and it is grind free for the true *casual* playergrab a character play a few rounds go back to real life
for the hard core i want to be at the top of the ladder person you have to work for it
The Signet of Capture System Goes Against Fun Gameplay
Loviatar
and it is grind free for the true *casual* playergrab a character play a few rounds go back to real life
for the hard core i want to be at the top of the ladder person you have to work for it
Bamelin
Working for something means practicing though PvP matches to become a better player/guild team. Learning to adapt to different builds thrown at you.
Working for something should NOT mean repetitive useless grind to get to the point where you can start practicing.
Working for something should NOT mean repetitive useless grind to get to the point where you can start practicing.
Lazarous
There was also the suggestion to unlock your class skills after you complete the game's missions which would at least allow for more focused playing in order to unlock stuff. Jumping from mission to mission is at least better than endlessly repeating the same one.
If you consider a pvp reward system, you have to reward both parties that are playing. Only rewarding the winner is a sure way to provide massive disparity in relative power levels and make it so that the only people who play pvp are those that are interested in tournaments or just don't care about getting more skills - basically stripping away the usefulness of pvp rewards.
By far the logically simplest solution would just be to split up pvp and pve characters completely, as was mentioned before. That way you could have pvp characters unlocked and ready to go instantly and leave pve characters to do whatever they please,
How about this - perhaps have 'divisions' of pvp play. set certain skills to unlock at each division, and require some sort of accomplishment to advance between divisions. This idea has the problem that guild wars is very team based so the accomplishments would probably have to be team oriented, as wel as again having the problem of power disparities between winners and losers.
The easiest solution is adding elite skill trainers back.
Laz
If you consider a pvp reward system, you have to reward both parties that are playing. Only rewarding the winner is a sure way to provide massive disparity in relative power levels and make it so that the only people who play pvp are those that are interested in tournaments or just don't care about getting more skills - basically stripping away the usefulness of pvp rewards.
By far the logically simplest solution would just be to split up pvp and pve characters completely, as was mentioned before. That way you could have pvp characters unlocked and ready to go instantly and leave pve characters to do whatever they please,
How about this - perhaps have 'divisions' of pvp play. set certain skills to unlock at each division, and require some sort of accomplishment to advance between divisions. This idea has the problem that guild wars is very team based so the accomplishments would probably have to be team oriented, as wel as again having the problem of power disparities between winners and losers.
The easiest solution is adding elite skill trainers back.
Laz
mtxed
this game would be extremely unfun and boring if everything was handed to us.. why play pve? why go through all the trrouble of levelling up? dont expect to play the game for a week and be lvl20 with everything..
Lazarous
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Originally Posted by mtxed
Laz
goku19123
I have to agree with Laz, and I have said this a few times myself: No one, and I mean no one at all, is asking for everything to be handed to us in one fell swoop - we're asking for modifications/improvements. No one is saying there is a level grind.
igormak
Yes, its fun capturing elite skillz - I like, because only good players gain access to these skills. BUT, unlocking system sux so much.. I have completed the game, lvl20 Necro, made a quest in Underworld, completed 80% of sidequests and guess what? I HAVE UNLOCKED ONLY LESS THAN 10 MINOR RUNES. This is just ridiculous... Do I need to play over areas I have already completed? What the developers were thinking about? I am not playing anymore, waiting for the addon and studying...
Augy
The fact of the matter is, the demographics of MMOs show PvE'ers in the overwhelming majority. Dedicated, hardcore PvP'ers make up about 10-15% of any given MMO's playerbase (those that have a PvP aspect). Some have brought up the fact that anet is a business and wants to move boxes. Well, conducive to that, the numbers show catering to the PvE crowd will bring in more sales, and that includes the time-honored stick and carrot approach of questing for uber items/skills/spells.
