Guild Wars Update - Nov 10 and Nov 11 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

legandry

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

Houston, Tejas

Morbidly Obese Terror Squad

E/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 03:56 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by knives

Frozen Soil

Ward Against Foes
Ward Against Melee
Armor of Earth
Frozen Burst
Armor of Mist
Elemental Attunement {E}
Crystal Wave
Grasping Earth/Deep Freeze

Wow, an ele that is a support class, who would have thought?

What is this build doing that is really helping your group in Pve? Or are you just slowing them down for your nukes to land? If so, how do you fit in a group build? I don't really see the point of using 1/8 of a team to slow down a ton of guys... that slot could be used to battery, heal, etc.

Lady Erighan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defenders of Gods

E/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 03:57 - 82

Basically, anything (dmg wise) that effects multiple enemies, sends them all in a panic. Fireball, Incendiary Bonds, Ignite Arrows, Lightning Touch, Ice Spikes, etc. It's not just your "typical" AoE spells like Firestorm, Metor Shower...there are a lot more skills affected by this.

The Son Of Morgoth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Maryland

The Servants Of Morgoth

N/

11 Nov 2005 at 03:58 - 83

Everyone who hates this update just go to guildwars.com and complain.......like im doing...

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

11 Nov 2005 at 03:58 - 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaia Shadowless

Mmmm. Great marketing technique. Kill off an entire type of spell, then claim you're helping people "adapt."

IMO, the skill/spell changes up to this point have been based on unfair exploits and loophole junkies. To disable AoE or make it essentially a crapshoot to use.... that's just ridiculous.

we had to adapt to spirit spam, air spike, iway, and ranger spike didn't we. its nothing new. the spells are toned down b/c of pve groups always wanting the same thing : 1-2 wars, 1-2 monks, and rest eles. that is crap and needs to be fixed.

they are not useless. fire font and symbol of wrath now protect you for very cheap energy cost.

the one shot aoe spells should not trigger the AI. that is the only part about this that is a little over the top.

Zoolooman

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Ectos And Shards

11 Nov 2005 at 03:59 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

5. welcome to GW. the game constantly changes. if you haven't noticed this in 6 months you probly shouldn't play it. adapt or die its survival of the fittest.

Survival of the fittest is not a justification. Just because something is new or different does not make it better.

On the other hand, I've said why I think the change made the game worse. This update did not increase the number of useful skills, but reduced it severely. Many skills are balanced for PvE, being obviously useless in PvP, and most of these skills are balanced to hit enemies that stand still. This change ruins that balance.

What reasons have you, except for a love of change and the blind hope that people will now ask for more rangers, mesmers and necros (as if they could fill in the gaping hole left by the fire nuker)?

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

11 Nov 2005 at 04:00 - 86

Cool, I can spec in fire, energy storage, inspiration and water!

Dual superiors ftw, guess I'm gonna need a good tank cause I can't take too much damage, owait...

The Son Of Morgoth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Maryland

The Servants Of Morgoth

N/

11 Nov 2005 at 04:01 - 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoolooman

Survival of the fittest is not a justification. Just because something is new or different does not make it better.

On the other hand, I've said why I think the game has become worse. This update did not increase the number of useful skills, but reduced it severely. Many skills are balanced for PvE, being obviously useless in PvP, and most of these skills are balanced to hit enemies that stand still. This change ruins that balance.

What reasons have you, except for a love of change and the blind hope that people will now ask for more rangers, mesmers and necros, as if they'll make up for the gaping hole in damage left by the fire nuker?

EXACTLY...... why will people now ask for more mesmer necro and ranger? ranger since they can trap ? o whoops traps nerfed....
necro since he can battery for his monks and nukes? o wait u cant nuke with aoe anymore..

hmmmm thinking......
mesmers maybe since they can slow........yah that sounds fun im just going get on gw after a slow day at skool or work and just like go slow monsters for my team yea my dream game.....

