The Signet of Capture System Goes Against Fun Gameplay
Siren
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Originally Posted by Lazarous
3k does not take much killing and looting to accomplish in the later zones, and as the suggestor pointed out it would allow the accumulation to take place in smaller doses so they don't have to spend large chunks of their life at once to acquire one skill.
It's almost as if the PvP fanatics are simply obsessing over nabbing skills and not enjoying the game. I'm not saying that PvE is challenging, necessarily, although it is pretty hairy at times, but it's not some huge burden like the PvPers make it out to be.
I don't know what the problem here is...are the PvPers too hardcore for GuildWars? Are they too casual? From how it sounds, they're trying to walk that line between casual and hardcore, claiming they're not interested in major devotion to building their characters (SoC), but at the same time, their obsession with completing their (ready-made, insta-20) characters screams to me that they're hardcore powergamers who want the best character as fast as they can.
Plus, I still don't see how adding Elite skills to Vendors will make a difference. It'll be adding more of a grind because the only way for players to buy those skills will be to grind high-level mobs for 30 minutes to an hour at a time. So, again, that's not addressing the issue at hand; that's merely adding another issue of grinding.
Again, if people are annoyed with the SoC system, adding another grind for Elite skills isn't going to remedy the problem. It's only going to divert attention away from the SoC system, and focus it onto another grind. I still haven't seen any solution more viable than the Quest-based Elite SoC.
And, you know, it's only a grind because powergamers/powergrinders have made it a grind.
Quote: It was this way in beta, and damned few people complained about elites being a grind. No one at all that i know of complained that they were too easy to get. But remember that Elite skills costed around 10-20 gold. That's not a terribly large sum to gain, even with the minimal gold drops back then, so I'd hardly treat the Beta's Skill Vendors (and likewise, the public reaction to them) as having any real relevance here. We're well aware that Betas aren't indicative of what final options will be like in the full retail version, so I'd be more inclined to label the Beta Experiences as less than applicable here.
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Blackace pointed out a nice guide to becoming a master of pve. Little more needs to be said about that subject from my perspective, whether you believe it to be true or not.|
Did you ever read the design statments a.net made about guild wars? its linked to above, and says the exact opposite of what you're propounding as the goal of guild wars - where skill, not time spent playing, matters more. Skill requires an even playing field in terms of game abilities, and if you create a time sink to get some abilities, like elites, you therefore no longer have an environment where skill is paramount to winning. Did it ever cross your mind that people don't particularly care for beating up on near helpless AI whose only chance at defeating you lies in its ridiculous stat bonuses? that they might enjoy the interplay between various skill bar selections when there are people directing them? no? The skill system guild wars has offers a wonderful chance for competitive play, but they're gutting it by making the bar to enter competitive play both high and tedius to reach. I know this wasn't directed at me, but I do want to mention that ANet has stayed true to their press releases from the get-go. Also, I'd like to mention that the AI in PvE is not complete douches. They are programmed well, and do utilize their skillsets accordingly. If I had taken screenshots during some of the combat, I'd prove it. They use Hexes when they need to, they don't waste energy, they use health drains and shatter enchantments when they need to...in many ways, they're actually more intelligent than the majority of PvPers out there. Eet GnomeSmasher
To me, a lot of people just can't think outside of the box. They just can't seem to get out of the mindset of thinking grind is fun. They think that making something time consuming and tedious means that it's fun and that it's a real accomplishment. All it says it that you have time on your hands, nothing else.
Repetitive, tedious tasks are a cheap way to extend the life of an MMO. I thought ANET had more imagination than that. They did a lot of things right, but also horribly screwed up a few things. I really do like PVE, but I can only do the same missions again and again before I tear my hair out. And that's what the skill capturing system forces people to do. Repeat things over like a gerbil in a wheel. It seems to me a lot of you "grinders" have this elitist attitude where only people who have time to waste should have all the best stuff. GW was supposed to be different but underneath it all, it's basically the same as any other MMO in terms of grind.
Manderlock
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Originally Posted by Blackace
And also for you people that keep using straw man arguments: they are not called elite skills due to their exclusiveness. They are elite due to the fact that a mechanic was needed to balance potential broken combinations or skills that do things the classes normally shouldnt be doing. Stop making stuff up and if you dont know what you're talking about-dont post it.
