Ranger Builds, Guides, and Tips
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewAtHome
I'm basing my new ranger's "do everything" PvE build on Sha's ideal build. It's been working very well so far but I just need to finalise what skills I shall continue to use.
Here's my desired skill bar:
1) [interrupt]
2) [interrupt or bow attack]
3) [bow attack]
4) Kindle arrows [or other prep?]
5) Mend ailment
6) Troll unguent
7) Storm chaser
8) Rebirth
I'm only in maguuma so I don't have the ideal skills for the first 3 slots yet, and I'm looking for suggestions. So what is the best selection to use?
Also, is there a prep which deals poison? I found a nice poisonous bow (using my ele), which I'd like to use. There is a poison preparation called Apply Poison. If you are using a Prophecies character you can get this skill from a skill trader NPC in the area called Ascalon Settlements which is north-west of Lion's Arch.
Depending on what attack skill you have equipped, you may want to stick with Kindle Arrows since Apply Poison cost 15 energy and can be a bit energy heavy if you have attack skills that cost 10 energy and are used often.
Poison will cause a good deal of degen, but Kindle Arrows will deal the most damage if you are targeting one target. However, poisoning multiple targets multiplies the damage it does. If you use a build such as Sha's, you may want to stick with Kindle Arrows.
Here's my desired skill bar:
1) [interrupt]
2) [interrupt or bow attack]
3) [bow attack]
4) Kindle arrows [or other prep?]
5) Mend ailment
6) Troll unguent
7) Storm chaser
8) Rebirth
I'm only in maguuma so I don't have the ideal skills for the first 3 slots yet, and I'm looking for suggestions. So what is the best selection to use?
Also, is there a prep which deals poison? I found a nice poisonous bow (using my ele), which I'd like to use. There is a poison preparation called Apply Poison. If you are using a Prophecies character you can get this skill from a skill trader NPC in the area called Ascalon Settlements which is north-west of Lion's Arch.
Depending on what attack skill you have equipped, you may want to stick with Kindle Arrows since Apply Poison cost 15 energy and can be a bit energy heavy if you have attack skills that cost 10 energy and are used often.
Poison will cause a good deal of degen, but Kindle Arrows will deal the most damage if you are targeting one target. However, poisoning multiple targets multiplies the damage it does. If you use a build such as Sha's, you may want to stick with Kindle Arrows.
Sha Noran
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
Quote:
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Originally Posted by AndrewAtHome
I'm basing my new ranger's "do everything" PvE build on Sha's ideal build. It's been working very well so far but I just need to finalise what skills I shall continue to use.
Here's my desired skill bar: 1) [interrupt] 2) [interrupt or bow attack] 3) [bow attack] 4) Kindle arrows [or other prep?] 5) Mend ailment 6) Troll unguent 7) Storm chaser 8) Rebirth I'm only in maguuma so I don't have the ideal skills for the first 3 slots yet, and I'm looking for suggestions. So what is the best selection to use? Also, is there a prep which deals poison? I found a nice poisonous bow (using my ele), which I'd like to use. I'm glad you've chosen to use it; it will serve you well. Now then, you probably won't get certain skills for some time (i.e. Punishing Shot, or Savage Shot for that matter), but never fear! There are plenty of early alternatives available. Trying to post a build without knowing what you have to work with might be hard; add me to friends and message me when you see me in game, I'll be happy to help you sort out a build to use. :-D
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
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Originally Posted by Sha Noran
However, poisoning multiple targets multiplies the damage it does. If you use a build such as Sha's, you may want to stick with Kindle Arrows.
In your build, you have no traps, so you spend most of your time shooting arrows. In my build, I let the degen do damage as well as use traps to control enemy movement while adding additional damage. To say that both skills are always useless is ignorance. The key is how the skill is used. If someone prefers a build such as yours, Kindle is a good choice. If someone prefers to use traps as well, such as in mine, Apply Poison is a good choice.
Sha Noran
Ok, enough.
