Elite Mission Available to All ?

Thank you Gaile. It is good to know that Anet still listens to its customers. This is a good news not only for a huge GW fan base but also for Anet itself. It is good for Anet to keep the majority of players happy, not only a few "elite" (whatever it means!) players. The original GW Prophecy is the best example why GW is so popular and successful because it offers players so many interesting high-content areas and keep them going for a long long time (until new chapters come out ). We are looking forward hearing more about Anet's solution to this matter .

I don't know why they just do the following:

A person/guild can do the elite if he/she/they has earned (Whatever ammount) faction.

Nice and simple, and gives each player/guild a goal to aim at.

Yes, thank you ANET for listening us. I'm proud and glad to see things can be changed by a group of motivated people.

Gaining certain and/or multiple titles.

One title I saw required a person to achive 5 previous titles. Those that have this title could be allowed access.

Because every title is different and requires you to do different things it's something that can't be just farmed. It is also something everyone can achive in time with the only thing holding them back is their own skill at the game. No more "he with the most free time to farm wins".
So you believe in the exploiting of the mechanics of the game huh. *now where did I put those GW rules, regulations and conducts...*

It's very simple and I really don't understand why some can not or won't grasp this concept.

We all paid real money for this game. Anet advertises that this game does not require time and farming and that the casual player will be able to be as competitive as someone who has alot of time (in short this is a game of skill not time). With both being said should it or should it not be that we should have access to 100% of the game since we paid for 100% of it with the only obsticle to overcome being ones own person skill at the game and not the time to farm? Currently people can be (depends on who has control) denied this 100% because of people banded together having the time to farm. The very thing that anet advertise that wasn't required is actually required. It's a good thing they are addressing this matter because there are laws against false advertising.

The only thing that should deny me access to the full content should be me and my skill (or lack there of) at the game and not some punks who have the free time to farm. The majority of the GW players have lives. They have school or work (or both) and some have families on top of that. They play as a past time but at the same time spent (invested) the money on or into the game on the basis that it doesn't require alot of time or farming to be competitive. They also spent the money and should be able to access the full content they paid for. Last but not least they bought this game for the no monthly payments. The factions game that is suppose to be stand alone (the first chapter is not required to be competitive) but is really an expansion (debatable but can be considered false advertising again). With an expansion every couple of months there is your monthy payment. Six month installments. Though I suppose it's optional and those that play it for the past time don't have to buy the expansions if they don't want to. That is where I stand now. Won't be buying ch3 unless it gets godly reviews.

Why? Again I find your statements baffling. I am arguing against this sort of reward on principle. The argument is that giving a tiny group of players actual control over everyone else sets up an explicit caste system, adds no redeeming content, and has, as its primarily result, frustration and fomenting of hate. The last we have seen in spades. This is not surprising in any way. I seriously question the wisdom of the designers who thought this would be a great idea, and the quality of the feedback they received in testing.

Well I saw that Cavalon has a new ruler, good luck to you guys and hopefully Anet will fix it so I might be able to try out these missions since the Guild I'm in decided to go Kurzick.

I think the idea of your alliance earning X amount of faction is a good idea since 10% is taken each day so you would still need to go and get faction constantly.

Well good luck with Cavalon again, and it's nice to see that lots of people are being let in, I went over to check it out once I saw the Black Blades had lost control and there where people giving out free entry left and right, now if only a Kurzick Alliance would do the same it would be nice since we are only now just starting to organise an alliance with another small guild.

PS. I was wondering, and I'm sure this will have been answered somewhere but I don't feel like searching for it, can Kurzick enter the Elite Luxon missions by tagging along and vice versa? Well thanks and I hope this all get worked out to everyone's likeing.

I'm not at liberty to say what and how things were tested, but setting up a "caste system" is how most things work IRL and frankly I don't see a problem with PCs being granted a "superior" role rather than NPCs in a MMO game such as this. The "fomenting of hate" you speak of is a fault of the haters and not anyone else. As far as redeeming content goes, it creates tension, some immersiveness, and cooperation/competition. That's what things like this always cause. Some folks go with the flow, and some don't want to. But if what you say is right *in principle,* then we shouldn't have guild leaders or guild officers, as only they can initiate rated GVG, etc. The debate has been over *how* these things are carried out, as I see it.

