Big Update & Feedback: rant or praise [MERGED]

Update looks good to me

Warriors - got a needed buff, which I'm happy about as I have a W/
Monks - Balthazar's Aura and Zealots Fire got toned down a little, probably not how I would have done it, they are still useful, but not overly useful anymore
Elementalists - Ether Renewal needed fixing like no other skill, and water magic buffs are great
Necros - Looks to me like necros are going to be a highly used class in PvP, some nice buffs
Rangers - Recently played an interrupt spamming ranger and yes it was a bit too good and could be used just as much for DPS as it could for interrupting, so that was a much needed fix, pets got a very nice change

New interface features are great

horray.

Changed Enchantments so that if you cast an Enchantment with an upkeep cost and you already have -10 Energy regeneration, you will now lose the last maintained Enchantment you cast.

Good:
# Grenth's Balance – Decreased recharge to 10 seconds.

# Vampiric Touch – Decreased recharge to 2 seconds.

# Blood Renewal – Decreased sacrifice cost to 25%.
# Ether Renewal – Decreased duration to 7 seconds; decreased the amount of Energy you gain to 1..3 per Enchantment.
#
# Mind Freeze – Increased slow to 90%.

# Frozen Burst – Increased damage to 20..110.

# Ice Spear – Increased damage to 5..65.

# Lightning Touch – Increased damage to 10..60.

# Deep Freeze – Increased slow to 66% and increased radius to all foes in the location.

Bad:
------------------------------------
# Soothing Images – Increased Energy cost to 15. <--
# Energy Drain – Skill reworked. New description: “Target foe loses 4..10 Energy. You then gain 2 Energy for each point of Energy target foe lost.” Also increased recharge to 30 seconds.
# Energy Tap - Skill reworked. New description: “Target foe loses 4..7 Energy. You then gain 2 Energy for each point of Energy target foe lost.” Also increased recharge to 30 seconds.
# Diversion – Increased casting time to 3; Increased recharge to 10 seconds.

I believe the changes to energy denial are too drastic. It’s was too far, sort of like what they did to spirits. 4-10 energy drained is really shallow for an elite and now with another 10 seconds of recharge to boot. It still is great for energy management however. The diversion nerf, really hurt the skill, its still useful, but now with a 3 second cast time, its really limited, and that 10 second recharge doesn’t help either.

The changes to ranger interrupts require the player to have some modicum of skill now in order for them to use them. Debilitating also got a much needed increase in recast time. It was far too potent when combined with echo. On the flip side the change to called shot is quite nice and so is the change to read the wind as well as the pet attack change.

For monks and hex removal in general, the buff to holy veil is in the right step to increasing hex removal, now for some of the other skills like remove hex. The hex breaker change was unfortunate; I hope that Anet will change it back. The other monk skills, like shield of deflection needed a much a needed buff, and the now 2 second aegis isn’t too bad.

They sure did pick some odd warrior skills to buff however; most still will not be too useful for PvP. Cleave still isn’t as good as eviscerate, and probably will never be. The spike you get with the eviscerate/executioners combo is just far too potent to be ignored.

Necromancer’s got some nice fixes to some of their skills, and that change to OoV and OoP was definitely necessary. I may even give aura of the lich a try now.

Elementalist really got a mixed bag. Their most potent method of dealing damage –smiting, is now really unusable. They still haven’t fixed the core problem of air-not enough spiking capability (warriors and rangers beat air elementalists easily in spiking ability), and that change to ward against foes is pretty annoying. Ether prodigy is still a joke although the new ether renewal is probably as balanced as it should be. Fire got some nice buffs to some skills as well. Water really got some nice skill buffs and is probably going to dominant element now along with earth. Fire still lacks some potency although its probably almost there, the AoEs are still not balanced against each other. The change to windborne speed and whirlwind is pretty nice and lightning touch was long overdue for a buff. But as I said before air still lacks any real use in PvP other than for buffing and knockdown via gale.

The beauty of cleave is you don't have to build up a huge amount of ald only to miss via aegis or whatever enchantment.

No, it doesn't give deep wound or 120 dmg. Not really useful in combos either. What makes it an elite is the fact that you can deal a decent amount of damage without using combos or building up. In other words, if you don't plan on having a skillbar full of attacks (you know, other stuff like spells, shouts, stances, etc), Cleave really helps improve your game.

Mind you I said DECENT damage, not uber. My axe warrior build, right now, is axe mastery 16. I deal +31 damage with cleave. It's 4 ald.

So I deal +62 damage if I spam it twice, whereis executioner's strike is 8 ald and only +42 damage.

Just a thought - do Glyphs stack?

Renewal+Sacrifice anyone?

Why were rated challenges taken out of the game?
I understand you can challenge a guild over and over, have them forfeit, and build up wins. But the gain won't be very good, and you can check logs to get rid of abusers.

in my view the Hexbreaker nerf, the Aegis nerf, and the Draw Conditions nerf are all extremely ludicrous nerfs

Anet, please un-nerf all those skills immediately. those nerfs suck.