Using Traps and Bow Attacks mixed together in a build and trying to use both consistantly (i.e. not just dropping a Barbed trap by your casters for kiting, but, oh, I dunno, running into the middle of the enemies and using Flame Trap) is like running Healing and Prot at the same time. It's also sort of like a Hammer Warrior stopping his Adrenaline spike, hitting an evasive stance, and dropping a trap. It's just stupid. Don't do it. Pick which you want to run (Traps, Interrupts, Damage) and stick with just that. Poison Arrow is better than Apply Poison in PvE in 99% of the instances where you'll want to run Poison. To cite an easy third party example, the R/Me FoW Forest solo (by Remmeh) uses Kindle+Poison Arrow. It's not an Elite skill for no reason. There is no debate. Drop it. Our Oath Shot debate is at least interesting as the advantage of one over the other isn't as blatantly clear, and if you'd really like to bring up some more interesting points I'll be happy to continue it. Arguing with me about your build from page one and Apply Poison, however, is just going to stop. Post regarding it again if you want, but I'm done. You're wrong. Sorry.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Using Traps and Bow Attacks mixed together in a build and trying to use both consistantly (i.e. not just dropping a Barbed trap by your casters for kiting, but, oh, I dunno, running into the middle of the enemies and using Flame Trap) is like running Healing and Prot at the same time. It's also sort of like a Hammer Warrior stopping his Adrenaline spike, hitting an evasive stance, and dropping a trap. It's just stupid. Don't do it. Pick which you want to run (Traps, Interrupts, Damage) and stick with just that. |
If damage is what the team needs, they can easily get an air spike ele or warrior that can out damage you as a ranger. The point of my build like I said over and over is to control aggro and protect the back line. If you understand how the AoE effect works, you can use it to your advantage.
I used to think that traps and bow attacks should never run in the same build for the longest time. I understand that cookie cutter builds are usually chosen because they are generally what suite best, but this is not an absolute rule, especially with a flexible class such as a mesmer or ranger.
Quote: Originally Posted by Sha Noran Poison Arrow is better than Apply Poison in PvE in 99% of the instances where you'll want to run Poison. To cite an easy third party example, the R/Me FoW Forest solo (by Remmeh) uses Kindle+Poison Arrow. It's not an Elite skill for no reason. There is no debate. Drop it. I'm having a little trouble following your logic here. At first you were arguing about how usefulness of a skill didn't count for some skills (such as Oath Shot) because they were used in solo farm builds, but now you say that Poison Arrow is a legitamate skill because it is used in one?
I told you before, Poison Arrow is a fine skill, but if you want to be able to control enemy aggro and protect the back lines with traps then you will want a good defensive skill to be able to do so safely. This is why I chose Escape. Not only does it serve this purpose, but it also serves as a running skill which allows me to consolidate two skill slots.
Obviously this is not a strategy you prefer and that is fine, but I have played this build extensively and have had much success with it, so I know it is legitamate. If all you are going to do is repeat your same arguments that I already presented counter points to, then it would be more civil to agree that we disagree instead of saying that I'm stupid. Mud slinging is not appreciated.
Quote:
Efficient or effective at what? If you still don't believe the traps can be used as I suggest I invite you to join me in game and I can display it's use in a quest or mission.|
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Our Oath Shot debate is at least interesting as the advantage of one over the other isn't as blatantly clear,
I'm glad to see that we can now agree on this point. Perhaps there is hope for us afterall.
~.^
Sha Noran
You're not stupid, you're wrong. You're build is not as effecient or as effective. Sorry to be the one to break it to you. I offered suggestion, you are going to ignore them, that's fine. Have fun with your build.
As far as the Oath Shot debate, it may be close regarding damage potential but in reality, it just simply will not deal as much as a Trapper's Focus build will because you're interrupted while I'm not.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
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Quote:
As far as the Oath Shot debate, it may be close regarding damage potential but in reality, it just simply will not deal as much as a Trapper's Focus build will because you're interrupted while I'm not.
My experience with the build itself says otherwise. However since I believe we have both stated our points for and against the builds, I think we can leave this one as something we disagree on opinion wise.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Poison Arrow is better than Apply Poison in PvE in 99% of the instances where you'll want to run Poison. To cite an easy third party example, the R/Me FoW Forest solo (by Remmeh) uses Kindle+Poison Arrow. It's not an Elite skill for no reason. There is no debate. Drop it.
