10 Reasons Why Monks Hate PUGs.

10. No we don't want to buy your suPAR LEET staff OF HEALing
PoWAR!@# We already have our gear and if we are searching we'll use
auctions or other means. Don't hold up the party trying to show us your uber
gearz!

9. Don't spread out - Look it's not *that* important that you, as the
warrior, run to the NEXT group of monsters to show us how 1337 you are by
killing them all by yourself. You put monsters in between yourself and the
monks, you die. Remember there is no I in Team!!

8. If you get aggro, don't hide behind us. Look... it's simple, there are
usually lots of places to run if a monster hits you but when you run behind
your monks... well, guess who gets hit!? We can't keep you alive if we are
dead.

7. If we do die, please please please do not rebirth us in the middle of
a battle. You see, if we are lucky enough to run away from the monster
standing on top of us when we are rezzed, we start with about 1/4 of our
health, ZERO energy and an eight second delay of our skills.

6. Don't stand in unnecessary spots. We are not all tanks. If your skills
hit from afar, why do you think you need to stand next to the warrior to cast
them?

5. Dont start out with gogogogo - When we are ready we'll tell you.
Impatience makes us hate you from the start. Please don't act like you are
9... Maybe you are, I don't know.

4. Don't expect us to join a group without another monk. Being a monk
is hard work and takes constant attention. Don't be offended because we
won't join your group of 6 warriors and 1 ranger.

3. Don't continously invite us to your group. If we wanted to play with
you we would have joined your group the first time. Inviting us over and over
doesn't make us more eager to help you.

2. If you die don't sit there and shout "Rez me! Rez me!!" We are fully
aware that you are dead, there is a big dark red patch under your name
where your health *used* to be. When the time is right we will rez you.

1. If you die do not blame us!! Look things happen, but do you think
you make us more eager to heal if you complain that we let you die? Don't
count on it, I'll save my energy to heal someone that appreciates their monks.


Summer

heh, that is a great compilation however the one i think is the best (or worst!) is the one you left out, its a new accourance, only since factions has come out. its the assasin thing. i dont know why they think just becuase they teleport into a HUGE group and die we are supposed to combat a -10 degen or something of the sort. why cant they realize they aren't tanks?

A PUG is bad regardless of what class you're playing. At least you're able to get an invite when you need it.

true, very true, im glad that someone would pay to have a monk on their team. however becuase of the amount of sheer noob assasin/rits out there they cant get a group unless they start their own!

Why do people keep on tanking, while every 2 or 3 seconds 70% of their health drops? I keep on repeating that dieing is bad strategy, but they really expect the monk to divert 90% of their energies to them, so they don't have to buy good armour until they are in droks :P

Thank you Summer, i'll be the first to admit that I need to lay off monks sometimes, and this is good advice to follow.

Regarding Assassins:

They aren't all bad. And with the right build, they aren't so squishy either. There are two ways to play them effectively. You can go in and out (Teleport in, hit 3-6 times, teleport out). Or you can go with an armor build, using Ele spells. Ele's have a lot of armor spells which allow the Assassins to take a lot more hits, both from spells and melee. So, you get some amazing damage output from your Assassin and get someone that doesn't die instantly. I recommend zealous daggers if you are going to go with an Ele Armor build.

So... Assassin's are viable - you just need to take secondary skills that make you not so squishy.

When someone is dead don't expect or wait for the Monks to res them use your own res even if it is a signet.We are just to busy right now healing or protecting.Please give not only us but other casters time to regen.

i totally agree damon, i have an assasin myself and i know how to "properly" work him. not all assasins are bad and thats why i have to play on my assasin late at night when there are more people or do it with henchies, just becuase of the bad rep they have attained.

LMAO, just wait till or if you pvp heavy! I love being a monk, but good gawd the ele/mes/necro/ass/ranger tanks out there, they rock my e degen so hard it hurts to laugh!

Hey, check out the article posted on the guru homepage about kiting. "run to your monk and make circles around them if your getting hit" and this is advice in a pvp area! Too funny... Yeah, I'm a tanking monk, bring me ALL the aggro and expect a heal...

i love this post being a monk first other characters later.Its so true need to add the some more

(1)Just because you died comments like "your a noob monk" dont fly take into consideration we more likely kept our attentions on the more important player as our energy was running low healing your ass as you didnt really understand the term paper armor wearers CANT tank.

(2)If you see a monks energy bar get pinged 1 out of 52 DONT run into another mob the numbers MEAN somthing we would like a recharge break.

(3)Warriors and now assassins(with the right build) are tanks casters arent please take this into consideration and and stay away from front mobs.

