Ranger Builds, Guides, and Tips
Azog
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouDigress
^^^
What the hell?
Azog, if you really despise this guide SO much and despise the creator SO much, then don't read it. It'll solve all your problems for you.
No, I won't let someone get away with plagiarizing (i.e. taking information from other places and taking credit for it).
It's just not in my nature.
Azog
What the hell?
Azog, if you really despise this guide SO much and despise the creator SO much, then don't read it. It'll solve all your problems for you.
No, I won't let someone get away with plagiarizing (i.e. taking information from other places and taking credit for it).
It's just not in my nature.
Azog
Sha Noran
That's it buddy, Admin time. Nothing here is plagerized, and I'm tired of being accused as such.
Evilsod
My god i wish i'd continued to avoid this thread. Theres more ego in the OP than anything else.
'Sha's' Bunny Thumper build? Bullshit. Its THE bunny thumper with the odd skill changed so you can call it yours. Same goes for some of the others. Stop acting like you thought of them, just becuase you may have changed 1 skill.
Barrage is a crappy elite eh? Since you seem to like numbers so much (i may not be a huge fan of it in general PvE but the numbers don't agree) you need to use it and watch them fly. It gives almost as much damage as my ele can (definatly after she's running low on energy thanks to enchantment stripping). Consistant 40+ damage to all adjacent targets (with the vampiric mod too of course), ability to bring an interrupt? Yup, even though you might miss from using Barrage.
Never bring spirits? Fair enough.. never mind QZ or EW, it RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs everyone else up. FW? Sure whatever. Not every mob in the game has a ranger in it. Not every ranger in the game wants to be using Read the wind every 20 seconds. Not every ranger hates Barrage.
The 'Sha's JI Barrager'? Yeah well done... its the Barrage/Pet barrager build i've been and seen running (similar to anyway) for a while, with the pet taken out.
The trapper? Your just trying to argue that Trappers Focus is useful. If you think otherwise don't try and pass it off as your build. Anyone with half a brain cell can switch Mantra of Resolve out for Trappers Focus if they don't like Spike Trap, its still a standard trapping build.
Choking Gas interrupter? Oh please like hell that was your idea.
Whats wrong with Concussion Shot? Unless your a complete f*cking idiot you can see that Dazed is an extremely powerful PvE condition. It inflicts the condition that can practically end the life of Casters without been able to fire a complete a single spell. To think it needs to be put on par with Savage Shot in terms of energy is just dumb. If your just sore that you can't target with it and interrupt things thats your problem... Anet invented Broadhead Arrow for that (which is great for killing those pesky ele bosses
)
Your not telling people how a ranger could be played. Your telling them how you want them to play it. Half of the builds suck anyway. Any ranger who uses R/E for anything other than Conjure i'll hold you responsible for in that case. They're so useful when they bring in things like Meteor Shower and Firestorm.
'Sha's' Bunny Thumper build? Bullshit. Its THE bunny thumper with the odd skill changed so you can call it yours. Same goes for some of the others. Stop acting like you thought of them, just becuase you may have changed 1 skill.
Barrage is a crappy elite eh? Since you seem to like numbers so much (i may not be a huge fan of it in general PvE but the numbers don't agree) you need to use it and watch them fly. It gives almost as much damage as my ele can (definatly after she's running low on energy thanks to enchantment stripping). Consistant 40+ damage to all adjacent targets (with the vampiric mod too of course), ability to bring an interrupt? Yup, even though you might miss from using Barrage.
Never bring spirits? Fair enough.. never mind QZ or EW, it RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs everyone else up. FW? Sure whatever. Not every mob in the game has a ranger in it. Not every ranger in the game wants to be using Read the wind every 20 seconds. Not every ranger hates Barrage.
The 'Sha's JI Barrager'? Yeah well done... its the Barrage/Pet barrager build i've been and seen running (similar to anyway) for a while, with the pet taken out.
The trapper? Your just trying to argue that Trappers Focus is useful. If you think otherwise don't try and pass it off as your build. Anyone with half a brain cell can switch Mantra of Resolve out for Trappers Focus if they don't like Spike Trap, its still a standard trapping build.
Choking Gas interrupter? Oh please like hell that was your idea.
Whats wrong with Concussion Shot? Unless your a complete f*cking idiot you can see that Dazed is an extremely powerful PvE condition. It inflicts the condition that can practically end the life of Casters without been able to fire a complete a single spell. To think it needs to be put on par with Savage Shot in terms of energy is just dumb. If your just sore that you can't target with it and interrupt things thats your problem... Anet invented Broadhead Arrow for that (which is great for killing those pesky ele bosses
)Your not telling people how a ranger could be played. Your telling them how you want them to play it. Half of the builds suck anyway. Any ranger who uses R/E for anything other than Conjure i'll hold you responsible for in that case. They're so useful when they bring in things like Meteor Shower and Firestorm.
Sha Noran
I didn't invent the skills, that's just how I use them. If you want I'll change the f'in names, that's just how I do it. I thought people would look beyond the NAMES OF THE BUILDS and look at what they actually do. I swear to God I'm about to just delete this, I'm so tired of the flames.
As far as the R/E builds I SAID it wasn't the best way, but it's fun. Sorry for... having fun?
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
As far as the R/E builds I SAID it wasn't the best way, but it's fun. Sorry for... having fun?
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My god i wish i'd continued to avoid this thread.
Ditto.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
I didn't invent the skills, that's just how I use them. If you want I'll change the f'in names, that's just how I do it. I thought people would look beyond the NAMES OF THE BUILDS and look at what they actually do. I swear to God I'm about to just delete this, I'm so tired of the flames.
Perhaps you should start with the words 'Sha' before each and every build you quite obviously stole?
Sha Noran
Right. I stole them.
Went ahead and removed my name from most of them to make it clear that I didn't invent them all, which wasn't the purpose behind putting my name there. I had my name there to make it clear that of the different variations on the build, that I was listing how I run it, in other words, to make it clear that this was my opinion. That didn't work either, so whatever.
Went ahead and removed my name from most of them to make it clear that I didn't invent them all, which wasn't the purpose behind putting my name there. I had my name there to make it clear that of the different variations on the build, that I was listing how I run it, in other words, to make it clear that this was my opinion. That didn't work either, so whatever.
patc15
gosh u guys are giving sha a hard time
he said like a million times he didn't steal them and just put his name in the title and admitted they weren't his.
and why are u looking at the title more than the build anyway like someone mentioned.
he said like a million times he didn't steal them and just put his name in the title and admitted they weren't his.
and why are u looking at the title more than the build anyway like someone mentioned.
JR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
... says the guy who uses Apply then spreads it with Savage spam. 
Not that I really want to step on too many PvE toes; but spreading poison with Apply and Savage inbetween normal attacks is BY FAR the most efficient way to spread it, bar using Quick Shot. Watch the Crip-Shot rangers used by decent guilds on observer mode, and you should see them doing this whenever they are in the main battle to pressure the other team.
It is SO much faster and more efficient. The garbage theory you came up disproving that is... well garbage. Poison Arrow is one of the worst ranger Elites going, learn to love Apply. Don't get me wrong, 10 months ago when I was a bit of a nub I used Apply Poison and Kindle on my ranger, and thought it was the bomb. I soon got over that. Poison becomes more and more effective as the mob size increases, so if you aren't running a build with optimal ability to spread it then why use Poison at all?
And Trappers Focus *IS* another waste of an Elite; Distortion trapping is the way forward, either that or Oath Shot and Whirling Defense.