I'm still not buying this one. In all of the cases that have been mentioned in this thread (ie... Spreading poison to multiple targets) Apply poison would be more effiecient, and would leave you with a free elite slot. You can say that you deal more damage by using poison arrow, but Apply poison lets you use other skills while you are poisoning, so I don't think that arguement is solid either. Your damage is not going to be spectacular either way, so I'd rather be able to use an interrupt and poison at the same time (opinion on poison aside).
I'm still not buying this one. In all of the cases that have been mentioned in this thread (ie... Spreading poison to multiple targets) Apply poison would be more effiecient, and would leave you with a free elite slot. You can say that you deal more damage by using poison arrow, but Apply poison lets you use other skills while you are poisoning, so I don't think that arguement is solid either. Your damage is not going to be spectacular either way, so I'd rather be able to use an interrupt and poison at the same time (opinion on poison aside).
Sha Noran
If you don't want to run Poison, then don't, but if you're going to run Poison, run it the right way. You will get more damage overall by running a different prep on top of Poison Arrow than you would by running Apply Poison with (x). Once you spread the Poison around the group, all you really need to do is attack normally until the Poison begins to wear off (17 seconds at only 12 WS, 21 seconds at 16 WS) at which time you spread the degen back around (assuming the enemy group is even still around by then). If you're running Apply, you're wasting time stacking Poison on targets that don't need it again. You're much better off dealing significant damage with another prep and attack skills and taking advantage of a longer Poison duration.
Avarre
Poison arrow combined with, say, kindle, allows you to liberally place poison across the field, before focusing on the target and using other skills + kindle (a damage preperation) to deal damage.
We have two arguments, application and target stages;
Poison, + preperation damage. Preperation + skill damage.
Poison + skill damage. Skill damage.
It doesn't take rocket sceience to figure it out. What other elite are you going to run? Punishing (?)- the + damage on that is not worth the loss of kindle damage across all attacks as shown above, considering you have other skills dealing damage once focusing on a single target.
We have two arguments, application and target stages;
Poison, + preperation damage. Preperation + skill damage.
Poison + skill damage. Skill damage.
It doesn't take rocket sceience to figure it out. What other elite are you going to run? Punishing (?)- the + damage on that is not worth the loss of kindle damage across all attacks as shown above, considering you have other skills dealing damage once focusing on a single target.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
If you don't want to run Poison, then don't, but if you're going to run Poison, run it the right way.
Quote: You're much better off dealing significant damage with another prep and attack skills and taking advantage of a longer Poison duration. This is the kicker for me. Let's run a normal everyday scenario. Lets say your group is fighting afflicted. A very balanced mob, lots of variety. Running Apply Poison, I begin my tab-space degen application. As I'm tabbing through my targets, I notice an Elementalist is about to cast Lightning Orb, so i Savage Shot dealing extra damage and saving my monk from having to heal the damage. I continue to tab through, and I notice a warrior is running across to smack my backline around, so I use hunter's shot and apply a -7 degen compared to a -4 degen. As I tab through my list of targets, spells are interrupted, attack skills are tossed in, etc. Utility wins everytime for a ranger. The mob is not going to stand around graciously while I'm poisoning them, they are going to be doing what they do from the start. If you are going to run Poison, run it without letting it get in the way of what makes a Ranger shine.
Quote:
Damage, or prevention thereof, is always the primary concern.|
Originally Posted by Avarre
<snip>
Damage is secondary for a Ranger. Besides that, Using apply poison allows you to skip the initial 'application' stage. You can get right into the battle like you would normally.
Lasher Dragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
This is the kicker for me. Let's run a normal everyday scenario. Lets say your group is fighting afflicted. A very balanced mob, lots of variety. Running Apply Poison, I begin my tab-space degen application. As I'm tabbing through my targets, I notice an Elementalist is about to cast Lightning Orb, so i Savage Shot dealing extra damage and saving my monk from having to heal the damage. I continue to tab through, and I notice a warrior is running across to smack my backline around, so I use hunter's shot and apply a -7 degen compared to a -4 degen. As I tab through my list of targets, spells are interrupted, attack skills are tossed in, etc. Utility wins everytime for a ranger. The mob is not going to stand around graciously while I'm poisoning them, they are going to be doing what they do from the start. If you are going to run Poison, run it without letting it get in the way of what makes a Ranger shine.