Hahaha, I see no sorce, it seem to me you are the one "making stuff up" I can read the word elite and understand its meaning, something that you seem not to grasp. Look up the word elite before you try and question my views. Also you will note that I did say that if they make them more commen they should change the name. Because as it stands they are elite, (as they should be) however they no longer will be if they are made more common place. EDIT: Eet, you are not capturing right. There is a way, and it should not take you more than afew times. Learn how to do something before complaining about it. Lazarous
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As I have said before, although your impressive skills of denial will no doubt have prevented you from undertsanding this, is that those people who master this game, not spend the most time on it, but MASTER it, are going to have the best advantages. Skill at the WHOLE game, not just PvP, is going to determine what you have access to. If you think you are so impressive at Guild Wars why dont we both make PvE characters and meet up? Obviously you will able to tear through the game as fast as me atleast, suffering the same number if not less deaths gaining the same stuff if not better?
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level 1-10 random grouping 4v4 best kill ratio so far 18 fights to nil.
...you do realize this has no relevance whatsoever to the points being made? no? Instead of engaging in a wonderful e-peen contest you seem so dead set on winning...i concede. You are more e-virile than me, you have no need to prove it. Quote:
How am I (and how have I been) forcing my style of play on others? Am I pulling some Fascist/Nazi angle here? I don't see how I've been dressing up like the GuildWars Gestapo. And, the SoC system is what you make of it. If you treat it like a chore, it's going to feel like a chore, simple as that. As much as I want to avoid bringing in Cartesian philosophy...it's all in your head.
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And again, it comes back to viable solutions to the current state of SoC, where having all skill options available/unlocked is not going to remedy the problem of SoC. It's merely going to serve as a distraction.
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I just take a much more relaxed stance on the whole thing, and I can't see how a lot of people (both here and in the game itself) wouldn't benefit from relaxing a bit.|
Also, alot of you have no idea what you're talking about. The game is not balanced right now for PvP because skill acquisition is skewed towards those who put more time into the game. They are better based on the options they have available to them, not based on inherent skill.
So, let me get this straight. Because a Necromancer has Life Transfer, while a Mesmer doesn't have Ineptitude, PvP is imbalanced. Nevermind that there are other ways to work around/minimize a Necro Elite skill when you have no Elites of your own. You'd agree that it would be foolish to deny the existence of counter strategies with "normal" skills for an opposing Elite skill? Quote:
Well, okay, so even a simple interrupt like Power Leak or Power Spike (which the player gets relatively early in PvE, and I'd imagine in at least one of the pre-made builds in PvP) doesn't balance the playing field? Interrupts depend on player skill, so...even if they have some ability to interrupt the Necro's spell...the game is still imbalanced. Any interrupt, when utilized properly (i.e., player skill), can counter something like Grenths Balance, so I still fail to see how the game is imbalanced when it's damn near impossible for the Mesmer not to have some type of interrupt.
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I mean, I'm not implying that people are wrong for playing the game a certain way, necessarily, but I do think the observation that people are getting way too stressed/pissed off over something like SoC is an observation that has merit. It doesn't seem like they're playing the game to have fun, or to relax. It looks a lot like they're just slaves to PvP...obsessing over it, basically. Is this an inaccurate assessment? If I'm wrong, please tell me so.
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Alphas have been playing for over a year now i believe. People who preordered have been playing off and on since september of last year (maybe october). That you have only played since release has no bearing on this argument.|
Definetly, and that also imbalances the game just as bad. Those people are whiners that aren't trying to keep the game sane. It no longer turns the game into time>skill, but what it does make is for a game where people that play PvE RP toons are gimped when they enter Tombs/Arena/GvG.
And so like I (and others) have been saying, the SoC system is not broken, nor does it break the game. It's actually a very groovy idea, but just may need a small tweak to suit everyone. It's not horrible by any stretch of the imagination, because stealing a skill from a boss, then murdering his ass with his own skill is artistically, ironically delicious. It's akin to ripping someone's leg off and beating them with it, lol. Maybe my sense of humor is just a bit more twisted than most around here, but I find that damn funny. Quote:
You insult yourself far more effectively every single time you post than i could ever dream of doing.
