Change to Heroes' Ascent

It is really hard for me to respond to this without automatically going "thats ridiculous" because it sounds ridiculous and I dont wanna post the reasons because I know you posted it as an example. I understand where you are coming from taking something I really enjoy and changing it. They already have. Those of you that don't gvg don't really know how they did.

1 - lost a bodyguard, and an archer, added two knights that might aswel be placed in the open and not by the lord cause they never stay there long. Each bodyguard healed the hero, now its only one. These bodyguards offered VICIOUS aoe at vod together, but now only one is left to heal and deal dmg. The damage at vod was reduced on the NPC's heavily.
2- vod comes at 20 minutes and automatically is placed on u at 20 instead of being affected by the shout if in earshot. This means at 20 minutes we lost 25% health, and get hit with 25% EXTRA damage. E-Surges to 100dmg aoe at vod. It hurts alot.
3- the npc pathing has changed slightly. No longer do the NPC's ball up before they march. This prevents a catapult from killing them ALL in one big chunk, some npcs will almost always get through unless ur extremely lucky or u got agro at the gate to keep em in place.

There have been changes in the past also, but I can't remember. I think it is time HA got shooken up, and forming a pug in HA with 8 players is more difficult than people think. With 6 people now it won't be so hard. I can understand the HAers grief believe me, but its a change that seriously needed to happen.

I will love 6vs6, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

I know the first days will be a lot of vimways, etc, etc, etc., but that will be changing with time, I am sure the really pro people are already thinking in 6 men balanced builds for kick asses in 6vs6; don't worry, be happy

EDIT: Maybe they must change too 12vs12 to 8vs8 (or 9vs9 because the 3 portals)

...i dont really know what to make of this...on one hand yes i will admit ha is crap if ur unranked and not in a good allience as u are limited to vimway, boring and a crap way to earn fame. but if u get a good allience u can start taking ha more seriously and get better builds. i really dont like this 6v6 stuff. i mean i can see why they didnt make a seperate area for 6v6 competitive play. it will simply spread the game even thinner, for example "the jade quarry" completly pointless, now and again u will get one person there but never 8 so u can never play it. the same thing would have happened at HA.However people like HA the way it is 8v8 is fun and allows a lot of diversity things like the 3 monk bakline will become unusable and the vast majority of my guild is upset about this. i think it will spur some interest in HA for a few weeks but then it will die down and will probably cause more harm than good. imo anet is digging a hole for itself...

The only way i will agree with the 6v6 ha move. is if they bring back 6 way burial mounds 5 way halls and 6 way scared earth and 3 way broken tower. etc.

i completly agree with you man. HA is about to become stupid. there will be no more room for original builds because the 6 ppl setup is too limited. i'm frustrated that they're doing this instead of creating a new area were ppl can fight 6v6. it's not fair that only gvg players will get to play 8.
after this ridiculous change i'm certain HA will slowly die since most players that regularly play HA will get bored of the new vims and thump/smite that will be roaming around. what attracted ppl to HA is exacly the 8v8! it's like playing gvg but without all the stress of losing rating. and 8v8 also gives room to so many builds. specially now when nightfall comes out, there will be 10 goddamn professions! and in 6v6 u can't even get the chance to think an original build of any sort! of all the things, i EXPECTED some new pvp area with a party LARGER than 8. in any case not a shrinkage to 6.. seriously wtf is this.

i could give 100 more arguments why shrinking the party is a bad idea but i know anet is not ever gonna read this post or any other that doesn't agree with their stupid idea. all i can say is that anet just lost 1 more costumer for future chapters.

ehhh i dont like 6v6, the two extra player slots destroy many awesome builds, like someone said before, HA is going to be dominated by gimmicks, but it wouldn't change anything because thats what it is now, i think that is not true because all tho people insist on Vimwaying iwaying smiting b spiking, its the smarter players that make counter balanced builds that gimmicks dont stand a chance against. But anyway, who cares, its not like anything we say makes a difference, they just dont care.

But at the same time, many new awesome builds will be created.
That doesn't change with 6v6 either. Smarter players will still make the 'counter-balanced' builds.

It isnt like you need HA to play, i mean, surely this isnt as bad as completely removing pve/pvp is it?

Oh, and yes, I kinda have 3 fame. o.O

More like:

VIM, VIM, Smite, Degen, Smite, Degen, Degen, Degen, <lose>
VIM, VIM, Degen, Degen, Smite, Degen <lose>
Nubway, VIM, VIM, Degen, Smite, Smite, Degen, <lose>
VIM, VIM, etc.

You forgot that Vim doesn't get bast burial mounds.