Agreed. When I first capped Poison Arrow, I used it a lot and really enjoyed it. Then, after capping a few different elites, I realized that really the ONLY time it's worth bringing Poison Arrow instead of Apply Poison is if you are running some kind of conjure-based prep build. Other than that, bring Apply and use your elite slot on something with more potential.
Peewee
I will say it once, i will say it again.
Drop the bow. Drop everying in markmanship. Drop a Hammer on people heads.
Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
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The battle does not end during the application phase. There is then the time you can battle normally. During this time, the enemies you declare so devastating that need to be interrupted are STILL doing their skills that cause these problems. After looking at the foes while applying a full spread of poison, you can identify those that need watching and continue to attack and monitor them with interrupt and other skills. Apply poison does not allow you to skip the initial application phase, as you still have to attack everything once first. Quickly poisoning, then moving in to do what you consider the most important part is more effective then trying to do both at once.
Rangers are quite like mesmers in this regard. Not to mention if you see a skill being used after you fire off a poison arrow, you can quickly follow it with an interrupt. This is only the first segment of the battle, as I stated to the ranger in this case there are two. You're losing poison application speed in favor of a stopped skill, however the fact that PA has poison on all, and can still serve that purpose outstrips AP in terms of overall applied and prevented damage.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Peewee
I will say it once, i will say it again.
Drop the bow. Drop everying in markmanship. Drop a Hammer on people heads. Now there's one way to kite the flow of discussion 
Sha Noran
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
We have two arguments, application and target stages; Poison, + preperation damage. Preperation + skill damage. Poison + skill damage. Skill damage. It doesn't take rocket sceience to figure it out. What other elite are you going to run? Punishing (?)- the + damage on that is not worth the loss of kindle damage across all attacks as shown above, considering you have other skills dealing damage once focusing on a single target. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Snipious Max
As I'm tabbing through my targets, I notice an Elementalist is about to cast Lightning Orb, so i Savage Shot dealing extra damage and saving my monk from having to heal the damage.
Yea, Savage the Spell, then Poison Arrow, then move on. It's not like you're a bot, only able to use Poison Arrow until everything is Poisoned. Again, common sense ftw.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
<Snip>
Your entire arguement rests on what happens after the 'application.' Nothing at all is stopping you from appling a different preperation after poison has been applied. Stopping for two seconds to cast it is hardly a drawback. You could argue poison duration, which would be a much stronger arguement, But the difference comes down to a few seconds.
What you've presented so far is hardly a reason to use an elite slot for something easily covered by a non-elite.
Sha Noran
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
Your entire arguement rests on what happens after the 'application.' Nothing at all is stopping you from appling a different preperation after poison has been applied. Stopping for two seconds to cast it is hardly a drawback.
Oh my God... you're seriously suggesting running two preps? Just... let's pretend you didn't just say that.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Oh my God... you're seriously suggesting running two preps? Just... let's pretend you didn't just say that.
Little test.
We'll take to Rangers (hypothetical of course), and set them in the Isle of the Nameless. One running poison Arrow, the other apply poison. We'll set them in front of the dummies. We'll assume that they will 'have' to interrupt one skill. So for the test, the ranger's will have to poison all three dummies and then proced to kill them, with the stipulation that they have to interrupt one during the poison process. So both rangers use their preperations, one uses kindle the other uses apply. The Poison Arrow Ranger uses PA to poison the first two targets, then savage + Poison arrow for the last one. Then proceds to attack the targets till they die. The Apply Ranger uses Penetrating attack on the first, Hunter's on the second, and then savage on the last. Uses the two seconds he is ahead of the PA Ranger to use Kindle, then procceds to kill the targets. Only difference in the speed of the two builds is the duration of the poison, which is four seconds in favor of PA. I'm sorry, four second duration is not worth an elite. And running two preps hardly a stretch when you suggest that there is no other worth while elite to take when running poison.
Sha Noran
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
Only difference in the speed of the two builds is the duration of the poison
Wrong. The difference is the ammount of damage done once the Poison is applied to the targets.
Just ran the test as you wanted, one at a time... my way, ~45 seconds to kill the 60, 80 and 100 armor suits. Yours took about 1:10. I can film it and post it if you'd like, or you could just conceed that you're wrong. Up to you I guess...