This seems to be the crux upon which the PvP crowd bases their argument on: they want to PvP NOW with everything available NOW. Well, sadly, I really dont see any of that happening. There are plenty of games where there is no "grind" required to immediately be competitive and begin pwning your enemies. Doom 3 comes to mind. So, grumbling about how the entire game must change to appease a researched and confirmed minority of players is just a futile effort.
To the specific issue of the SoC: lets say they do make it a questable skill, or fix the mob spawn to a known area and profession, etc, the hardcore PvP crowd will still find room to whine. "Why should I have to quest for my l33tness, why cant I just buy it at the vendor? Why isn't it made available to me RIGHT NOW?!111!!!?//?" Well, again, you are simply playing the wrong type of game. Like another poster said, there isn't an adventure/rpg game in existence where some rare, elite item/skill is available right from the begining. Thats the novelty in playing this sort of game: power is "earned" so to speak.
The argument to this is: well, I PvP, and shouldn't be forced to PvE to be competitive. The nature of MMOs defies this assertion, and so do the numbers (see above). Again, there are plenty of games that accomplish just that. Go play those.
GW is an entire explorable world, but some are determined to remain in the tiny arena zones, and want all their skills handed to them. It just isnt happening. I dont care if you've played alpha, beta or whatever, this is the nature of this sort of game, period, for all time since there were just MUDs and text-based adventures.
Can we improve SoC? Sure. But only as long as you understand that more than likely it will be changed so that its still earned. Will anet change something as integral to adventuring as finding new skills and weapons via questing? More than likely not. Thems the facts.
Its just a game, if you're really having that bad a time playing, just stop.
This seems to be the crux upon which the PvP crowd bases their argument on: they want to PvP NOW with everything available NOW. Well, sadly, I really dont see any of that happening. There are plenty of games where there is no "grind" required to immediately be competitive and begin pwning your enemies. Doom 3 comes to mind. So, grumbling about how the entire game must change to appease a researched and confirmed minority of players is just a futile effort.
To the specific issue of the SoC: lets say they do make it a questable skill, or fix the mob spawn to a known area and profession, etc, the hardcore PvP crowd will still find room to whine. "Why should I have to quest for my l33tness, why cant I just buy it at the vendor? Why isn't it made available to me RIGHT NOW?!111!!!?//?" Well, again, you are simply playing the wrong type of game. Like another poster said, there isn't an adventure/rpg game in existence where some rare, elite item/skill is available right from the begining. Thats the novelty in playing this sort of game: power is "earned" so to speak.
The argument to this is: well, I PvP, and shouldn't be forced to PvE to be competitive. The nature of MMOs defies this assertion, and so do the numbers (see above). Again, there are plenty of games that accomplish just that. Go play those.
GW is an entire explorable world, but some are determined to remain in the tiny arena zones, and want all their skills handed to them. It just isnt happening. I dont care if you've played alpha, beta or whatever, this is the nature of this sort of game, period, for all time since there were just MUDs and text-based adventures.
Can we improve SoC? Sure. But only as long as you understand that more than likely it will be changed so that its still earned. Will anet change something as integral to adventuring as finding new skills and weapons via questing? More than likely not. Thems the facts.
Its just a game, if you're really having that bad a time playing, just stop.
Lazarous
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The argument to this is: well, I PvP, and shouldn't be forced to PvE to be competitive. The nature of MMOs defies this assertion, and so do the numbers (see above). Again, there are plenty of games that accomplish just that. Go play those.
Then serperate pvp and pve completely and be done with it. In catering to the majority exclusively, they're seriously alienating the minority...and they don't have to.If PvE is such an overwhelming majority it doesn't really matter if there is a completely dissociated set of pvpers, does it? PvE can go about questing or whatever it is they do in their spare time.
But forget that - make elites function like normal skills in that if you pass a certain area you gain access to them from a trainer...yet you can aquire them earlier and cheaper by using a SoC. How does this alienate pvers?