Regards,
-JR
Not that I really want to step on too many PvE toes; but spreading poison with Apply and Savage inbetween normal attacks is BY FAR the most efficient way to spread it, bar using Quick Shot. Watch the Crip-Shot rangers used by decent guilds on observer mode, and you should see them doing this whenever they are in the main battle to pressure the other team.It is SO much faster and more efficient. The garbage theory you came up disproving that is... well garbage. Poison Arrow is one of the worst ranger Elites going, learn to love Apply. Don't get me wrong, 10 months ago when I was a bit of a nub I used Apply Poison and Kindle on my ranger, and thought it was the bomb. I soon got over that. Poison becomes more and more effective as the mob size increases, so if you aren't running a build with optimal ability to spread it then why use Poison at all?
And Trappers Focus *IS* another waste of an Elite; Distortion trapping is the way forward, either that or Oath Shot and Whirling Defense.
Regards,
-JR
Epinephrine
Wow, as a ranger player I have to say that your guide may have good info in it, but it also carries a ton of misinformation.
For example:
Ithas bow isn't un-modifyable, nor is it a bad bow. It's certainly not the choice for endgame damage dealing, but you get a free +5 AL if you have 10+ expertise, and can put a defensive grip on it if you want, making it a 10AL bow for trapping for example.
Ascalon bows are worth using, just read about which comes from which trader, or test. It's not random, each collector provides a certain type of bow, and resources like guildwiki or Hansoo's bow FAQ will solve any issue.
Worth mention perhaps as an alternate bow is the reward from the quest Blankets for the Settlers, it's a Longbow, 13-25 damage (req. 6 Marksmanship), Damage +10% (while in a stance), Received damage -2 (while in a stance) - the only bow with damage reduction, and again useful in builds in which you need this, at least worth bringing up for the builds that can make use of it; -2 damage is pretty handy in some cases.
Saying that Zealous is never worth it is the sheerest ignorance. Zealous in PvE is an amazing mod - even with no buffs to IAS, you can easily shoot an arrow per 2 seconds. That's an energy per 2 seconds. You sacrifice a pip, that's an energy per 3 seconds. Math thus tells us that after 3 arrows we have gained 3 energy, and lost 2 to the pip, for a net gain of 1 energy per 6 seconds, or a half pip. Add Dual shots, interrupts, Tiger's Fury/Lightning Reflexes, Quickshot, Barrage, Needling shot etc... Yeah, it's pretty handy.
I can't actually count the number of places I disagree with your assessments, based on solid facts and my in-game experiences; thanks for putting time into it, but your rejection of the corrections offered by the community makes me think deleting it is the best course - you argue against well known facts and tenets of rangering. Saying Barrage is a crappy skill is like saying "I have no idea what I'm talking about, ignore me!" out loud.
Your advice is just so bad on many issues. Recommending a Marksmanship Grip because it's like + damage a % of the time???? Have you looked at the numbers? It's horrible! I guess I really object to the gross generalizations and the misinformation most of all. Obviously there is room for opinion in a guide, that's the point, but you should present justification generally, your reasoning. Saying "Longbow is the best bow in PvE" is a poor statement. Best for what? Better than carrying bow switches? If I saw a ranger using a longbow for everything I'd know he was a poor player; he's choosing a deliberately sub-par weapon for many situations. You can do 20% more damage with a Flatbow/Shortbow for example, so using a longbow to initiate combat and swapping to a shortbow is a reasonable way to handle this.
Anyway, I'm not trying to flame, I'm trying to illustrate a few of the many points in the guide that are innacurate, wrong, or too laden with opinion. If you want to make it acceptable and useful, take the advice of those who know a great deal about the game and incorporate changes, otherwise as you said, deleting it is the best option.
For example:
Ithas bow isn't un-modifyable, nor is it a bad bow. It's certainly not the choice for endgame damage dealing, but you get a free +5 AL if you have 10+ expertise, and can put a defensive grip on it if you want, making it a 10AL bow for trapping for example.
Ascalon bows are worth using, just read about which comes from which trader, or test. It's not random, each collector provides a certain type of bow, and resources like guildwiki or Hansoo's bow FAQ will solve any issue.
Worth mention perhaps as an alternate bow is the reward from the quest Blankets for the Settlers, it's a Longbow, 13-25 damage (req. 6 Marksmanship), Damage +10% (while in a stance), Received damage -2 (while in a stance) - the only bow with damage reduction, and again useful in builds in which you need this, at least worth bringing up for the builds that can make use of it; -2 damage is pretty handy in some cases.
Saying that Zealous is never worth it is the sheerest ignorance. Zealous in PvE is an amazing mod - even with no buffs to IAS, you can easily shoot an arrow per 2 seconds. That's an energy per 2 seconds. You sacrifice a pip, that's an energy per 3 seconds. Math thus tells us that after 3 arrows we have gained 3 energy, and lost 2 to the pip, for a net gain of 1 energy per 6 seconds, or a half pip. Add Dual shots, interrupts, Tiger's Fury/Lightning Reflexes, Quickshot, Barrage, Needling shot etc... Yeah, it's pretty handy.
I can't actually count the number of places I disagree with your assessments, based on solid facts and my in-game experiences; thanks for putting time into it, but your rejection of the corrections offered by the community makes me think deleting it is the best course - you argue against well known facts and tenets of rangering. Saying Barrage is a crappy skill is like saying "I have no idea what I'm talking about, ignore me!" out loud.
Your advice is just so bad on many issues. Recommending a Marksmanship Grip because it's like + damage a % of the time???? Have you looked at the numbers? It's horrible! I guess I really object to the gross generalizations and the misinformation most of all. Obviously there is room for opinion in a guide, that's the point, but you should present justification generally, your reasoning. Saying "Longbow is the best bow in PvE" is a poor statement. Best for what? Better than carrying bow switches? If I saw a ranger using a longbow for everything I'd know he was a poor player; he's choosing a deliberately sub-par weapon for many situations. You can do 20% more damage with a Flatbow/Shortbow for example, so using a longbow to initiate combat and swapping to a shortbow is a reasonable way to handle this.
Anyway, I'm not trying to flame, I'm trying to illustrate a few of the many points in the guide that are innacurate, wrong, or too laden with opinion. If you want to make it acceptable and useful, take the advice of those who know a great deal about the game and incorporate changes, otherwise as you said, deleting it is the best option.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Epinephrine
I can't actually count the number of places I disagree with your assessments, based on solid facts and my in-game experiences; thanks for putting time into it, but your rejection of the corrections offered by the community makes me think deleting it is the best course - you argue against well known facts and tenets of rangering. Saying Barrage is a crappy skill is like saying "I have no idea what I'm talking about, ignore me!" out loud.
Jus because you disagree doesn't make Sha's opinions worthless. Opinions are as always still only opinions. For starting players it is generally a good idea to learn the facts and pick up on opinions from several experienced players. While many of those opinions may contradict, the realization of such contradictions will allow that player to look at those arguments in a new light. I don't see anything wrong with Sha posting his opinions in a guide because it is a guide, not a statistical reference. As long as the reader knows that he is only looking at the opinion of one person, they will be able to benefit from looking at aspects of rangers in a new light.
Epinephrine
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
Jus because you disagree doesn't make Sha's opinions worthless. Opinions are as always still only opinions. For starting players it is generally a good idea to learn the facts and pick up on opinions from several experienced players. While many of those opinions may contradict, the realization of such contradictions will allow that player to look at those arguments in a new light. I don't see anything wrong with Sha posting his opinions in a guide because it is a guide, not a statistical reference. As long as the reader knows that he is only looking at the opinion of one person, they will be able to benefit from looking at aspects of rangers in a new light.