Owen

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Mo/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 04:01 - 88

I think the AI improvement only makes teamplay more important.

Enemies fleeing my AoE will now be subject to increased damage from the Warriors who persue them out of the AoE area hitting them on the run. Alos, as said, it'll now make it ALOT easier for me to get a group with my Blood/Curse Necro and for all of us who choose to play the more skillful classes.

Frankly in my opinion I knew one of two things would happen to AoE: either what has just happened or AoE's would be made to hit everyone in the area, allies included. I think we got the lesser of two evils here.

To say that enemies shouldn't be given the ability to run from AoE is simply stupid.

MaglorD

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 04:02 - 89

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

You're not a good nuker if you rely on Meteor Shower.

That makes Mahgo Hydras poor nukers...nope, didn't think so.

Jaia Shadowless

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

Salt Lake City

Guild of the Burninators

E/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 04:02 - 90

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

we had to adapt to spirit spam, air spike, iway, and ranger spike didn't we. its nothing new. the spells are toned down b/c of pve groups always wanting the same thing : 1-2 wars, 1-2 monks, and rest eles.

My point was that they basically nerfed AoE, not one or two particular spells. It's not just Fire Eles that are affected. AoE is a staple of the RPG genre. Paying ungodly amounts of energy for it is fine, exhaustion or long casting time (or both) is also fine... it's a good price to pay for the power you get in return. But now, that risk gets you nada.

Faith In Madness

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 04:03 - 91

this..is..the ..worst ..update....

well i guess i won't make that fire ele i have planned

dont really like the other lines of spells

neoteo

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Macau

www.exilesofdarksteel.com

E/

11 Nov 2005 at 04:06 - 92

I AM A FIRE NUKER , ITS MY ONLY LEVEL 20 CHAR I HAVE , I DONT PLAY PVP

and yet , i love this update ... make it harder and harder !!!

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK ANET !!!

yslee

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 04:07 - 93

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoolooman

Yet you're telling me to adapt. Why should I have to adapt? Along the same lines, why did AoE have to be nerfed? People are rationalizing this change after the fact, claiming "it's better this way" while appealing to hasty excuses. But in all aspects, those who praise this are missing the fundamental fact: a large set of skills made for PvE have been nerfed, and no amount of adaptation will make up for that loss.

Indeed. Well said, Zoolooman. Now what we have are potentially powerful spells.. and that's all they'll ever be!

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

11 Nov 2005 at 04:08 - 94

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaia Shadowless

My point was that they basically nerfed AoE, not one or two particular spells. It's not just Fire Eles that are affected. AoE is a staple of the RPG genre. Paying ungodly amounts of energy for it is fine, exhaustion or long casting time (or both) is also fine... it's a good price to pay for the power you get in return. But now, that risk gets you nada.

exactly why its survial of the fittest. adapt or get left behind simple as that. i already know what i'll be using in the future with pve groups so i don't have to worry about it. this also makes it emulate pvp more which is a GOOD thing. that will make pvp more competetive after people tranfer from pve.

any way you want to look at this alot of us knew this was coming sooner or later. having 3 out of 6 classes completely shut out of parties is not what this game is about, its about teamwork. learn to live with and go one with your day.

Zoolooman

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Ectos And Shards

11 Nov 2005 at 04:09 - 95

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoteo

I AM A FIRE NUKER , ITS MY ONLY LEVEL 20 CHAR I HAVE , I DONT PLAY PVP

and yet , i love this update ... make it harder and harder !!!

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK ANET !!!

BECAUSE MY SINGULAR EXAMPLE OF MASOCHISM JUSTIFIES DESTROYING SKILL BALANCE, ELIMINATING FARMING, AND ANGERING A LOT OF PVE PLAYERS WHO ARE RIGHT NOW LOUDLY BITCHING IN EVERY MAJOR DISTRICT!!!! WOO!!!

:|

TMWNN

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Gold Coast, Australia

Tyrannus Australis [Trex]

W/N

11 Nov 2005 at 04:10 - 96

What a bunch or crybabies!!