Laz
zemelett
If you want all your skills unlocked right from the start you should be playing a FPS where all you have to do is run around some map and find the super weapon then blast the hell out of everyone with it. Sure GW made it so you could unlock all the skills for the BWE but this is no longer BWE. Also IMO i like to have a chance to test out my skill set on the PvE parts and familiarize myself with the skills, which ones complement others best and stuff like that. That way when I go into a PvP battle I'm not casting spells willy nilly and wasting their potential!
Lazarous
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Originally Posted by zemelett
If you want all your skills unlocked right from the start you should be playing a FPS where all you have to do is run around some map and find the super weapon then blast the hell out of everyone with it. Sure GW made it so you could unlock all the skills for the BWE but this is no longer BWE. Also IMO i like to have a chance to test out my skill set on the PvE parts and familiarize myself with the skills, which ones complement others best and stuff like that. That way when I go into a PvP battle I'm not casting spells willy nilly and wasting their potential!
Stop arguing with yourself and try to address the actual points people are making.
Loviatar
the best and easiest solution is to nerf the elites down to regular skill power and make them available as *horrible thought* 
any other skill
problem solved everybody is happy because it is now a level playing field
as for runes and rare upgrades?
dont allow them in pvp at all making skill truly what counts
any other skillproblem solved everybody is happy because it is now a level playing field
as for runes and rare upgrades?
dont allow them in pvp at all making skill truly what counts
decog
For all the time it's taken to type those laborously long replies (i'm actually quite impressed) you could have unlocked all the skills in PvE already.
lol
.d
lol
.d
Lazarous
They've been balancing skills with elites in mind now for a while - removing them is probably non-trivial.
As to runes, i pretty much agree. Either make them a lot more available or remove them from competition.
Laz
As to runes, i pretty much agree. Either make them a lot more available or remove them from competition.
Laz
Augy
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Originally Posted by Lazarous
If PvE is such an overwhelming majority it doesn't really matter if there is a completely dissociated set of pvpers, does it? PvE can go about questing or whatever it is they do in their spare time.
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Don't be frustrated. It's not a disparaging argument (from me at least). I accept it, hell, I EMBRACE it. What other point is there to battle than victory, l33tness, and adding some insult to injury? Thats the fun in PvP for me, to win. I'm as guilty as you when it comes to wanting to be competitive, and lay the smack down. |
But forget that - make elites function like normal skills in that if you pass a certain area you gain access to them from a trainer...yet you can aquire them earlier and cheaper by using a SoC. How does this alienate pvers?
It doesn't, and thats a perfecty reasonable suggestion. However, thats not the sole issue being discussed by many here. Many are upset they have to quest just to get runes, certain skills, items AT ALL, so that they are competitive in the area. I have no problem changing SoC, getting rid of elites, or changing them to normal skills. What I have a problem with are those trying to turn an adventuring game into a FPS with swords and fireballs. Its just not the nature of the beast. Having played a few MMOs previous to this one, anet has effectively solved the grind. Instanced zones, one click travel, etc, has made this a joy to play. The PvP was just the icing on the cake for me, but if I want to play a game that devotes its entire paradigm to instant PvPing, then GW is not it.
goku19123
One thing I am very tired of hearing is people who say "if you want everything now go play a FPS." But guess what? NOT ONE DAMN PERSON IS ASKING FOR EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW!