The titles are not bad ideas for earning access, but it's still time over skill for most of those skills.

The cartographer title: Load up running skills and fly
Wisdom Title: Port Sledge, here I come.
Survivor Title: Umm, Mr/Ms level 20 can I follow you around for awhile?

Just a few examples there, but they are all "rewards" for just playing with the game rather than playing the game. Fun to have, but shouldn't be counted towards anything... still want my W/Me to get the drunkard title. hehe

The only solution I can see is that doing a quest and unlocking the mission. You will "earn" you access by completing the quest.

The standing problem (to me anyway) with Factions is the way the system is built from the ground up. It's all about points. Massive amounts of points. Anet assumed most players would go for the competitive style of play to gain those points. As many in these very forums said, even before release, people would not do that. They will (and have) found other ways to get what they want, that being points.
Look at the Luxon faction farm. Supply runs. Don't see many people getting together to do the duel, scouting, ect... just the Supply runs. Jade and Aspenwood are nearly ghost towns.
Kurzick faction farming, similar situation only it's the duel farming. The other quests and missions are pretty void.
The exception (though only mildly) are the challenge missions.
If Anet gets away from the farming and gives us an alternative way to enter these missions without simply falling back on the farming for yet more points/cash; we will have a winner.

BTW, points are extremely easy to gain. One can gain 10k Luxon in around an hour and a half. Kurzick points, 10k in about two hours. No exploits used, just playing with the skills and classes Anet has given us. If farming for points is what it takes to get into the Elite Missions; fine. Easy enough to do. I am just hoping for something slightly different, more fun, and challenging.

Every single person argung "We paid for 100% of the content of the game, we should have access to it" is based on the false assumption that you don't have access.

First, ANYONE can gain access, if you simply don't mind joining one of the controlling alliances. There is nothing stopping you from doing so. The fact that you can get into the Deep and camp there is also a side effect, but possible, depending on who controls Cavalon.

There is zero difference between Deep/Warrens and FoW/UW. Unless your side had favor, you could never gain access to those areas. If your particular region had real issues gaining favor, you could simply switch to the controlling region and enter at will. The fact that you had to pay 1K to enter - isn't that holding some people back as much as paying some Black Blade member 10K to get a ride, but on a smaller scale?

Finally, a publisher will sell you the game, that doesn't mean they have to make it so easy for you to be able to FINISH it. Does a particularly hard game that has an incredibly hard end of game mission, one you can't seem to finish mean that the publisher has the responsibility to the consumer to make it easier? If you can't finish it and gain access to the "100% of the content" do you deserve to sue the company? Hardly.

I've railed against ANet for their decision to lock out content to only "elite" groups ever since they announced it over six months ago. I only objected because, as human nature, greed will overrule fair play, and the tactics used by groups like the Black Blades was inevitable. To top it off, their idea of "Only the most elite players will gain access" only means the rich get richer - and then their particular implementation was horrible, forcing people to grind grind grind faction - and that somehow that was "elite"?

But tossing around words like "Lawsuit" is just incredibly dumb. That's simply just jingoistic bluster without merit.

Yes. Once in Cavalon / House Zu Heltzer, anyone can form a team and be brought into the elite mission area by someone from the controlling alliance. The only restrictions that might apply are those applied by the controlling alliance, and AFAIK, TC has no such restriction for the Deep.

can anyone enlighten me on what exactly is in the elite mission? I know for a fact that the chest give you crazy rare drops but is that all it has? Is there any challenges or tougher bosses within those missions and is it longer than regular one?

TC has free busrides to the Deep for all. Go to the International District of Cavalon and join the party

They not as big as either FoW or UW - or even SF. Perhaps about the same size as the new Tombs trip. They only feature one boss at the end, the attraction is the chest and monster drops. The challenge(s) in the missions depends on which one you're following. The Deep features some interesting design elements such as teleports that only allow 3 people at a time (which forces the group to split up), areas with auto firing turrets, places with "auras" that cause exaustion (for example), constantly respawning monsters, etc). The Warrens mission on the Kurzick side is more "more is better" approach, with TONs of pop ups, and HUGE mobs. Some areas have massive degen, etc. They both should be played fairly carefully with a halfway decent team using voice comms.

