Guild Wars Update - Nov 10 and Nov 11

Zealot's Fire is cheaper.

Cast it with a 20% enchant mod and just heal yourself when bad guys get close...

Edit:

Go to Piken's. Take the henchmen. Fight the Charr Stalkers. Watch everyone except for Stefan run back 20 feet then return each time they take an Ignited arrow.

Not really, since left to their own devices, those mobs would slaughter us. They are all higher level, with higher damage output, more HP, they greatly outnumber us, the only viable way to get through FoW and not pull an all-nighter was to nuke the living hell out of those swarms. Sure we can still get through, but its going to be an inch-by-inch process, and frankly, to someone thats played those quests/missions inside out and backwards, I have no desire to creep through FoW at a snails pace. That isn't interesting, that's frustrating. I love this game, but I'm done with PvE. I have no desire to replay the same old missions at a higher level of difficulty. Give me something new, that's interesting. Give us new monsters, some new maps in the arenas (I'm so, so very sick of those same 4-5 maps over and over and over ad nauseum), some new armor merchants with new looks, new weapons, a new area, but please don't put the same cold meal in front of us and tell us its different and challenging because we have to cut our steak with a plastic spoon.

I'll keep playing PvP until I get bored of that too, and move onto greener pastures. No worries to you, for now... but when I quit and pass the word along to 5 friends not to touch this game, and they tell their friends... I'm sure you see the pattern. GW caught on from word of mouth and recommendation as much as it ever did from advertising or good reviews, and the same will be true of its demise. I convinced 5 people to buy this game, and between us we'll convince 25 people not to bother. The MMO market is getting really competitive, and a bad reputation spreads like an STD on a college campus in this age of information. Am I making threats? No, I'm predicting what I think will happen. You won't lose any monthly fees, since they don't exist, but you will probably lose a lot of business from potential customers and dedicated players buying a second account.

I'm not just a whiney brat, crying because you took away my toys. Nerfing my nuker isn't what I'm worried about, as I rarely even PvE anymore. I'm worried about the larger implications of ANet making huge game changes that affect the entire community without asking anyone's opinion but their fellow designers/developers. I'm worried about this becoming another Ultima Online, where the devs pander to the needs of the loud minority until their game is a shell of what it was, and it dies a slow, ugly death.

Rebuilding is not a problem for a lot of us, but for a new player who only has 5-10 hours a week, or less, to play, someone who has spent all his money and skill points building his character towards fire, you're basically telling this guy "too bad, start over". Am I exaggerating? I don't think so. Almost every good fire spell is AoE. Not just the Big Two, but fireball, phoenix, lava font, etc. If I'd spent all my time building this character and you pulled the rug out from under me, I'd be gone before you could say "oh, snap!"

I think guaging the community's reaction before you implement these huge changes might be a better strategy next time.

Thanks for coming here and getting involved in the discussion though, I'm glad to see someone with a pulse representing.

"i guess running is much easier for people through lonars pass->droknars forge, just chuck on balthazars aura and watch the mobs scatter lol, "clear the way i got AOE on me" haha"


LOL!!!! You're right!

Does that actually work? Anyone try it yet?


"Zealot's Fire is cheaper.

Cast it with a 20% enchant mod and just heal yourself when bad guys get close..."


Better yet! EVERYBODY with monk abilities should be able to run anywhere now.

speaking of games logs, yes, i suggest reading them for the day of this patch. tons of people saying "lets go play WoW", and the others simply flaming ANet. well deserved in my opinion. you can push these rediculous, so called "tested updates" on us. but people aren't dumb, they WILL eventually quit. if there's two things i've learned from marketing that strictly applies in this situation, its this:

1. people who have bad experiences with a product/service are likely to tell 10 others (negative word-of-mouth or buzz marketing)

2. it is far easier to keep customers then market to new ones.

with that said, in the current state and it the history of guild wars so far, don't be shocked if chapter 2 sales aren't what you expect.