Just a few i thought i would add.

And yes assassins arent all bad my guildie made a nice build using war and mes as secondary's that keeps assassins less squishy

AMEN brother and sister monks!

In a pvp area, the monks will be in the back line, far from harm. Their aggro circle should be just barely touching the front line (warriors) and it's up to the warriors to keep their position. With both sides having this positioning, any warrior from the front line dragged to your back line is far away from their monks and vunerable.

Circling around you prevents the enemy warrior from hitting space and constantly chasing. Eventually that warrior will have to make a consious decision to step around you manually or change targets to you. Any decent warrior would realise that they have over extended and if your caller is any good, the rest of your team will be attempting to make that warrior dead while he beats on you (they'll die quicker than they can get off a spike on you due to no support, then raged at by their own team for being stupid) or runs back to his team, which there is also a high probability of him dying and getting raged at.

On top of that, monks can and should kite too. It's not all up to the warrior to keep aggro. If an enemy is in the back line, run up to the front line, kite around the warrior until it's attacking them, then fall back. If a warrior falls back, as a monk, I fall back accordingly as well.

I think the world would be a happier place if you stopped making posts related to PvP. No offense intended, but it is clearly not your strong point.

"bring the aggro" ? You're attributing monster AI level intelligence to human players. There is no concept of "aggro" in PvP. Frankly, its disturbing if you can't see the flaw in your logic here.

Great list, there is some great advice there. About the only thing that I can think of for an addition is for MMs, MM are a great battlefield resser, they got the minions doing the fighting and soul getting energy, drop a well and rebirth into it (at least thats what I try to do when I play necro).

Although I would change the title to more of a don't list of things to do from your monk.

Well I personally love facing the challenges of a sloppy group and love being unappreciated while I'm monking, dunno about yall >_>

ummm....yea

monks dont rule the world. i played my pve monk for a long time and never had problems with pugs.

i have 3 words for you, summer, and every monk with your elitist i make the group attitude:


GO RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO YOURSELF.

edited for spelling and grammar.

I know I do. The challange part. I couldn't care less whether I get a "thankyou" or a "you suck you noob".

Well i don't think I'd appreciate "a you suck noob" comment but I love to give compliments to those that do well and love to hear them I personally try to rez as a warrior/monk if there is a tank well off enough to hold a mob...thus saving monks from wasting their energy....i just run off to a safe area, rez, and run back into the action...that has really helped in comeback situations since warrs can rely on some of their adrenal skills to jump right back in and attack

Very funny top ten list Summer

well i still cant bring my monk to cantha... i was always so sure that nothing can be worse than stupid wammo with frenzy+healsig+mending rushing froward and fire ele tanking pack or mesmers with 3 enchants on him but now we monks got ASSMO.... and its such a pain
i have to say that out of 100 pugs with diff kinds of asn i saw 2-3 asn's who managed to finish mis w/o DP... the rest was tanking and aggroing and dieing and yelling at monks and team.... i mean asn w/o armor buffs has the same AR as mesmer w/o stances with rogue armor on, but somehow mesmers arent tanks. its really amusing to see assmo running into pack of mobs and hitting them with his/her daggers doing pathetic damage - hey, mesmer can do more damage just wanding this mob so why should monk spend all energy on healing this dumb assmo and let valuable ele/necro/tank get spiked and killed?
plus i noticed that somehow assmos are aggroing more than leroy tanks - prolly theres a psycological reason - they're trying to show off how skilled and valuable they are and hw fast they can jump aroung the mob swinging daggers - but somehow in pug with 1-2 asn, tank and ranger 1 of asn usually starts aggroing be4 ranger can pull the mobs using bow... by the end of the mis this asn is usually at 60%DP and cursing monks and the whole team.

Sure...
Take twice tanks lets the dumb die... and dont rez... i ever finish missions with 1 or 2 less... is easy... you can do...
/Agree Dont **** the others life...

If a monk die is the priority 10 >>>rebirth<<< him >>>away<<< from combat area... dont mather if him have a 1/100 of you life...
Dont Forget to spread the news "I using Rebirth in >name of dead crying baby<

/Agree... Coming close to foes is not to kids...
/Disagree... You can make deadly combos by touching the foes...

Why not? i ever start with a good "gogogogoogogogogogogogogogoogogogog"
I raraly die, dont make extra work for monks, dont rush, agroo well, do my part killing all foes fast... or healing all good and i use rebirth well...
Why i cant use "gogogoogogogogogoogogogogoogogogogoogogogogogog"? ???

/Agree 2 monks because 1 ever is a dumb...

