Would a statement from ANet help? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

PieXags

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Infinite Representation Of Pie And Its Many Brilliances

14 Jul 2005 at 15:10 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

Honestly though, do you think they make changes to peeve people off on purpose? I mean they may have to wiegh the benefit of everyone over a few but still...

I mean they can only hope that it will help, and if it doesn't they can change it again. I guess it gives us a sense of well being and a chance to get it out of our systems, but I'm pretty sure they make changes to improve the game.

I agree that since Anet has been pretty good about communicating to the community it would be a nice to have a statement though.

You're right, and I know they don't want to piss people off.

But that's what I'm here for, to do what I can to let them know how a side of the people think so that hopefully these suggestions can be put into movement along with and in cooperation with others to make the game better as a whole. (Because I NEED something else to do in this game...)

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

14 Jul 2005 at 15:11 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

I don't mean to come across as flamebaiting, but after seeing Diablo basically flat out ruined because it was impossible to complete unless you had uber-everything... well, ANet needs to prevent that. Rare items should be rare. Heck, they are for me anyhow.

Seems the whining is that everyone wants everything now with minimal effort. This is and should be the wrong game for that. Besides, if you can't beat or compete without uber-items, perhaps it's not ANets fault you can't compete.

It's a game of skill, not things.

Very true, it has been re-inforced over and over that this game is skill orientated and not item based.

Aniewiel

Smite Mistress

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Land of AZ, USA

Rt/E

14 Jul 2005 at 15:11 - 43

Creston, while I do not have moderator powers (darn it

), please, I am asking you for the second time, stay on topic. If you want to open a discussion about Chinese sweatshops or whatever, start a new thread. Please.

Dax

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

14 Jul 2005 at 15:11 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

I don't mean to come across as flamebaiting, but after seeing Diablo basically flat out ruined because it was impossible to complete unless you had uber-everything... well, ANet needs to prevent that. Rare items should be rare. Heck, they are for me anyhow.

Seems the whining is that everyone wants everything now with minimal effort. This is and should be the wrong game for that. Besides, if you can't beat or compete without uber-items, perhaps it's not ANets fault you can't compete.

It's a game of skill, not things.

I think I'd be inclined to agree, though I think this thread was whether or not they should give the community a statement or not.

....but it wouldn't surprise me that's the part they are struggling to try and balance

Dax

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

14 Jul 2005 at 15:12 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

You're right, and I know they don't want to piss people off.

But that's what I'm here for, to do what I can to let them know how a side of the people think so that hopefully these suggestions can be put into movement along with and in cooperation with others to make the game better as a whole. (Because I NEED something else to do in this game...)

I see your point

Evan montegarde

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

14 Jul 2005 at 15:12 - 46

The bottom line is that the nerfing has reached rediculous levels. I recently ran a couple drakes in Gates of Kyrta solo (Only killed 8 or so before I died), but I got terrible items, like 3 whites and 1 pile of gold. The other 4 dropped nothing.

I got better items from the chests I found in the mission.

What is there to stop me from doing chest runs to slowly make money, and not something that actually requires a bit of thought?

Acan Vishnu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/N

14 Jul 2005 at 15:13 - 47

I don't think its necessary, no real testing has gone into figuring out whats going on -- so far only knee-jerk reactions have been posted about the update. I personally like it when the community can get together and figure out whats going on, whats best to do and whats not, etc. I've got a theory or two that I intend to check out more fully tonight, and I'd like to think that other people are willing to think their way through whats going on.

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

14 Jul 2005 at 15:14 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

Very true, it has been re-inforced over and over that this game is skill orientated and not item based.

However people's mindsets are item based, therein lies the rub. My Ranger has ascended with basically a piece of guano bow and is still moving on. While I keep my eyes open for something better, the world isn't going to stop and the sun won't go nova if I can't find that uber-gold max damage Bow of Instant Death When You Show It To The Enemy.

drizzt134

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Children of the Underdark

R/E

14 Jul 2005 at 15:14 - 49

would u be happy if u could get your FoW armor in a day? i guess you would... then I think you would stop blaming ANet for their updates. Gush guys, whatta heck? Then whta re you gonan do with the game besides tellign your tales to your friends... Its a game dammit, its just a simple game... You play it for fun and in return you dont expect to get anything back. no one owes you an explanation, that's correct. no one will also not change anything for you just because u want to go in god mode from the first day, thats the other truth... game is the same game and you can still beat it with any weapons or armors you can get from loots. so stop wining please and just play the game. c u in the game...

