Would a statement from ANet help?

Sorry to me that's one of the #1 problems in the game. I'd rather them nerf that than farming.

Players often only think in terms of whats good for them rather than whats in the best intrest of the game. Just think if everyone you disagreed with got thier way. Plus it is a business to them, many know the ins and outs of what really makes a game flow.

Not saying we should not have good ideas for them to bounce off of.

You're missing the point. Runing Drankor's is the only way to make money now. That or Running escort to the ascension quests. I can't get descent weapons drops to sell anymore. I feel forced to either make run Drankor's or go out and get bot. If I used bots they will ban me. So drankor's is all that's left.

It's like tey don't want people to make money. Like they want punish people for free enterprise. Just like the U.S. government.

If you like farming, fine, you can still do it, it's not like they've made it so you can't kill multiple mobs at a time.
Money is not a neccesity, because equipment will not make you a better player!
The game is called Guild Wars, it is pvp based, if you come to play guild wars, and are mad because they focus on pvp, that is your own problem, the pve is an added bonus

Well that's all relative. It's off topic so I won't get into it, but I've never sold to anyone but merchants and I've got more freekin money than I know what do with (not millions but what the hell do I need to spend it on).

I love PvP, but why should should I have to grind the whole game 3 more times just to get max armor and stuff?

Also, I like the economics of the game. To me, making money, buying, selling, developing other types of GW businesses is just as fun as PvP or PvE. All I'm saying that GW has almost destoryed this part of the game.

What wrong with wanting to make mponey in the game? PvP gets boreing too. But making 100k is fun to me. And a lot of player like making money even if they don't play the game much.

That's a very silly point of view. If you were to consider the amount of programming (not to mention storyline creation, AI creation, graphics, etc) that went into PvE - it's obviously that wasn't an "afterthought/bonus" to PVP. If PVP weere the main focus, why would they have wasted so much time and effort (probably 80% or better of the development) on PvE?

I would guess that more likely, the original idea was to have it be PvE based - with PvP intended as something to do when you were done with PvE....

I agree. If it were PvP based, then it would be more like Unreal Tournament or Counter Strike.

I somewhat agree, but I think it's more along the lines of- what's the con of every PvE MMO game?.. grinding and no PvP.

They tried to make a fairly casual non grinding PvE MMO game with PvP not realising that the PvE part was casual enough for hardcore gamers to figure out ways to get the best stuff really fast. The balance is totally thrown off kilter. so now you got people trying to rush through the game 3 and 4 times complaining that they can't get the stuff fast enough to compete properly.

Unfortunately you are incorrect here, some sort of explanation is in order with any update. While it is true that A.Net owns this game, the update system in effect is completely in their control. If the game updates were in the hands of the players, this would be another issue.

Many players may have liked the game the way it was first released. The drops were good, there were farming areas all over, the SoC system allowed suicide missions to get skills (by not requiring that you kill the mob).

Some players, may have liked the game midway through the string of updates that they know.

These players, in many cases with games and other program updates, could revert to the original and choose which update they wanted. Nevertheless, the system in effect, out of necessity (in my opinion), requires that all players be on the same update.

With this said, as the game gets changed some explanation is in order. The dedicated players of this game are who will spread the word, invite more friends to play, buy the expansion Deluxe Edition and so on. These, are also the players hounding these boards while at work, home, and/or school. If A.Net chooses to take this game in a different direction than the game is, they owe some sort of statement/explanation, to the players that are interested in this information. They owe this explanation as to not alienate the long term player, and make them feel like the game is going a direction that they do not like and there is nothing they can do about it.


I say this, having not played virtually anything today. However, if, so to say, the game has changed drastically, again, I will want some sort of explanation.

I suppose something so small as,

"Due to the botting and factory farming our servers are loaded in a a way we feel is wrong, especially those that are making $ money off of our gold. We are taking steps to eliminate farming all together. We understand that the game may feel like it is being pulled out from underneath you, but we have been lurking this and other boards and have heard of some great suggestions that we think you will feel are a great compromises."