/Agree but it just to boring you...

/Agree Let the good tank dead... and the ataxes running over the bodys...

/Agree


Thats not personal summer just kiding...
I agree with some things and disagree with others...

P.S. Say "good healing" some times...

You have no idea how pompus this thing reads. It makes it sound like Monks are a tier above everyone else because you have your own set of special demands. Every class has issues with PUGs not just you.
For instance:
#10 We all get offered "Super leet gear" from random people.
#9 The spread out thing is an issue for everyone not just the monks.
#8 Monks need to move around still. The entire group shouldnt have to move at the monks convenience so the monk doesn't have to kite. Now obviously tanks shouldn't be hiding but if you are any good at monking you can get away from a few trains if the rest of the group is doing their job to try and kill it.
#7 That is an issue for you to take up with teh wammos. Though I don't think anyone likes this method of res.
#6 Once again everyone should be doing their job, it isn't just the monk who suffers from this but it isn't always a persons fault if they can't find a better spot to stand.
#5 This one just made you sound like an elitist. Everyone gets aggravated by "go go go" but it makes it sound like the group is there at your wim and will do as you command as if you are our only chance at a shot at the map. We should wait for everyone to be ready not just our "precious monks"
#4 Thats just group building 101. Maybe you should see what is up before you shrug off a group. Maybe they have a guy bringing another character. Who knows? Maybe you need to think a bit more about the groups you join and ask questions to the inviter.
#3 Everyone has this issue... But Im ESPECIALLY SORRY for all our "precious monks" once again.
#2 Personally I think that monks shouldn't be ressing anyways it should be the designated Res'er (Dont think monks should be that period) so I dunno what to tell you tehre.
#1 Shit happens, everyone gets yelled at one time or another while PUG'ing. Whether they accidently got Adds or maybe they didn't heal right. Just deal with it like the rest of us.
#0 I see monks get alot of shit, there is no doubt to that. But there are an equal amount of monks that think they are hot shit. They think they can go on strike and what not because they aren't treated like the gods they thinkt hey are. No other game has this kind of issue with healers complaining that they arent treated fairly. Every game has an issue with people being noobs or maybe complaining at one class or another but everyone bears an equal burden. If you don't like it play something else or just quit.

LOL!

That is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

That top 10 list is EXACTLY what I resent when PUGging as a Monk.

The elitist attitude when monking is the #1 thing to do to avoid a headache.

To constantly tell people "slow down" or "I need to regen" gets on my DAMN NERVES. I shouldn't HAVE to say that. I'm trying to keep THEM alive and they think that they invincible and aggro everything in the damn area.

Then every now and then I get some dumbass Tank telling me to "hurry up" when I say "slow down". That right there is zone out material. I don't care who you are, where your from or what RANK you got in PvP. IF you don't want to work as a TEAM and respect your TEAM MEMBERS then promptly go screw yourself.

Now if you don't like what I said then kiss my --- in advance.

Top 10 reasons why PUGs hate monks.

10. Failure to bring any form of energy management. Mantra of Recall, Offering of Blood, Inspired Hex, Signet of Devotion, Energy Drain, etc. Lots of nice options there. Use them.

9. Idiotic attributes. Do not bring Divine Boon with less than 15 in Divine Favor. Do not bring Shield of Regeneration and Heal Other. No, Mark of Protection is not a great elite for a boon prot.

8. Using Rebirth. Rebirth is quite possibly the last skill that should ever be seen in a primary monk's skill bar. It ranks below Amity. It ranks below freaking Keystone Signet.

7. Bringing pets. The blackout from your cute furry friend's death will kill the rest of your party. Be sensible.

6. Wearing no armor. No, Ascetic's is not suitable for all occasions. Put some pants on.

5. Pretending to be team leader. Sorry, you're a healer or protector. You have no business being the primary target caller. Watch the party window, not the battle. Unless you're the team leader, you have just as much say as anyone in deciding who stays and who gets kicked out. No, you may not demand that the team brings a blood necro to babysit you.

4. Failure to kite. You are not a tank. Run circles around your team if you are being ganged up on by melee mobs. Also see #6

3. Charging money for being in a team. Sorry, we'll take the henchies. At least they have a modicum of decency.

2. Idiotic prioritization. Maybe if you didn't constantly run back to use Healing Touch on the orders necro, we wouldn't all be dead. Here's a hint: keep the warriors alive.

1. Blaming others for team deaths. Sorry, it's your job to keep the team healthy. Tell you what, we'll meet half way. You are at least as culpable as the dead teammate.

(Full disclosure: I play primary monks a lot.)