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Signet of Capture a grind? Only if you cant appreciate the rest of the game apart from the PvE, in which case everything is a grind, in which case stop your moaning and refer to my suggestion about playing Counter Strike... As you continue to fail to grasp, people like the pvp portion of the game. I'm assuming you meant pvp because your paragraph would make even less sense if you actually meant pve.
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Wow, just wow. I can't believe you've managed to argued this over two pages. Skills were labelled Elite because they stood out above the rest. More often than not they will be a defining part of your build. There is a reason you can only have one on a bar at a time you know, and it has nothing to do with roleplay or semantics. At the time the label was concieved, the skills were no rarer than any others, nor were there plans in place to make them so. |
If you cannot see why, for the overall affect of the ENTIRE game, SoC works the way it does, then you are an idiot. If you see why but want it changed anyway for your own ease then you are a selfish fool, and should be listened to very rarely.
and if you cannot see why, for the overall effect of the game, SoC is just a ploy by a.net to add even more time to skill acquisition you are precisely what you have proven yourself to be every time you open your mouth - and should seriously consider winning a darwin award. Laz eventhorizen
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Originally Posted by Keure
If you really think 20-30 hours will grant the flexibility required for real PvP you are quite sadly mistaken.
As for the main topic, I can completely understand how the PvPers feel in terms of there being *no alternative* but to PvE for 100+ hours just to stay competitive. Unfortunately no real solution comes in mind to me at this time. There is no solution, those are the facts, accept them, deal with them, continue to expand your character, or leave the game. At this time that is the way it is. Having to PvE for non standard stuff keeps the game even, everyone that competes in the future will have to go through the same process, whether they like it or not. This manages to keep a PvP element and a PvE element of the game on a level footing as far as the competitors go, and lets everyone have access to the whole game, indeed 'forces' everyone to remain equal regardless of their aims. If its a grind to Capture Skills from bosses because of the PvE then itsa grind to PvE. Guild Wars is not PvP or PvE but is the entirety of what came on the 2 CD's. If you do not like the game, the whole game, no one is forcing you to play it, but do not about having to do certain things in a game, when that is the game. You dont like it, dont play it. Claiming its unbalanced because it makes you do things you dont like? Like I say grow up or stop playing. Lazarous
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You dont like it, dont play it. Claiming its unbalanced because it makes you do things you dont like? Like I say grow up or stop playing.
Or we could take the non-idiotic option and voice our complaints and concerns in a place where a.net can hear them. |
Oh yeah, that entire 'patch' concept...its so new and untried, we better just take it like men and never dare hope that it'll change. Laz Keure
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Originally Posted by eventhorizen
There is no solution, those are the facts, accept them, deal with them, continue to expand your character, or leave the game. At this time that is the way it is.
Having to PvE for non standard stuff keeps the game even, everyone that competes in the future will have to go through the same process, whether they like it or not. This manages to keep a PvP element and a PvE element of the game on a level footing as far as the competitors go, and lets everyone have access to the whole game, indeed 'forces' everyone to remain equal regardless of their aims. If its a grind to Capture Skills from bosses because of the PvE then itsa grind to PvE. Guild Wars is not PvP or PvE but is the entirety of what came on the 2 CD's. If you do not like the game, the whole game, no one is forcing you to play it, but do not about having to do certain things in a game, when that is the game. You dont like it, dont play it. Claiming its unbalanced because it makes you do things you dont like? Like I say grow up or stop playing. ...ya know, I'm enjoying PvE quite a bit, and am not personally affected by the current system. Maybe I want to eliminate the randomness that elite skill hunting involves, but otherwise I don't really care. However, others do, and I only commented in order to acknowledge that I can see how those who don't enjoy PvE, but enjoy PvP are not satisfied with how things are, and that I don't have any ideas right now to possibly make things better for them. To mark me with the "omfg little kid grow up" tag is pretty arrogant on your part. eventhorizen
Dude people who the take time to split up other peoples posts and insult them paragraph at a time tend to make themselves look bad, at least in my eyes.