If A.Net told me they had a way to keep money and drops in the guild wars economy, I would rejoice. Alas, we are only left to see hundreds of millions of gold on ebay

Still, I am hearing about updates with no statements what so ever? Not even the old: Adjusted MOBs to more correctly represent their level ( will kill the farmers)? I think not giving this statement is a step towards A.Net regarding the people out their farming to try and afford a superior Absorbsion or Vigor, as the same as a Bot, and that is a real swipe in the groin to Public Relations.

Like I said, I don't really know how this update affected drops, but I feel this point needs to be made. I have seen several players that loved this game, during the BWE, stop playing. Some have been from boredom, some have been from the feeling like the game is not the same as it was and now it is not any fun.

I think what this means is wether you pro or anti UAX, like grind or hate it, like PvP or Pve, we can all agree that Arena Net screwed up.

To be honest repeatedly nuking the same spawns youv found a perfect build to beat (yes I AM talking about those farming videos) for money shouldnt be allowed in guild Wars imo, but there is no real way to stop it.

Going through a mission/area once and getting a heap of cash, then going back through because the awards were super might be acceptable, but doing it 10 times a day for a weekend so you can buy all your characters everything they could possibly desire including end game armor and skills for your lvl 5?

I have issues with that.

I agree. This is not the same game as BWE. It was fun then. Now Anet is just screwing us all. I was emailing a friend and we both are thinking of leaving this game for good.

Eve seem like a good choice.
http://www.eve-online.com/

FREAKN A

this all comes back to our natural and very human quality (or not): GREED!!!! ppl should put their greed behind before getting in a community. Even GW is an online surreal community, it is a freakin' community in the end....

There is no such thing as nerfing. If you do mission and quest normally, the loots are still there. If you keep rezoning and only kill the first few monster groups, then you are not really playing the game and will be hit with the anti-farming stick.

If you are still crying about "nerf", then I suggest you have a look at what was going on at riverside. I hope you enjoy the traffic there.

First: Hello!

Second: A few thoughts.

1) I think that's it's been clear all along that GW is about PvP. I think that ANet should be (and is) doing everything possible to make PvP an enjoyable experience for all.

2) Everything that's needed in the game (PvE at least) is provided without much grind. I could probably sell those crafter swords for 30k a pop - if they weren't crafter swords. You can often recognize a no-nonsense RPG player by the crafter armor and weapons. Although not needed, runes are the exception to this.

3) Most of the grinding / money changing is simply to look different. My character may look "teh win" but he'll as likely to get his butt kicked in PvP or PvE as the guy in the crafter gear (maybe more so - HE probably spent his "toy" money on rune upgrades). Anet encourages this kind of thing with super high priced armor and the suggestion of future visual character enhancements.

4) What I fail to see is why a good PvP system, grindless PvE, and Farming can't get along. Solo farming is just another aspect of the game than many people find relaxing and enjoyable. I just don't understand why it is vilified so. Edit: I'm talking about spending an hour clearing our a area here, not zoning in-and-out to whack one poor critter.

What about farming hurts PvP? A guy shows up in a match in the best looking armor - you should rejoice: he's been wasting is time any money on farming, not practicing. Edit: Twinking low level characters is a good point, this should not be allowed in the lower level areas.

How does farming hurt PvE? With minimal grinding the game has provided you what you need, when you needed it. Runes are expensive, but at least you can get them. You can smile and pat the pommel of your crafter sword every time you see a "WTS: Max Fellbade, 11% > 50%, 60k" message.

Because some of us don't want to play through the game 4 times through just to start a new characxter. Not everyone is interested in PvE. they want PvP. Not everyone in intersted in playing the game. They want tot make 100k on 4 characters each.

But - if I want to (need to?) go out and farm so I can get my next set of armor in PvE - who is my "greed" harming? I'm not taking from anyone else - I'm not ripping anyone off or deprivign them - and I'm not trying to 1-up them. I'm just trying to play the game.... Again - I despise farming - but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I also hate mesmer-type monsters - but that doesn't mean I shoudl give up as soon as I see them, does it?

