Elite Mission Available to All ?

What problem? I apologize that I need a reminder, but you assumed that there was a problem, and I don't see it.

Oh, you're so incredibly witty. The problem is obvious to anybody who isn't an elitist. If you are an elitist, then may I suggest WoW, or even better, EQ as a multiplayer game that you should go play? I think you'll find that there are plenty of people in both games who will be happy to bar you from experiencing the content that you've already paid for.

I paid for Guild Wars: Factions, actually. That gave me the potential to experience everything in the game. I was given a lift to The Deep by TC. TC had that right, since they were the holding alliance at the time. You yourself can be given that invitation.

Would you argue the point that FoW and UW are unfair because you cannot experience them when another region has favor? I'm certain you could make a strong case for it with the arguements you made. However, you never exactly stated what the problem was, and I don't see the problem with FoW, UW, or the elite missions.

I apologize that you were offended by my earlier apology, but I really feel that the problem should be defined before solutions can be imagined.

Try reading. People have repeated over and over again the design flaws in the current mechanics of the game.

The definition of standalone is "capable of operating independently". I do not believe standalone has anything to do with game length or quality.

Well that is one opinion, and one that seems to be popular right now. I myself do not consider a system where alliances compete for the top position as "elitist", as it does not even coincide with the meaning of the term. The part that may be concidered to is the elite missions part, but I do not think this does either. The elite missions are simply a reward intended to inspire the alliances to compete for the top, nothing more, nothing less.

This does not mean that I agree it should be competed for by farming faction, but a similar system that gives equal advantage to both large and small alliances should be devised.

So... you don't have Factions? So tell me, why do you think that you can possibly argue anything about a game that you do not own? It would be difficult to understand much of the argument unless you have experienced it first hand, so I don't know what you are doing here.

I for one find it funny/ironic that so many PvE players are concerned about skill over time. PvE to me has always been about farming money in order to buy expensive weapon skins and FoW and such, and never seemed to require much skill. This is much of the reason I stuck to PvP for most of the end of my Prophecies playing. With Factions, I have been playing PvE again and enjoy the material such as challenge missions, alliances, and the two factions much more than I enjoyed most of Prophecies PvE.

They seem to be working perfectly fine to me. The holding alliance has access to the elite mission of the capitol that it is holding. Is that not working as intended? I apologize if I'm not reading things the way that you are demanding me to, but I'm still not sure of the problem you are trying to address. I'm not sure there even is one.

Yea, that's where I was trying to go with my statement. Guess I didn't word it very well. hehe

PvE does take skill, though it's a different type of skill than PvP. Rather than "see monk, spike monk" or watching a warrior use X stance and change targets right away, it's knowing what the AI is capable of, how the AI reacts, and how often the AI does X and Y. Now when I say that, I'm not refering to farming. I'm refering to actually playing the game.
The Skill over Time is not only the argument at hand, but it's also refering to the broken system. It's broken in that Anet claims the game is skill over time, not time (farming) over skill. False advertising claims ignored, the system rewards farming and those who have the time to farm all day, while locking out Anet's target audiance (casual gamers are who Anet has claimed to be shooting for with teh GW series).
One simply has to look at what Anet has said in the past about it's goals for GW and apply the opposite, you'll then have Factions.

I shall spell it out for you. The factions and alliances in the game deal with either Luxon or Kurzick. What the current system is doing is creating a civil war of sorts within each faction. Now it is understandable that they would put such a system into play to keep the alliances of one particular faction active. A reward who gets the most or contributes the most to the over all. The over all being the faction itself (either Luxon or Kurzick). The flaw that you seem to miss is that for an alliance to work it needs everyone working together and not competeing against each other. In this case the alliance being either Luxon or Kurzick. Take the luxon side for example. In that side alone there are multiple alliances but instead of those alliances banding together or even working together to help the luxons dominate the map (push the line) they war against each other for access the the mission. A better situation would be one mission that either luxons or kurzicks can have access to depending on which side owns majority of the map.

The is just one problem or flaw. Another is how faction is aquired. It is farmed. Farming, something that anet has created measures to prevent and/or stop is the very thing that get you the most faction. So anet has created a game that goes against their claims that lots of time and/or farming is not a requirement.

Yet another problem is the access to content. The alliance that holds the mission controls who has access and who doesn't. This is a big problem to the casual players who (I think) have the right to access the full content of the game since they paid for it with the only thing that should be holding him or her back is his or her own skill at the game (or lack there of). So access should be determined by one's own skill or one's own alliances's over all skill and not by whoever has the most free time on their hands to farm which are in most cases are those still in high school or not even.