I have to correct you on this one, Assassins have equal base armour as Rangers. Mesmer's Rogue armour is 60 base and +10 vs physical. Assassin's is 70 base and +x vs/while x. Ranger's is 70, +30 vs elemental and +x vs x.

On top of that, Assassins are almost on equal footing, damage-wise, as Warriors. Warriors of course being the class which has the best dps in the game.

To me, that is a sign of impatience. I'm a pretty easy going guy and can deal with warriors who chain aggro one mob after another with no rests between battles (hey, I prefer it that way, more fun), but I do draw a line somewhere. Even you'd be kicked from my team with that attitude :\

Hmmmmm
I dont necessarily agree on this one, some of the best groups I have been in the monk calls the targets, granted its not a pug, and the monk knows how to call targets (he also plays an exceptional Warrior and Necro) , but there is something to be said especially when you are in a large agrro group, for someone who is not in the middle of the fight, calling targets.

Ok, I've got to say something on this...
That may be true in PvP, but in PvE energy management isn't such a priority, with the obvious exception of a Boon build. And, no, you don't need Boon in PvE, but it is pretty nice.

Ok, I can go with Shield of Regen and Heal Other, maybe even Mark of Prot as well, but needing a bare minimum of 15 in Devine to be a passable Boon Prot? wth? PvE, buddy. PUGs in PvP are a different game.

Again, that's only true in PvP, and the Monk probably shouldn't even HAVE a res of any kind in PvP, depending on the build. In PvE, after all the monsters are dead, who cares if you burn all your energy on a Rebirth? You can just wait for the energy to come back, no biggie. Not to mention how useful that skill can be for people that get stranded. Quit being in such a flaming hurry.

Finally, something I can agree on. This is something that should NOT be taken lightly. If you're running Smite, then by all means, keep your pet. That can help. Please leave it at home if you're healing. You'll need the skill space more than the companion.

Having more energy isn't always a good thing when you're sitting in the back row spamming healing skills? What are you on?

You view this through a pretty dark lense. If the monk can call better than anyone else, then why not let them call? Shift+Ctrl+Space won't effect aggro. And if the monk is screaming for a br, then it's their own fault for not maintaining their energy better. I've got a Mo/R build with 0 e-management skills, and I rarely run out of energy.

To the first part, yes, I agree. You shouldn't be planted to the ground. Accidents happen. As for the other part, that's why you're standing in the way back next to the Ele, Mes, and bow Rangers. If you get into trouble, they can switch targets and deal with that threat, while you play for time. This is also why I usually end up hating Alesia.

I agree. Completely.

Prioritizing isn't as easy as you make it sound. It takes a long time before you know what's a real danger and what isn't.

I have no idea what you're talking about. If I was close enough to heal them, and they died, I can't go and blame a 3rd player for that. That wouldn't even make any sense. Not unless something WAY bizare happened. But, I can't think of anything that would prevent me from healing someone with my monk.

Sounds like you play a bit more PvP than PvE (not that that's a bad thing, mind). Play with a few more PvE PUGs, those are the groups that will really fire test your builds.

Rebirth is the best skill in pve... but not for monks or warriors is a ranger, necro, mesmer... skill... at some point in bathle when you have low energy, simple take some steps back and start to rebirth everyone...
how many times in fow or uw my ele save 7 dead souls with rebirth? if all lost just run and return later to rebirth all... dont blame rebirth...

Agreed.

Somewhat agreed, I'm a little more flexible on skills choices in PVE.

Yep.

Again agreed.

I've never had any problems with no pants on.

No. Sometimes the PUG you're in is just so awful that they dont even call targets. Or ignore the PVE monk and go for the warrior instead. Who cares if you're the healer? Sometimes you just need to run things because people are too dumb or inexperienced. But in general, yes Monks should not be target callers.

Yep.

Agreed. That's pathetic.

Yep.

Maybe. But sometimes it's not your responsibility for that one idiot who runs away from the team far out of healing range into a mob of hostiles and dies.
There is no way that is the healer's fault.

And I have quit monking for PUGS long long ago....

Energy management isn't completely based on what skills you bring, it's based on how you play and use the skills you have. Energy management is important in pve and pvp and it's not your max energy that matters, it's how well you can keep it up.

The reason why 15 is because you're spending a minimum 7 energy per spell you use to heal someone. Considering protection spells don't actually heal directly and most of the time, not at all, you'll want the most you can get out of that 7 energy. Especially considering you're depraved of 1 pip of regen.

Having less than 15 means you're using more energy for less healing and regardless of what type of battle you're in, the less healing per energy, the more energy used to keep up, the quicker your energy hits zero. This is generally looked apon as bad.