Im going to ask you now to stop insulting me personally on these public forums, regardless of your opinion of me. If you think you have disguised your insults well enough in your text then we can let the moderators decide. If I insult myself, that is my right, and no one elses. You playing since Alpha has no bearing either. Even if it did mean you came into the game an expert, your advantage will last as long is takes others to understand the game. I dont think I have failed to grasp the fact people like PvP, its my favourite aspect of the entire game, indeed its the aspect of the game thats going to determine how long this game lives. Games that offer fun team based competition are what online gaming is almost 100% about. Few exceptions ofcourse. What annoys me though is people who dive into the game, with extremelly limited skill pools, basic weaponry etc. then coming online hammering their point across like its the law, and speaking to everyone else like they are fools. I dont suppose that will change though. All that aside it comes down to this. You and people like you, almost soley PvP only players with little interest or desire to play the RPG side of the game have an issue. This issue, funnily enough, relates to the difficulty, or time required to attain a fairly powerful object in the PvE enviroment. *SHOCK* Some people (alot, most? dunno) enjoy the RPG enviroment, indeed the entire game, as a whole. It would most likely, for all players, require a non mission based, non roleplay grind to achieve this object if its removed from mission bosses (ala purchasing it). Do you and others who have this problem feel it is right to upset the balance of an entire game in terms of missions and gains versus the availablity and ease of gain, in order to make your aspect of gaming more 'balanced' versus what others would think as 'unbalanced' or 'experiance altering/dumbing down'. If you do think that an RPG element of the game should made less roleplay stylee, and easier to get without RPGing so much, at the loss of some RPG content but for your own ease of playing, do the game developers agree? That is the question here, should the RPG element be made less Roleplaying, less indepth, less impressive for a RPG'er, so that players who dont like it can have a slightly easier time reaching their aims? Sidra Meum
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Originally Posted by Lazarous
Where did this asinine concept of 'working' in order to play a game come from? everquest?
Laz Nooo not Everquest!! Ultima Online! It was, after all, the first MMORPG. Nothing like spending 500 + hours working on a SINGLE skill to get GM in it. I can't see how people can even BEGIN to compare working 700 hours to reach level 32, or 500 hours to work a tailoring skill (which is considered "one of the seasy skills") to "having" or "being forced" to PvE/Grind/Capture/Farm for elite skills or high end runes when its a bonus of the game that they CHOOSE to do. Its a simple WANT vs. NEED. You do not NEED these things to PvP nor be or stay compedative in this game. Simple as that. You only WANT them. As I've said. ArenaNet gives you everything they said they were going to. The basics that you need to PVP in the game. Heck, they even give you more then just that. What they do not give you, and (heaven forbid) expect you to actually play the game to get yourself, are the items you WANT and only feel that you "need". Keure
Apology accepted.
People play games to have fun (well...most of them do, anyway). PvE and PvP are separate enough in terms of gameplay that I can understand how people would enjoy one part and not enjoy the other. What Anet has done is interlock the two together through the skill acquisition system. If you want PvP in its full glory, you need to spend 100+ hours on PvE. To some people, PvE is not fun. If you play to have fun, but have to spend 100+ hours on something that's not fun to you before you can have fun... eventhorizen
You play a different game?
S I L E N C E
OK.. I can really see why giving the PVP only players easy access to skills would kill the PVP..though the statment about making a team in order to just die doesnt make sence.. the groups your fight are random, you have no way of knowing if your going to be going up aginst said group. though i am unsure if in the GvG arena one guild can challenge..themselves? that doesnt seem to make sence for some reason.. to basicly making characters to just be slain would not matter.
The ONLY thing i can see that i disagree with SoC, is the complete randomness of the spawns...maybe make the mobs that use the said skills always spawn in the zone - in the same place- doing that wouldnt make the game easier, it would just cut back on the uneeded reloging of a zone. Sidra Meum
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Originally Posted by S I L E N C E
The ONLY thing i can see that i disagree with SoC, is the complete randomness of the spawns...maybe make the mobs that use the said skills always spawn in the zone - in the same place- doing that wouldnt make the game easier, it would just cut back on the uneeded reloging of a zone.