Lasher Dragon
There was a multiple-prep build I ran around with for a while that was quite a lot of fun. Unfortunately, my computer is in the shop for repairs, so I'm not sure exactly what the build was. I'll try to remember...
Distracting Shot Needling Shot Apply Poison Ignite Arrows Choking Gas Practiced Stance {Elite} Whirling Defense Troll Unguent Of course, bringing Practiced Stance makes bringing multiple preps a bit more feasible, so as to maximize the effectiveness of your elite. Basically I had Practiced Stance up 90% of the time, the only time it wasn't is if I needed to hit Whirling to avoid damage. Anyway, before battles I'd have Poison up, tab-space everyone, occasionally Distracting Shot as needed. Then I'd hit Choking Gas and focus on the casters, using Needling once they got below 50% to completely own them. If I or any softies got too much aggro, I'd hit Ignite and make the enemies flee. If you have never seen Ignite Arrows rapid-fired on a group using Needling, you don't know what you're missing.  I'm not saying this is some uber build, but it is fun, and uses multiple preps.
Sha Noran
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon
Distracting Shot
Needling Shot Apply Poison Ignite Arrows Choking Gas Practiced Stance {Elite} Whirling Defense Troll Unguent >.> <.< >.<
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Wrong. The difference is the ammount of damage done once the Poison is applied to the targets.
Just ran the test as you wanted, one at a time... my way, ~45 seconds to kill the 60, 80 and 100 armor suits. Yours took about 1:10. I can film it and post it if you'd like, or you could just conceed that you're wrong. Up to you I guess... Go ahead and post the vids. I'm intrested in how you played 'my' build. I managed it under a minute. I'll venture to say that your time was on the high side of '~45'. By all means post the vids. <EDIT> In fact, running this build here. Marks: 15 (accidently used a major instead of superiour) Expertise: 13 Wilderness: 5 1. Apply Poison 2. Penetrating attack 3. Sundering Attack 4. Hunter's Shot 5. Savage Shot 6. Escape 7. Troll Ungent 8. Res Sig I managed to kill all three targets in 35 seconds. Notice, not many points in wilderness survival, no second prep. I'm intrested in seeing your videos.
Sha Noran
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
1. Apply Poison
2. Penetrating attack 3. Sundering Attack 4. Hunter's Shot 5. Savage Shot 6. Escape 7. Troll Ungent 8. Res Sig I managed to kill all three targets in 35 seconds. Notice, not many points in wilderness survival, no second prep. I'm intrested in seeing your videos. Silly me, I thought the two prep combo was the secret to your success! And no, I've decided that vids are unneccessay. I'm not going to get in a pissing contest over this. You're wrong. If people would like to go try out the builds, I hope they do.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
If people would like to go try out the builds, I hope they do.
We agree on something!
Badger2
Sha, I commend you for taking the time and effort to put these builds together and writing this guide. For me there is alot of helpful information that I will be trying out.
*begin rant Some of you say that this guide is loaded with prejudice and bias. Of course it is. This is a guide as to what Sha finds that works for him (I assume) and has no choice but to be prejudiced and biased towards other builds. If you disagree with the information provided in this guide, go write your own guide and if you already have, good job. Where is it? Also, if you see a mistake that Sha made please be specific as to what the mistake is and provide the corrected information. Don't just say that this guide is full of errors. end rant* Again, Sha, good job.
Sha Noran
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
We agree on something!
We agree on plenty of things, I'd assume, or you wouldn't have such trivial arguements. ;-)
Badger2: Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. I hope the stuff you try out works for you. :-D Azog
To Sha:
Umm, nope some use Hammers, and some use Staves, as I indicated in my post... that you read so thouroughly.