The items dropped simply are nicely skinned items - their stats are no different than items you can find somewhere else. People are all worked up over vanity (yet again).

Briefly, my previously posted idea for different access would be to let everyone have access some of the time, with more frequent access the higher the alliance's standing.

Not being in an alliance (or an alliance with no faction) would let you play once a week. Being in powerful alliance would let you access the game six days of the week. The very best alliances would have constant access (as they do now).

It's certainly not foolproof, and there's a few fiddly details, but it would be a very simple way to give access to everyone while still rewarding those who do well.

Not a good idea. You are favor huge farming alliance again. Everyone should have equal treatment in GW. It is a game for everyone to enjoy, not to feel inferior. It should open for all players with some kind of fee (either gold or factions). The holding alliance memebers get in for free. That is fair for all.

There is nowhere in The Deep where this happens, for the record.

(Well, i guess letting Kanaxai heal and kd'ing him to spawn the mobs over and over counts..)

I have an idea on how there going to implement it.

Create some sort of challanege to get access to the area (not give it away for free).

Give more rewards / functions in town for the controlling alliance to offset the "exclusive" access being removed.

This makes sense, I see zero Lux vs Kuz battle control in chapter 3. So when population dies down / allaince is no biggy in C3, C4, or C5 there still is a way when most of your guild is off doing C5 new "battle" thing exclusive to that chapter.

As of right now, TC is in control of Cavalon, along with the other 8 awesome guilds in its alliance: Keys, CKIE, LFG, SS, PWN, TnC, TSB, and DarK. Most of us would be happy to party with any skilled player wishing to do the elite mission. I am still glad that ArenaNet is working on a solution to the ability to exploit control of Cavalon, but for the time being this is the next best thing. Thanks for all the support I've been seeing in this thread. :-)

The best way A-Net can implement this is probably do something similar to UW/FOW entrance where you gather your group and pay the fee to get in there. Or the next best thing is to put these entrance guard outside the town where they are located in different areas and are highly guarded by enemies (or even bosses) And you have to fight your way to reach them and pay the fee to get into the elite missions.

Or one step furter, if Lex controls area, any Lex aligned character can access with paying fee, where alliance that controls get's it free. Like server's at war .. but being on faction controled vs the server region control.

This just goes to show what a bad idea alliance control is.
I know the theory is good... however it allows the pvp/faction farming control the accessability of PvE players who give squat about who luxon and kurzick are or what they stand for.

I know anet is trying to compete with the top rpg's but please dont duplicate their mistakes. Give access to everyone. make it even.
I think factions is different not so much hard. skills were a joke aand grouping engines are not improved nor has the market. All of which was promised in the expansion. I will give it some time and own 2 godly accounts. if in about 2 months it doesn't change or they do anything else to make pvp more controlling over pve ..... I will Go to Ebay which my 1yr long efforts and utilize the benifit to invest in another game.

its rediculious. and savio we have had bouts, we have had intelligent disgussions but this does show bad ideas are in play here and need drastic attention. alot of promises or, insinuation lets say that were not fulfilled, skills previewed that were highly and poorly manipulated, a 80% of new skills listed are a joke and now politics.

Please its a game let people enjoy it not drive it like its a job. i understand earning what you acheive but to allow others to keep parts of the game away from anyone else?

and savio Ty so much for your tolerance. this is a hot, legitamat, near conspiracy theory topic.lol

I have to say one of the poorest implimented political systems i have ever seen in a game. blows WoW's politics out the window.

Very true. Not all titles require skill and can be done easily. Almost in a farming manner. So there would have to be carefull selection by anet on which ones.

Having a quest is a good idea. Again though it would take carefull planning for anet to come up with the quest. If not they could end up designing a quest that can be ran through.

Just comes down to carefull planning.