You are making this up .... presearing ele's don't even have fireball.

Besides in pre-searing a fire ele owns in the ice area on flare alone.

Get your facts straight before you complain.

One of my mains is an ele too and although this makes me adapt, i can understand the reasoning behind this change.

One other thing ... the fix isn't final ... i am convinced they will fix things like breaking aggro. And i am sure they can now improve drops and buff some fire spells or make them cheaper to use.

Right now i think the fix is not yet working as intended so expect some fices to that

Shaquira

Monsters can detect AoE now. What is next? Monsters can detect pain, when you hit them, they will run away. This should be very 'Realistic", lol

great update ^^~~

Now when mobbed by a bunch of melee mobs just cast an aoe.. they spend more time running than fighting. Or see an avicara fierce just use fireball or something and it will go away to the horizon.

I just farmed Griffs and minos. it seems that SoJ doesn't make the mobs run like idiots. just archane echo it and cast balth aura while its cooling down..

Just did THK, its alot easier. Every time we had an issue just cast an aoe and the mobs will do more running than firghting.

I can see builds taking advantage of this

I have to think that they did this far too quickly...if it's not "fixed" yet, then why'd they implement it so fast? If they supposedly tested it out, then they would have already known about all of the side effects. Either one of the Anet reps need to say flat out "this is how we intended it to work, there are no bugs," or they need to take it out to finish fixing it. To make us have to deal with their bugs because they get hasty is just a bit much.

A side note...if they want farmers out of high areas such as UW...then why not implement a group requirement of like 4/5 people in group rather than take away our AoE spells?

This is what we need, GAMEPLAY testing and experiences that people write about. It is obvious that my "big picture" argument from post #325 is being completely overlooked. So Anet needs to at LEAST pay attention to threads like NewSaber's concerning in play stories. As he said, we have now been given a completely new problem to replace the old one.

By now i am fed up; i have been following this thread off and on since it started and cant believe Gaile's comment that it was "tested" and deemed "reasonable and fair". i still dont understand Anet's sense of balance by creating a problem to fix another problem. im clueless. And done with GW. hope yall find some fun outta this game!

EDIT:: Ok, fine i dont quit, but give me another update like this with a lame justification for its implimentation...ya...

I can think of a few reasons why, and although I may be flamed for going against you Gaile I feel I still need to say it.

Find me 7 other players at any given time of the day that won't complain when the going gets rough. Find me 7 other people that won't quit after they die, 7 that don't resort to foul language and childish namecalling. Find me those 7 that actually realize this is supposed to be a game about strategy and teamwork. I could think of more qualities that I think would be common among the masses but to be frank you'd be surprised how many lack even just one of them.

I can never find the ideal group, one that is actually fun to play in anymore. Pretty much all I have left to do is the Underworld and the Fissure of Woe, and those areas are no fun unless I'm with my guild. In the Underworld we get those solo monks still, and the painful process of forming a group that can take upwards of an hour is completely ruined. In the Fissure of Woe, this damn book trick that everyone abuses. I am looking for a challenge, and that stupid thing takes it completely away. Why didn't you fix THAT if you were looking to increase the difficulty for the PvE community? How in Dwaynas eyes are the monsters foolish enough to attack a single enemy because he has a book in hand and can't do anything but stand there! How is acceptable to hold a gear and type /dance AND be considered the most valid member of the party! Where is the logic behind it?

Thus, I resort to the solo play, to receive tranquility. I can't even go around with the local chat on anymore as a direct result of this patch. The number of players in every district of every camp complaining that they can't play, and like children they squabble amongst each other. More so than ever, it will be even harder to find good groups because this complaining will never cease. The only challenge I can seek anymore comes from the self-satisfaction that I can achieve something that everyone else would rather complain about than figure out on their own.