EDIT: Not implying that I was a lone hero playing balanced. We ran mostly smite during the 6v6 weekend as well. Lawnmower ftw.

Each person in support/against this should state their rank and what builds they tend to run.

I support the change, I'm r9/r5 on two accounts, and prefer to run grab&go. Other than that I prefer hard offense builds with multiple wars and fire eles.

[QUOTE=Boofhead]Or perhaps I like to play the early morning hours when the Koreans play, where its all balanced? Maybe you unranked PvE noobs can stay out of HA and go run droks, and leave the real players with what we have come to love to play.

And for Trevor Reznik's point: I am a rank 10 player who has only played guild wars for the last 8 months strictly for HA. I hate PvE and RA, now that HA is going to be like TA, I might have to find a new game to play.

I think it's the end for decent balance builds in tombs. Why do I think this? Well, a good balance build in a 8v8 setting is already cram packed with counter-y goodness that is all-in-all "balance" in terms of offense, defense, and mitigation. So now you've shrunk the balance builds to a 6v6 setting to a point where you're running below barebones in dealing with opposing team builds. Imo, you just don't have enough skills in your build to oppose the variations of other teams out there (48 skills vs 64) and in the end, running gimmicks just seems more efficient in winning.

How about you all just stop arguing and get ANET TO OFFER BOTH MODES!!!!!!!!

Since the Realm of torment and the underworld are connected in some ways via the mists, I would assume that Nightfall will bring some new maps into the Ascent process.

BTW, this should also effect other portals into the mists as well, Meaning the Temple of Ages, Zin Ku Corridor, and the Tomb of Primevil Kings ruins... So expect that SOME effects of Nightfall will spread back to other chapters, Even if you DON'T Have Nightfall added to your account.

Looking forward to it...

Oh and when you see the new change I think you will like it... Its not as bad as you guys are thinking... think more 12 v 12 style and you will understand why the change to parties of 6... THis is intended to force a bit of a mix up of things FINALLY in the HALL process.

The game evolves even if the players can't seem too...

offering both modes would be the best idea ever. but anet won't do that because they are lazy and once they pocket their money, they don't care.

and i agree with Aejorii, we'll be witnessing the end of balanced/original builds. o well, time to go cap air of enchantment on my monk and quit this non-sense once i hit r12. i'm quite sure the ppl supporting this change are either low ranked or r9+ ex iway players. no offence meant, just stating some facts.

Ugh I might get used to this change. As I play more into the 6v6 I might like it more. Maybe Arenanet could have a special weekend 8v8 Heros Ascent a few months later.

Wow, so many people get so emotional whenever a big change in the game is rolled out. I find it very interesting that many of the arguments against 6v6 are arguments that can already be applied to 8v8 HA as it exists now. Let's just take a few minutes and think about some things.

1) 6v6 will become plagued by gimmick builds. Ok, well, for the most part, it is already. IWAY drove away many HA players, and Vimway et. al. has made the situation even worse. At least with 6v6, gimmick builds will be much easier to counter due to decreased versatility that can be carried in a given team. If smite takes over, how long is it going to be before everyone runs a smite counter build? Not long. Now, I do slightly worry that with 6v6, a rock, paper, scissors setup may occur; however, I believe there will be a much larger pool of builds to choose from with 6v6. This will additionally be dependent to some extent on what "new maps" and what kind of setup is brought about by this change.

2) All the time I've put into HA is going to be completely wasted and irrelevant by this change. Let's look at that. What exactly does rank denote (or rather, what is it supposed to?)? Theoretically, it indicates someone who has a lot of experience with pvp. But does it really? Of course not. All rank really denotes anymore is how much HA you've played and nothing more. If you think your rank really means something anymore, then you're delusional. Since IWAY came around, rank is largely irrelevant and I've played with plenty of terrible R9+ people. Additionally, let's assume rank does mean you're a good pvp player. If you're truly a good pvp player, then adapting to 6v6 or 4v4 or 18v18 should not be much of a problem for you. Things will change, surely, but a good pvp player is a good pvp player. It is necessary to at least be familiar with the HA maps/GvG maps to play in those formats, but if you've played more than 1 or 2 matches, that should not be a real issue, and understanding/learning the new map and setup cannot be all that difficult.

3) Enjoyment factor. I can speak from personal experience and empathize with those who used to enjoy HA and hate it now. I played HA a lot when the game first came up and basically until the time IWAY became very popular. I've basically stopped playing since you were forced to run IWAY, VIMway, or spike of some kind if you wanted to get a PUG group that didn't lose to the Zaishen. Many people feel that way. My guild used to HA and a lot of our members would HA, but many have stopped entirely in the last 6 months. Additionally, the number of people overall at HA at any given time has noticeably decreased over a period of time. On top of all that, matches will move much faster, and it will be a much faster paced game.