NiGht_HaWk

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

Somewhere over the rainbow

Gabriels Crusaders

N/Me

14 Jul 2005 at 15:15 - 50

yeah u know, i think it would be a lot better for EVERYBODY if people made threads in the Sardelac Sanitarium about the update. We should actually try to find solutions for the problems people are having instead of just bashing them, like THX has said.

Damon Windwalker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Wandering Gits

14 Jul 2005 at 15:16 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

My personal thought is as yours, Algren. I don't think that ANet owes us anything. But sometimes it is actually in -their- best interest to give a 2 line statement. "We did this, this and this. Like it or lump it."

I gotta agree.

If the game is going in a direction that I don't like (killing PvE and focusing on PvP), then I'd like to know not to waste any more time and money on it.

Not that tehre's anything wrong with PvP - but it's not my thing - I bought this for a PvE game that could actually be true multi-player, with some chance to PvP added in for a little variety. I bought 2 copies of the game (1 for me, one for my wife) so we could both play.

Now, we've all bought games that turned out to not be what we expected - so we put them on as shelf and moved on to something else. This isn't a whine about that - but I would like to know where things stand, and where they are heading.

Principa Discordia

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2005

England.

14 Jul 2005 at 15:18 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

Creston, while I do not have moderator powers (darn it

), please, I am asking you for the second time, stay on topic. If you want to open a discussion about Chinese sweatshops or whatever, start a new thread. Please.

I do have those powers, Creston's rants/flamebait have been deleted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiGhT_HaWk

yeah u know, i think it would be a lot better for EVERYBODY if people made threads in the Sardelac Sanitarium about the update. We should actually try to find solutions for the problems people are having instead of just bashing them, like THX has said.

Quoted for truth.

EmperorTippy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

14 Jul 2005 at 15:18 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acan Vishnu

I don't think its necessary, no real testing has gone into figuring out whats going on -- so far only knee-jerk reactions have been posted about the update. I personally like it when the community can get together and figure out whats going on, whats best to do and whats not, etc. I've got a theory or two that I intend to check out more fully tonight, and I'd like to think that other people are willing to think their way through whats going on.

I have tested Nolani Academy, Divinity Coast and Gates of Kryta. The nerfing is inline with the posts on this forum. As for the economy what would be an acceptable test I would be glad to attempt it. I have tried out a few theriores even going so far as to attempt to solo Hells Precipice wth my best farming build (I killed the first 2 groups of Titians) I got nothing. I personaly never new that Hells Precipice was a farming spot so the changes apear to be global. (May well be a mistake in the update).

Damon Windwalker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Wandering Gits

14 Jul 2005 at 15:20 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by drizzt134

would u be happy if u could get your FoW armor in a day? i guess you would...

Nope - but I don't want to spend 5 years on it either. There has to be a realistic balance.

I think that one thing that ANet needs to realize is that (at least on the PvE side) they have created a world - with an economy, with laws of supply and demand, and tampering with it carelessly can lead to a depression.

Reduce the number of drops, and the amount of gold I can get - fine! But I want my Fissure armor someday! I'm not a pro farmer - I'm not one of the people who say they can farm 10k per hour - heck, I don't think I've ever even had over 10k - it's not greed or anything fior me - it's practicality....

silvertemplar

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Me/N

14 Jul 2005 at 15:22 - 55

Quote:

When the game was released, that first week, I thought it was awesome. It's been downhill ever since. Boss nerfs. drop nerfs. rune nerfs. area nerfs. more area nerfs. enchantment hate all over the maps, to try to combat botting (laughable). more area nerfs. more area nerfs. more area nerfs. more area nerfs. Are you getting my gist?

Reading that sentence , Anet is literally screaming "Stop your UltimaOnline/Everquest PvE antics , go PvP ".

Now i just wonder, if we look purely at PvP..does the "going downhill" still apply? I don't see any threads criticising PvP-core mechanics specifically [only criticism stems from either PvE related unlocking of stuff or are actually fixed/updated very fast ].

Quote:

They say "you'll get better loot playing the game normally".

Maybe "normally" = PvPing with limited PvEing to familiarise yourself with a build and the various skills. Really, i think someone should define what GWs definition of "normal" play is , something tells me PvP owns the LARGER part of "normal play" than PvE.