Bad enough if not in the game, than on these forums. See for yourself that this change has erupted in pages of responses, the vast majority are players of your game who are throughly displeased. Only a few actually make valid points that were worth giving the time to consider and discuss.

I have three methods of farming left... just three where I can disregard the pressures of college and escape. How long do I have until these final three are discovered and these portions of joy are gone I ask.

Its not too hard to adapt, see? Farmers will farm and life goes on. But thats not my concern. Its this:

The bad guys just got stupider (as some of you have shown some fun new tricks to play on their dull intelligence).

I for one have to say while it will make PvE a bit harder I'm kind of pleased with the changes.

Now farming groups will have to (Hopefully) give other classes like Rangers, Necro and Mesmers a chance. For too long I (Me personally) has been forced to farm alone, unable to join the farming groups of the FoW or down SF! And why? Because I'm a Ranger... will the tables have turned.

Besides like it or not it kind of makes sense, why do mobs just stand there and die in AoE spells... people in PvP move... so why shouldn't mods?

And for those complaning... well look at the solo monk... people will change their builds.... find ways around the changes... traps anyone? Yes that another thing we Rangers do

But in anycase the solo monk build was nerfed, but people made changes and are still using it.

Play, learn, adapt and try again...

well.......we can have another 18!! pages of crap posted or you can give some input on things you do like about and things you don't. all i have heard so far is farmers.

PRO

1. req more teamwork and balanced groups

2. henches no longer stand in aoe dmg

3. bots are destroyed!!!!

4. will accually have an economy based on more than 3 items.

5. possibility of drops increasing now that teams are req

6. made pve harder


CON

1. 1 shot aoe spells cause foes to flee even before they are cast

2. some prices will jump until auction house is implemented

3. harder to make money for lower end players

4. running is now going to be even more overcrowed than before

5. henches AI is just like the pets now but worse. they now copy everything you do. soon as you stop attacking and move they stop attacking and follow you. when they are hit by aoe dmg they run around like chickens doing NOTHING.


suggestion

1. trigger "flee" after aoe with duration have been cast. 1 shot aoe should not be detected.

2. improve drops to counter act the drop in solo farming. make the drops based on how many people are in party. more people more drops.

3. turn hench AI back to normal attack called target until dead. only flee vs a threating aoe spell like meteor shower. they spend all their time fleeing they never attack in current state.

Please don't troll and call it all posts crap, same can be said about yours. There is plenty of good input in this thread. I read most of it before posting my own comments above.

Keep it carm now.

May I ask why my post, which was well written, mature and addressed key issues with botters and known organized gold rings was deleted?

This update makes pve, which is the reason why I purchased Guild Wars, un-enjoyable for me.

I do not like pvp play, and when I purchased this game it was with the understanding that I was buying a game that offers both as seperate gametypes.

Seperate being the keyword.

Its just not fun for me anymore...

But the question is how long is it before they go after the traps and then the next thing we find to fix it and get around that. If they nerf one class they have to nerf them all in some way and take away something that class dose thats useful. The ele was the undisputed king of AOE which now means nothing. Now what if they make it so the enemys could dodge your arrows or not stupidly run through your traps but avoid them. The fence plays both ways. Whos to say what is next after this.

Well till that time I'm going to continue farming with my Ranger... best thing to do is send A.net support messages and let them know your not happy with the patch.

* Traps now only affect a single target

If that happend you'd be the first one posting in this thread.
It's easy to say get over it when it's not your class that got messed up.

Well put my friend well put someone who understands what i mean.

If you really look at it though warriors just gained a huge advantage

Sprint+ New no chase rule= No Wipe

If your a W/M you can just sprit away and come back and rez them.

Oh and on that note for the *realism factor* who dosent keep running after someone who is trying to kill them who is about to die?

Just did a few tests... Critters are definitly not running from all AoE. They are not running away from Cyclone axe or stuff like Gladiator defense (yep, they keep hitting you )

I personnaly think it's normal for critters to run away from some non moving - DoT AoE (such as Maelstorm, Chaos Storm, Lava Font, Firestorm...).