4) "High level competition." Quite a few people have made comments alluding to the fact that HA is so much more competitive than your average pvp arena. BS. Valid counterarguments to this idea have been presented, so I won't spend much time on it, but the competition in HA is sometimes decent, and sometimes crap. If you really want to make pvp hard on yourself, try playing some AB on the Kurzicks side in the early afternoon... if your l33t team of 4 can overcome the absolute stupidity of the other 8, then you'll know just how good you really are. Now, unfortunately, I doubt 6v6 will be any less "elitist" or "competitive" than HA is now, because let's face it, anytime you are winning any kind of reward (i.e. fame), people are going to be tools. Additionally, you are going to still have the r9+ only groups and so on, but by virtue of many more people playing HA (which, there absolutely WILL be), it will be much easier to get a PUG unranked group or a low ranked group.

Overall, this is going to really increase the enjoyment of people in HA and will bring many new people into the fold. I don't understand why people who play HA frequently right now would not want to have a lot of new people (or even old people like me that used to play and don't anymore) brought back into the fold. Well, I do know, actually, it's because as we've seen from many people's posts here, if you're a new person, you're a n00b, you don't know what you're talking about, you have no right to comment on HA, and so on.

I'm not going to call all the people who don't like this change or think it's going to be horrible "whiners," as that doesn't contribute much to the discussion; however, I will say that you need to stop, calm down, and just think it through for a few minutes. There is no way this can be a bad change, there just isn't. Additionally, saying things like "I'm not going to buy Nightfall now," or "I'm quitting GW because of this," and so on really makes you look immature and shortsighted, so just think about that.

And, before someone says I don't know jack about anything, I can assure you I've played plenty of pvp, including gvg, RA/TA, HA, AB, and so on. Look me up in-game if you really want to and we'll talk more.

I guess all this speculation is nonsense anyways
It should be fun, although I'm not sure how well I will adjust to 6v6.

Well Spoken, I assume people will get used to it eventually.

Vim is Pathetic, and easy to beat with any common sense

Smite, Got nerfed, even a small amount of enchant removal and/or Intturupts and you can make 1/3rd the enemy team useless

Thumpers? Got nerfed significantly, they're isnt much reason to run one anymore

i forsee lots of condition and Hex Teams, so any teams (read: Smart teams) will likely run 1 Boon, One Rc, and put expel Hex somewhere in there

Am I the only one in this broad that wants both modes? My only reason to against 6v6 is that it takes away hoh 8v8. To those that like the change: why the hell are you guys so selfish, anet took hoh away from the 8v8 crowd and handed it to you guys. You guys got the joy at expense of us. That is not fair. Hoh is not changed. It's gone forever. 16 man mayhem is gone. whatever is wrong with hoh now will not get any better in 6v6. Get rdy to be pwn by vimway.

HA is already dieing. It's been dieing for a long time now. The population has dropped sharply from what it use to be. Most of the HA players I once knew have moved on to GvG exclusively or quit Guild Wars altogether. Meanwhile, new players have not joined the HA game in enough numbers to replace those that have left, and continue to leave.

American districts are now completely, utterly empty. The international districts, once home to people trying to get away from the IWAY spam, have been completely taken over by IWAY and similar builds.

There simply aren't enough teams playing to even support the old 6 team map.

Splitting the game between a 6v6 and 8v8 HA will only sap more players from HA. And yet, HA needs *something* or it will continue to wither away. I think changing the maps up and making the game into a 6v6 mode is a good start, but there still needs to be an incentive for new players to join HA groups, and for more experienced players to take in new players.

I think this a really stupid and unwise move by anet seriously 8v8 was what made HA really fun now all we will see is vim,thumpers and dual smite. In my opinion anet has let itself down

mrdbeau, i read your post and i just can't agree with ur argument. just think for a bit, in nightfall, we'll have a total of 10 professions to chose from. shrinking the party to 6 only LIMITS possibilities to make a creative and versatile build. we can only chose 48 skills in total.