Quote:

Anet said, quite awhile back, that they would look into "allowing people to unlock / gather these items through normal course of play".
Really? Where are these miraculous quests then that now give you enough gold to buy a decent armor, or a half decent weapon?

I wouldnt be surprised if they meant through PvP. If we can't unlock all armor/weapons via PvP already then i'm sure that we eventually will be able to.

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

14 Jul 2005 at 15:23 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

Nope - but I don't want to spend 5 years on it either. There has to be a realistic balance.

I think that one thing that ANet needs to realize is that (at least on the PvE side) they have created a world - with an economy, with laws of supply and demand, and tampering with it carelessly can lead to a depression.

Reduce the number of drops, and the amount of gold I can get - fine! But I want my Fissure armor someday! I'm not a pro farmer - I'm not one of the people who say they can farm 10k per hour - heck, I don't think I've ever even had over 10k - it's not greed or anything fior me - it's practicality....

if you've never had over 10K why are you even contemplating purchasing fissure armor??? you're about 300K short.

Dax

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

14 Jul 2005 at 15:26 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I had no participation in the creation of this game.
I have no participation in the continued efforst of ArenaNet to update the game
I had no input, no contribution, none of my time was spent building this game

I paid only 50 bucks....and I will never again pay any MORE money to play this game.

ArenaNet doesn't owe me an explanation for why they are doing things....they don't owe you one either.

Thats the thing, they really don't need to explain everything. If I decide to stop playing they are not losing out on my money.

I'm probably on the side of this game needs to be better balanced. If next year the new update comes and I hear that it has become another diablo I'd probably not spend money on it.

Though they have set a precedent of responding to the community so I can understand people's concerns

Evan montegarde

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

14 Jul 2005 at 15:31 - 58

Anet has tried to fix the PVP/PVE balance, but failed, if you ask me. If the game is infact skill based and not an endless grind (like the oh so evil other MMOs), why do I have to grind forever to get enough faction for 1 rune, or to gather unidentified armor to unlock runes?

I always thought the point of GW from the betas, previews, etc was to have an awesome PVP component with international tournaments, strategy needed for teams, etc. On the surface they've succeeded here, PVP at higher levels (Team Arena, GVG, Tombs) is a great way for people to battle it out and actually know what they're doing. The other side was the PVE, which was good. For a while.

The PVP weapons PVP characters chose from are good weapons with good base mods. Why should any joe schmo have access to that from the get go but a PVE character has to grind for hours to get a similar weapon? And the chances of that happening are now very small, unless they get a collector weapon. Collector weapons are the single saving grace of PVE's nerfing, if you ask me, because I can still get a +15% bow. Even if it still requires grinding, although less than any other way.

Borealis

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Black Rose Gaming

Mo/W

14 Jul 2005 at 15:34 - 59

If I wanted a "pvp" experiece playing against real people I wouldn't be playing this game, I've got 4 RP chars. created and don't have the interest for pvp at the moment. I bought a RP game so I could play a RP game,

Heh....300k for fissure armor? What dream world are you living in? You're about a million or two off from the actual cost of it. If I'm correct in needing 105 ecto for a full set you're looking at over a million right there....

Damon Windwalker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Wandering Gits

14 Jul 2005 at 15:41 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

if you've never had over 10K why are you even contemplating purchasing fissure armor??? you're about 300K short.

Wow - thanks for the brilliant insight.

As I said - I hate farming. I have been concentrating on gameplay. But at some point, when I have exhausted the gameplay, that is the only remaining objective.

I thought I made that rather clear?

Acan Vishnu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/N

14 Jul 2005 at 15:48 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

I have tested Nolani Academy, Divinity Coast and Gates of Kryta. The nerfing is inline with the posts on this forum. As for the economy what would be an acceptable test I would be glad to attempt it. I have tried out a few theriores even going so far as to attempt to solo Hells Precipice wth my best farming build (I killed the first 2 groups of Titians) I got nothing. I personaly never new that Hells Precipice was a farming spot so the changes apear to be global. (May well be a mistake in the update).

Ahh, but that is all I've ever seen anyone posting -- tests of the drops while solo'ing. I'm thinking theres a chance that thats part of whats going on, that ArenaNet's idea of going through the game normally is with other people working together. I played a little bit last night with my guild and noticed no changed in the drops, we were actually getting pretty darn good drops just farming for some collector items.