So if theres no such thing as a "nerf" please explain what happened to the divinity coast barrel. Wait, let me guess.....magic little elves came and took all the good loot it used to drop, or maybe the oakhearts and tengus are raiding it while nobodys looking. How about seekers passage, granted it was full of bots which I don't approve of, but still it was a n e r f.

Just a few examples of nerfs. I could name a ton more but I'm too lazy to type them all out.

Chev, you'll pardon if I don't quote you... that was alot of text but very insiteful

I do see your point, and maybe for some that is true you want an explanation.
However whenever they change something I have always seen what they have changed. In and of that you can get an explanation of why they did it.

Yes there may have been people who were very happy from the get go, and through word of mouth increased sales (I did say that in another post). However, the same is true for people who think this game is horribly imbalanced. Back in my youth I heard back in my retail days a satified customer tells 1 person and a disatisfied customer tells 10. With a year away from the next expansion, it doesn't surprise me that people will stop playing til it comes out

I would think its obvious that it is the long term goal to balance the game so that people who have never played have a good experience, people who are playing now will buy the update, and try to make it so people don't exploit the game.

Sure, there maybe occations they will make bad decisions or ones I don't like. I don't think I need that explained to me what thier goals are everytime they do, the list of changes can tell me enough

simple answer: you hurt me AND every1 else. not directly but by screwing the economy little by little (and think 1000 ppl do the same thing) u gradually start to affect prices. Therefore my answer is YES, YOUR GREED HARMS PEOPLE...

PS. Dont take it personally I say it loud and general bcz u are not the onyl person that thinks that way...

Then they should go play PvP, you can unlock everything by PvPing.

Dude are you awake?

1. Well. it aint working. I don't care how hard they are trying IT AINT WORKING!

2. ??? I played through the game as a Monk an NEVER got a decent monk weapon. I had to buy them all. I've got one Uber monk weapon that I farmed for.

3. Ther fore the need to make money. If they encourage high priced armor then we need ways to make money to buy it. They nerfed the good ways. The on way to make decent money now is to build up a W/Mo and make Drankor'sFoirge runs.

4. THEY ADVERTIZED NO FARMING.GRINDING. THEY LIED. Now we have to farm. They should keep to their word or at least tell us their position. either way they should tell us.

But it doesn't. And apparently you don't unhderstand that.

The cost of a suit of armor does not vary. Whether mosters are dropping 5k each, or if I only find 5 gold per day - the cost of a suit of armor does not change.

So - if I purchase my armor strictly with money from farming, and use materials salvaged only from farming, I am not altering the economy in any way.

It's a grind. 1000-1500 faction to unlock basics skills and weapons. Do you know how many Arena battle that equals? Its a grind. They advertized NO GRIND. They lied.

the armor acts as a gold sink...yes you get something for it...but if the economy was stable....and items were being sold for reasonable prices due to the fact that gold was harder to get....armor would be cheaper.

Lowering the quality of drops from chests is not nerfing. It's called balancing the game since anti-farming was implemented on monsters. It wouldn't be right to have chests always drop good loots while monsters don't.

btw, if you keep rezoning and opening the same chests over and over, then you will also be hit with anti-farming stick. Have you ever noticed that those hard to get to chests in the middle of a long mission give good drops most of the time?

yes 2-3 wins for a high rank guild

2-7 gvg wins (depending on guild level) doing what you would be doing anyway

peanuts for grind unless you consider the pvp you claim to love a grind?

But - the armor prices don't vary. There is no supply and demand when it comes to it. You can't resell armor.

I think that in PvP-speak, "grind" means "anything that you have to earn, instead of just having it given to you..." Therefore, I suppose rank is grind also?