I was just playing and I adnt red the notes yet, i did notice the mobs running from my chaos storms, guess what i still managed to kill them just as fast.

Adapt to the change or play something else, I just can't stand whiny little turds having a cry over every minor change!

Faith In Madness

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 04:10 - 97

Exactly.The fire and smite spells were pretty much made for PVE now why do they ruin the spells that they made for PvE?Because of all the ppl who complained about it being "Too Easy" and stuff like that.

QuixotesGhost

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 04:10 - 98

They run from .... Whirlwind.

That's ah....

Um, it's only a one - shot .....

Why the heck would you run from Whirlwind?!?

Darkest Dawn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Ohio, USA

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 04:10 - 99

I was out killing the 10 minos for a quest in Augury. I had orion with me. Man those suckers were all over the place. My warrior, and the other melee henchies were running like chickens with our heads cut off trying to catch the minos and the agroed gryphons. ANet, can't we at least cause the AI to have a 2-3 sec delay before attempting to run from AOE?

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

11 Nov 2005 at 04:11 - 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoolooman

BECAUSE MY SINGULAR EXAMPLE OF MASOCHISM JUSTIFIES DESTROYING SKILL BALANCE, ELIMINATING FARMING, AND ANGERING A LOT OF PVE PLAYERS WHO ARE RIGHT NOW LOUDLY BITCHING IN EVERY MAJOR DISTRICT!!!! WOO!!!

:|

i guess your idea of skill balance is outputing 120 dmg per second on a group that isn't smart enough to move 2 steps to the left?

now the skills are balanced and work much more like they would in pvp w/o the detection part. still will be fun and love the update. only people that are complaining are those than can't think for themselves and come up with their own build.

btw the best nuking spell isn't even from an ele.

Lady Ting

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

nyc

Chaos Muffinz

W/R

11 Nov 2005 at 04:12 - 101

How is it fare that people BEFORE all these BS nerfs got so rich ( im talking about full bown max gold + fissure + All the ectos in the world) and now ATM WE CANT, all i want is a peice of fissure armor now it will take me months to get enough

...

EternalTempest

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

United States

Dark Side Ofthe Moon [DSM]

E/

11 Nov 2005 at 04:12 - 102

Make sure your testing all this. Been playing with courthouse -> yaks end.
I'm not seeing the doom and gloom. I target a bit diffrenet and know looking and being fire + something else or taking skill from my mes sub or another element. I play pure fire ele up till know.

Reason a) it's easy, b) it was hard to get in to a pve party that's not fire..

Now I have more options.

Faith In Madness

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 04:12 - 103

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

exactly why its survial of the fittest. adapt or get left behind simple as that. i already know what i'll be using in the future with pve groups so i don't have to worry about it. this also makes it emulate pvp more which is a GOOD thing. that will make pvp more competetive after people tranfer from pve.

any way you want to look at this alot of us knew this was coming sooner or later. having 3 out of 6 classes completely shut out of parties is not what this game is about, its about teamwork. learn to live with and go one with your day.

Hows that ?My First 2 chars to finish the game was ranger and mesmer.I dont think thats shut out of parties.Survival of the fittest... mm wanna test that in RL?1 wimp with a gun can take down 20 macho ppl.

Zoolooman

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Ectos And Shards

11 Nov 2005 at 04:13 - 104

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

any way you want to look at this alot of us knew this was coming sooner or later. having 3 out of 6 classes completely shut out of parties is not what this game is about, its about teamwork. learn to live with and go one with your day.

People keep saying, "Yay, now class X wil have it's turn!"

I don't understand this. I can't think of a single reason why class X will be chosen to fill in the huge gap left by the loss of fire nuking. Mesmers, necros, even rangers: not one does the right type of damage fast enough.

Justify this blind hope. The burden of proof is on you.