Seriously, does anyone posting recently read ENGLISH? NO? I had a feeling they didn't. Does it really matter if someone SoC's an elite they searched for, or bought that same elite from a vendor for a skill point and vast some of gold? No one is asking for everything right now, for the last time. There needs to be modifications so that you can get elite skills in other ways. Having the SoC AND being able to purchase them is the same kind of time sink - either way your going to spend time trying to get the elite skill. And it doesn't matter who MMO's are geared for, the fact is all kinds of people play them, and so far, Arena.net is doing a damn good job keeping people happy, this seems to be the ONE MAJOR AREA OF DISAPPOINTMENT for some. Just because someone has an issue with the SoC system, does not mean they are not willing to work for an elite skill. I don't have the kind of time to sit around for an hour+ trying to get one skill, and I'm sure others face this issue as well. Who cares if I spend 3k gold for an elite skill, while that 3k gold takes the same amount of time to build up cumulatively as it would have cost time-wise to just go SoC it? Lazarous
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Again, thats NOT the nature of MMOs. The only seperation is electing to fight other live players or not. What you're asking for is 3D Nox, where you can just boot up the game and go at it. You are asking for two different games. If everything was made available so easily, then everyone would be level 20 with every item, rune and skill. The game would function for all about a week before you were left with PvPers whos sole interest is fighting each other. This game, like all other MMOs with a PvP aspect, has an electable option to do both, when you want to. There are plenty of MMOs where there is PvE exclusively. PvP adds the extra dimension to where you can use those items/skills you earned to actually kick another live player's ass, and thats fun. What you're asking for is everything be instantly available and disperate from the entire other side of the equation; then its no longer an MMO, its just Nox in 3D. If a developer saw a profit to be made in such a game, it would've been made by now I think.
Guild wars marketed itself as the mmo mold breaker. Up until release this was mostly true - then they turned around and added huge grind requirements to exactly the people that wanted it least. To put it simply, there isn't enough game content there to appease the farming masses that don't want to pvp. The world is fairly small and only appears larger because of the desnse monster spawns. Levels are capped early. The endgame content is almost pure pvp, the recent timesinks to do pvp competitively notiwthstanding. Adding massive timesinks to a game that doesn't have pay to play boggles me. It makes no sense. |
It massively frustrates me that the opposition to this issue keeps bringing up the epeen argument. Runes are for a different discussion, honestly - they have their own issues. Laz
decog
"Just because someone has an issue with the SoC system, does not mean they are not willing to work for an elite skill. I don't have the kind of time to sit around for an hour+ trying to get one skill, and I'm sure others face this issue as well. Who cares if I spend 3k gold for an elite skill, while that 3k gold takes the same amount of time to build up cumulatively as it would have cost time-wise to just go SoC it?"
did you just contradict yourself? I'm not trying to be an @$$ but it reads wierd. .d Loviatar
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Originally Posted by goku19123
Having the SoC AND being able to purchase them is the same kind of time sink - either way your going to spend time trying to get the elite skill.
? one important point is that if it available for any amount of gold it will not be a time sink for the pvp want it now crowd the super competitive guilds will allow non pvp members to share their lofty cape and name in return for farming goodies and turning them over to the guild for use the pve member gets so called status from being in a top guild the guild gets free money and upgrades guild member xxx needs this elite skill at 50 plat and simply gets it from the guild leader and buys it
Augy
Quote:
Originally Posted by goku19123
One thing I am very tired of hearing is people who say "if you want everything now go play a FPS." But guess what? NOT ONE DAMN PERSON IS ASKING FOR EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW!
Seriously, does anyone posting recently read ENGLISH? NO? I had a feeling they didn't. If people are upset that they have to farm runes, items, and quest for skills, then whats the alternative? "well, make rare drops more common, give us more runes, make skills easier to obtain." Where does that leave the remaining 80% of the playerbase? Again, what is IMPLIED by the complaining is that GW is too much "grind." how much is enough grind? What is too much grind? If you want things to come so easy, just so you can /flex after winning in the arena, why not just have it all handed to you? People want an uber toon in ten minutes a week of game play. Like i've been saying, thats COUNTER to what mmo's are. If your life is filled with such obligation that you have one hour to do any leisure activities on any given day/night, then you shouldnt be playing MMOs at all. The very nature of these games demand a time investment. Thats how they work, and thats the attraction for many: the endless replay they offer with new experiences. Thats why many are saying "go play an FPS." An FPS requires no time investment, its instant action then you turn it off. MMOs are an entirely different animal. Lazarous
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Where does that leave the remaining 80% of the playerbase? Again, what is IMPLIED by the complaining is that GW is too much "grind." how much is enough grind? What is too much grind? If you want things to come so easy, just so you can /flex after winning in the arena, why not just have it all handed to you? People want an uber toon in ten minutes a week of game play. Like i've been saying, thats COUNTER to what mmo's are. If your life is filled with such obligation that you have one hour to do any leisure activities on any given day/night, then you shouldnt be playing MMOs at all. The very nature of these games demand a time investment. Thats how they work, and thats the attraction for many: the endless replay they offer with new experiences.