I am a bit less sure it makes a lot of sense for them to move away from the moving ones (Balth Aura, ZF): just because it makes running a bit easier...

I am also not so sure critters shall run away from one time hit AoE spells.. Why would anyone run away from Frozen Burst? It's not going to hit again in the next 30 sec... Or Whirlwind, or anything...

Louis,

The title of this thread is not "botters and known organized gold rings". Go send it in at http://support.guildwars.com and not here.

Seems to be the mobs running away from AOE spells is in response to the LEGIONS of farmers at Augury's Rock and a few other places. The only real downside I can see to this is that it might lead to a case of the rich getting richer and those who haven't been farming for months aren't able to catch up and therefore items become more expensive/available only for those who took advantage pre-patch (or ebay)

Well read all 19 pages and I'd like to put in my 2 cents.

I am a Griff farmer. Not a sweatshop worker, but I farm for the fun, the gold to afford what I want, to help my guild, and because 8/10, I don't like teaming with other people. When I do team, its with friends or henchmen. PUGs need not apply.

And on that note, I don't care about them nurfing farmers. That was expected since the interview about them last month. I feel the worst for the Eles, I have one, not high lvl, fun to play, but I have friends that ALL they enjoy are fire eles. And as its been stated 100s of times before, this is who this "patch" hurts the most.

I'm not a young kid, I'm 22, own my own buisness, and about the only things I enjoy are spending time with my family, and playing online games. And after dealing with work, and all the BS that comes from that, I enjoy getting on a game, putting on my headset, and talking with friends and enjoying the game.

I don't PvP, I don't enjoy it, I played FPS for 6 years, if I wanted to PvP, I'd go back to MOHAA or BF. So when it comes to the argument of "this makes PvE more like PvP, thats awesome!" its not. I agree, if I wanted to play something "more like PvP" I would just play PvP.

I play MANY other online games, and dropping one from my normal play wouldn't hurt my feelings. If any of you ever played CoH, youll know what I mean when I say this seems like a repeat of what happened in the I5 update there.

I'll probably rant more when I'm more awake(4:30am and just read all 19 pages) But I'll leave with my two thoughts.

1. I'm happy as HELL that I got my FoW armor last week, and my Brohn's Staff earlier today.

2. Thunderhead Keep without AoE nuke.

ugh just think of how hard it is to do thunderhead now lol

I have been playing guild wars since release (only guildwars) and have played with several characters over this time. I have found from this I personally have gotten the most enjoyment from playing my fire elementalist though I do occasionally switch to my other characters for a change. I also have a preference for playing solo as after spending a day at work it feels too much like hard work trying to get into good PUG's that work well and that are not filled with childish people. I could find a good guild to play with but I am only a casual player (I have a family) so cannot dedicate copious amounts of time to the game. I enjoyed playing solo and could do this with my fire elementalist easily. Since this update I have found myself being immediately switched off to wanting to play the game. I used to get a casual, enjoyable gaming experience without having to engage my brain cells too much. I spent time building up my fire elementalist and too suddenly be hit with an update which screws up everything I enjoyed about my elementalist really sucks. I intend to stick it out for another week or so to get a feel of what they have done but at the moment my thoughts are of putting this game to bed. I hope not as I have thoroughly enjoyed playing guild wars upto now in my own way.
Just the thoughts of one mature casual gamer.

Now while this is true, most human players do not just stand in the middle of an AoE spell, we also dont have clairvoyance that its coming and run away before it even hits. Usually the spells like firestorm or Chaos Storm do at least 3 or 4 hits of damage before someone moves out of the way. And while this is ineffective in PVP, in PVE even this small ammount of damage would be acceptable next to the "Oh boy, I feel Fire Rain coming, I better run away now before its even out." Basically, what you have done is given the entire mob a Skill reader for everyone in the group. So they know when any AoE is coming from any direction and any person whether that enemy is looking at you or not.