No, opinions can't necessarily be thrown out entirely, but not all opinions are equal, especially when they relate to quantifiables. Opinions can in fact be wrong; if my opinion is that longbows do better damage than shortbows for example that's simply wrong. It's an opinion about something based on misinformation or misconceptions, perhaps borrowing from real life, where the power of the longbow indeed was greater than most standard shortbows (we won't get into composites etc...). Some things stated by Sha may well be his opinions, but they ARE wrong (example - zealous bow not being worth using because of the low rate of fire; proof of usefulness, crunch numbers, you come out ahead in energy while firing. Carry a bow switch if needed). Others opinions of his are based perhaps in a misunderstanding of the role (for example, talking about Vampiric weapons - the point isn't whether the health gain counters the health loss, it's a bonus 5 armour ignoring damage on every shot - that's worth using in builds even if you are losing health) and still others are legitimate opinions, in which alternate viewpoints might be supported.
Sometimes things could be fixed simply by changing the emphasis - I agree that one should always think about the area in question, the party composition and the skills being used by and against you before bringing a spirit along, but his phrasing is negative in the extreme, when spirits are in fact handy in many instances/areas. Other things would be improved by explaining reasoning; still others are odd and inexplicable (Like advising against Edge of Exticntion in PvE ... obviously bringing it along to face the white mantle is a bad idea, but if your party is dying often enough for EoE to be a nuisance it's not the EoE that's a problem.). These come across as irrational judgements, probably based on party wipes due to bad playing and inappropriate laying of blame on the spirit rather than the party failure that lead to deaths in the first place. The failure to properly explain his opinions and the extreme nature of many of his biases leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and as it currently stands I would recommend against using this as a source.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
I don't think that either elite is a waste. There are benefits and shortcomings of both stragedies.
How is there? 75% to avoid an attack and not wasting your elite slot or 100% to not be interrupted by a normal attack, still take damage, still end up needing an Evasive stance to stop actual interrupts and wasting your elite slot. It says not easily interruptable, if it said 'not interruptable' then we'd be on to something.
Sha Noran
Zealous is shit when compared to other bow strings available. Using a Zealous Bowstring is almost as bad us using a Zealous Hammer.
Originally Posted by Evilsod
JR-: PvP is an entirely different environment that involves condition removal. In PvE once you put on the Poison, it most likely will not be removed, therefore making it a waste to sit there with Apply on when you could be dealing additional damage with something else. As for Trapper's Focus, it's already been argued to death. Oath Shot has no place in a PvE environment, and neither does Distortion on a Ranger... if you're going to use Distortion, just use Mantra of Resolve. Epinephrine: Thanks for pointing some of that out, but regardless the Ithas Bow is still shit. I would say the same about the -2 damage in a stance bow; the minor damage reduction is not worth the fact that the bow itself is not max damage. Quote: How is there? 75% to avoid an attack and not wasting your elite slot or 100% to not be interrupted by a normal attack, still take damage, still end up needing an Evasive stance to stop actual interrupts and wasting your elite slot. It says not easily interruptable, if it said 'not interruptable' then we'd be on to something.
You are still forced to "waste your elite" on Oath Shot then.
Finally, saying that Barrage is better than, say, Punishing Shot, is like saying that Whirling Axe is better than, say, Eviscerate. AoE isn't the "omgwtfpwn" only way to play. Learn what direct damage is and then learn how valuable it can be. Call me a nub all you want, I'm sure it makes you feel better about yourselves. I'm not going to post xp number or hours played because numbers mean very little, but I know what I'm talking about, much better than some of you obviously. I'd appreciate it if we just discussed these topics rather than just talking shit about me.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
You are still forced to "waste your elite" on Oath Shot then.
I was talking about Distortion. Even then you can recharge your traps and any spirits you might have instantly too. Which is alot better than the shitty 'no longer easily interruptable'.
Hang on numbers mean very little? Wasn't that the whole basis of your arguement with Snipeous over how to spread Poison. Condition Removal in PvP... whoop de doo. Now meet this thing called Energy. The more conditions you apply, the more pressure the opponents get.
Sha Noran
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
Condition Removal in PvP... whoop de doo. Now meet this thing called Energy. The more conditions you apply, the more pressure the opponents get.
Ok wait that time you just misunderstood me. I was saying that in PvP, Apply Poison is better because of condition removal, making reapplication much easier and more of a burdon.
Azog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
That's it buddy, Admin time. Nothing here is plagerized, and I'm tired of being accused as such.
I really wish that you would quit threatening me with admin sanction. I haven't done anything here that you haven't done.
Azog Azog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
I didn't invent the skills, that's just how I use them. If you want I'll change the f'in names, that's just how I do it. I thought people would look beyond the NAMES OF THE BUILDS and look at what they actually do. I swear to God I'm about to just delete this, I'm so tired of the flames.
As far as the R/E builds I SAID it wasn't the best way, but it's fun. Sorry for... having fun? Ditto. It's not just the name of the builds, it's the fact that you blatantly take credit for the builds. Azog
Epinephrine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
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Quote: As for Trapper's Focus, it's already been argued to death. Oath Shot has no place in a PvE environment, and neither does Distortion on a Ranger... if you're going to use Distortion, just use Mantra of Resolve. That's just wrong. Oath Shot is an incredible skill, PvE or PvP. Distortion makes sense not only because it can prevent interruption but it also prevents damage. That's a pretty important distinction. As well, look at the costs - Mantra of resolve you take the damage, pay a bunch of energy and don't get interrupted. Distortion you pay a smaller amount of energy not to take damage and not get interrupted. True, there are situations where resolve is better (particularly with mesmers around) and likely times when Trapper's Focus makes sense (again, mesmers with Cry of frustration come to mind) but Distortion is a solid skill for many classes - and paying less than anyone else to activate it is a nice bonus.
Quote: Epinephrine: Thanks for pointing some of that out, but regardless the Ithas Bow is still shit. I would say the same about the -2 damage in a stance bow; the minor damage reduction is not worth the fact that the bow itself is not max damage. No, many builds don't need max damage. Trappers for example. A non max bow, with a nice benefit like damage reduction or extra armour is worth using, especially if you need a bow for the build anyway (examples, my pet-choking gas build with no marksmanship - it deals pet damage while having full interrupting, and can cover the re-application of choking gas with disrupting lunge; handy for taking on a boss like rotscale. Any build using Oath Shot pretty much, or a build like a toucher with pin down, or in fact any build using a utility skill with a bow but delivering damage another way.) Saying non max bows are shit is ludicrous - bows can be used for purposes other than damage, like interruption, condition delivery, energy denial, recharge effects, energy gain and so on.
Quote:
Yes, I play a ranger. I play two. I know the difference between the two skills. I used to use Poison Arrow, but found Apply Poison to suite my uses better. Trying to discredit others based on their difference in opinion is rather insulting and a weak attempt at trying to prove you are right by making personal attacks at others.
I admit I am not THE most experienced ranger in all of Tyria, but my ranger was my first character and I have been using him for about a year now. I have capped all the Tyrian elites for Archon and have played him completely through Prophecies and halfway through Factions. Have I done absolutely everything there is to do with him everywhere? No, but I think I have enough experience to be able to know which of two skills works better for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
To say it again, I'm talking about PvE here. A Ranger's role and thus skill use is very different in PvP, and that's just not what I'm talking about here.
What makes you think that we brought up anything to do with PvP? The numbers shown by everyone showed experience, which, yes you can earn experience from PvP, but the majority is from PvE. If nothing else, the titles from Evilsod should show you this. There is proof that he has done every mission from Tyria and only lacks one from Cantha.
As for me personally. my experience is 80-90% PvE. I have dabbled in PvP a bit, but mostly limited to Random Arenas, Fort Aspenwood, and Alliance Battles with few exception.