Point. The skill system is balanced against itself when competing parties have full access to skills. Point. Getting to level 20 with full armor and appropriate weapons, skills and runes does not make you a god, but it does give you a serious advantage that thereby requires all people who wish to be competitive to have equivalent items/skills. Point. Guild wars isn't an mmo in any traditional sense of the word. The closest parallels are diablo2 and ccg's like magic the gathering. Its basic premise that drew all the people complaining in was that skill>time. To say outright that this was a lie and everyone who's angry at the massive change from beta to release should pack up their bags and leave is childish. You want other games that require no time investment? Chess. Cards. RTS's, TBS's...etc. Pretty much the only game type that requires you to work in order to get to the fun parts is mmo's, and a.net said guild wars wasn't supposed to be like that. Laz
Augy
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Originally Posted by Lazarous
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Point. Getting to level 20 with full armor and appropriate weapons, skills and runes does not make you a god, but it does give you a serious advantage that thereby requires all people who wish to be competitive to have equivalent items/skills.
I'll agree with you to a certain extent here. Armor, runes and items make a difference. However, given the right skill set and circumstances, even these advantages are overcome. Some guy could have all the nifty items and still lack the basic common sense not to charge out in front and alone in the arena. Or, just be caught away from the group, called out, and taken down.
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Originally Posted by EetGnomeMasher
And this is exactly the mentality a lot of you grinders have. All you want is to show off your E-peens in where you had tons of time to waste. You people don't care about balance or fun, it's all about your egos. You have time to waste and others don't, so you'd rather have this current grind so you can be "special" as long as you can. Wasn't GW supposed to be skill based not time spent?
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Thank you, Loviatar. Couldn't have said it better myself. For the casual gamers, this SoC business isn't an issue. For the hardcore powergamer/powergrinder mentality...it is an issue.|
Originally Posted by Lazarous
Point. Guild wars isn't an mmo in any traditional sense of the word. The closest parallels are diablo2 and ccg's like magic the gathering. Its basic premise that drew all the people complaining in was that skill>time. To say outright that this was a lie and everyone who's angry at the massive change from beta to release should pack up their bags and leave is childish.
It still has many, many aspects to the MMO genre, and this "cooperative" stuff I cynically believe is just clever wording made up by a marketing dept. You quest, get xp, horde loot, talk smack, kick your buddies ass in the arena, trade, and advance yourself generally. Sounds pretty MMOish to me.
Even after its all said and done, its just a game. If you're finding yourself stressed out at your primary source of amusement, man, just put it down and play something you truly derive enjoyment from. Or, concentrate on the aspects that amuse you most. But, according to some, I'm just a newb that doesn't know what he's talking about. Because as we all know, Dev's always fully disclose all aspects of the game, the marketing is always 100% accurate, and the packaging and press releases are in no way worded to generate more sales, ever. lol. butcherboy
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Originally Posted by master
That's not true. PvP is the premise of the game. Guild Wars is all about pvp and it was not something they just added. The gameplay of skills reflects this. The company background reflects this. Just because they did a good job in PvE and making PvE story driving does not mean the game is not about PvP. In the story, the "Guilds Wars" are the guilds battling each other in PvP.
