If Dev's Nerf 105/85/55 Monk build will you continue to play Guild Wars?

Originally Posted by Silmor

Newsflash: the masses are abusing this and are bitching to everyone who argues for a nerf, not the other way around.
You're probably the least qualified person to make a statement like that. Mhydrian's post was over-the-top sarcasm, but people have actually suggested to buff all other classes instead of nerfing Protective Bond, so it's not even very far-fetched.

And to all the people crying that 'monks' will be nerfed, that's nonsense. If ArenaNet goes about this the right way, monks who use Protective Spirit/Bond in a normal fashion (i.e. on allies with normal max health) won't be affected by any nerf, and the skill would be just as potent as it was before. Just those people who use it with ridiculously low health monks will be affected, as they are making this into a problem themselves.

Originally Posted by Xonic

Let's face it. If the US government finds out some people are collecting free money from social security office, i.e. a loop hole in the SS laws, Bush will have that loop hole closed.

Now, those people who had been collecting free money, they should giggle like school girls, be grateful that the free cash run lasted as long as it did.....

Originally Posted by SJG

it really should be fixed.

Originally Posted by Fantus

The actual content of your writing is that you think that the 105 monk / the skill Protective Bond is broken.

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

The 105/55 build can solo a very select number of areas. It's hardly "wherever we want".

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

the build doesn't affect you. it doesn't affect me. it doesn't affect joe RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOblower down the street....it doesn't affect anyone. It's just another way for people to find enjoyment in a game they spent hard earned money on. You and the rest of the people that feel the need to nerf this build are the very same people that bitch about one thing or another CONSTANTLY. Whether it's a need to hear yourself talk or a need to constantly have something to disagree with, I honestly don't know nor do I care. ArenaNET has gone on record as saying they have nothing against legitament farming. This build is a legitament farming build and in no way affects anyone not using it. Those of you screaming about it ruining the economy need to spend more time in a classroom and less time on the internet...because YOU ARE STUPID.

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

p.s. are you gonna ride my nuts for much longer? I honestly think you find better things to do with your time

Originally Posted by SJG

In my opinion, the 105 build is an fairly obviously an exploit. That is, it uses the game mechanics in a way that was not considered. It was an oversight on the part of the devs, something that was obviously not factored in to any balancing process.

Kudos to the person who discovered it because it is obviously a clever little loophole but that does not take away from the fact that as an exploit, it really should be fixed.

Originally Posted by Silmor

My opinion on 105/Protective Bond unfortunately had nothing to do with my remark to Algren Cole. He suggested that 'the masses' are whining for a nerf when there's a (now locked) thread with an immense number of pro-105 posts versus a small number of pro-nerf posts, along with veritable masses of monks in the ToA districts, which just show his remark is nonsense - that was what I was trying to point out. Why they use it, or how it's possible for them to use it is beside the point here.
That's just because you suck at using the build then. For argument's sake, let's not look at the least common denominator, but instead look at the full potential problem - that's how you tackle balance.
Unfortunately there have been very informed posts on this issue in the 'farming does not cause inflation' thread, go and educate yourself before making stupid remarks.
The moment you stop posting uninformed drivel is the moment I stop 'riding your nuts'. See the correlation?

Originally Posted by GreatLich

Would I quit if the Devs decided to adjust prot bond (or any skill for that matter) to the detriment of the 55/105 solo monks? Hell no! in Guild Wars I have found the first game in 2 years that has been able to hold my interest for longer than 2 weeks!

<off-topic and probably not belonging in this thread>
On the matter of "nerfing" Protective bond: In my opinion Prot. bond is working as intended, because no matter how many hit points u have, all it really does is say: "while i'm up, you can survive a minimum of 20 hits (20 * 5% = 100%)". If you look at the 55 HP build, it isn't prot bond that's keeping you alive, it's the +4 mending and the +2 from Watchful spirit.
In my opinion, mixing in percentile based skills (as Prot bond, which works off of a percentile number) in an integer based HP system is the real flaw at work here. Fixing this would require a reworking of Prot Bond nevertheless, so that it will continue to function as intended, but no longer work off of a percentile. (perhaps making it work like shielding hands, but reducing damage before armor is factored in; any solution that provides prot bond with a "fixed" number to work off of would do)

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

I agree with your point of view on the rest of your post to a certain point, but this is the piece that I think needs to be clarified...

The 105 build is continuing to ruin the economy. Yes, what you say is true about ecto and shards...they actually LOWER the price of those items.

However, these builds are making prices for the best equipment and upgrades absolutely skyrocket. The problem is the absolute influx of cash that the 105 monks have injected into the economy.

In other words, when the monks produce a ton of ecto and shards and other gold max damage weapons, they are able to generate a ton of cash from their sales. Because they are able to obtain a ton of cash, they can absolutely overbid on items that are available to the general public to secure for their other characters. For example, a couple of months ago a +30 sword pommel of fortitude went for about 30 platinum. Now, because the 105 monks generally have some other warrior character in their stable, they can go out and completely overbid on the same pommel for 150+ platinum, because, in relative terms, the cash is meaningless to them because of the constant inflow from the UW. As a result, they wind up setting the exorbitantly high prices in GW, because the sellers always know that they can find a 105 monk that will pay them 4-5 times the normal price of an item.

THAT is why I expect the 105 build will be nerfed somewhat...to bring a little more balance to the cash-rich hyper-inflationary economy that exists in the game today.