1970...the average price for a car was $5,000
2005....the average price for a car is $27,000 and some change.

the reason for this is because money is more readily available than it was then....however if you look at the prices/income ratio for the two years I quoted the cars were cheaper back then even for the decreased average income. If gold wasn't as available as it is now there would be no choice but to decrease the value of the armor...and yes you would be saving yourself time and grind over the long run....we see inflated prices BECAUSE people have more gold than you can possible use in this game. Remove the gold and you'll start to see more reasonable prices on the things you NEED....this process is a lengthy one and out of the gate arenanet made a HUGE mistake in not expecting this to happen...but they are slowly attempting to fix that problem. Ofcourse this means that for a while you'll have to go without.

If you like PvP and bought this game solely for PvPing, then how is it a grind doing something you like?

uh wait... would you like a game where all skills are ready-made? GW is the wrong game for you then. Go play CS or Warcraft3.

Run an entire normal mission on your own and monitor the rate of drops. I guarantee you'll find drops are higher quality than farming. There are PLENTY of times when i'll enter a map and kill something and on my first 2 kills have a purple, then a gold drop. Honestly, its like the game is watching out for me.

More to the point, new players, my brother being one, realllllllllly hate having to waste 6 months of casual play to get all the skills and unlock the good item parts for pvp. In my first 3 hours of playing i was done the first mission, and was at level 8, while after 3 hours of casual play my brother had been at level 5 in pre-searing. The point is, people with spotty time cannot build up a pvp viable character in a decent amount of time. Having to pay 100k+ for one mod doesn't faze a farmer, after all they have 800k in the bank.

More to the point, they have NOTHING TO DO, and thus farm s'more, meanwhile, my brother just runs missions and can't get involved with the economy at all. I've got my 1000k after doing UW and FoW for fun with my guild, but we didn't farm: we gutted the entire place for fun. The only place i haven't been is past the burning forest in FoW, but that's because i'm lazy O_o.

You are confusing items with fixed values (like armor, salvage kits, etc) with things that have prices that vary based on demand (such as materials, rare materials, dyes, and runes).

However, I stand by my statement - if the gold I use does not take away from anyone else, and is used to buy a fixed-price item that I cannot resell, then I do no harm to anyone if I farm to get it...

The harm comes in with the variable-priced items such as uber weapons and runes - come on, 47 plat for Superior Vigor (last time I looked)? Higher prices = more farming (or buying gold off eBay) = more gold available to spend = more demand = higher prices.

I'm observing that they are TRYing - and rightly so. I won't argue how well they've done, but I agree that no PvP should have to play PvE if they don't want to.

I'm not talking UBER, I'm talking good enough. Although a lot of the stuff available in the desert is pretty high end.

And you DON'T HAVE to grind to play the game. If you'd look at my post as a whole, I agree with you - I don't see a reason to discourage farming. You don't NEED a 15k armor. You don't NEED to pay 30k for 5 more hp than 1k would have bought you. But you and I both WANT them, and I don't see how making them completely unattainable helps the game in any way.

there is no such thing as a "fixed price" in a working economy...

This isn't a class on economics. This is a discussion about Guild Wars. The price of some items, like armor, salvage kits, etc - do not vary.

Exactly.

Guild wars is a grind. I play only like to play PvP. I need to earn more skills from pvping. So it is a grind playing guild wars.

I quit guild wars, switching to warcraft3. There isn't a need to grind for skills. To earn a higher ladder rank in w3, i need many wins. Warcraft 3 is also a grind. So I quit playing warcraft 3.

Next stop. Is there a game that I don't really have to play ("grind?!)?

the fact that you don't understand that Guild Wars has an economy VERY similar to that of MOST places in the world....makes this conversation moot.

While I understand what your trying to say, I disagree. Obviously people don't have more gold than they could spend. The fluctuating and ever-increasing prices of desireable equipment in this game is proof that people are spending gold to obtain these items and that raises their prices based on the supply and demand economy system in GW.

If they nerf farming and gold drops, it will affect everyone, but it will negatively affect the casual gamer the most.

I say let the grinders and the farmers keep on keeping on. If the items everyone needs and wants were a bit more balanced, and obtainable through "A-net endorsed gameplay style", casual gamers would have legitimate goals to achieve.

The best part about it would be that the people who claim to "love" farming would cease that activity promptly.

Just some thoughts.