I agree and even suggested the same. I think if Anet chooses to continue in this route, and they more then likely will. Bosses should use certain, set skills and spawn in general area's - but not the same place exactly. You should have to hunt them down just not go to ___ location that is where he is. I think that would help solve a lot of issues. 
eventhorizen
I dont know. Does it not add to the 'mystique' of the game if you have someone who has put in a lot of effort and time into both PvP and PvE and has some special 'elite' rare skill very few others have?
I mean it might unbalance PvP, but the dude has become a real 'hero' of Guild Wars if you understand me, and gains access to certain abilities/powers very few have. Personally although I would hate to go up against someone who as a really superior skill and knows how to use it, that kind of gameplay idea is really impressive to me. Yes we will see untold numbers of complaints and rants from people about how 'unfair' it is etc. but its there to be gained by all, and your own inability to achieve it for whatever reason should not be the braking force behind nice ideas. People have to stop thinking about games now as things you stick on and bash away for a few hours, but rather as persistant worlds with their own lore, and laws etc. Why shouldnt we see players becoming legends in these worlds through their actions ingame and their abilities? It might unbalance purist PvP, but if that is what you are after you can always ignore the results of these 'overpowered' characters if you choose too. And for the rest of us who think this is a 'cool idea' it gives something to aim for, another classy idea in a great game, and an excuse to whine about if we lose, 'Man if it wasnt for that guys Holy Word of Total Doomz0r we woulda won'
Pharalon
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Originally Posted by Manderlock
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No one is trying to say people who play PvE don't bother with PvP.|
I mean it might unbalance PvP, but the dude has become a real 'hero' of Guild Wars if you understand me, and gains access to certain abilities/powers very few have.
What is the point of PvP if your chance of success is purely a function of the number of hours you've put into the game? ANet, and more importantly NCSoft, is pitching this game as the fist of a new breed of competitive games. They're hoping sales will hold up in the long run off a healthy PvP community, in addition to the excellent PvE community they have already captured. They wouldn't have had a $30k tournamnet before the game even went gold if they didn't have big plans in this direction. The PvP is of a level to live up to that hope, and easily so, but atm, there are some game mechanics, the SoC being one of the most prominent, that is likely to hold that back somewhat. Most people just want to play this game and have fun. If there's an aspect fo the game that they don't find fun, or worse, as in this case, actively impedes their ability to enjoy themselves, then the developers need to know about it. It's got nothing to do with appeasing whining PvPers, and everything to do with making the game as enjoyable as it can be, for all potential players. With that in mind, the SoC doesn't seem like a terrible mechanic from a RP standpoint. The implemention is cludgey, but the spirit behind it is good. These skills are the cream of the crop, often character defining, and it makes sense that they must be obtained in an unique fashion by characters nearing the pinnicle of their development. But from the PvP standpoint, what is the motivation behind the extra timesink involved in unlocking these skills? It is infact counter-intuitive. More than any others, these are the skills you must have access to to put yourself on a level playing field with top tier opposition. If you want to produce skill based PvP, with grind not being a differentiating factor between opponents, it follows that these skills should in fact be more readily available to unlock for PvP builds than other skills. We're seeing far, far the opposite with the SoC system, and it's a problem that needs to be addressed. Bamelin
Originally Posted by anduck (in response to Gaille)
I cannot see the challenge, the solution is right there in front of you: let PvP-oriented people unlock through PvP. Do not force them to spend hundreds of hours grinding through the PvE game multiple times and completing it to a far greater extent than most PvErs, which is the current situation. I am not sure that persons who argue in favor of the grind, including yourself, fully comprehend that. In fact, I am certain that they don't. The above was taken from the guild hall forums (http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/show...4&page=1&pp=25) and sums up the situation very nicely. I listen to those that enjoy PvE posting here that somehow it's ok that those who enjoy PvP are forced to endure countless hours of PvE. The current system doesn't make sense. The worst part is they had things perfect right up to the last beta. Elites could be bought off skill traders, everyone was happy, PvE crowd AND PvP. The bottom line is that the game was advertised as an essentially grind free PvP experience where player skill would matter more than time spent playing. This is obviously no longer the case ... is it any suprise the PvP crowd is howling about the sudden drastic change made between the last beta and retail release? Read the above quote closely ... all PvP'ers are really asking is a way to unlock skills and abilities in a manner we find fun ... through PvP. Just as PvE'ers can open skills and abilities in a manner THEY find fun ... through PvE. Fair is fair. goku19123
1) As a few others have mentioned so far: Elite skills are "elite" for balancing issues, eliminating skill combinations that are too powerful.