Since Eviscerate and Dismember both require 7 adrenaline, bumping Cleave up to 30 (@ lv 12) might make Dismember / Cleave and Evis / Executioner's about even anyway. I'm sure we'll be seeing updated statistics soon. Ought to be interesting...

Can SOMETHING be done about Crude Swing, I wonder? Even if it has to be made an elite, please, please take away the "easily interrupted" and give me a real PBAoE hammer attack! I don't ever hear about anyone using this skill at all. It may be the game's single greatest collector of dust.

2 words, Smurf guilds. The ladder is being reset on Saturday, do you really want a guild challenging their smurf over and over and over and getting points for it?

Nope - one per spell.

I like everything else except for the ranger disrupts and balth. aura decrease.

I seriously think Anet should nerf running. Remember the old Diablo days, when you got to walk everywhere you went, and it took 8 days to get to where you were going? Dang, those were the times. I miss not being able to run. NERF RUNNING Anet, you n00bs!!!!

Ah. Well, it'd still be fun in pve to cast a renewed meteor shower and then a sacrificed one right after it. :P


(And yay, whirlwind recharge now equal to aftershock recharge. I could have used that back in the day I was vainly trying to make my E/W hammer build work

Since it is said that brevity is the soul of wit, I will try to keep this short.

Review and test the changes yourself. Adapt and move on.

Merry meet, merry met, merry meet again,
Wyldchild777

Hey, I have an idea lets just not worry about making new builds because big brother will just help the little cry baby's that can't figure out how to counter it.
I thought the point of having all these skills and spells was to make builds and counter builds?! If they just keep neffing every damn thing that makes a powerful build than what the hell is the point of PvP?!!!!
There is always a way to counter a good build, just because people are to lazy or stupid to figure it out!

-Oh I just got my butt kick in GvG, by a really strong build, I better get on Guru Forum and get the whole damn thing nerffed.-

That sounds like a fun way to play Guild Wars to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not that we can't make new builds with what is there but why if it's just going to get axed again and again?

Tournament.

LMAO
All of the classes got nerfs and buffs, but the elemenist hardest hit was against thier smiting attribute.

It just goes to show that this combo was so commen that people forgot that smiting was primarly intended for monks.

Hooray for making elemental damage something to fear again.

They sort of buffed running with windbourn speed, dodge, and escape.
But on the side, they buffed water a little so...more water elementist means less running.

I've done that before, although with Arcane Echo instead of Glyph of Renewal. It's actually reasonably effective in PvP, especially on Altar maps. The problem is that it takes too many skill slots, so it's (maybe) massive damage and then not much for a long time. Still, when it works, it's great fun to see the mass of damage/XP/Faction numbers, so I sometimes run it when I'm bored.

There is nothing wrong about creating new builds.

There is a difference between "dominating build" and "good build". The dominating ones are the ones that require little to no talent to use, and even the best of guilds fell over to them. Not only that, but prevents a blockade against the creative types (like myself) from the idiots who spam "IWAY LFG"

Now it isn't a requirement to be a smiter, mesmer, or w/r to be in a group. People can be CREATIVE and do their own thing.

Hmm... dang, i liked hex breaker the way it was.

If they're going to reduce my ability to deter people from stacking me with a billion hexes, then at least let me take my pound of flesh for the one or two hexes i get to block with it- beef up the backlash damage it does or add some extra recharge time to the hex it blocks, or do _something_ to make that necro/mesmer think twice about dropping something else on my head...

Hundred Blades hits for much less than Cyclone Axe, and I've used them both on the same targets with the same warrior. Hundred Blades hits the primary target twice and adjacent targets to the primary but once. Cyclone Axe hits all of them with a damage bonus of +4 to +10, which is a lot once armor is factored into it. The two skills have almost the same damage output level, but one is an elite, the other is not.

Hundred Blades only became an elite to prevent it from being used with Illusionary Weaponry. Now that it's been upgraded to elite status, why shouldn't its damage or cool-down be similar to Cyclone Axe? It's an elite skill that has no business being an elite in its present state.


Dual Shot is not an elite skill while Hundred Blades is. Yes, it combos well with certain other attack skills, but why should it be an elite skill if its current specs don't justify the elite label?

Low eng (5) and no damage reduction.

Seriously, try conjure "whatever" + hundred blades with sword mastery 16.

Now picture you spamming that shit, not wasting your ald, but gaining it faster too.

Yeah, now if only meteor shower wasnt all show (or 2/3 show) and no blow

I wonder if the new Mind Freeze snares enough to keep someone in MShower's hitting zone?


(Edit: Yes, I admit it. I have a Meteor Storm fetish. Alway have. I judge the quality of an RPG by how good their meteor storm is. And I judge the quality of an RTS by how good its satellite beam is :P )

I can already do the above by replacing Hundred Blades with Cyclone Axe. Almost the same adrenelin gain, but cycles faster, better damage bonus, better average damage + range, omnidirectional...