True numbers don't always show the whole story, but when you make a point to accuse us of not having experience actually playing the game, the numbers showing that we have played the game is all that is needed to prove otherwise.
Quote:
You forgot the Wailing Lord's forest. I feel confident with a druid armor there but I know many people who don't and carry a studed leather set. About drakescale: you don't need to have all the foes with fire attacks to justify its use. I use to replace my druid set by a drakescale in the tombs for example when I have a bad dp since terrorweb dryers are among the main damage dealers.
Because there are too many inaccuracies riddled throughout it for it to be used as a definitive guide at this point in time. It needs some refining first. With that in mind...
*cracks knuckles*
Quote: Originally Posted by Sha Noran NEVER put points into an attribute just to use ONE skill out of that attribute. Find another skill in a different attribute to use, then consolidate your points. A classic example of this is Tiger's Fury. People put points into beast mastery for this skill when they could easily replace it with Lightning Reflexes and consolidate their points.
Excellent advice as far as attribute points are concerned, not the best of examples. I'd point out the people who use WS for Troll Unguent alone, but that's a personal pet peeve. The reason I think Tiger's Fury is a poor example is because Tiger's Fury operates decently well at rather low attribute points, and so spare points which wouldn't meaningfully increase your focus attributes can actually give Tiger's Fury some use. Unfortunately, Lightning Reflexes is a horrible replacement for Tiger's Fury. When I first played ranger I thought it was the other way around, that Lightning Reflexes was vastly superior. After all, they both give added attack speed and Lightning Reflexes gives defenses as well. This, however, was before I understood the concept of downtime. With as little as 4 points spent, Tiger's Fury has a downtime of 3 seconds or 30%. With as much as 13 points spent supporting it, Lightning Reflexes still has a 35 second or 78% downtime. It's a huge difference and one that shouldn't be overlooked.|
Finally, saying that Barrage is better than, say, Punishing Shot, is like saying that Whirling Axe is better than, say, Eviscerate. AoE isn't the "omgwtfpwn" only way to play. Learn what direct damage is and then learn how valuable it can be.
I know I never said that. I maintain that barrage is a good skill, though for different purposes than punishing shot. Quote:
Looking at the sentence i took it from;
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I see absolutely no mention of Apply Poison been better in PvP. I see you saying that in PvE it doesnt get removed (Yes it does, Empathetic Removal, Draw Conditions, 2 spring to mind from some of the common enemies). Yet if you run it at 12 WS you get 13(?) seconds of poison. So unless your attacking a single target (at which point 4 degen is still nice) then by the time you've finished spreading it around a bit it will have worn off the first targets. So your still wrong...
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No, many builds don't need max damage. Trappers for example. A non max bow, with a nice benefit like damage reduction or extra armour is worth using
That was a bad example. If your trapping, wheres your staff? With the exception of Oath Shot trapping possibly. Quote:
... which is what I said in my original post. Zealous is never the ideal bow option other than when running Ranger energy denial in PvP, and as I have stated around a million times already, this is a PvE guide.
Using a non-max bow in 99% of situations is ludicrous. In the situations where it's at least feasible (Oath Shot trapping I guess?) you could use a Candy Cane Bow, which has no requirement and therefore will still be doing more damage than say, an Ithas Bow, which you most certainly will not meet the req. on. I would make more reasonable arguments if it wasn't so impossible to even hold a conversation with most of you. You think I'm a dumbass, and have no respect for anything I've written, etc. You tell me I can't just say when you're wrong, yet Quote: |
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Originally Posted by Epinephrine
Some of what you said makes sense, some is questionable, some is wrong.
I'm willing to debate some things, but most of the arguments you people are making on this thread are absolutely stupid. Just stupid. No one wants to argue my use of Storm Chaser in most builds, which has actually questionable usage. You want to argue whether Poison Arrow is better than Apply Poison. Which is an absurd discussion. Which is why I stopped talking about it. Anyone who actually plays Ranger will know the difference.
I would post for hours specifically detailing each advantage of certain skills over others, but I actually play the game. I encourage you to do the same if you, for example, really think that Oath Shot trapping will get you interrupted less than Trapper's Focus trapping and is really so much better for the group. I TF trap and Alesia can keep me alive fine, along with everyone else. The damage reduction from 75% evasion doesn't make up for the traps interrupted from that 25% chance of interruption.
Epinephrine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Using a non-max bow in 99% of situations is ludicrous. In the situations where it's at least feasible (Oath Shot trapping I guess?) you could use a Candy Cane Bow, which has no requirement and therefore will still be doing more damage than say, an Ithas Bow, which you most certainly will not meet the req. on. |
As for bows, if you are trapping you don't give a crap about your bow damage, and yes, you want a bow for Oath Shot trapping. Not everyone runs marksmanship. The roughly 1 DPS difference between a candycane bow and another bow like an Ithas bow (if firing constantly, which you won't be doing anyway in those builds) is EASILY outweighed by the extra 5 armour, or by a -2 damage reduction.
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I'm not sure who in particular you are talking about here, I am not trying to call you any name, nor assume you to be something so oversimplified. You have had several flaws in your guide however, so people will call you on them, no matter how much time you spent on it. Either you can deal with this like a grown mature human being or decide that an attack on your pride is too much, delete everything, and walk away. Others will not always be nice about how they point out flaws, but you can be insulted and start flinging mud back, or deal with it. I would prefer to see a bit more maturity on both parties.|
I would post for hours specifically detailing each advantage of certain skills over others, but I actually play the game. I encourage you to do the same if you, for example, really think that Oath Shot trapping will get you interrupted less than Trapper's Focus trapping and is really so much better for the group. I TF trap and Alesia can keep me alive fine, along with everyone else. The damage reduction from 75% evasion doesn't make up for the traps interrupted from that 25% chance of interruption.
If you are implying that we don't play you are way off. Oath Shot recharges other skils too, like the Throw Dirt that will be employed contantly; 90% miss rate with 75% evasion is pretty certain safety, and the near constant blindness reduces damage very well for the group, and for yourself. SO yeah, I think it works. As you said, we could argue each point forever; I could simply write my own guide. The effort I put into composing these replies is obviously pointless, as you aren't willing to listen to the feelings of experienced players with a good depth of play. I won't bother anymore. For any reading, ask yourself why a guy who is writing a guide can dismiss criticism while clearly not understanding Expertise breakpoints; the 9+1 Expertise listed on half his builds serves virtually no purpose, only getting a savings on 15 and 25 cost skills, of which he either has none or a low frequency skill (like apply poison). There are numerous other faults, but such a basic error is troubling. The fact is that it's not worth my time to point all of them out - especially as you dismiss them. It's currently not a very helpful resource.
XvArchonvX
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Originally Posted by Sha Noran
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Yes, I play a ranger. I play two. I know the difference between the two skills. I used to use Poison Arrow, but found Apply Poison to suite my uses better. Trying to discredit others based on their difference in opinion is rather insulting and a weak attempt at trying to prove you are right by making personal attacks at others.
I admit I am not THE most experienced ranger in all of Tyria, but my ranger was my first character and I have been using him for about a year now. I have capped all the Tyrian elites for Archon and have played him completely through Prophecies and halfway through Factions. Have I done absolutely everything there is to do with him everywhere? No, but I think I have enough experience to be able to know which of two skills works better for me.
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I don't think anyone is asking you to show your stats, since we are not the ones making blind accusations at you. The point was that you basically resorted to making a personal attack on the legitamacy of those who were debating you.|
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
I would post for hours specifically detailing each advantage of certain skills over others, but I actually play the game.