Aniewiel

Smite Mistress

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Land of AZ, USA

Rt/E

14 Jul 2005 at 15:50 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acan Vishnu

Ahh, but that is all I've ever seen anyone posting -- tests of the drops while solo'ing. I'm thinking theres a chance that thats part of whats going on, that ArenaNet's idea of going through the game normally is with other people working together. I played a little bit last night with my guild and noticed no changed in the drops, we were actually getting pretty darn good drops just farming for some collector items.

EXCELLENT thinking! I wonder...since ANet encourages grouping, maybe they've written something in that scales drops UP according to the number of people/henchmen in the party?!

If that would even be a remote possibility, I WOULD LOVE IT! What a nice way to "reward" those who choose to quest/mission/farm with groups. Since the premise of bots is "solo" farming, this would certainly put the kabosh on them!

But, and back to the original topic: This is where a short statement from ANet would help a LOT!

Dax

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

14 Jul 2005 at 15:51 - 63

methinks the thread is going off target....

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

14 Jul 2005 at 15:52 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

EXCELLENT thinking! I wonder...since ANet encourages grouping, maybe they've written something in that scales drops UP according to the number of people/henchmen in the party?!

If that would even be a remote possibility, I WOULD LOVE IT! What a nice way to "reward" those who choose to quest/mission/farm with groups. Since the premise of bots is "solo" farming, this would certainly put the kabosh on them!

It would certainly be brilliant.

Hmm... wonder if bots would start picking up henchies to go with?

Aniewiel

Smite Mistress

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Land of AZ, USA

Rt/E

14 Jul 2005 at 15:52 - 65

Now...I guess I should have just put up a poll. :P\p

EmperorTippy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

14 Jul 2005 at 15:54 - 66

Yes prolly polls are good.

Aniewiel

Smite Mistress

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Land of AZ, USA

Rt/E

14 Jul 2005 at 15:57 - 67

*sends Emperor Tippy forth into Ascalon's denizens to test out the group drop theory*

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

14 Jul 2005 at 16:00 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borealis

If I wanted a "pvp" experiece playing against real people I wouldn't be playing this game, I've got 4 RP chars. created and don't have the interest for pvp at the moment. I bought a RP game so I could play a RP game,

Heh....300k for fissure armor? What dream world are you living in? You're about a million or two off from the actual cost of it. If I'm correct in needing 105 ecto for a full set you're looking at over a million right there....

I have no interest in fissure armor...so yes my numbers are off...I was just pointing out that people shouldn't complain about things that don't affect them.

btw...I give away ecto whenever I have it. Next time I get some I'll send you a whisper.

TheGreatBoo

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

PA

Once again I'm a free agent. Quality guilds ahoy?

14 Jul 2005 at 16:13 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

With this latest update, many people claim utter joy and others decry the "nerfing" of farming areas. I can't imagine the consternation over at Arena Net. No matter -what- they do, how they do it, when they do it and, probably most importantly, why they do it, they are harrangued. It's the old "damned if you do, damned if you don't routine".

So what would help? Is it the WHY of things that is missing here? I think everyone can live with the what, how and when of ANet's updates. But it is the why that seems to be confusing/upsetting to everyone.

If Gaile, or some other ANet representative came on here and gave a "This is why we did it" statement, would it help? Or would it simply be another avenue to berate their update?

I do think it in ANet's best interests to put out some sort of statement with every update. Just a list of changes/patches/bug fixes/enhancements isn't enough, it seems.

I am genuinely curious as to what it is that they can do to help this situation...besides "unnerf" the farming areas?

Please leave reasonable suggestions and/or wish lists for what you'd like to HEAR from ANet.

This is the only post I have read here. You can't please everyone. I find that the updates are good, and am eager to see more from arena.net. They nerfed the griffons because it was becoming an easy target for farming. You can bicker and complain all you want, but deep down everyone realizes that it was too easy. I really find that theres no point in a.net explaining why they did what they did. We all know there was a problem that needed fixed. Now that this area is closed, I'd like to see which area is going to be the next place hit, and the next place fixed. What are you going to do when they have fixed all the areas, because eventually it will happen.

Creston

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

14 Jul 2005 at 16:17 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvertemplar

Reading that sentence , Anet is literally screaming "Stop your UltimaOnline/Everquest PvE antics , go PvP ".

Well, that's fair enough, but then I agree with the OP, they should say so. Simply come out and say, look, PvP takes precedence, PvE is there as fluff to get you levelled up / a bit familiar with your skills, but all the rewards are in PvP.