The last problem being turning PvE and making it PvP. It may not be the toe to toe PvP but it is still people competeing against other people. There are three groups of people that play GW. PvP'ers, PvE'ers and those that do both. A game like factions is great if your a both kind of person but if your either one or the other this isn't all that good. It's too much like PvP for the PvE people to really enjoy or even like it and it's too much like PvE for the PvP people to really enjoy or even like it.

These are the things (issues or flaws in the current design) that people have been repeating. All are very valid points. Some people I guess with only hear what they want to hear or just won't listen at all.

Since your mind is set, I doubt anyone can make you see what we are complaining about, but I'll give it a shot. Our main point is the LIMITED access to the elite missions that makes the "favor" system seem like a dream-come-true. When these elite missions were announced, people complained that the good (farming) alliances would lock everyone else out of the elite missions, only allowing about 0.1% of the community to play them. Gail assured us that it wouldn't be that way, and that we should "wait and see." The fact that they ignored our initial concerns, and things panned out exactly as we predicted is our complaint. The Deep is now open to all, thanks to the generosity of the TC, but that wasn't the case from day 1. TC has just recently opened it up, allowing more than the 0.1% to play them.

We are not saying that the missions should be open to all, 24/7, nor are we saying that the holding alliance shouldn't get some sort of reward. Even though the faction farming runs are easy, they still take a lot of time to earn the faction required to hold the city. We just want a way to get into these missions - to EARN a way in. Not have access just handed to us. TC is being extremely generous by letting people in to the mission, but they may not hold Cavalon forever. Eventually, another alliance may take it, and lock the casual players out again.

Wow. Very well written, and great points. I completely agree.

I agree, very well said Hunter.

Actually, paying for the game gives you the right to see every single piece of PVE content that you have the personal skills to complete.

The favour system is horribly idiotic. I don't want my PVE content to be dependent on the PVP performance of some random group of people I will never meet, and have no intention of ever playing with.

elitist:
1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
1. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
2. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

Any person who wants to deny access to part of a game based on an arbitrarily determined criteria is an elitist.

Do I really need to play the game to know that restricting access to PVE content is designed to pander to the elitists that play these games? Do I really need to buy the game to know that Anet would be ripping me off by not giving me two of the characters that I paid for? It's my duty as a consumer to inform as many people as possible about Anet's deceptivve marketing tactics.

PVE is about completing the missions and quests that are available. _All_ of the missions and quests that are available.

I was just agreeing with you and expanding on your description.

TY

I prefer my other more argumentive posts, more fun.

Then you are in agreement with me. Take a look at the title of the thread: "Elite Mission Available to All?" Now take a look at some of the ideas I have been arguing against and ones that I have argued for.

I know full well the meaning of elitism, you do not have to define it for me.

The competition and earning of an elite mission is by no means "arbitrarily determined criteria", as that would imply that it was by chance that the alliance held the city.

And yes, you do need to play the game in order to fully understand the arguement. You may understand the basic concept, but you will almost always miss the details, which are the most important and distinctive part of an idea.

Well, no, not really. There are a limited number of missions and quests, and you know as well as I do that it is more than possible to complete all of the missions in less than a week. I consider the elite mission incorrectly labeled, as it is not really a mission as much as an advanced area much like UW or FoW.

Pfff, this argument is old and frankly I thought most people had realised it was easy to see why new slots on an existing account were worth more than new slots on a new account. I would have bought Factions had they not even given extra slots, simply for the gameplay. But, this topic should not be discussed on this thread. If you wish to talk about it, find a thread that was created for it. Do not mention it in this thread again.

People interpret what they read differently. What ever the case is it has sparked a hot discussion, some would like it open 24/7 while other are saying there should be a favor system but not the current one, while other argue that it should remain as is.

Since Factions is about Faction vs Faction (Luxon vs. Kurzicks) any content should have been geared towards that in the first place and not in the direction of alliance vs alliance you all are on the same side.

What is the reward for those who allied with the Luxons or Kurzicks? Armor, Titles? Those are not really a reward. Any one person who is not in the biggest alliance can get as much Faction points the only difference is that they may not be in a large enough alliance to really be any use. Where’s the reward for them? They worked just hard at getting all those points. But then I get the feeling that you don’t think individuals who match any amount of faction points to a single any person in a large alliance should be rewarded for anything.

The current favor system to the elite mission has only proved the concerns addressed months ago about large/top guilds alliance controlling town. That the towns would not change hands as much and smaller alliance and guild suffer from it.

As far as should they be opened 24/7 to everyone, simple answer no. Should everyone be able to get access to the missions, they should have an equal chance. Should there be a reward for town control, you want more rewards? Ok sure as long as it’s not anything that is content based, mission, items such as armor weapons that sort of thing that can’t be gotten by other means. Other wise it’s going to lead back to the same argument that’s been going on. What type of reward I don’t know, a special cape design, emote more merchant discounts.