Yes, I also "play" the game, and I in my experience almost never get interupted using an Oath Shot build. Just because that build does work for you, doesn't mean the other doesn't.
Evilsod
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Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Anyone who actually plays Ranger will know the difference.
 No...never... out of the Ranger, Warrior, Elementalist, Ex-Monk, Assassin, Ritualist and PvP slot on this account he has the brunt of the play. Poison Arrow has limited use. I've seen it used in ABs many times just so the Ranger could use Kindle or Read the Wind. The problem is having to use Poison Arrow to poison every target in front of you (usually 4 or above) attracts attention. Attention that recieves a Distracting Shot, as does anything that gets spammed (Flare, Vamp Touch/Bite, Stone Daggers, etc). Sure if you get Apply Poison distracted you've lost some damage been as you won't have any other Preparations. In PvE, things can and do live for over 10 seconds, even if the damage it does is healed in a single Healing Signet you've given your squishy 2 seconds to get away. Not to mention (oh how i love this skill...) Wail of Doom from Shiro'ken Necromancers. With Apply Poison you can still poison things, Poison Arrow you can't, its a very specific example but its still an example. Been able to spread poison around without having to spam a single skill which often has a dodgy refire, slowing you down anyway, and keeping your elite slot free definatly beats it in most situations. Its only things like Forest Farming where Kindle Arrows obviously provides more damage and Poison Arrow provides steady degen where i see Poison Arrow been useful. Sha, if your using Alesia when your trapping i honestly don't know why your using TF. She stands next to you anyway which takes practically all the attention off you. Been able to keep Warrior/Assassin bosses near constantly blinded from Throw Dirt by Oath Shot outweighes the possibilty that things in PvE we're paying attention to you. The majority of the time you get VERY little attention as a ranger and then you suddenly get all of it. Even then half the time its Spells which doesn't affect your traps anyway.
SnipiousMax
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Originally Posted by Sha Noran
...I would make more reasonable arguments if it wasn't so impossible to even hold a conversation with most of you....Anyone who actually plays Ranger will know the difference....I would post for hours specifically detailing each advantage of certain skills over others, but I actually play the game. I encourage you to do the same....
I was gonna post more, but I'm done if this is what you think of Epine, Jeno, Sod, Lasher, and Archon.
Lasher Dragon
Just to throw my ego into the ring...
That's almost all solo, with very few UW runs, no Tombs runs, no FoW farming. I'm guessing about 85% of the time I'm farming with her I'm solo, 10% or so I'm with one guildie, the other 5% I may run with a group, but it's a rare occurence and usually at the request of someone else. Yeah, I farm a lot, just not the places that require teams... kind of a loner. I am usually always ready to help out on a mission though - I tend to get some nice drops helping others. 
Sha Noran
Impressive guys, but again as I have stated, numbers mean very little and unless severely provoked I see no reason to post mine.
To say it again, I'm talking about PvE here. A Ranger's role and thus skill use is very different in PvP, and that's just not what I'm talking about here. Poison Arrow's ability to be used in combination with a damaging preperation adds a good bit of damage that cannot be ignored in PvE. Once everything is Poisoned with Apply, Apply is doing nothing. That's what you guys don't seem to be getting here. As for Oath Shot trapping, I suppose that it is, yes, a legitimate build; that doesn't make it better. 0% chance of interruption is better than 25% chance of interruption, and if you want you could bring Whirling and Focus, then only hit Whirling if you suddenly get full agro (which shouldn't be needed more than once per 45 seconds anyhow). TStyx
What a carry on!
Thanks for the guide Sha an interesting read for a new Ranger player like me and quite fun to try the different builds. As I've played more I find I don't agree with some comments and I've changed some builds to suit myself but that's the whole idea isn't it, to get people thinking but at least giving them a starting point. Cheers again 
Sir Mad
< Too lazy to upload a screeny of his H window atm
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As for Oath Shot trapping, I suppose that it is, yes, a legitimate build; that doesn't make it better. 0% chance of interruption is better than 25% chance of interruption, and if you want you could bring Whirling and Focus, then only hit Whirling if you suddenly get full agro (which shouldn't be needed more than once per 45 seconds anyhow).
I think you miss the point. Using Oath Shot for "melee" trapping (as opposed to UW trapping) allow you recharge whirling defense for example, yes, but it also allows you to spam trap. With trapper focus, you can use serpent's quickness for that purpose, but you may be a pain for your monk since stances do not stack and therefore you cannot have a defensive stance (AND unless you have EW/QZ you can't have it active all the time). That's probably not a problem for melee fighting foes, but you're screwed with ranged attacks. With oath shot, you can spam more traps but some will be interupted. Not 1/4. Less than that since the 1st trap you should use is dust trap. The result is probably the same than with serpent's quickness/traper's focus. BUT you avoid 75% of the attacks, and trust me, your monk wil enjoy that. |
EDIT - And if you use whirling with your build as you suggest, then you can't use serpent's quickness, and have no way to spam traps.
XvArchonvX
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Originally Posted by Sha Noran
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As for me personally. my experience is 80-90% PvE. I have dabbled in PvP a bit, but mostly limited to Random Arenas, Fort Aspenwood, and Alliance Battles with few exception.
True numbers don't always show the whole story, but when you make a point to accuse us of not having experience actually playing the game, the numbers showing that we have played the game is all that is needed to prove otherwise.
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... lol. Evilsod was referring to the use of Poison Arrow in AB, which is PvP. That's what I was referring to with my comment on PvP, where I would probably agree that Apply would be more useful.|
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Poison Arrow's ability to be used in combination with a damaging preperation adds a good bit of damage that cannot be ignored in PvE. Once everything is Poisoned with Apply, Apply is doing nothing. That's what you guys don't seem to be getting here.
This is a point both you and I and everyone else here has said. We have heard you and presented our counter points. I have quoted this and restated this. Unless you have any other factors not taken into consideration, it really isn't necessary to repeat yourself anymore.
Sha Noran
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Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
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Originally Posted by Sir Mad
EDIT - And if you use whirling with your build as you suggest, then you can't use serpent's quickness, and have no way to spam traps.
Normally you would use Serpents, but if you got some ridiculous agro on you you could throw up Whirling.
Sir Mad
I had read your guide untill the skills part so far so I'm a bit late for that, but here we go.
Studded Leather: This is probably the worst set of armor a Ranger could own. Though it does physically look nice on your character, nothing looks nice on your dead character. You should note that this armor gives bonus armor against elemental attacks (as do the rest besides basic Leather) as well as a bonus against Lightning Damage. There are two factors that destroy this armor's usefullness:Quote: 1. How often in the game are you faced with Lightning Damage? ... Can't remember, can you? Gargoyles in Ascalon maybe? 2. What is the main bonus attribute of Elementalist Lightning Skills? That's right folks, armor penetration. You're better off protecting yourself from something else than trying to protect yourself against something that you can't protect yourself from in the first place. |
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All of the "slaying" mods are pretty much a joke for any average Ranger or any Ranger who has not beaten the game thoroughly. I use them, but I would strongly suggest that only the expert Ranger with a thirst for further adventure even attempt to use them.
Check the price of a +20 deathbane grip to see how popular they are... I personally use 3 kinds of slaying grips: deathabne for the tombs and some parts of FoW, skelettonslaying, obviously for the seletons of FoW, and 2 pruning bows for the Wailing Lord's forest. +20% damage against all the foes of an area (nb: area, not map) is must-have if you're OK hp/AL wise and can afford it.
Sha Noran
I have a Charrslaying, Dwarfslaying, Dragonslaying, Demonslaying, Deathbane Pruning and Tenguslaying. My comment in the guide was simply that it probably wouldn't be wise for a brand new Ranger to run out and buy any slaying mods until he had specific spots for their use.