Quote:

Now i just wonder, if we look purely at PvP..does the "going downhill" still apply? I don't see any threads criticising PvP-core mechanics specifically [only criticism stems from either PvE related unlocking of stuff or are actually fixed/updated very fast ].

I think that the PvPers' major problem with the game was that they were FORCED to do PvE in order to be able to do any decent amount of varied PvP. That has been rectified. However, it seems that the changes to PvE that were done in an attempt to correct PvP issues (changes which are now, really, redundant) aren't being addressed anymore.

Quote:

Maybe "normally" = PvPing with limited PvEing to familiarise yourself with a build and the various skills. Really, i think someone should define what GWs definition of "normal" play is , something tells me PvP owns the LARGER part of "normal play" than PvE.

Well, the only one who can definitely say so is Anet. It does seem to me that you're right, but I doubt they'd ever come out and say it, since the PvEers are presumably a large portion of their intended expansion pack sales.

Quote:

I wouldnt be surprised if they meant through PvP. If we can't unlock all armor/weapons via PvP already then i'm sure that we eventually will be able to.

Then it'd be nice if they said so, so people who really only play PvE can then figure out it's not really going to get any better, so they might as well go somewhere else.

Creston

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Star Riders (StR)

N/

14 Jul 2005 at 16:18 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

However people's mindsets are item based, therein lies the rub. My Ranger has ascended with basically a piece of guano bow and is still moving on. While I keep my eyes open for something better, the world isn't going to stop and the sun won't go nova if I can't find that uber-gold max damage Bow of Instant Death When You Show It To The Enemy.

I read an interview somewhere saying that the game is skill based and that the items were collectables that really make very little difference to gameplay. So weapons don't make much difference. If people are so obsessed over items then perhaps they should play another game or rethink their gaming attitude.

Nerfing is completely justified since farming supports the mass of people who wish to gather items or gold for trade purposes or just plain gold. This just propogates the 'items' mentality. Guild wars is a skill based game. (True I myself would like certain items but they aren't necessary)

To the main point though. The developers shouldn't have to justify why they nerf areas, since nerfing allows the game maintain its core direction i.e one that is skill based. A lot of the other changes that have been made appear to be based on community appeals. I myself have made several appeals to ANet on certain issues and these appear to have been rectified though I'm not saying this is down to me solely

. So obviously ANet shouldn't have to explain themselves on these points, since a lot of the 'WHYs' can be found from scouring numerous GW forums.

In conclusion I feel that ANet is under no obligation to explain themselves. They are professionals and I expect that changes are implemented after debate and discussion.

Damon Windwalker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Wandering Gits

14 Jul 2005 at 16:23 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I have no interest in fissure armor...so yes my numbers are off...I was just pointing out that people shouldn't complain about things that don't affect them.

1st off - it wasn't complaining, it was observation, and offering supporting reason to an assertion. Please learn the difference.

Second off, as you so astutely note the cost - that is obviously not something that one aquires in a day. Therefore, for someone who is planning in advance, it IS something that affects me. Additionally, basic mathematical principles will state that before you can get to a higher number, you have to move through the lower numbers.

Therefore, my observation (which was not presented in an angry, whining, or attacking way - but rather a calm, logical, and supported expression of personal opinion) is perfectly justified and valid, and not worthy of being flamed. Please attempt to apply simple logic before flaming. Thank you.

Borealis

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Black Rose Gaming

Mo/W

14 Jul 2005 at 16:25 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I have no interest in fissure armor...so yes my numbers are off...I was just pointing out that people shouldn't complain about things that don't affect them.

btw...I give away ecto whenever I have it. Next time I get some I'll send you a whisper.

Well, I truly appreciate the offer for the freebies, but at the price that crap is going for I wouldn't feel right. Hit me up though, I'll be glad to compensate you for it, whether it might be weapons or gold or whatever.

NiGht_HaWk

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

Somewhere over the rainbow

Gabriels Crusaders

N/Me

14 Jul 2005 at 16:32 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

It would certainly be brilliant.
Hmm... wonder if bots would start picking up henchies to go with?

That could be easily averted if it only rewarded partying with real players, not henchies.

Reiden Argrock

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Arizona

Shadowstorm Mercenaries

14 Jul 2005 at 16:41 - 75

I have not played since the update yesterday, so I'm not sure exactly how the changes effected the gameplay, but...