So, why is Hundred Blades an elite?

Are you telling me you can deal 130 dmg with cyclone?

Edit: Btw, how is it a better damage bonus when your second attack is the same as the first in hundreds? You can get from anywhere from 10 damage to 55 damage PLUS your first attack.

[/whine]

[happy]I'm going to retract that statement. My monk is still functional.[/happy]

I've never seen HB alone ever go that high against well armored targets. If you can post a screen shot, I'd appreciate it!

Since 100 blades is an elite, we should be comparing it to eviscerate.

The point is, 100 blades is only about as good as cyclone axe. When it should be as good as eviscerate.

Just a quick post, since I've only had about half an hour of playtime and an equal amount reading about the changes.

Ether Renewal-Just picked this one up today (wasted faction now, lol). Right from the beginning I knew this definately needed a nerf. However, it was nerfed too much and it's just not elite anymore. Reduced duration, reduced energy...it's not really worth it. 7 seconds? Seriously? I could see one or the other, not both.

Slightly related, smite took a hell of a beating. Hard to tell if it was too much, due to the ether renewal nerf. Traditional builds are shot, however, for emos.

Warriors...no nerfs. My favorite anyhow, smiter gettin reworked and possibly canned if not up to snuff.

Rangers..I don't play 'em anymore (the super short duration self buffs annoy me, but I did play one for a bit). Seems like they took a bit of a hit too, with the interupt spam. Some things were boosted though, so perhaps it'll average out for most builds.

Monks. Smite is in pain, otherwise I personally don't feel this (I tend towards a heal monk, using none of the skills listed). The 2 second cast on Aegis seems a bit over the top though...when you need it, waiting 2 seconds...and the duration never was something to jump for joy over (imo). Meh.

Necros. Just started one for pve, and it's been great fun. Looks like it's a bunch of unneeded love, but sure, I won't complain.

Mezmer. Never could play one worth a damn, so I guess that won't change much for me. GL to those of you out there though, it'll be interesting.



Bottom line. Too many changes in too short of a time frame. Less changes, seriously, it's TOO MUCH at one time...across the board nerf assault, shock and awe the players perhaps? Less on the nerf bat, see how some changes affect things before slamming more nerfs onto people.

Edit: Anybody notice the lack of emos, and huge numbers of warriors and rangers? Also, I used to run a Mo/Me heal monk with Hex Breaker, but that's going out the window. Just doesn't do the trick...and the lack of hex removal compared to the number of hexes available makes me cry.

I wonder if people prefer big "seasonal" changes like this one, or say, having one single skill change every week?

I dont mind either - having something every week would be fun tho.

Talking softies here.

-55, -55, -10, -10

Thats what you'll see if you land a nice hit on a monk. Then slap in some seeking blade, galrath slash...

Well, you have ONE dead monk.

god they nerfed hex breaker too much

It's probably best to do big blocks of change spaced farther apart. Otherwise people would have to repair or redesign their builds every week - then eventually leave because they can't get more than a couple of days our of each build.

I'd say that maybe casual energy deniers feel that their builds were unjustly nerfed...but they miss that (I believe) a lot of the top guilds were taking energy denial to extreme levels to the point of making matches very long and not very fun. I saw a few iQ concept(?) builds that almost made me cry

=T Well the monk must suck pretty bad.

But on back on topic:

I like the changes. Sure e/m smite and r/* were "tweaked" but I think it was for the better. Hopefully, they'll be more interesting build floating around in these next few weeks. =]

Before the update, the Mesmer could have 3 main jobs (in non-specialized builds) - interruption, frag bombing or energy denial. Now that you've taken away energy denial, we only have interruption (pretty much forcing us to all concentrate on Domination). You make an entire profession devoid of variety and fun and then you expect the mesmers to be happy because of the "new skill monitor"'s potential at doing a single job? Yay?

Cyclone axe hits harder vs. all targets given its built-in damage bonus and higher criticals. All weapon damage scale upward based on present skill level.

I still don't see any compelling reason why HB is an elite. It's marginally better than cyclone axe given its +1 adrenelin/strike, but that's about it.

My sole point: Hundred Blades needs a little more teeth to justify its elite status, whether it be a 6-second cool down time or +4..+8 damage bonus. That's all...

Sorry about the derail... back to topic!

I highly doubt one of mesmer's role was energy denial. Sure it can do that job, but I don't think Anet intended the mesmer to that amount of energy.

Me thinks it was just supposed to be an added bonus to replenishing your quickly spend supply.

for those who said no love for fire:
Incendiary Bonds – Increased damage to 20..80.
Searing Heat - Removed Exhaustion.

Also, according to the "secret changes" thread here in riverside, Rotgorts invocation has been buffed too.

However, none of this makes fire any more useful for pvp.