Well lets see, if I went on the game right now I probably wouldn't be able to get in. Depends, of course, on who has control in which case I can go to the international district and ask to go in. But who am I asking? Another player. Not anet, not myself (for lacking the skill at the game) but another player.
Ok to join an alliance it requires permission from the alliance you are joining. These alliances usually come at a cost of devoting a % of faction to control of the place. In my case the guild I am in not many people are in it to begin with and those that are only about 5 max still play. So tell me which alliance would take us? No I am not going to quit the guild I'm in either. Me and my wife bought the game to play together and we both formed this guild together. The other members are online friends who we play other games with. Not to mention I should be forced into an option just to have the access to the full content of the game that I (as well as the rest of you) paid for. How about leaving the options as just that, options.
There is a difference between them. Both are flawed yes but there is still a difference. With UW and FoW you need favor which is something you aquire in PvP. First PvE content shouldn't be restricted by PvP and vise versa. Second, to get the favor in PvP requires skill. You can't farm for favor, you can't run to get it, you have to fight for it and fight against other people at that. This is something that takes skill. Sure for factions your in a state of PvP but that is merely who has enough free time to farm. Atleast for favor time isn't really a factor. Sure you need the time to complete a match but that's it. That's all part of the flaw anyway. The point is to get favor you have to be more skilled than your opponent where for factions you just need to have more free time to farm the faction. That is a major difference.

Key word there is publisher. Not other player but publisher. What you stated there is an individuals lack of skill at the game to over come the difficulty. There is nothing hard about getting faction you just need to have more time than the next person. Well this isn't the case for alot of people. Most players have lives that need attending to and can't do the hours of faction farming that is required. What people have been suggesting is either to change the system or add to it an alternate way in that actually tests a person's skill at the game. What you said is an example of that. Not being able to finish a game or reaching the end because it is too hard is a measure of a person's skill at the game. This access to the elite missions is nothing more than who has the most time to farm wins. Nothing hard about it but just impossible for alot of players. This is what is meant by being able to have access to 100% of the content that we paid for with the only thing holding a person back is that person's skill at the game.
The following is a true story.

A woman bough a cup of coffee from Tim Hortan's on their way to work. While trying to drink the coffee along the way while at the same time driving she spilled the coffee onto herself and burned herself. She sued the company for burning herself. Apperantly the coffee was too hot. So now they have a waring on the cups that say "caution hot".

Tell me where the merit in that is? This is probably the same type of person who would have turned the vehicle around and b*tched out the employees if the coffee was cold. The last I checked, coffee is hot.

So when a company advertises their product they have to advertise the truth. No they don't have to advertise the whole truth and how they get the message across is up to them (note some ads have really small print or in audio ads the person speaks the fine print really fast). However the laws are clear and when they advertise something they can not go against the claims in the ad. So if there are people out there that would sue a company for their own clumbsiness then you can guarantee that someone will try and sue for the false advertising.

The above is not a true story. In fact, it's a false retelling of a true story that has achieved the status of urban myth. Read the facts for yourself, but the gist is that the lawsuit was because the coffee was hotter than is safe for human consumption (remember: the woman in question suffered third degree burns) and the vendor (Mc Donald's, not Tim Hortons) was found to be in violation of safety guidelines. Another important fact to remember about this story was that the woman in question was almost 80.

Sorry for the tangent.

The main reason I don't support earning access through titles or completed missions/quests is because they have nothing to do with alliances or guilds, which is what I think elite missions should aimed at. Working together with your guild/alliance to earn access is what elite missions should promote.

EDIT: Is name-calling really necessary? -Swampgirl

So if you can't get to Shiro when you first turn on the game that means he's inaccessible and ANet lied to you?

Lol, yeah you can. Using IWAY is usually referred to as "fame farming". So yes, you can farm HoH.

Many players take an extremely long time to finish the game due to lack of free time spent playing. It also usually takes time to become skillfull at anything, GW is no exception. So time definitly can influence pretty much any variable in GW.

Erm... You do realise how easy it is to join an Alliance that has millions of faction? Unless you're notoriously hated by all of them, you can probably accomplish it in less than 10 minutes.

Every ad I have seen states that elite missions will be accessible by the top alliances, not the general population...

The truth is that after the reaction as a whole has caused the dev team to change there mind after it was implemented.

This could be for a lot of reasons, too many compliants (from the population as a whole), it's not changing hands as much as they want, certain guilds may be getting it all the time (not sure on this).

Now to calm down those that don't want this change, they will most likely come up with something to counter balance it (how well it works, is yet to be seen).