Jaia Shadowless

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

Salt Lake City

Guild of the Burninators

E/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 04:13 - 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

exactly why its survial of the fittest. adapt or get left behind simple as that. i already know what i'll be using in the future with pve groups so i don't have to worry about it. this also makes it emulate pvp more which is a GOOD thing. that will make pvp more competetive after people tranfer from pve.

any way you want to look at this alot of us knew this was coming sooner or later. having 3 out of 6 classes completely shut out of parties is not what this game is about, its about teamwork. learn to live with and go one with your day.

First, "survival of the fittest" is NOT the way to get people to stay playing your game and pay $$ for updates.

Second, it's your opinion that making PvE emulate PvP is a good thing. The age-old debate again, I know. But I prefer PvE because it's fun in its own right, not because of its similarities to PvP. If I want to play PvP, I can. PvE should be a different animal.

Why can't Anet increase the power of the other neglected classes? It makes no sense to reduce all the players to the same handicapped level.

You know what? I can either "learn to live with it," or just opt to play another game that doesn't penalize me for playing a popular build. That's just moronic.

zalzan

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 04:13 - 106

Thanks for:

- encouraging the purchase of online gold

- ruining farming for the honest farmers

- screwing with gameplay and ruining charcter builds by nerfing.

some of us farm because its just fun, like treasure hunting, not because we work in chinese sweat shops to sell gold on the internet.

I have played since day one, have two accounts, and one awesome build in each class, all level 20 long ago. Farming was one of the last pleasures I was deriving from this game. Off to WOW I guess.... been avoiding it... At least there I get what I pay for.

Alone)

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

Campbell, California

Legio Imortalii

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 04:15 - 107

I would still say nefring the reason, not nerf the build was the better way to go.

I'm a site admin on another forum, and I've got people saying that they got friends who are leaving GW because of this. And when just a few hours of playing, I've heard people saying they were leaving this game for good. Now, of course that may seem silly and all, this does drop a lot of players who played this game for the opposite reasons of the update.

There ARE those who farmed to help others. And those who worked up hard to get their ele' to nukers up til now, to find out that they feel a bit more useless.

However, like all the previous posts that state this, all professions will be more flexible. Which is a plus side. This could lead up to people becoming more experienced in the game. etc

Faith In Madness

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 04:16 - 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaia Shadowless

First, "survival of the fittest" is NOT the way to get people to stay playing your game and pay $$ for updates.

Second, it's your opinion that making PvE emulate PvP is a good thing. The age-old debate again, I know. But I prefer PvE because it's fun in its own right, not because of its similarities to PvP. If I want to play PvP, I can. PvE should be a different animal.

Why can't Anet increase the power of the other neglected classes? It makes no sense to reduce all the players to the same handicapped level.

You know what? I can either "learn to live with it," or just opt to play another game that doesn't penalize me for playing a popular build. That's just moronic.

amen.If this mindless nerfing continues i might play WoW again.

Alone)

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

Campbell, California

Legio Imortalii

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 04:16 - 109

Whoa now. Please don't blame Anet. They have their reasons for this. But we all have our opinions on why this is a bad one, but there are plus sides too.

AeroLion

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 04:17 - 110

This thread is hilarious.

neoteo

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Macau

www.exilesofdarksteel.com

E/

11 Nov 2005 at 04:17 - 111

yes , go play wow you grinders !!!!!

Faith In Madness

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 04:18 - 112

Well does the fire line look like it was make for Pve or Pvp?They made it for mobs that dont bother moving away.If they planned for mobs to move away couldnt they just make it like that at the first?

CyanKuruma

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

LoS

E/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 04:19 - 113

Exactly, zalzan. Once you beat this game - there's really not a whole heck of alot left to do. Farming for loot to get better armor & weapons for my characters was all I really did. What is left? PvP? Yeah right. Playing missions? Yeah right again. The worst part it - how can someone dictate the way I play? You made this game, I bought it and played it. You can't tell me how to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing play. Sorry - it's as simple as that. Anyone who think's this update is good is either a tard or a bitch boy.