-at least 2 chars will have to be some sort of healers (boon prots any1?)
-1 char needs to be some support/dmg because we need extra counter to vim/smite/condition
-this leaves us with 4 offensive chars which is 32 skills (3 are rez sig for sure).

my point is, u just can't experiment much with 32 skills. so this change in my opinion can't bring out the best in ppl. it will only make some easy fame for gimmick builds.

also it's certain that experienced pvp players will adapt to the change, but that doesn't mean they'll enjoy it. personally i was looking forward to making some exciting and challenging builds but now i'll have to conform to something simple because i'm limited to 48 skills.

you keep saying iway is not letting ppl enjoy HA and it's funny that you didn't notice iway died about a month ago. since the double fame event and the nerf of edge bomb iway got scarce. and after the latest skill update, i've rarely seen iway groups. maybe u're confusing iway with VIM, which indeed has been increasing. and i'll assure you, u'll see a lot more vim/modded vim once 6v6 is implemented.

about new players, they'll have the same problem as now. there will always be rank discrimination. and franky new comers just mean free fame for old players who obviously won't have any trouble running some smite build. pld players are quite happy to see new ppl because they are quite east to beat while waching tv..

overall this change won't enchance the enjoiment factor for new players and it won't allow old players to be creative. i simply see this as an act of lazyness fron anet's part to make 2 separate arenas. i hope this post makes u see a more realistic point of view.

I'm going to be honest, I am r3 soon to be r4. I am not a "n00b" playing for 6 months, I truly enjoy PvE and I like the weekend events(the good ones anyway) this one being a weekend event into a standard form of the game.

When the original 6v6 happened (double fame) I was at approximately.. 40 fame. I worked on a build for quite some time, grabbed some pugs and got r3 in 5 hours. In all honesty thats how long it can take in normal 8v8 once you hold halls and gain 40 fame every 10 minutes. Not only can you run a balanced build that holds it so well, that with 8 players you can counter act any 16 opposing, is MORE then ridiculous. You look at some guilds MATH, IA, Pi, RenO w/e. They get on and completely own, granted they are good. Although at the same time how fair is it to face against 3 monks, 2 spirit spammers, ward ele's +whatnot and 16 people who can't take a ghost down. I agree with this change, it will bring RESTRICTED INNOVATION to builds. I do completely accept the fact most builds are now screwed, thank gawd 7 bloodspikers=ridiculous. You can do it in 4, now THATS fame farming. I do also agree that GvG should remain 8v8, I believe that GvG is the pinnacle of guildwars, not Heroes Ascent. This whole time people got that mixed up, now there is at least divided respect among them. Guilds with borded capes should be glorified for what they have accomplished, but people dont look at that, they wanna see what animal you get when you type "/rank".

Thank you Anet, this makes the "fame farmers" actually play for it, and GvG more distinct.

Thank you mrdbeau that was the most cohesive and coherent post I have ever read. Kudos to you for actually thinking it out and posting something that made sense for your argument.

Now on to my point. I would not mind the rank functionality if it was not so easily farmed... Heck I have seen several people that are rank 6+ that have no clue about the game in general at all. Obviously Ebay account buyers IMHO. but that's besides the point.

I would have much more respect for Ranked players if there was a penalty system as there is with Alliance faction... Not meaning it should degen over time, but say if you LOOSE in the hall you get a -100 fame points penalty or something like that... Or If you fail one of the maps leading up to the hall you get a -10 penalty. Over all this is relatively minor to those that get to the hall all the time. But those that fail to get to the hall or BUY a fame character will loose what they bought soon enough due to incompetence.

As it is now, you don't even need to get all the way into the hall and you could potentially be ranked 3+ for those failure along the way, and I'm sure there are some Rank 6+ that have NEVER won the hall at all. Just with shear farming of fame with no penalty for losing. that's all I mean.

Fame isn't necessarily Earned, its farmed. so the respect for it is rather low.

I aggree that there is a decrease in ha population. But that's due to the unwillingless of newcomer to accept the fact that they are newbies and they need to play iway to learn the game first. A newbie pug CANNOT play anyother builds. But that's another topic. Also the reward is bad, the only reward is fame. Yet there are still enough people to get the hoh game going. They should make a new 6v6 arenas and let players choose the pvp type they want. Again, I don't see how the new 6v6 can draw more player than the current 8v8. sure it's fresh, but after two weeks, it'll be the same. The problems that plague 8v8 will plague 6v6 the same way. If you say it's easier to get a team of 6, I say it's easier for team of 6 to fill up and you're screwed. If you say you have only 5 friends/small guild, i say, so you dont want any new friends/guild members joining you? So tell me, how does this change make hoh any better? no iway? there's vimway, you can stil spike with 6 necros. Please answer my question, for those that want to get rid of the 8v8 hoh. Thanks

It doesn't make it better at all, just different. the game evolves. the players don't. big surprise...