Originally Posted by Sir Mad
EDIT: Quote: You forgot the Wailing Lord's forest.
That's a good call, as nearly everything in there does deal Lightning Damage, however average Joe Ranger probably isn't going to be there on a regular basis unless he's solo'ing it, and even then I would go for the Energy that Druid's offers.
BlackOut777
Sha Noran:
Thank you for taking the time to put your findings/thoughts/tests/ideas on paper and putting it up here. I have to say, I have always enjoyed playing the Ranger but was always a bit unsure about the nitty gritty part of being a ranger. Your guide has been extremely helpful in understanding this class a bit better!! Thank you for taking the time to put it up here!!
Sha Noran
BlackOut777: Thanks, I'm glad to hear it's helped you. Hopefully the discussion that followed it is also stimulating the Rangers who read it to go out and find for themselves which version of things works better for them. :-D
XvArchonvX
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Originally Posted by Sha Noran
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
Poison Arrow has limited use. I've seen it used in ABs many times just so the Ranger could use Kindle or Read the Wind. The problem is having to use Poison Arrow to poison every target in front of you (usually 4 or above) attracts attention. Attention that recieves a Distracting Shot, as does anything that gets spammed (Flare, Vamp Touch/Bite, Stone Daggers, etc). Sure if you get Apply Poison distracted you've lost some damage been as you won't have any other Preparations.
In PvE, things can and do live for over 10 seconds, even if the damage it does is healed in a single Healing Signet you've given your squishy 2 seconds to get away. Not to mention (oh how i love this skill...) Wail of Doom from Shiro'ken Necromancers. With Apply Poison you can still poison things, Poison Arrow you can't, its a very specific example but its still an example. Been able to spread poison around without having to spam a single skill which often has a dodgy refire, slowing you down anyway, and keeping your elite slot free definatly beats it in most situations. Its only things like Forest Farming where Kindle Arrows obviously provides more damage and Poison Arrow provides steady degen where i see Poison Arrow been useful. Only that one paragraph was in response to PvP, the rest was with respect to PvE. As I interperet this, it is my assumption that Evilsod was implying that Apply Poison is more useful than Poison Arrow in PvE. Pyro Master
Why hasnt this been stickied yet?!
Doug Warren
I just wanna know, what do you mean "interupter skills", what do they do, and where do you ge them. Also where do you get all of those traps?
Jenosavel
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Originally Posted by Pyro Master
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*cracks knuckles*
Quote: Originally Posted by Sha Noran NEVER put points into an attribute just to use ONE skill out of that attribute. Find another skill in a different attribute to use, then consolidate your points. A classic example of this is Tiger's Fury. People put points into beast mastery for this skill when they could easily replace it with Lightning Reflexes and consolidate their points.
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Quote: Edge of Extinction: I can't believe I actually have to list this, but I see people use it all the time. Think! You're more likely to kill your own group with it than anything else. The only way Edge should be a threat to your party is when you're facing human enemies, and so when you are facing human enemies it's an obvious don't use Edge. However, it is an incredibly frequent thing in PvE that you will come up against enemies that vastly outnumber you and that are not human. In these cases Edge is the saving grace of God himself. The most extreme case of this is Vizunah Square. If you've never played Vizunah Square with a good team both with and without Edge, then I encourage you go see what you're missing, because it's absolutely amazing.
Aside from having human enemies, the biggest case against Edge is one against spirits in general. That would be, if you're in a mission/area that requires constant movement spirits can become a wasted skill slot. You will need to be fighting in one area for some amount of time for spirits to be worthwhile.
Quote: Fertile Season: This spirit looks cool, but because it gives everyone the health bonus, it only drags battles out without changing the outcome. Amen. *sigh*
Quote: Otyugh's Cry: This shout might be nice if ALL the wild animals in the game weren't level FIVE. Completely worthless. You've unfortunately completely missed the point of this skill... which isn't difficult considering the wording of the blasted thing's description. The true power of Otyugh's Cry is that when used it will give all pets within its range a nice armor boost. This means that teams which have several beast masters will benefit incredibly from this. When combined with Call of Protection, you're looking at pets with 100 AL against everything and 15 (assuming high beast of course) damage absorption. Any warrior would kill to have those kinds of stats while tanking.
Quote: Primal Echoes: Besides the fact that you'll mess up your own Monks with this, PVE enemies never seem to run out of energy anyway. Waste of time that could be better spent interrupting those naughty little signets. You're right in that this probably doesn't have too much use outside of PvP. It could be nice in a ranger-stacked team that was lacking in monks (hey, odd team make-ups do exist), but it's not something that would be commonly used for sure.
Quote: Revive Animal: Again, looks cool, but... how many Beast Masters that even want their pet alive are you going to play with anyway? And if they want them alive, won't they bring a pet-res with them themselves? Waste of time, especially when you have to have Comfort Animal along anyway to heal your own pet… I'd agree that Revive Animal is an awful skill, though I've got slightly different reasoning. Comfort Animal casts in 1/6 of the time of Revive Animal, and it has no recharge whereas Revive Animal has a 20 second one. Add on top of this the fact that Revive Animal has a very small radius of effect, and all the skill is really good for is resing the group's pets when those pets all decide to die on the exact same spot at the exact same time. ...so yeah, pretty useless.
Quote: Tiger's Fury: I mentioned this above, but I'll repeat it here. This skill IS decent in certain builds that use Ranger as a secondary (i.e. W/R), but as a primary Ranger, you shouldn't ever have this. It's a Beast Mastery skill that doesn't have anything to do with your pet. Worthless. It's not worthless because it operates well at extremely low attribute point investments. Once you've pumped all your attribute points as high as you can, those three spares that don't fit anywhere can up Tiger's Fury (with a rune) to a 70% time coverage for faster attack rate. That's more than worthwhile enough to use with or without a pet.
Quote: Marksman's Wager: Way, way too many of your arrows are going to get blocked, evaded or dodged (not to mention obstructed) for this skill to be one you can depend upon. Most of the time you'll lose more than you gain. Even if you consistently gain enough, I think one of this skill's biggest problems is that rangers have one of the best energy situations of any class. Rangers aren't too desperate for energy-management elites, and thus can get much better use out of others.
Quote: Oath Shot: Possibly the worst Ranger PvE skill in the game, definitely the worst Ranger PvE Elite. As I stated with Marksman's Wager, far too many of your arrows are blocked, evaded or dodged for this to be dependable. If the skill read "The next shot you fire blah blah blah" you could use this with Called Shot to up your chances of it working. Unfortunately, Oath Shot is the shot you have to hit with, and your chances of this helping you at all are nil. Here you are very wrong. As a ranger you should know which targets you will and will not be able to hit and when. Thus, if Oath Shot required you use it on whatever target you happened to be attacking before hand, then yes. It would suck. However, a little battlefield awareness means that Oath Shot will hit, and it will hit nearly every single time. Why? Because you're not using it unless you know you're going to hit with it.
When you use that bit of common sense and have Oath Shot hitting every single time, then it effectively cuts down all of your skills recharge times to Oath Shot's own recharge time of 20 seconds. When you take into account the huge number of ranger skills which have recharge times much higher than 20 seconds, you get one very powerful elite skill. Here's a short list of skills which get an incredible efficiency boost:
Skill - Before - After (all skills based off of 12 attribute points)
Throw Dirt - 33 second, 72% downtime - 8 second, 3% downtime
Whirling Defense - 42 second, 70% downtime - 2 second, 10% downtime
Dryder's Defenses - 50 second, 83% downtime - 10 second, 50% downtime
Traps don't necessarily have a downtime as much as just a recharge time, so they have to be looked at a bit differently. Let's take Barbed Trap for instance. It wouldn't appear to benefit from Oath Shot since they both have a recharge of 20 seconds. However, the timing of the actual use of Oath Shot can pretty much double the efficiency of it. When Barbed Trap is used and immediately followed by Oath Shot, a second Barbed Trap can be used again right away. Then Barbed Trap and Oath Shot recharge side-by-side so that around 20 seconds later the process can be repeated all over again. Oath Shot allows for a very fast cycling of all traps on your bar.