As a pve in a "friend" guild, I will never see the elite area's as it stands. I would like this change and it makes sense to me, I won't lie about that. That being said, I am having fun with Factions as it is w/o access to the elite area's.

There a lot of things that the dev's invisioned and based on the how players play or was vocal about was changed.

Dev could change there mind because the actually result is not there intenet, or the response by the community was not was expected.

If you played C1 since launch, Anet has changed a large amount of things"
Keyless chests - removed
Attribute Refund Points - removed
Moving "core" pvp to the battle isle
Chaning TOAK from a PvP to a PvE zone
Creating Green items to offest gold, despite collector's in place
Changing how AOE works in PvE
To name a few

Edit by Savio:
I went over and deleted the last four pages' worth of inter-alliance fighting, and I don't care to go back over the other six pages. I'm leaving this thread open because it still has some valid discussion about elite missions, and I'm also tired of closing every discussion thread about elite missions because anti-alliance and pro-alliance people flood them with their flaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GwG Forum Guidelines
Personal attacks and flames between guilds and members of those guilds will not be tolerated. Do not, under any circumstances, make an insulting or derogatory post towards another guild or you will be banned and anyone else known to be in your guild will recieve a one day temporary ban. If you want to fight, fight in game and keep it off our boards.
I'm being lenient this time, but be warned: any more alliance vs alliance crap posted and I will start warning and banning.


ok, so thats whats posted on the first post in this thread, i can understand vulgarity and being warned/banned, thats totaly understandable and im not arguing banning people who say things like "&$%@ the black blades", or "$%@& master chief matt", thats rude and ignorant, and doesnt belong in the forums.

what i dont agree with however, is warning/banning people for posting how they feel about a guild or person if there is no vulgarity. and i am not alone in this either, i believe the authors of the bill of rights agree with me to when they put in the whole first amendment right to free speach.

again, if you go on the forums saying this and that about a guild/person for no reason, thats pointless. but if you say something that is pertinant to the topic, and free of vulgarity i believe it is covered by this amendment and censorship of it has been proven wrong and illegal by the supreme court. I am a government and politics major and know this amendment and court cases surrounding it very well

I think it falls in to the same vein about not posting hay X player ripped me off. There is no way to verfy a situation via chat in a forum and can be used to slander (wrong or right).

Most people take pride in there guilds, and there circle of friends so when someone goes X sucks (nicely or not) there going to respond back and not all members can control them selves.

We aggreed to moderation when we signed up on the forum and if there was no moderation, the quality of "content" would go down very quick. On a side note, this forum is used by multiple countries and there's a chance the server is not even located in the USA for that matter. But the main thing is we aggreed to the Usage of the forums with the moderation clause.

Even I've had some of my posts delted because I lost sight of the goal of a thread (while being nice/civil).

I edited my post because a moderator edited the original, quoted post.

Back on topic, Anet is working on this, according to the dev forum. Isn't that the end of the debate?

We're back on topic now....let us keep it that way please. Thank you.

It seems that the disscussion of this topic can finally be ended.

As of 7:00PM CST, The Crusaders have taken over control of Cavalon.

And, as promised, they are promptly ferrying people into the Deep, free of charge.

I am not mad in the slightest. I am glad that instead of whining about it, they DID something about it. They have control and can do as they wish. The elite mission is now available to all.

Perhaps now we can fight the Kurzicks instead of each other?

i find it funny they try to award PvP the rule of PvE towns. yes faction is earned, but its not fair or right to intermingle the 2 game atmospheres and allow one to control the other.

Like I said if this interferes with my game playing after things root. I will simple cash in my chips and play something else. if repeat buisness and longevity (sp) means nothing to anet and they do not listen to their patrons to a point that it manipulates the way the game has to be played then they don't deserve our buisness and it will be their downfall.

But as its a know fact history repeats itself i only expect anet to make factions control ( ie manipulation is a better word ) worse and more political to a point youl have to invest more time into the game then normal recreation allows thus slowing your progression and enjoyment thro the PvE atmosphere.
either way they listen and i get to enjoy all of factions once my entire guild is rooted,.. or they dont and I cash in for about 700$ on ebay to kick something else off with.lol

anet you really screwed this one up. Nows a good time to make a speedy PR move to save face. the community is not pleased.