Faith In Madness

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 04:20 - 114

accually in WoW i got to lvl 45 in a few days

nice long grinding methinks.. yea...

knives

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

USA

Grenths Rejects [GR]

Me/

11 Nov 2005 at 04:20 - 115

Problem: Small AoE spells like whirlwind and lightning touch are being effected by the change too.

Solution: Make the AI only scatter if the duration of an AoE spell lasts longer X Seconds. RIght now spells like deep freeze and ice spikes hit instantly when finished casting, so the duration that they last is about 1 second. Same with spells like crystal wave, frozen burst, etc. If the AI of monsters scatter 2-3 seconds after, they will still run from meteor showers and fire storms, but not simple AoE spells like flame burst and inferno.

If ArenaNet has a suggestion box, I say mail them x amount of copies of this solution.

Ard Wen

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2005

Haz Team

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 04:20 - 116

I don't think we should be quick to judge. I did post here angry at Anet, but after a little bit I saw some things that it might encourage. The warriors role will be more inclined to damage. I hate people that think a warrior should not bring a single offense skill. As a warrior a put plenty of stances in my skillbar, but final thrust and others have a place.

The Ele. role will be more finesse, but still can keep a nuker stigma. They will need to equip some ice/water slowdowns to effectly use AoE spells. Rangers will increase if not for an ele. secondary for the slowdown traps. Can you imagine well organized group having the trapper set crippling traps and lure all the baddies into the area. Then the Nukers have a hayday just like usual. E/R may be more inclined to a luring bow perhaps.

Not sure how this effects mo/me/n... but somebody will find out.

knives

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

USA

Grenths Rejects [GR]

Me/

11 Nov 2005 at 04:22 - 117

Btw, Crippling shot spam ftw.

striderkaaru

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Retired Officer

W/

11 Nov 2005 at 04:23 - 118

hey, i'll let you guys in on a little secret:

elementalists have spells other than fire storm and meteor shower.
smiting has spells other than symbol of wrath and balthasar's aura.

germanturkey

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

[PoW]

E/

11 Nov 2005 at 04:23 - 119

^^ thats only possible if you have a good team. and good PUGs are hard to find these days

Zoolooman

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Ectos And Shards

11 Nov 2005 at 04:25 - 120

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

i guess your idea of skill balance is outputing 120 dmg per second on a group that isn't smart enough to move 2 steps to the left?

Yes, it is my idea. Many of the end-game mobs contain a dozen or more level 22+ monsters, all capable of outdamaging humans in a straight up conflict. The only advantage they lack is intelligence. They aren't smart enough to focus fire, they aren't smart enough to dodge, and they aren't smart enough to intelligently heal.

Even under this balanced model, many of the areas were considered very hard. Defend North Kryta, the Fissure of Woe, and certain fights in Sorrow's Furnace leap to mind. Even excellent groups with good builds have failed in these fights, and that's when the enemy wasn't smart enough to dodge.

Let me repeat the important point. The monster mobs have EVERY advantage except intelligence (and a long, customizable skillbar). They have more armor, more health, more damage, and greater numbers. Their idiocy was what made them balanced.

Quote:

now the skills are balanced and work much more like they would in pvp w/o the detection part. still will be fun and love the update. only people that are complaining are those than can't think for themselves and come up with their own build.

PvP and PvE aren't the same game, and they shouldn't have to be. This is why many skills are obviously not made for effective PvE, and vice versa. Why should that change now? Because is not an answer.

Also, I'm disgusted by your low brow insult. Are you so incapable of meeting the arguments against this change, that you have to believe the arguers are unable to "think for themselves and come up with their own build?" Have some dignity man. Ad hominem attacks will not win you the argument, and will only lead to flames.

Quote:

btw the best nuking spell isn't even from an ele.

btw, the best energy management elite for a monk is a necro spell. Such tidbits are irrelevant.