It's a similar case with spirits. When you do decide to bring a spirit along, the main downfall of them is that they die quickly and have an incredibly long recharge time. Oath Shot negates this weakness and becomes one of the only reliable ways to keep a needed spirit in effect.
Quote: Practiced Stance: This might be an ok skill if it weren't an Elite, but because it is you should never use it. Of course, people tend to bring up its effectiveness when combined with Choking Gas, but honestly… just bring Broad Head Arrow if you’re that desperate. Never say never. /cliche
Broad Head Arrow can't act as a mobile Maelstrom which doesn't trigger AOE flight. Choking Gas can, and Practiced Stance allows you to pretty much wipe out Choking Gas's considerable downtime. When your party is in need of an AOE interrupt, Choking Gas + Practiced Stance is the only way to go.
Quote: Barrage: Ugh, I'm gonna take some crap for this because I know there are a lot of Barrage fans out there, but I'm gonna lay it out there for you. Barrage is a crappy Elite. Maybe if it were a normal skill that cost a bit extra, it would be ok. But it strips your preparations, and for what? 6 arrows. Sounds great.... until you begin to try to remember when the last time there were 6 PVE enemies close enough together to take the hits. You're much better off with Poison Arrow or Melandru's Arrows. Play in Cantha much? If there's one trait of Cantha that strikingly separates it from Tyria it's the number of enemy bodies packed into small places. Barrage can easily and consistently hit 3 enemies in Cantha and often hits many more. Here are some numbers (though I wouldn't include them in a guide itself, as they were rounded a bit and thus could be more accurate, however for simple illustrative purposes they're fine)
Skill - DPS - DPS with RTW - DPS with Kindle - pips of energy consumed (considered with 12 Marks, 10 WS, and 13 expertise; pips of energy is before preparations are used; DPS calculated is in addition to the normal bow damage)
Barrage (1 hit) - 6.5 DPS - 3 pips
Barrage (2 hit) - 18.4 DPS - 3 pips
Barrage (3 hit) - 30.2 DPS - 3 pips
Barrage (4 hit) - 42.1 DPS - 3 pips
Barrage (5 hit) - 54 DPS - 3 pips
Barrage (6 hit) - 65.8 DPS - 3 pips
Barrage (7 hit) - 77.7 DPS - 3 pips
Poison Arrow - 8 DPS - 12.5 DPS - 16.5 DPS - 1 pip**
Melandru's Arrows - 6 DPS - 16.5 DPS against enchanted foes - .4 pips
Determined Shot - 1.7 DPS - 6.2 DPS - 10.2 DPS - .6 pips
Focused Shot - 11 DPS - 15.5 DPS - 19.5 DPS - 3 pips
Hunter's Shot - 8.6 DPS - 13.1 DPS - 17.1 DPS - 1.2 pips
Marauder's Shot - 5 DPS - 9.5 DPS - 13.5 DPS - 2.5 pips
Needling Shot - 4.2 DPS - 8.7 DPS - 12.7 DPS - 1.5 pips
Melandru's Shot - 4.2 DPS - 8.7 DPS - 12.7 DPS - 2.14 pips
Penetrating Attack - 5 DPS* - 9.5 DPS - 13.5 DPS - 5 pips
Power Shot - 3.6 DPS - 8.1 DPS - 12.1 - 2.5 pips
Precision Shot - 3.6 DPS - 8.1 DPS - 12.1 DPS - 2.5 pips
Splinter Shot - 2.6 DPS - 7.1 DPS - 11.1 DPS - 3 pips
Sundering Attack - 5 DPS* - 9.5 DPS - 13.5 DPS - 5 pips
Uh, yeah. So it's quite clear that while Barrage isn't the be-all end-all elite for rangers, it most certainly isn't the worst one either. In areas where enemies are all too plentiful, which a good portion of Cantha qualifies for, Barrage can quickly becomes a power-house attack skill.
*I didn't take into account the armor penetration, which means these values will be quite low. However, calculating it with AP was more effort than I felt like putting into this reply.
**If the team is doing well and enemies are dying quickly, the energy costs of Poison Arrow sky-rocket
Quote: Concussion Shot: Was there a typo when making this or what? 25 energy for an interrupt, some damage, and maybe Dazed? This skill might be ok for 10 energy... maybe even 15. But for 25 energy you might as well strip your skill bar and just bring Concussion Shot, Troll Unguent, and Marksman's Wager (oo... maybe a staff with an energy bonus too... could I be on to a new build?!?![/sarcasm]) because your out of energy right off the bat. At 9 expertise the 25 energy cost drops to 16. At 13 expertise it drops down to 12. So while this is one of the most expensive ranger skills in the game, saying that it's going to wipe out your energy instantly is quite the exaggeration. Concussion Shot has the cost it does because it is an incredibly powerful skill. It's the only non-elite ranger skill which causes dazed, and when used properly can be a great asset. No, you're not going to use it to try and catch Orison like you might with Savage Shot, but it is absolutely fantastic when faced with enemies that have one or two long-cast spells on their bar. All it takes is one guaranteed interrupt to completely shut down a caster for a good period of time, and thus this skill is fantastic against nearly all eles, a good portion of the game's bosses, and that annoying corrupted Kuunavang.
Concussion Shot may require a more specific scenario to shine than do other ranger interrupts. However, PvE allows you to tailor yourself to each and every enemy you will face and thus makes Concussion Shot a great skill.
Quote: Hunter's Shot: Now this skill is, admittedly, good in PVP because everyone is always running around. Unfortunately, trying to catch a moving enemy to cause bleeding in PvE just isn't worth it. There is a damage bonus, but you're much better off with Penetrating Attack. Agreed 100%. Hunter's Shot is nice for it's low energy cost, but rarely will give the bleeding outside of specific cases (such as soloing with Ignite Arrows or having a Fire Storm ele around).
Quote: Precision Shot: A lot of people use this because, "Hey, its just like Power Shot, but better!" If only this were true. Note in the fine print that this skill tells you that it's "easily interrupted". This translates to "if you're taking fire, this skill WILL NOT WORK". You would think that you would be able to get the arrow off without being interrupted... but you can't. It's an unfortunate truth, to be sure.
Quote: Choking Gas: This skill would be really nice if it lasted just a little bit longer. As it is, you can't interrupt enough skills with it to make it worth it. You could, feasibly, use this combined with Practiced Stance... but you're much better off with Punishing Shot or even BHA. As I mentioned earlier, Choking Gas is the only AoE interrupt in the game aside from Maelstrom and it doesn't trigger AoE flight like Maelstrom does (unless you're trying to be a machine gunner, which isn't usually the case). With Practiced Stance, Choking Gas's downtime is reduced to the time it takes you to squat down and cast the preparation. When you're in an area with numerous enemy nukers then a good Choking Gas ranger is the difference between light and day. The first area which springs to mind is the Fire Island Chain where there's at least one area swarming with Meteor-Shower-packing fire imps.
Quote: Frozen Soil: Yet another PVP favorite that is useless in PVE. Trust me, you'll only stop yourself or others on your team from getting rezed. This will remain true until ANet starts putting a res sig on each and every enemy. If that day ever arrives I do believe I will cry like a baby.