People bring grind on themselves. GW can only do so much to put an end to grind, and then it is up to the players to realize what is intentional grind and what their doing themselves, such as farming for rare items. I don't think that the point of rare items was so that players would go spend hours farming highly concentrated mob zones, until they were full of rare's. Especially since this game also was created to enforce skill over equipment. Their is only a few piece of equipment that make a big difference, is armor for warriors (which still doesn't matter much, cause other class's have armor penetration and skills that ignore armor factor) and energy adds to casters. Perhaps the +health or +energy items help, but I have not noticed it in pvp or pve.

By you people saying their is grind because you aren't a maxxed out char, with the ultimate items, because farming areas are being nerfed, that grind is a result of your own lack of understanding. You don't need those items to be a good player, if you spend hours farming rare's, thats your own fault, and you are ignoring the other, more important aspects of the game, that equipment has a much smaller impact on your outcome than skill and understanding of the game mechanics.

GW has no grind for first chars, and very little grind for alternate characters, because no character will be played the same way, in pvp or pve. Guild Wars is still the game that I played in beta, it's still the game I thought it was when I bought it in april, the only difference is that more and more players are forgetting what this game was about, and are trying to turn it into another game where time and equipment will produce the best players.

Just shutup for once and play the game for what it is.

Dax

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

14 Jul 2005 at 16:51 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reiden Argrock

Just shutup for once and play the game for what it is.

here here!!

Grinding and farming is what you make of it. If you benefitted from it previously and not anymore, that's more than alot of people have will be able to do now.

If the game is truly about skill (I keep hearing that repeatedly) you'll just need to compensate.

It's only grinding if you consider it that way.. for some people it's fun

Tuna

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dark Horizons

14 Jul 2005 at 16:56 - 77

To get this back on track I think it would be nice to have a recap on what the actual goal of Guild Wars is. Through all these nerfs I think we (including Arena Net) have lost sight of the 'vision' of Guild Wars is. The only thing that is really clear is that they don't want us to farm. However, I think they way they went about thier anti-farm quest probably wasn't the best. It doesn't seem to me that they are looking to the root of the problems but rather putting a bandaid on the little cut and forgetting about the gaping whole underneath. This type of practice only causes infections and more problems, as we see today.

My theory is that there is some stupid buisnessman at Arena Net that wants to hit broad demographics and increase the longlevity of the game but is forgetting that actions like that are more likely to ruin the game than help it. If people want to farm all day but farming gets hit with the nerf stick, all the farmers aren't suddenly going to go PvP, they're going to find another game.

funbun

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

I forget. Really. I don't know.

Mo/

14 Jul 2005 at 16:58 - 78

I agree with Tuna. Here the problem:

I played through the game a a monk. Uber monk stuff is rare. When I went to fight by mirror I wanted a Uber weapon. What did I do. I farmed for other weapons (Necro, Warrior, I got lots of ranger stuff). I sold those weapons to make enough money to buy an Uber Rare Monk Rod.

Now I can't even farm for other stuff unless I devote my life to GW.

I'm just gonna make a W/Mo and start running people to Drankor's Forge. But GW will probably close off the run before long and utterly destory the run market. Every market that people use to make money GW nerfs it and imposes some stupid commy thing on top of it.

Here's another problem:

Anet has no accountability. Because the game has no monthly fee they can impose whatever commy crap they want. They already got our money and there is nothing we can do about it. If there were a monthly fee we could boycott and hurt then financially and force them to denerf the game.

Dax

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

14 Jul 2005 at 17:02 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

My theory is that there is some stupid buisnessman at Arena Net that wants to hit broad demographics and increase the longlevity of the game but is forgetting that actions like that are more likely to ruin the game than help it. If people want to farm all day but farming gets hit with the nerf stick, all the farmers aren't suddenly going to go PvP, they're going to find another game.

This is true, many decisions are not made by the developers but sometimes by people who don't really even play the game. Having said that, it would be a mistake (in my opinion) to have players who scream the loudest dictate how the game should be run. That would be shortsighted at best

funbun

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

I forget. Really. I don't know.

Mo/

14 Jul 2005 at 17:03 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

This is true, many decisions are not made by the developers but sometimes by people who don't really even play the game. Having said that, it would be a mistake (in my opinion) to have players who scream the loudest dictate how the game should be run. That would be shortsighted at best

It seems to me the players have the best solutions at this point. Anet is screwing themselves up the butt with thorns.