2) We all play this game to have fun, lets stop telling people they need a new game because one mechanic of this game annoys them and please no more arguing - we all have different opinions, because someone disagrees with you, does not mean his/her opinions are going to monopolize and take over your own. Arena.net is trying to cater to all people, lets also keep this in mind when we post...how to make everyone happy. 3) Contrary to the few people who said gold grinding is tedius: There is no gold grind. If you are at Lion's Arch with 2.5k gold, please, don't downplay an idea. By the end game many people have over 40k gold, yes it accumulates quickly. For those who think skills trainers selling elites at an exaggerated price is a gold grind, for your knowledge base, the higher armor at Copperhead Mines costs 15k a piece, times 5...Oh...75k gold for a new set of armor - just putting in perspective. 4) Of all these posts, there has only been three real suggestions: A) Making quests are the elite skills. i) This would make the monster always in a particular zone. ii) Easier to locate. iii) Less time consuming iv) Diffinately one of the harder suggestions to implement because of the scale a) Such as all the code to add quests, the npcs for the quest, et cetera B) Not having quests, but not randomizing spawns i) The monster will always be in said location ii) Less time hunting/re-instancing if the monster spawn varied on that try iii) Less time consuming in that you know what you are going for, for a fact iv) One of the easier suggestions to implement C) Making elite skills purchasable at vendors in addition to the SoC i) Allows casual gamers to work for an elite piece by piece ii) gives another way to get elites iii) Scalable from beginning to end iv) There really is no gold grind in the game v) One of the easier suggestions to implement Moreover, we could suggest a combination such as letter B+C. 5) What some consider a grind, others do not - merely an opinion each of us has, no need to argue because of it. 6) No one wants to see every skill available all at once in Ascalon City, or an "unlock all skills" tab, lets stop using that as the main arguement vs. easier skill accumulation. 7) At any time you have a time sink, you will have disparaties in what people have across the board. The problem arises when a time sink is added to something as critical as skills. Why is Tombs so easy right now? Because people who know what is going down right now, are out farming and getting elites, when they are done, you will see huge disparaties in power, with regards to skills. Something like this DOES throw into question the skill > time paradigm. There are many arguements such as: "You can have skills without elites in your skill set." True, skill is a very subjective thing to notice in other people. But for the record, most elites are very combo friendly. For high end PvP you need a mass assortment of skills for any future builds or team builds; that means that if a PvP only guild wants to try a new team buid, they all have to go make PvE characters and play for another 100+ hours just to have that team functional, at best. 8) Right now, the only feature making this "tolerable" is the unlock feature, but that doesn't really even help out the casual player. Lastly, a system like this has the potential to make or break the game for some people. I would like to see more suggestions if anyone can come up with any others. Just keep in mind that Arena.net is trying to make everyone happy, yet stay balanced in terms of PvE vs PvP. If this was your game, and you knew such a rift existed within the player base, and this game was your livelyhood, how would you fix it? Don't get me wrong either - Arena.net is a fantastic company with an awesome game. They have fixed many issues to date, and continue to please me as a consumer. Sidra Meum
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Originally Posted by Bamelin
I cannot see the challenge, the solution is right there in front of you: let PvP-oriented people unlock through PvP. Do not force them to spend hundreds of hours grinding through the PvE game multiple times and completing it to a far greater extent than most PvErs, which is the current situation. I am not sure that persons who argue in favor of the grind, including yourself, fully comprehend that. In fact, I am certain that they don't. The above was taken from the guild hall forums (http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/show...4&page=1&pp=25) and sums up the situation very nicely. I listen to those that enjoy PvE posting here that somehow it's ok that those who enjoy PvP are forced to endure countless hours of PvE. The current system doesn't make sense. The worst part is they had things perfect right up to the last beta. Elites could be bought off skill traders, everyone was happy, PvE crowd AND PvP. The bottom line is that the game was advertised as an essentially grind free PvP experience where player skill would matter more than time spent playing. This is obviously no longer the case ... is it any suprise the PvP crowd is howling about the sudden drastic change made between the last beta and retail release? Read the above quote closely ... all PvP'ers are really asking is a way to unlock skills and abilities in