The discussion is not swayed by whether or not TC has control over Cavalon. The issue is not over whether or not TC controls it, it is over whether elite missions should be free or not.

lol which ever side has control they dont need to be able to lock the world out.

actually if the elite only side gains control again and starts ferrying people out as fast as they can it only makes more people who have had a taste of it willing to join in and help kick the elitests out again.

a few cycles of that and the free entry alliance will hold for a very long time simply because of the resentment the elite group caused.

It also locks that alliance into place as in control of Cavalon. This eliminates all competition for the position and does not allow other alliances the chance to hold the capital. I for one am against this.

In my opinion opening the mission to everyone for free is just sacrificing a bad system for a worse one.

just out of curiosity, if they let you in along with the others what complaint do you have?

if they hold it permanently but you are free to enjoy the content in your own private instance what difference does it make?

it is just as hard and they are not taking your drops so i fail to see what you lose in the bargain.

Look its simple, if an alliance locks out the majority of the gamers from a certain area simply because they cannot compete in the faction grind due to the fact that they have a real life and cant spare the time.........well those people will support any other alliance which will let them in. In this case, a lot of people I know wouldnt mind donating to TC to help them in keeping their faction up.

Is it bad or uncompetitive? who knows and who cares. I agree with Loviatar that it doesnt make a difference as to who holds a town if everyone is given access to an elite mission by the controlling alliance.

Besides the mission, what are the perks for holding the town huh? your alliance's name when you zone into the town? crappy fireworks? ego boost?

Do you think for a second that people are in awe of an alliance that is in control of a town? absolutely not, why should I be in awe of mindless faction grinding by kids who have no responsibilities in real life. I personally chuckle when I see all that crap flying around in local chat about "my alliance is better than yours because we own this town" and am amazed about the things that turn on 12 year old kids with too much time on their hands.

The thing that I do respect is an alliance letting people into closed areas which they didnt have to........simply because, it shows that they understand that the game is about relaxing and having fun and not about pissing off the majority of the community.

Massively off topic here... but isn't it physically impossible for coffee to be hotter than 212 degrees Fahrenheit? How do you get 3rd degree burns from boiling water? I boil water all the time and have somehow found my tea to be safe for human consumption. At any rate, she spilled coffee on herself and burned herself. If I stab myself with an overly sharp spork at Taco Bell, can I sue? Personal responsibility for the win.

Back on topic, it wouldn't hurt at all to have expanded access. I could see how the current model could work if there was an elite mission for each controllable city, but with only 2 of them doesn't it make a heck of a lot of sense to do it along faction lines? At least that way they can actually mean something...

Amen, VorianVader. About time someone said something that actually matters and makes sense. I don't give a rat's butt about who owns what town. I don't care how many members are in your guild or how "uber" ( another dumb-ass word ) your armor is. I don't care how many green weaps you have, how great your skill bar is. I don't care bout how many hours you put into the game or the fact that your character storage has a million gold because you sweated your butt off farming and selling for it. I don't care how good your guild is in PvP or PvE. WHO CARES????? honestly.


I will tell you what I do care about. And it's simple. I enjoy the game. I enjoy it more when I get online with my guild members and play it with them and we improve ourselves. We have fun. That is all that matters. That is what I will remember as I get to know them on a personal level. I will not remember who was charging 1k to let me into a locked area. I will remember that it was BS though. I will want to play all the areas on the map when I get to them. If the elite mission is opened up forceably, then I am for it. I appreciate your time and effort for doing this because I would like to get in to play it without being charged for it. I realize the balance will tip here and there. So be it. But to hold sway all the time??? Get over yourselves. You will get no reward. If you want to accomplish something more worthwhile than just pissing off the GW community, go PvP your butt off and actually become #1. Now there's something I bet you couldn't do.

The Crusaders' Alliance has not "locked" Cavalon and probably will not ever "lock" it. We have had quite a struggle against the Black Blades today, yesterday, so on and so forth; they have taken and held it, we have taken and held it. I doubt any Alliance will "lock" Cavalon unless the other side simply gives up, something I don't think will happen quickly.

Thanks for the invitation and nod of respect, many of us look forward to taking our fight to the Kurzicks.