill because you can't easily show how very 1337 you are to everyone else.

Who, me? Cynical?

Starflower
(Um, yes, it really is Starflower, although for some reason my computer decided to post this under my husband's account name. Odd.)

nolequen, let's hope the "100th monkey" phenomena spreads as swiftly as it should to the players too. I mean the "dingless" way of GuildWars is merely to drop the belief about the fantasy or medievil times, about the status being so structured it governed everything irrespective of any other power.

Yet the weight being given to the concept of "status" and signified by a title, and the assumed powers thereof, in the "real world" may likely be the source of the reflection signified by level, and the assumed powers thereof, in gaming--the bewilderment of the lack of that concept in GuildWars evidenced in the persistent curiosity over "level 20," usually claiming some associated "fear" the game won't be "this or that blah blah." Amazing how conditioned we become to expectation and "static" normality yet complain about the boredom of the mediocre. And people think computer games have no basis in reality.

Im not sure if it is on this forum anywhere but could someeone tell me what the level cap on this game is? I read somewhere that it was only 20 but that seems ungodly low....

most of the entire game including all future content is level 20

it is balanced for that

EDIT

Guild Wars, in contrast, is based around your skill as a player. Our maximum level is twenty, and you hit that very quickly, after about 20-30 hours of play. We call that 'The Point of Ascension'. Almost all of the content in the game and in the future Chapters is only available to Ascended characters, which means we don't have to worry about providing different levels of content. All the good stuff will be available to everyone. It's not our intent to force people onto the levelling up treadmill, so the level cap in Guild Wars is almost meaningless.

Basically, from what I heard, getting to level 20 is like what you'd expect from a tutorial in any other game. You get used to the game, and once you've got reasonably comfortable (get to level 20) you can start playing properly. I don't think level means anything in this RPG really, which I think it should be like for a game that's online. Level grinding in other MMORPGs get very strenuous and restrict you from doing a lot of things. In Guild Wars, you can do mostly anything you want without restriction.
(If I have anything wrong, please can somebody correct me because I haven't even played yet!)