That was PRE-SEARING. While you are wandering around for that elite skill why not read that cool book about a Spanish guy named Manual. As you may note, most of the skills are post-searing
 . Also, in case you haven't noticed, the "Guild Wars" never actually are depicted in anyway other than stories so it technically wasn't PvP, maybe NPCvNPC though.As for the company background, isn't this the first ArenaNet game made by folks who left Blizzard before WoW? Not a lot to say there is a PvP history there... encore has PvP history but ArenaNet does not. Lots of RTS PvP but no RPG PvP. This is their first game. With deathmatch as a sole PvP aspect vice the PvE having dozens of hours of non-PvP action, GW is a PvE game with PvP along for the ride. Eet GnomeSmasher
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Originally Posted by eventhorizen
I dont know. Does it not add to the 'mystique' of the game if you have someone who has put in a lot of effort and time into both PvP and PvE and has some special 'elite' rare skill very few others have?
I mean it might unbalance PvP, but the dude has become a real 'hero' of Guild Wars if you understand me, and gains access to certain abilities/powers very few have. And this is exactly the mentality a lot of you grinders have. All you want is to show off your E-peens in where you had tons of time to waste. You people don't care about balance or fun, it's all about your egos. You have time to waste and others don't, so you'd rather have this current grind so you can be "special" as long as you can. Wasn't GW supposed to be skill based not time spent? It's sad that the only fun you can get is to be a "hero" with a lot of time on his hand instead of actually being skilled. It's sad people are still brainwashed into thinking that wasting time over something tedious and repetitive is fun and considered a worthy accomplishment.
Siren
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
and it is grind free for the true *casual* playergrab a character play a few rounds go back to real life for the hard core i want to be at the top of the ladder person you have to work for it |
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Quote: Originally Posted by Blackace Lazarous just stop arguing with newbs that swear they know what they are talking about. It's funny that alot of these people are speaking for ArenaNet when the devs arent saying what these people are claiming. Also if you think Guild Wars was relying on PvE only to guarantee it's success you are plain wrong. I don't think it's terribly difficult to accurately read a paragraph in the GW Synopsis. It's not even a matter of speaking for ArenaNet when I'm explaining what that press release means; it's simply showing what the press release means, because there have been some blatant misinterpretations of it.
Quote: Originally Posted by Lazarous You want other games that require no time investment? Chess. Lazarous, you don't want to go there. Trust me on this. Chess is not some pick-up-and-play boardgame like Checkers (and even Checkers is deceptively simple). Chess most definitely requires a time investment to become proficient at it, and to get to the fun parts. A beginner isn't going to stand a chance playing Bobby Fisher, but you're seemingly implying a newbie could put up an effective defense against Fisher.
I don't know how old you are, but there were Chess halls in NYC back in the 60s that my father frequented regularly, and understand that the regulars there could demolish most of the upstarts and newbies in under 15 minutes, and even less in speed Chess.
Chess requires just as much strategy and devotion as GuildWars, whether or not you believe it, and in fact, much of the approaches in speed Chess directly apply to tactics in GuildWars. Hell, GuildWars is a huge game of Chess at times.
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Again, let's look at the implications of these two clauses here. Selling Elite skills for vast sums of gold and a skill point gives people a way around the gold cost. You're suggesting selling skills at high prices, which would require players to amass loads of gold...and this allows them to bypass the gold cost how? They're nabbing gold specifically for the purpose of buying skills. How are they working around the gold cost? You're selling the skills.|
Originally Posted by goku19123
One thing I am very tired of hearing is people who say "if you want everything now go play a FPS." But guess what? NOT ONE DAMN PERSON IS ASKING FOR EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW! No one, and I mean no one at all, is asking for everything to be handed to us in one fell swoop - we're asking for modifications/improvements. No one is saying there is a level grind. When you're asking for Elite skill vendors...and Elite skill acquisition is the focus of this discussion...how are you not asking for everything right now? You've had post after post talking about how it would be so much better if PvPers could buy the skills they needed, and since the gold drops are so huge later in the game...how are you not asking for everything right now? The content of your post, your ideas, etc., betray what you just claimed. I'll simplify it: If you stock Vendors with Elite skills that are readily available for purchase, even at exorbitant prices, and near-end-game/end-game players will be able to buy them immediately...that's asking for something to be given to you in one fell swoop. Elites acquistion is the focus of this discussion, and what you're suggesting is precisely giving PvPers everything in one fell swoop. No matter what you say, goku, that's what your suggestion boils down to...just read between the lines and consider the implications. Quote:
goku, again, I'd like to point out that by adding in another system to acquire Elite skills, you're doing nothing to actually solve the problem of the SoC system. All you're doing is bypassing it, and bypassing it isn't a viable option here, because the system itself needs to be tweaked, because it is a viable system in concept (and to scrap it entirely would be a shame). Even as an alternative to the SoC system, adding in Elite skill vendors is missing the point entirely. Do you get what I'm saying?