a manner we find fun ... through PvP. Just as PvE'ers can open skills and abilities in a manner THEY find fun ... through PvE. Fair is fair. Beta's are just that.. Beta's. Its a test to see HOW things are done, whether it is suitable and if it should be changed. There was nothing assuring anyone that the last beta would in anyway reflect the release of the game at all. But! I actually, have agree'd with it. To an extend. I think on a PvE standard, everything is fine. I think the Bosses could use a bit of tweeking - so as before stated they use SET skills and can be found in specific locations. But they shouldnt be set to always use their skill/s nor at the same spot. Sure. That is after all the RP aspect. However. PVP - Yes, It needs a bit of work. Still - ArenaNet has given EXACTLY what they advertised. The ability to PVP without any or little grind. You do not NEED to have an RP character at all. Sure you dont get the "mega kewl" stuff. That is a choice. HOWEVER. I do not feel that PVP players should be FORCED to RP a character. YES, I think they are missing out on a wonderful portion of the game. Still, their choice. It is my opinion that there should be an award system for PVP ONLY based characters and ascension characters. Such as, maybe an outpost only they can have access to, that has vendors which sell skills, runes, and everything of the like that they are supposed to "go work off and unlock". From my understanding - there is no reward system for the arena battles? Perhaps there should be. Awarding skill points for individual/team/group wins which then the player can use to later purchase the skills or elite skills they want. Items..? I don't know.. Large amounts of gold? Arena Wins give you 1 skill point and 500 gold? Who knows. Its just a raw idea. Another one would be, as people have said. Make SOME (not all and not many) Elite skills be quests. Or, as someone said. WHy don't the good guys have these?! I think something interesting would be to have to PvP against a major NPC from the storyline or furture story line. Defeating him would "proove your worthy" of obtaining the skill and unlocking it for you. I think that would be nice for both RP after acension and PVP side players. Basically fighting against a "Boss Henchmen" or something. Still, I happen to like the SoC. It needs tweeking, but I do not - overall, think of it a bad thing. eventhorizen
Let me just say that the 'PvP crowd' are not out grinding away unlocking more stuff than your average PvEr. What the hell is this game? There is not a lot of options if you dont like PvP other than explore every inch of what is admittadly a beautiful world, and wait for the next chapter.
Dont try and already split everyone up into the catagories, the PvP players are all being shafter, and the PvErs dont bother with pvp much. Thats total crap. If there is a bunch of people turning up to play expecting instant access to everything, then they obviously bought the wrong game. The reason, I think, for the SoC 'timesink' as people call it is abviously not your hard earned cash, because you dont pay to play, but the fact that such a vast amount of hardwork and talent has been put into creating this game, and the developers want to make you see it if you play this game. This may or may not be true, but what I see in these posts is just a bunch of impatient brats moaning about having to do something they dont want to. You really dont like fantasy RP? Why the hell did you buy Guild Wars? I dont understand. Reading the back of my box it says a lot about skill being the deciding factor in your victories and not how many hours you play. That doesnt mean you wont have play a lot to become good though, in terms of items skills/spells, or game skill. What next? Because if this signet of capture crap is around all ready, what about when people start losing battles because of the stats on a sword from PvE? You gonna demand they get nerfed/sold in towns too? Seriously, if your going to state that its the PvP oriented crowd that has this problem, and not the impatient want it now brats, then you will be far wrong, for I would imagine that most people who play are going to WANT to PvE to some degree, as well as PvP a lot. If you bought this game for the PvP alone then you KNEW before release the situation PvP only builds would be in, so dont bother coming in claiming its a major imbalance in the game, when all it is is damn laziness and selfishness on the side of the fools who want it all, without having to do anything in the game they dont want to. Games like that DO NOT EXIST. Whats the point in booting up a game, press an I AM UBER button, and thats it. Games dont cater to you, they cater to the masses, the masses knew to unlock the vast majority of stuff for PvP they would have to PvE, they still bought the game. So to come here and rant now is just rediculous, you are going to spoil what is overall a very balanced well though out game, simply because you do not want to play it all. Lame. goku19123
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Originally Posted by eventhorizen
Thats total crap. If there is a bunch of people turning up to play expecting instant access to everything, then they obviously bought the wrong game. |
No one is asking for instant access to everything.