Your example of a Charr standing there while he's burning to death is the one extreme, however the developers have taken it to the complete other extreme where AoE spells now dont work at all.

And my build, which has been completely untouched by all the nerfs of the past, is now completely unuseable. And its not even overpowered. It was just strong enough for me to win. And now I'm forced to play in a way I'm not comfortable with.

How is that living up to "Players are free to play however they want to play".

please go play the game before posting

It's late, I'm tired, and in regards to my opinions on the patch I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said- especially by Zoolooman, whose posts(any of them in here) sum up my own thoughts far more succinctly, eloquently, and with less swearing than I feel like mustering up right now. Batou of Nine's last post also gets props. Now a few thoughts of my own...

I remember a number of months ago(what, 3 months back?) there was a huge uproar in the PvP crown about NR absolutely destroying the entire hex/enchantment skill lines. Some people claimed that this was not entirely a bad thing, since it forced players to explore skill and build avenues that might otherwise have been ignored(re: weren't very good). Most of the rest of folks recognized the pure BS factor that NR wasn't about making other skills useful, it was about making entire types of skills USELESS. I think what we're seeing here tonight is extremely similar, but for PvE players. AoE spells(and, it seems, at least some similar skills) are now largely useless, at least as damage-dealers. Sure, the fire skillset for Ele's has the vast majority of those AoE spells that got ganked, unlike damn near every caster that suffered from NR, but those fire AoEs were/are awfully popular with a lot of folks, maybe more than were affected by NR. Remember also that not everyone necessarily wants a game that requires a good deal of time and effort to excell at, some folks just want to nuke the hell outta some monsters for a few minutes after a long day. It may be a bit arrogant to lump such people in with the rabid farmers and suchlike that have also been bushwhacked by this part of the update.

To my second point, farming...Anyone who thinks this is going to put a stop or even a dent to the rabid farming business, in the long term anyways, is just deluding themselves. Remember 10/55 monk farmers? Nerfed? Yeah, and the farming business adapted and overcame that problem. Give it a few days, and I assure you someone will figure out how and where to farm with relative ease all over again. I see a lot of "get over it, you have to adapt or die" type posts in favor of the update, but these same folks I think fail to realize that the very first ones who are going to adapt and move on are those who farm as a way of making money, the ones this sort of thing is supposed to impair. Mr. "gold 4 money" is going to figure out reaaaal quick how to get around in a post-aoe farming world, it's going to be Mr "Guy McDudefella" that spends a few minutes every day kicking back killing some stuff and picking up some nifty items to sell or give away to friends and guildmates that is going to be screwed, because Guy McDudefella isn't here to make money working at farming, he just wants some casual entertainment and the fun of finding that really rare-pattern axe in with perfect gold-level stats. He doesn't have the time or patience to go through and relearn and rebuild his character(s) from scratch. He's screwed, and even if he DOES switch over to whatever cookie-cutter build replaces aoe nukers, odds are that build will get nerfed too and until finally he just says f-it and leaves.

And lastly, for those who are claiming that this patch is going to put greater pressure on groups to bring necros and mesmers, HAH! Kids, I run a Me/E domination expert mesmer(level 20, at Hell's Precipice but hasn't found a group to win it yet), and a level 17 N/R(pets and minions, I know, weird and probably silly but it's kinda fun and works decently enough for support tanking), and let me tell you, I am seeing absolutely NO stronger interest in either class. My Me/E is still about 50/50 for getting groups, and what groups he DOES get are either excellent(smart folks, know the value of a good caster-disrupter) or really bad("DOODZ ITS A ME/E HE CAN CAST METEOR FASTOR!!!11"). My N/R I can't speak for so much because he's stuck at Divinity Godamned Coast trying to get a group for that damned bonus, but I can't see the demand for non-battery necros going up much if any. Instead so far I'm seeing a HUGE rise in demand for hydro(snares) and aero(spikers)mancers. Fire/AoE nuking is pretty much dead, and calls for mesmers and necros are about the same- battery necros are largely welcome, mesmers of all types and non-battery necros are still mostly unloved. And I don't expect to see that change any time soon. Weakened as they are, eles are still your primary damage dealer amongst caster types, and most folks are all about simply dealing damage in large quantities. Cool as their capabilities are, necros and mesmers just don't fit that damage-dealer roll as well, and so they still won't get as much love. Get used to it, and don't assume that even changes like the ones in this update are going to alter that fact.