I have read this argument from the beginning, all at once, so I have a unique perspective on the entire thing. So, my comments reflect that perspective. Sha, you have not represented yourself well here. I do not know who you are, and, from reading your posts, at this point, I really don't care to know you. You have come across as arrogant, closed-minded, and rude. I do care enough, however, to point out to the world what a mistake it is to take your opinion as gospel. You have fallen to using "absolutes" - blanket statements where you say, "this sucks" or "that blows", and you never really give an explanation of why you believe that way. We are forced to rely on your credibility. QFT, you have none. OH MY GOD, TIMMY! RUN FOR THE HILLS! SOMEONE ACTUALLY REALIZES THAT SHA NORAN HAS NO CREDIBILITY AND HAS TO BACK UP HIS/HER WORDS WITH PROOF! THE SCAM IS BLOWN! I don't care if you say you've been playing the ranger for a long time, and so "you know what you are talking about". I don't know you. You may have been playing for a week. Just because you say you've been playing the ranger for a long time doesn't automagically make it true. Furthermore, it simply isn't relevant. This is the Internet, remember? I could say I'm Santa Claus and I think that Oath Shot is da bizzomb, but it wouldn't make it any more true or any more false because I said it. You are closed-minded to a fault. You won't even consider alternate solutions or possibilities - change, growth, or innovation are closed books to you. How can I trust someone like that? Point in fact, I can't. I can't even trust such a person to provide a serious, well-considered debate. Sha, I am totally disgusted with your attitude, and your mannerisms. As I have said before, I don't know you, and hence, you have no credibility with me. What does this mean? This means that when you give an opinion, and expect it to be taken as fact, then you absolutely must provide proof to back up your claim. Your opinion on it's own means nothing. Finally, I want to address your plagiarism of the builds you have posted in your ill-fated guide. For the record; Plagiarism is when you take the work of others, and present it as your own. Quoting is when you take the work of others, and present it along side your own work. What you have done is blatant plagiarism. Most of the builds that you have posted have appeared, in one way or the other, on this forum board, this website, or other places. Nothing sparkling new there, and if there was, it would be hard to pick out which parts are your own innovation and which parts are plagiarized, because you claim credit for the whole thing. You presented a lot of builds, and to actually make the claim that you developed each and every one is ludicrous. This would imply that you have played each and every build for long enough to figure out what worked, and what didn't work, and had bought all of the correct equipment for each one, bought the correct runes, weapons, and armor, and spent countless hours testing the build until you had tweaked it to a point that you felt it worthy for the public. UNLESS, of course, all of your builds are theory-craft, which brings us back to the point about your credibility - and how you have none, so presenting your opinion on theoretical builds with nothing more than a casual paragraph to back up why it does, or does not work, would just be completely stupid. But the most likely reason is that you just stole them, and presented us, again, with your biased and personal opinion without supporting factual information. Fix it. Or be laughed at forever. I will close by saying that I wish I could have been more constructive in this post. But, the situation did not warrant, or merit, constructive criticism. It merited public derision, ridicule, and shame. But, to quote you, Quote:
Ok, I will spell it out slowly - opinions are meaningless without facts to support them.
Opinions...are...meaningless.... Ah, nevermind. You'll never get it anyhow. As for your plagiarism, fix it. Quote: |
Labelling it as such would be helpful. Actually, labelling it "SHA'S TOTALLY NOT-STOLEN AND COPY AND PASTED GUIDE TO BOW RANGERS WITH SOME OTHER THROWN IN, ALL BY ME SHA THE NON-PLAGIARIST" would be far more accurate.
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Your post would be amusing if it weren't so offensive. I'm not even sure what to say really. Sorry I couldn't help you dude.
Hearing you say that...that my post was offensive...just makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Quote:
Quote:
Apply Poison (15e)+ Savage Shots(x5) (50e)= 65 Energy My build uses Kindle Arrows as a prep so that each shot deals a bit of extra damage, then uses Poison Arrow to spread some degen around the group. Kindle Arrows (5e)+ Poison Arrow(x5) (25e)= 30 Energy. The numbers arent lying. |
Emphasis on The numbers arent lying . There we go. I think that the OP has good intentions, but fails to display his common sense. But wait... there's more.
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Originally Posted by Sha Noran
QFT. It's common sense people, really.
Quote: Originally Posted by Snipious Max As I'm tabbing through my targets, I notice an Elementalist is about to cast Lightning Orb, so i Savage Shot dealing extra damage and saving my monk from having to heal the damage. Yea, Savage the Spell, then Poison Arrow, then move on. It's not like you're a bot, only able to use Poison Arrow until everything is Poisoned. Again, common sense ftw. In a more recent post...... common sense ftw!
Sha Noran
Azog: Seek therapy.