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

Leaving the game because one skill is nerfed a little so it cannot be taken advantage of has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard...

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

why not? Why does PvE need balance? You aren't playing against anyone but the environment...it has doesn't affect you in any way if these monks want to solo. You're just bitter because you haven't figured out how to play this game without a monk. You're so reliant on a healer that it pisses you off that the healers aren't available...

Originally Posted by fuzzybulldozer

this is complete and UTTER bullshit. there is one simple reason that PvE balance is absolutely necessary. you have evidently realized this reason but have decided to glaze over it with a "you're just bitter" phrase. why dont i tell the others what that reason is: the ECONOMY. the uw/fow have the best drops in the game. other characters need to group together and share loot to withstand the enemies within, a fair trade for the wonderful treasures within. the invicimonk build, however, can solo this endgame dungeon meant for teams of players, acquiring huge numbers of gold items and ectoplasms. they sell these items for cheaper prices than normal, undercutting the market for a quick sell and cheating the sellers who need to sell for proper prices. what does the invincimonk care if he loses 15k in a sell? he can get that gold back in a couple UW runs, no sweat.

with all this money piling up, the invincimonks decide theyd like to buy some perfect stuff to put on their character and other characters, for show. because they have hundreds of thousands of gold, they bid overbid outrageously on perfect items, raising the price for everyone.

thus, invincimonks both devalue less than perfect items (14%, 13%, etc) and drastically overinflate perfect items.

and that, algren cole, is why we care about pve balance

Originally Posted by fuzzybulldozer

this is complete and UTTER bullshit. there is one simple reason that PvE balance is absolutely necessary. you have evidently realized this reason but have decided to glaze over it with a "you're just bitter" phrase. why dont i tell the others what that reason is: the ECONOMY. the uw/fow have the best drops in the game. other characters need to group together and share loot to withstand the enemies within, a fair trade for the wonderful treasures within. the invicimonk build, however, can solo this endgame dungeon meant for teams of players, acquiring huge numbers of gold items and ectoplasms. they sell these items for cheaper prices than normal, undercutting the market for a quick sell and cheating the sellers who need to sell for proper prices. what does the invincimonk care if he loses 15k in a sell? he can get that gold back in a couple UW runs, no sweat.

with all this money piling up, the invincimonks decide theyd like to buy some perfect stuff to put on their character and other characters, for show. because they have hundreds of thousands of gold, they bid overbid outrageously on perfect items, raising the price for everyone.

thus, invincimonks both devalue less than perfect items (14%, 13%, etc) and drastically overinflate perfect items.

and that, algren cole, is why we care about pve balance

Originally Posted by sleazeh

I have a 55 monk, I've run one since well before the build become popular - let's face it, for generating gold and experience, it's unparalleled. That being said, I am hoping they tweak the protective bond skill.

Although I have no concrete evidence to support this, my belief is that the skill will be altered such that it reflects what I believe to be the original design intent; damage taken will be a percentage of maximum initial health before application of runes. In my opinion, this build takes advantage of a "quirk" in the skill mechanic that was unforseen by the development team, and on the PvE side, creates balance issues in certain specific and limited situations. Adding flesh golems or mind blades or something to areas that did not previously evidence them does not address the core problem, but rather is simply a band aid solution that (negatively?) affects all players. All that has to happen, IMO, is to rework the prot bond skill slightly to reflect what (likely) was the original intent.

To those who claim that "soloing the UW is the only challenge left" in Guild Wars, I would ask where is the challenge, exactly? In the countless runs I've done, there was nothing particularly challenging about activating the same 3 or 4 skills in succession over and over again. In fact, it's about the most repetitive and non-challenging activity I've come across in playing the game....whether you're talking about smite runs, griffons, tengu, or trolls. The only reason we do it is for money and experience; once you've done a few runs to get the hang of things, we certainly don't do it for the challenge.

Nor do I buy the argument that I've heard about against nerfing based on the success of creative build design - because for damn sure 99.9999 percent of people running this build are doing so because they read it and copied it from forums just like this one.

To whomever said in an earlier post that it was a good and profitable run while it lasted I think has the right of it. This build has become a crutch - for me, and in my opinion, for countless others. About time for me to get back to actually playing the game.

But hey, who am I to dictate...right?

Originally Posted by fuzzybulldozer

this is complete and UTTER bullshit. there is one simple reason that PvE balance is absolutely necessary. you have evidently realized this reason but have decided to glaze over it with a "you're just bitter" phrase. why dont i tell the others what that reason is: the ECONOMY. the uw/fow have the best drops in the game. other characters need to group together and share loot to withstand the enemies within, a fair trade for the wonderful treasures within. the invicimonk build, however, can solo this endgame dungeon meant for teams of players, acquiring huge numbers of gold items and ectoplasms. they sell these items for cheaper prices than normal, undercutting the market for a quick sell and cheating the sellers who need to sell for proper prices. what does the invincimonk care if he loses 15k in a sell? he can get that gold back in a couple UW runs, no sweat.

with all this money piling up, the invincimonks decide theyd like to buy some perfect stuff to put on their character and other characters, for show. because they have hundreds of thousands of gold, they bid overbid outrageously on perfect items, raising the price for everyone.

thus, invincimonks both devalue less than perfect items (14%, 13%, etc) and drastically overinflate perfect items.

and that, algren cole, is why we care about pve balance