I have yet to come across anyone who's told me to hurry up. In fact, most of the time, I ask what the rest of the team is doing waiting around. For me? That's very nice of them, but I'm bored. My energy is full and you're being boring.

About that spreading out thing; When party members run to far away from the monk (Especially when defending the vizier in Sanctum Cay), you make the monk run for you. A good monk can cast a heal every second, for a very long time. But when a monk has to run for you, very often they see other people die while running to you, wasting valuable seconds running to you. You might not see this, but indirectly, you wammo berserker killed your team mates. Result is often that the monk get blamed. Nobody blames the wammo, putting his/her life on the line way behind enemy lines, at least 5 seconds out of healer's reach.

In other words: PUG's suck.

Really, it's not only when I'm playing my Monk (which is most of the time), I always hate PUG's, they're just a hopeless bunch of unorganised people in a group. The only type of PUG's I like playing with as a Monk, are the ones in Random Arenas, as being a good Monk in Random Arenas already means your team will rock.

You don't nessarly need these as a Monk for energy management ther are some yes Warrior and Ranger non elites that will work fine.This would even work in PvP without boon only for a boon protect but I don't boon protect.Signet of Devotion is good for mantained enchantments like Life bond.

i have another good reason!

in a PUG, the other monk you're paired with might be completely incompetent, leaving you to handle the bulk of the healing.

Sounds like a time for... Grammar Police! But I don't think he's online, so I'll have to fill in. The apostrophe is used in two cases: to express possession, or to show contractions. When PUG is used as an object, there is no need for an apostrophe. PUG is the singular form; PUGs is the plural form. It's not possessive; there's no need for an apostrophe in that case. The abbreviation functions the same way as the full phrase: (Pick-Up Group) + s. So "the PUG's fault" is correct. "The PUGs' fault" is correct. "The bad PUGs" is correct. But not "bad PUG's suck". In conclusion...
I wish the Ontario school system taught Grammar properly. For that matter, I wish they taught it at all. Although, none of you are from Ontario - that I know of - so that wouldn't affect you. But it would make me happier...

I have to disagree with this. PUGs arent bad; it's that one person (or two) that put themselves above everyone else in the group that gives PUGs a bad name.

I have my warrior in Factions, but I keep my monk in Tyria. I like to do chest runs in the Ring of Fire missions (especially Hell's Precipice) with my monk, and I occassionally help some guildies who have created characters in Prophecies. I remember what it was like to try and get a monk or two to join a PUG when I was trying Hell's Precipice, and now I make it a point to help PUGs there whenever I can (let's face it, it sucks to sit there for 20 minutes typing, "6/8 lf 2 monks for mission...PLEASE").
I will give a PUG 3 shots on any mission. Why? Using Hell's Precipice as an example:

1. If the group dies early in the first run because of an overeager member, when the group comes back, you try to explain why they shouldnt have run off (don't waste time trying to tell them how to set up their build, I work under the assumption that if you got this far, you better know how to set up your own skills). I've noticed that 2 things happen: either the person makes the adjustment, and listens to what you (or someone else) is saying, or they leave.

2. EVERYONE DESERVES A SECOND CHANCE! Just because the PUG died once, doesnt mean they'll die again, especially if everyone really wants to finish the mission. Anyone who had a rough time doing Hell's with a character knows what it's like to get almost to the end, die, and get sent back to Hell's Precipice, pissed off, knowing you almost had it, but for one person aggroing too much, or trying to do the bonus, and having it go bad for you.

3. This is just me....
I get a real rush when I find that there are people in the group that have tried to complete that mission 5, 7, 9 times. To me, these are the real gamers: the ones who want it real bad, and will try it again, and again, and again. These are the people I like to help the most. And, if you're going through the mission for the umpteenth time, I really don't think it's such a chore to say, "look, I've done this. Let's talk a little bit before we go, and I'll tell you how we can beat this...."

I'm no uber monk. I'm a warrior first. I wanted try playing with a character who gave support, rather than leading the charge for a change. It's fun. It gives me a different perspective on what all the other people see when we're fighting. And, in keeping that PUG alive, and being able to give a bit of advice along the way, helps someone complete a mission that they had been desperately trying to do for the longest time, I get just as much satisfaction in helping them do it as they did in completing it.

PUGs arent bad. It's what you can do with them that makes them good or bad.

I got one to go with number 9.


LEEEEEEERRRROOOOOYYYY




and most of the things you listed are mainly wammo's

11) If I use a smiting skill, it's because one of us knows what we are doing, and it isn't the one complaining about me using it.