Any admin: Could I get a hand with that assclown please? MrScaRy: Yea, I don't like getting into the math of it all because 99% of the time it isn't even necessary. Just read the skills, honestly. Azog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Azog: Seek therapy.
Any admin: Could I get a hand with that assclown please? MrScaRy: Yea, I don't like getting into the math of it all because 99% of the time it isn't even necessary. Just read the skills, honestly. Sha, You presented some quite obnoxious, arrogant viewpoints over the last 5 or so pages, including inside your guide itself, and now you are trying to lay the blame of all your mis-deeds at the feet of someone who disagrees with you...??? Who needs to seek therapy again? Clearly, you are just wrong, but won't admit it. What did you say about the river in Egypt? No, if an admin needs to handle -me-, then a fair and just admin would have to handle you as well. Azog MrScaRy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Azog: Seek therapy.
Any admin: Could I get a hand with that assclown please? MrScaRy: Yea, I don't like getting into the math of it all because 99% of the time it isn't even necessary. Just read the skills, honestly. I think you fail to see my point. You were using [retarded] calculations to prove that someone's build is terrible.. but the calculations you were using are far from "common sense ftw" as you put it. Do you really think it takes 27 seconds for someone to poison 5 mobs using apply poison? If you were saying that you need savage shot to quickly poison mobs.. why use it in the first place.. when it only takes around maybe 6ish seconds to refire your arrows. You were talking about common sense of other people, when you did not display any common sense at all in those calculations.
XvArchonvX
Ok, first of all, Azog, I can't say I completely disagree with you on everything, but your flaming is getting out of hand. Please tone it down a bit, no one here needs to be "squashed like a bug"
As for Sha, flaming back is just as bad as what he is doing. Cussing and calling people names is very immature. No matter who started it, each time you continue a flame war you only make it worse. As for the accusation of Sha plagiarizing, I'm not sure I would go so far with that accusation. Many of the builds Sha has posted have been around for a long time and Sha was almost certainly not the first or only person to think of the concepts behind the builds he posted. The only real difference between most of Sha's builds and the builds commonly used by other rangers is slight variations in skill slots and attribute distribution iif even that much. Whether this warrants him the ability to slap his name on these builds and claim them to be all his own, I will not say, but I wouldn't believe that he copied them straight from someone else in every case nor did he think of every build all on his own with no direct influence by anyone else. A lot of what Sha's guide is, really is not anything new. Basically it is a repackaged display of a lot of either common knowledge or information available other places sprinkled with his own personal preference. However don't get me wrong, I do not mean to imply that there is anything inherently wrong with this. As long as opinions are kept in check and are not blurred with facts, this is ok. However it should be known to any reader of this that his opinions are still opinions. As for Azog's accusations of Sha's ego, I will admit I have seen it flare and do often see Sha refusel to admit not only that he is wrong, but also that there may be two right opinions. However he has admitted that he was wrong at times so the accusation of his failure to ever admit he is wrong is therefore inaccurate.
Sha Noran
This guide would have been gone long ago if it hadn't have been for the few people that have whispered me or said out loud that this has helped them. Some people are such COMPLETE ingrates that they can't just appreciate the time it took to do this. If you would like to continue your personal vendetta against me, whisper me, or an admin, about what an asshole I am. Barring that, the discussion should be entirely composed of the actual guide and its content.
If this sort of drivel continues I'll just delete it. I really do not need to have all this shit talked about me and my guide that you seem to took me 20 minutes to copy paste from some magical location. It's been up on my guild's forums for some time now, and everyone was so positive about it that I thought I would post it here and try to help some people out. To make it clear, I appreciate everyone's opinion... if you like it, please say so. If you don't like it, please say so and state why. But going on and on for several posts in a row about the fact that I'm opinionated and biased is not improving this thread at all, or helping anyone, so please, just try to keep it minimal at least? Thanks.
XvArchonvX
I personally would be dissapointed if you deleted your guide. As much as I have criticized your guide, I have not said that it is wrong or bad so I hope that is not what you take from my posts. I however don't see what is wrong in saying that it is opinionated or biased. When you say that a skill is not a good choice, that is an opinion. There is nothing wrong with opinions. The only reason I pointed out that such are opinions is because even the greatest of guides are simply that: guides. A player should take all sources of information they obtain as a grain of salt and use their collective knowledge to steer them in a successful direction and not rely completely on one source.