Actually, I think that if you made special weapon skins that were untradeable so the alliance could show off that they own the city, then they lose the weapons once their alliance loses the city, would be pretty cool. These weapons could be given free by a trader in the alliance area of the city and each city would have its own.

But I'm not sure if it's really enough of a reward to merit the work it takes to control a city.

The system is not flawed, to say it is flawed is saying it is not working properly. The system is working how the designers wanted, it is not flawed, just a system most people are not happy with.

Do you really think ANet intended that people spend so much of their time RUNNING supplies out of Breaker Hollow ? I don't. They did everything they could to nerf running, and they have always said their games are meant to reward skill over time spent. This setup does the exact opposite of everything they support. Why else would they announce that they will be putting together an alternative method to get into the deep in the next couple months ? ANet has already effectively admitted that the system is not working out how they had intended it to.

I have never heard or read anything from ANET saying it isn't working how they want.

If you want to own a town you need faction, to get faction you need to farm, so it is time>skill until they change it. Prophecies has a system that is skill>time and it is called favor, everyone had a problem with that also. People will just never be happy until they can have acess to all the high end content at all times without having to do anything for it. People hated the fact that PvP determined what you could do in PvE, the only way to make PvE determine what you can do or what you can acess is farming, or making you have to complete certain things to gain acess. (Most likely farming which is still time>skill).

I am sure ANET is making an alternative method to get into the elite missions because it is a very poor system that we have right now.

Either way it is not a flawed system, just a bad system.

Not the same problem. PvP and PvE should not have such an influence on each other. In the favor system it was PvP that allowed people access to the PvE content and what did PvE restrict in PvP? Unlocking? If that was it than there were different ways to unlock stuff and once unlocked it stays unlocked. So for the favor system you had PvP controlling PvE content but not the otherway around.

In the current system the largest problem is how faction is aquired. Through farming. Yes we could try and join one of the alliances but the key word there is try. We could also try getting enough faction ourselves but I know for my guild we don't have nearly enough people and even less that play on a regular basis. It puts too much control into the hands of other players no matter how you look at it. It also doesn't test one's skill at all.
I'm really getting sick of people throwing out this hollow argument. If you actually read what people are saying all have leaned toward an alternative way to gain access and not just have access to it the moment they reach it. An alternative way that actually tests an individual's or alliance's skill at the game.

There are many ways PvE can determine what you can access. Chalange an NPC in a duel, do a prerequisite quest(s), gain specific title(s), and I'm sure there are more. Not only did anet claim that farming is not required but they have also gone through great lengths to put a stop to it. The current system allowes farming for faction the best way to aquire it.

Are they adding an alternate means of access or are they changing the current system completely? The change will take a few months (2 or 3) to make which indicates to me that they are changing the current system. So if they are making changes to the current system, why would they do this if it wasn't flawed?

If you both wish to get technical. The system isn't flawed in that there is a bug with it. It is the initial concept they chose when making it that was flawed. This is what made it a bad system. So technically your both right.

I disagree, but this is not the thread for this discussion.

Please read the topic. The main idea in this thread is having free access to all.

I agree with Hunter here, PvP should have nothing to do with PvE content and vice versa. If Anet still thinks merging the two play styles is a good idea, then linking the too via meta games that are not required to progress, unlock, gain access or aquire is the only way to go. This makes the annoying (to me) PvP rushed games optional.

Subject line says "Elite Mission Available to All ?" doesn't say anything about free access. The idea of "free" access, from reading back, came from someone not wanting to give access to everyone and thier argument that "elite missions shouldn't be 'free'".
Those of us wanting to have alternate access were requesting a system in which to unlock the missions via quests, missions or a way in which does not require yet more farming (ie, paying gold or faction).
We are also requesting a system that doesn't limit access once it's opened, like the horrible favor system. It's horrible in that any player from one moment to the next can not plan for or plan with a group/guild to go to these places. Thus, for example, on Wednesday night the group plans a get together for Friday night to go to FoW. They log in, find they don't have favor and now thier plans are gone to pot. The dumbest argument that always follows that is "well, they could go win HoH and then go". This is always countered by common since. If they logged into play FoW, that's what they wanted to do. Not go "work" for what they should be able to play. Second, they may not like PvP and don't want to "waste" their evening. Third, if the group spends the time winning HoH, they are now out of time and have no time to go to FoW and enjoy the evening they planned on.
If Anet puts a similar system in play for these Elite Missions, then we will be back here again really ticked off cause they are obviosly not listening or reading these forums.

If we like the idea posted about weapons and skills being rewarded as "loaner" items that are held for as long as the city is held, speak up and I'll go post it in Sanitarium. Now's the time to suggest such things before Anet dorks the system with more farming or favor options.