All the Elite skill vendor idea would be doing is further complicating things. What needs to be done is some type of streamline to the SoC system, the most feasible (and I think most here are agreed on it being the best) solution is a Quest-based Elite SoC system. It's nice that you All-Capped that sentence in your post there, but it's not as if I don't understand what you're saying. I do understand, and that's why I'm debating it. Quote: |
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At least with the Quest-based SoC suggestion, the casual gamer (or powergamer) doesn't have to go farming, nor does he/she have to spend hours and/or mow down high-level mobs to get one skill. You would earn the Elite skills by completing the missions, which would be more difficult than the "regular" ones, but still do-able without being required to be Level 20.
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Where did you specify at all what you were talking about (the scaled Elite vendors)? Again, unintentional ambiguity in your posts is going to lead to misinterpretations, goku, and again, I was operating under a perfectly sound interpretation, because your posts were exceedingly poorly written. goku, I don't mean to sound harsh here, but you're blaming me for a fault of your own.|
Not one suggestion so far has been to give someone everything all at once, so lets drop that from the list of reasons, shall we?
Selling Elite skills in vendors...that's giving someone everything all at once, and on more than one occasion have others (who are critical of the current state of the SoC system, mind) dismissed that idea, Blackace included, I believe. It's like buying research papers off of random Insta-Paper sites rather than researching and writing the paper on your own. Quote:
I'd like to point out your mention of the end game there. You were focusing solely on high-level content (40k gold, Copperhead Mines armor), so I'd hardly think it's some fault of my own when I treated your post (and following posts) as dealing specifically with high-level vendors selling Elite skills near or at the end game.
Again: Quote: |
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Now, had your posts been well-written, clear, and concise all the way through, I could see how people could be entirely wrong in assuming you were saying something that ultimately you were not. But the fact remains that your posts have not been well-written, nor have they been clear, nor have they been concise, so I'd highly recommend that before you go getting your panties into a twist and screaming bloody murder, as it were, you may want to re-evaluate your posting habits, because as it stands now, some of your posts are nearly unreadable...and I'm an English major.
Not to sound pompous or anything, because I really don't enjoy that, but I've been studying Literature and have immersed myself in Lit Theory for a solid five years now, so I know my way around writing, and it would take an abysmally scattered and unfocused piece of writing for me to misinterpret anything. Take this however you will, but in the larger scheme of this thread...you've only articulated your idea once, and that was within your last two posts.
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Edit: By the way, I still see the "people who want everything all at once go play CS" arguement still coming up...lets stop using, since clearly no one is asking for anything all at once. I think a good question here is: For those who think some suggestions are "everything all at once," what is your definition of "everything all at once?" Because, and if I'm wrong feel free to correct, some tend to think that putting vendors scaled from post-searing Ascalon to the end game with elite skills and a price tag that scales upward is "everything all at once." I'm also not sure if these people read or skim either, but I'm leaning towards skim since many things (such as the questing for elites part) I had covered already, as well as combination suggestions. And again, I refer you to above. Had you typed what you meant throughout the thread, and made it clear what you meant, there would have never been any confusion to begin with. Quote:
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