So, quick summary for everyone that got bored halfway through the first paragraph and skipped to the end(I know you did): AoEs get to suffer through in pve what enchantments and hexes got to experience in pvp during the NR days: Total Irrelevancy! Not Good! The worst sorts of farmers(the ones selling on ebay) won't be affected for long if at all! Not Good! Mesmers and Necros STILL get the shaft trying to find a group! Not Good!

Update BAD! HULKSMASH UPDATE!!!

I hope you arent talking to me.

why ?

if you did play before posting , im not talking to you.

This update sucks a big time tbh. can pretty much forget about my pve e/me and farming w/mo now. thanks a.net

Ob the other hand, it's not like all the ranting actually matters.
when did a.net ever reverse an update?
I can only imagine the emberresment of the updates page saying "reversed nov.10 update because the players thought it sucks"

so yeah. basicly get over it.. the update is out and that's how things will stay. a.net won't "reverse" this shit.

for me, GW was fun the day i bought it. but with almost every update the gameplay got worse and worse for me [xcept the SF update. that one rocked], and tbh i rather pay 15$ a month for <insert other mmorpg name here> to keep the trigger-happy nerfers away from me, instead of pay one time 50$ and get nerfed to shit in two months time.

tnx a.net.

this update is actually good for game play, its jus that the entire economy has been slaughtered >_>

its just you posted right after I did. So its natural to assume you were pointing the "Noob Stick" at me.

While I'm not as bitter as you, I do agree with you on one thing. Anet, no matter what we say, wont change things back to the way everyone liked the game.

And how is that serving the community with a change. If the majority of this thread has been any evidence, people do not like this change. So if its not undone, then do you even care what we think about a game we bought to play? I mean, if it gets to the point where I dont even feel like playing anymore because I cant use any skill build I feel comfortable using or that has the effects I'm looking for.. then why would I or anyone else, stick around?

It just seems like this:

You have our money because its a one time purchase. But after that point, you drive away people who have bought the game. And thus the number of active players decreases with every update. Eventually, the game will stop selling because its just been out for too long. It happens to every game. And then you're stuck with one fanbase, who are still left in the game.

If the changes keep occuring that drive people away, eventually (no matter how long it takes) this game will be very empty.

My .2

The monsters look like extras from an old benny hill episode when you solo them, as soon as you cast balths aura they just run back and forth doing nothing,

Its still as easy to solo , but it is just more boring and longer than before, if thats possible.

for PVE teamplay WONDERFULL BRILLIANT EXCELLENT, anything to make the enemies LESS stupid is a good thing.

BUT

I like this update, but go back and sort out the bugs because its stupid having enemies run back and forth like they are at the moment.

(and no i have not read all 18 pages, so apoligies if mentioned before)

*EDIT / oh and elementalist, good luck finding any groups now your probably no longer wanted (not my opionoin, but im sure this is what will happen)

the best aoe dmg spell is not even an ele skill. just b/c its popular doesn't mean its good or the best.

this update is good for people who team play , and enjoy playing .. and its bad for those who like to play solo and play for gold as a job and not as a game for fun.

coudnt have said it better myself, i love pve, hardly even tried pvp, maybe im jus slightly put off due to the fact that the update was released 2 days after i finished my uw 55hp monk >_>

Anyone interested in buying a couple of superior monk runes?