Well the TC alliance is currently just ferrying everyone into the deep.. with often not even a ty. We worked hard for the control of this city and we just let everyone in but people are starting to act like its a normal mission. They are lf ferry's its not about us coming to them they come to us now... If you ran them into the deep and want to play some you often cant join a team which is full of non alliance members... I have NO problem running those people into the deep... but its getting too normal for some people who dont even say ty or what ever...

As for the people who want it open always.. that would punish us than.. I know we are smaller than the total GW community but we did *work* for this city and we are ferrying people into the mission.. and I realy dont have problems doing that... but we did work for that city and since we ferry people in now it is kind of open for all...

Hmm... I don't believe that's how it went. Here's the first two sentences:

To me this sounds like free access to all. Free access to all is also what TC is giving right now, which is, to me, the main subject of the thread.

Well I must thank the TC Alliance for taking me into the Deep it is very much appriated, thanks again.

Eh, just a matter of view then. I don't see it that way.

As for the TC ferries, that's nice of you. Look at it this way though: Anet's design is punishing those not in your alliance by not having the opportunity to go there on our own "earned" way. We have to rely on others to get there. To me, that's not fun, and is no different then me asking TC for the drops you get there (if that's what I was going there for), and all the gold, exp and fun (ie, content) to just be handed to me.
If, once again, the idea of joining TC or another guild comes to mind, read back and see the reasons why.
The player base is not asking for TC to be punished, Anet's design is doing that to you. I would suggest TC (and other guilds) come up with an alternate reward system. Especially one that does not restrict play for others.

To me this is cut and dry horrid game design.

Fighting is out of hand in Cavalon now and members of a certain alliance will flame people for even mentioning TC. People in forums are pist off that areas are in the game, but unless they major sacrfices to how they play the game and even real life shit in some cases they can never access them. Finally, as mentioned this goes totally against anything ANET stood for before in terms of farming and time, as well as against the what we assumed factions would be about in terms of faction vs faction.

I say just get rid of these stupid elite areas all together. I mean when you played a game like Super Mario World did the game ever make you feel unworthy to access the secret elite area [star world]? Did you ever have to wait days or weeks to access a bonus mode in say Resident Evil 4 because guys a few states away did not do a certain part of the game a certain way?

No and it would be absurd to even think that there would be areas in games that a player has almost no control over getting access to. All the elite areas in this game force players to become so specialized in one area that more often than not they do not really get to spend time in the very elite areas they opened up to others. Why not allow the people who wish to access these areas do so themselves? Make players donate 100k on there account then give them unlimited access to the elite mission of the side they donated that faction to. Do something similair to UW and FoW in Tyria. It does not have to be easy, but should be possible so that anyone with enough time can do it with henchies or PuGs. You should not have to rely on luck as is the case often with winning HoH or leaving your guild to join some specialized guild just to access some high end areas. Also if you are a PvE player you should not be expected to join a PvP guild and grind away at PvP just to be able to get into some high level PvE areas.

However, ANET seems dead set in alienating massive amounts of people from areas of the game. I pity those in Taiwon or Japan who have to swap to European or American servers just to enter FoW or UW, and the people who have to suck up or buy there way into the Kurzick mission. I assume chapter 3 will contain some equally dumb way to gain access to the high level content there. But by then people will learn that this game basically is charging a monthy fee as it rushes out content and will be more likely to leave for a real MMOPRG that will cast about the same price in the long run and ultimately offer far more.

I just want to let you know that "Bomberboys orKs" ally is owning the House zu Heltzer since yesterday.

We are doing same thing than The Crusaders for Cavalon. Free taxi to the Urgoz Warren!


You are ALL welcome!

Go to HzH district french1 or english1 ( prefer fr1, we are from france... so... )

Have fun

Any news from Anets side on this topic ?

I know, massive huge thanks for doing this. I know people are very appreciative of all the hard work and effort you guys have put in
Vive La France.

Yup. Here.

Thank god finally.

PS:
Does this include the "presear" missions ?

My understanding is that Proph presear is still a no go (since the world is toast and all), but the Factions "noob" isle will be all opened (since the areas there have mission explorable zones).

So whats the ferry plan until Arenanet makes those missions available? Ferries for the weekends?

Presear doesn't have any missions just quests.

I was refering to the mission on cantha which are locked for tryians and the missions before LA.

You can't play the first mission in Cantha as Tyrian. In my opinion this is presear of cantha.

Still thanks for your insightful answer.

Well I think you can all look back now..those who bitched about TC opening the deep..... Im pretty sure we have had 2 or so events where those ELITE missions are open to EVERYONE

I know, this thread was over a year ago, i joined a guild who was involved with this and had to take a look at this thread.