Are you skimming the posts or actually reading them?
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Quote: Originally Posted by eventhorizen You really dont like fantasy RP? Why the hell did you buy Guild Wars? I dont understand. I don't understand why peoples' suggestions and opinions irritate you. Clearly we all love this game, it's why we bought it. Can we please stop the rants and flames, and try to be civil about this. Any items someone finds in PvE can be comparable to the items a customized PvP character gets access to. The items are balanced wonderfully, again, you are digressing from the point.
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Originally Posted by eventhorizen
If you bought this game for the PvP alone then you KNEW before release the situation PvP only builds would be in, so dont bother coming in claiming its a major imbalance in the game, when all it is is damn laziness and selfishness on the side of the fools who want it all, without having to do anything in the game they dont want to.
Yes, all beta testers who bought the game realized that unlocking skills would be in place. The imbalance issue comes into place when you look at the time constraints on actually obtaining some of the elite skills (that may or may not be in your particular builds' skill set). Some elites can be obtained in about 5-20 minutes, some take 1+ hours - and that's the point. The casual gamer (you know, those people who don't have their lives to dedicate to this game) is going to have extreme difficulty in getting those said skills. Clearly, the suggestions (and there are not many, unfortunately too many people like to troll around and argue when they can) are geared toward another way, or a slightly easier way, or a combination of ways, to get those skills. Arena.net wants people to work for elites, clearly, but the imbalance is the time issue. For a deeper response: This is why it throws into question the skill over time paradigm; the person who has more time has potentially more strategies at their finger tips than the casual gamer who has a limited number of strategies or counters to strategies, than the person who has more time on their hands(period).
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Did you even read what you were writing? In the bolded part you say that the box says game skill is the deciding factor not time. In the second it part you equate playing alot with more items and therefore more game skill. =/
Having more skills and abilities means that somebody who has spent more TIME playing the PvE portion of the game will have an advantage when playing PvP ... and last I checked PvP was supposed to be based on player skill ... not how many items one has had time to grind out for their avatar. Let me ask you this. Are you saying you think that it is a smart thing to give extra abilities and skills to certain players based soley on how much time they have spent grinding through PvE content? Do you not see how this would create a PvP environment that is NOT based on player skill but is instead based on abilities gained directly through amount of grind time? The reason most PvP'ers liked the way GW was set up is that they didn't have to PvE ... they could easily get all the skills they need at store vendors and play the game that they enjoy ... PvP Guildwars ... a PvP environment where EVERYBODY had access to the same set of tools from the get go. With the current system people that HATE PvE are being FORCED to do so in order to remain competitive. And yes we ARE being forced. How the heck are we expected to remain competitive if we don't spend the hundred plus hours required to get all the runes and elites? In the GvG environment builds change on the fly ... which means one must have ALL the elites and Superior Runes in order to be able to adapt one's avatar to deal with an ever changing tournement environment. Quote: If you bought this game for the PvP alone then you KNEW before release the situation PvP only builds would be in, so dont bother coming in claiming its a major imbalance in the game, when all it is is damn laziness and selfishness on the side of the fools who want it all, without having to do anything in the game they dont want to.
Um no we didn't? In the last beta two weeks before release elites were easily purchasable from vendors. It wasn't until retail that it was discovered we were now being forced to PvE missions countless times to farm out the runes and elites we need to remain competitive in PvP. Laziness and selfishness? Please. I play games to have fun ... not to "work" to get to the fun. Quote:
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