I have said before and will say again, I appreciate the time you have put into this guide. However just because you spent a lot of time on it doesn't mean that flaws or innacuracies should be ignored. I could spend 5 hours on a guide, but if it misleads someone or has mistakes it still is in need of improvement. My advice to you Sha is to stop taking everything so personal. Not all disagreements with you are personal and the ones that are should be shrugged off. There are unappreciative disrespectful people everywhere, don't let them control you into falling into anger. Take a look at their argument objectively, pull out any pieces of truth and let the rest fall. There will be flamers no matter what, but keep your head high, don't sink to their level and the people worth surrounding yourself with will notice your good actions. Azog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
This guide would have been gone long ago if it hadn't have been for the few people that have whispered me or said out loud that this has helped them. Some people are such COMPLETE ingrates that they can't just appreciate the time it took to do this. If you would like to continue your personal vendetta against me, whisper me, or an admin, about what an asshole I am. Barring that, the discussion should be entirely composed of the actual guide and its content.
If this sort of drivel continues I'll just delete it. I really do not need to have all this shit talked about me and my guide that you seem to took me 20 minutes to copy paste from some magical location. It's been up on my guild's forums for some time now, and everyone was so positive about it that I thought I would post it here and try to help some people out. To make it clear, I appreciate everyone's opinion... if you like it, please say so. If you don't like it, please say so and state why. But going on and on for several posts in a row about the fact that I'm opinionated and biased is not improving this thread at all, or helping anyone, so please, just try to keep it minimal at least? Thanks. Sha, To begin, I have stated my reasons, very clearly, about what I think is wrong with this guide. But, for the sake of fairness, don't delete - FIX IT. Remove your ego from the document, and add more fact. Opinion is okay - but not the rule. Here is an example; ---- What is behind the scenes ---- Fact - the sky is blue. Opinion - blue sucks. ---- What really happens ---- Your own personal opinion - the sky sucks. ---- What never gets said ---- I hate the sky because it is blue, and because I hate blue. Now, if you follow the logic, we see that the pattern formed is that the fact portion of the equation is skipped, the opinion is presented, and we never actually understand why. Learn, and grow, and get your feelings off of your sleeve. Azog YouDigress
^^^
What the hell? Azog, if you really despise this guide SO much and despise the creator SO much, then don't read it. It'll solve all your problems for you. I've read through all six pages of this thread, and my head is spinning right now, so I'll do my best to throw out some general impressions. Archon - Hybrid builds tend not to work very well, from experience. Of course, I haven't been playing for quite a while, AND I'm coming back from a trip on WoW. I might be wrong, but trying to cover both the monk and the tank using one build doesn't seem like it would work. Of course, I haven't even tried playing it, so I wouldn't know. I'm only speaking from experience here. And not even a very intensive experience. You can probably disregard my words if it works fine for you. EDIT--I've even got a headache right now. So if anything in this post gives the impression that I'm uninformed, it's not because I'm actually ignorant. It's because I can really concentrate very well right now. As for all of the math...throwing up multiplication with casting times and cooldowns and all that good stuff. It's perfectly understandable for one to put up the numbers if the whole combat process were automated, to the point where there would be no need to have any timing skill whatsoever. However, the timing is there. One actually needs to time their skills. Guild Wars has drawn numerous comparisons to Magic: The Gathering, and I can understand that. GW and MTG are similar because they both limit a player to bringing a certain number of tools, and force that player to use the tools brought in the most resourceful manner. Like I've said above, the only difference between the two is the fact that GW is real time and MTG is not. Therefore, numbers have much less of an impact in GW than MTG. I can personally say that as long as I see big yellow numbers on my screen or as long as I see their big red bar going down really fast, I'm good. I realize that what I've just said was ignorant and all that, but it's just a part of me. I like to know that I'm doing a lot of damage to other people. It's the visceral impact. Because of this, numbers don't really mean that much to me when questioning the efficiency of effectiveness of a certain build. Sure, the numbers work in a perfect world. But in GW, there are a lot of things distracting me from thinking about the numbers. Maybe it's because I'm a bad player, but that's how I think about it. To sum it all up--stop putting up numbers. It's confusing. :-D |