Quote: Healing Spring: This is actually usable in PVP, but I would strongly recommend you leave it behind for PVE. Healing your allies isn't your job. The easily interrupted part in particular finishes it off as worthless. Bring Troll Unguent and be happy you did when it saves your ass. Healing Spring isn't the greatest most of the time, but it could be beneficial if there's a minion master around. Still, it requires the same protections any trap would, and I can't say I've seen too many groups that combine a minion master and a trapper. If you ever find yourself in that set-up though, it'd be something to consider.
Quote: Muddy Terrain: Monsters can, I suppose, feasibly stop you from running away or by them with this. As far as real people using it.... why bother? I've never figured it out myself.
Quote: Nature's Renewal: Talk about suicide. This will destroy your own Monk's (not to mention Mesmer and Necro…) build long before effecting the enemy. Unless you're using a team composed entirely of rangers and warriors, in which case you've probably got some other problems to be worrying about.
Quote: Debilitating Shot: As I've stated before, PVE enemies have ridiculous amounts of energy anyway, and they mysteriously never seem to run out. Maybe if this skill had a variable... but 10? Get out of here. Even energy starved Warriors and Rangers laugh at the loss of 10 energy. Worthless. Having played both PvP and PvE I can say that I'm really not convinced that PvE enemies have more energy than PvP ones do. The problem is that baby-sitting any single enemy to keep them at 0 energy and thus useless makes you just as useless as they are. In PvE you're better off just killing the foe than trying to keep them at 0 energy.
Quote: Fur Lined: This is an interesting set of armor indeed. It gives bonus armor vs. elemental attacks as well as an even better bonus when faced with Cold Damage. Not bad, but not particularly great... until you start to think strategically. I have seen Ranger's successfully use this armor set combined with the spirit Winter to effectively reduce their elemental damage to nil. A pretty neat idea, but in my opinion it's not worth carrying the spirit around for. This set might also be for you if you find yourself only using your Ranger in the Shiverpeak areas, i.e. Sorrow's Furnace. It's nifty to use with Greater Conflagration, Winter, and Mantra of Frost for soloing as a ranger. I used it to great effect when doing the Meguuma Jungle Titan quest with a 2-man party. Like you said though, it's probably not something to be doing all the time.
Quote: Drakeskale: This armor also has its advantages, but their numbers are less than that of the Fur Lined. Giving bonus armor vs. elemental attacks and a further bonus vs. Fire Damage, it might be used effectively in the Fire Island area. Unfortunately, very little of the game is played there. It should be noted that Greater Conflagration could be used in combination with this armor to limit damage... but it's not worth dragging the spirit around and it's definitely not worth blowing your Elite on. I'd agree that this one isn't worth it. If you're going to be bringing Greater Conflag for damage reduction purposes, you might as well go all out and bring Winter, Mantra of Frost and a Frostbound set instead.
Quote: Druid's: Finally, we arrive at the best armor choice for most Rangers. This armor gives the standard non-Leather bonus against Elemental damage, and also provides your energy-starved Ranger with bonus energy. The advantage of this armor over the others is hardly worth getting into; the difference should be clear. I would strongly recommend that you use this armor as opposed to the others. Sha's main set of armor is a 15k set of Marhan’s Grotto Druid's dyed pink. It looks good, it keeps me alive, and it gives me the energy to take out my opponents. As far as Prophecies is concerned, you're right. This is really the only set to consider for normal play.
Quote: Explorer’s: Explorer’s is a really odd armor set to me. It gives you a small amount of additional bonus health, but that’s it. If you need more health, get a rune, or a mod for your bow, not this armor. Energy is what Ranger’s are starved for, so Druid’s is still a better route. I really disagree that rangers are energy starved. Elementalists are energy starved (hence why they get Energy Storage). Monks can be energy starved. Mesmers can be energy starved. With decent to high Expertise, however, a ranger should rarely have energy problems.
The interesting thing which the Explorer's set offers is the ability for rangers to confidently use a Superior-Major rune combo. Being a hard target in the back-lines always made the Sup-Major combo a possibility. However, there was always the off chance that you'd come under heavy fire and go down rather quickly. This armor set can negate some of that, especially once DP starts coming into the mix.
Quote: Sentry’s: This armor’s bonus offers an additional 10 armor while your Ranger is in a stance. That’s decent I suppose… but if you’re in a stance, you’re generally already evading a good percentage of damage anyway. There are better options, particularly if you’d like additional armor, such as… The only time I can think of when this would be nice is when you're using Tiger's Fury. With its tiny downtime and its IAS, it's a rather nice stance to have up continuously. It's not for everyone all the time, but it definitely is a common scenario that would benefit from the Sentry's armor.
Quote: Scout’s: Now this armor is actually decent. If Druid’s wasn’t so incredibly just what a Ranger needs, this would be the armor of choice. If you’re doing anything reasonable with your Ranger (i.e. NOT Barrage) you’ll be under the effect of a Preparation all the time, meaning you’ll have bonus armor all the time. That’s a big thumbs up from me… but Druid’s is still better. :-P No need to imply that Barrage usage is being unreasonable. There are definitely times when Barrage is an excellent skill.
That point aside, this armor's usefulness comes down to the fortitude vs. defense mod argument. Is it better to have extra health or extra armor? How much extra health is equivalent to how much extra armor? It really depends on what the enemies you're facing at the moment are doing, and I'm not sure you can make a definitive statement one way or the other. Sometimes one will be better and sometimes the other will.
Quote: In summary, I would suggest the Druid's above all else. If you find a reason to use one of the others instead, please tell me. I honestly can't think of any that are strategically sound. I'd suggest Druid's first as well, since it will be the most versatile armor. If you were going to only invest in one armor set for your ranger, you'd probably be best off with Druids. However, there are definitely good reasons to use the Sentry's, the Scout's, or the Frostbound armor.
Quote: All the different types of bows and bow mods in the game have a purpose and place. The difficult thing is to choose a set of four that you can keep with you on your quick-switch keys that will take care of you in most situations. Golden advice right there. I'd just like to state plainly what was implied in there but might be missed by some: you'll probably need a collection of bows far larger than 4 and will change which four are on your quick-switch keys as you switch builds or in town between areas.
Quote: Longbow: We'll start with my favorite type of bow: the Longbow. As it's name implies, it has a long range; in fact, the longest in the game. There is no trick to this. Longbows have the longest range of any weapon in the game. It's commonly thought that your range with one of these fine weapons is about an aggro bubble and a half, but if you have the height advantage you can shoot much further than that. I personally have shot foes up to two aggro bubbles away from me. For pulling, there is no other option. Period. I'd triple X-out that "Period." since for pulling there is absolutely no difference between a Flatbow and a Longbow. The rest here is good though, especially the bit about height advantage. Hitting an enemy from 2 aggro circles away is priceless.
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Now that I've made that clear and highlighted the best part of the bow, we'll go through it's defects. It's long range forces each of your arrows into a high arc, giving enemies an unfortunately long time to dodge your attacks. The time between arrows has been generally agreed to be about 2.4 seconds, which seems bad, but you have to understand that with a Ranger, your rate of fire is going to be slow no matter what, and will be strongly affected by what skills you’re using. The fastest of the bows (the short bow) only fires arrows every 2 seconds. In my opinion, the extra range is worth the wait.
At times it may be worth the wait, at others it simply isn't. After all, that wait equals out to roughly a 20% damage increase which is quite a lot. People would laugh a damaging ranger into the ground if they didn't customize their bow for that extra 20%, so why would you limit yourself from an extra 20% by not weapon-swapping when possible? There are definitely times to avoid a Longbow. Quote:
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