The same argument was bitched over with the Hall changes a few months ago as well. Your really not going to like it when you see that you actually go through yet another map before going into the hall now too... And that some CO-Op alliance type functionality may be coming to it as well. whatever.

I guess some people just always want the same old stuff forever. Why not play a single player game if you like that so much? This is MMO style, if not design, they change over time. Thats the entire point is it not?

6v6 gives you less skill slots in general, so you'll have less skills for countering other builds.
IWAY: Wards, Aegis, etc
Spike: Fertile, Infuse, etc
Relic: Windborne, Foes, Gale, etc
Altar: Distracting shot, Psychic Distraction, etc

You get the point, they're all kinda a must.


I hope they change Scarred Earth, it's not fun fighting 1 team, and then losing to the next one, because you've used up all your res sigs at the last match (Doesn't happen often, but it can), and I hope they change Courtyard too, remove the Priest so when you get ganked at least you still have a chance. And maybe do something about that 10 minute timer, there's not even a chest at the end.

HA is more luck based due to Altar maps, 2 teams can gank you and/or interrupt you're ghost only from capping. GvG is always 1 vs 1, and you're usually paired with a Guild who is equally good as you (most of the time), In HA you're usually facing beginners playing a FOTM build not knowing what to do which you'll easily dominate.



offtopic: SOAP DISBANDONED ! ! ! !

First point im going to address, how it makes getting groups easier.

I think foremost, there will be less "hall skips" when this happens. For every 24people playing in halls there will be 4 teams instead of 3. Refering to the small guild association, what does it matter if your in a guild alone or in a guild with 100 people? You still need 6 to play compared to 8. If simplicity makes things less confusing and more compatable for all players, take that route. This is what Anet is doing. Why not make things simpler, less complicated, less stressful, and not so purely immitated by huge powerful guilds. At the moment I see a consensus of 5 groups of people:

1- I like the change I can find a group now, I only have 20-50 fame and I have been trying for months.

2- I hate this change I have 5,000 fame and I will not be use to the new environment because my "hours played vs. my skill" will drop.

3- I hate this change because I can't abuse builds like a red-headed step child anymore

4- I like this change because its a new shake-up

5- I have a valid argument for this change, positive or negative.

My messages to each group:
1. GL and have fun hope you find a group.
2. Suck it up butter-cup.
3. You shouldn't be there in the first place.
4. That's half a reason to like the way this game is going.
5. Keep posting.

Pick your category.

evolve means adapt to the changes and make it better. In this case the changes is the decreasing of ha population. So they get rid of 8v8 to adapt and evolve? If it doesnt make the game better, then it's not EVOLVING. This CHANGE is NOT an EVOLUTION, not even close!

hope theres more to burial mounds, like the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO2 thing its supposed to be

I'm 5. but I have different opions for those 5 groups,
1. if you cant find a group now, you cant find a group in 6v6. simple it's your problem.

2. This group have no problem since all they care about is fame, if you can get 5000 fame in 8v8, you hav eno problem getting your share in 6v6

3. Same as 2, if you GROUP can pwn people in hoh now, you have no problem pwning people in 6v6 regardless of builds, new gimmick builds will come up

4. You will not like it after 2-3 monthes. They you will ask for bringing back 8v8 or 5v5 7v7 or 1v1

5. UNITE and get ANET to give us both options!


As for 6v6 makes things less confusing, the hoh is made to be complicated, that's why you need vent/ts, that's why newbies cannot run balance, they only can run iway. All in all, 8v8 in gw is as balance as it can be. How you want to play it is your choice. I'm totally for 6v6. But I'm 100% against taking away 8v8 hoh. I will still play the game though, COME ON you ELITE pvers!! I'll pwn you with vimway. Then you will all go back to your own pve world. no offense :-)

one of the wisest post so far, supaet ...

IWAY: 6 man IWAY is gimped, you can just kite the warriors now.
Spike: 6 man spike is either not enough to kill someone, or no defense -> they are easier to kill.
Relic: Bring a speed boost, you can survive without the rest
Altar: Less players per team means less holding ability means easier to cap. That was my experience in the 6v6 weekend.

My point is you will need to think differently to succeed in 6v6 HA. You can't use the same ideas that worked well in 8v8.

ohhh the drama! why ppl have to complain so much. if you are good in pvp and u have good pvp friends or guild, then u wont have a hard time to find a build that might work against another. And well changes are good cuz some of my fellow guildies are just bored of the way pvp is now, so maybe now anet just gave us somthing to think about, and that my fellow readers, is good for the mind. Wen you have fear in something new, that means there´s an oportunity in it.
Ohh yeah and another thing, i wonder how can new players supposed to get into pvp if they dont start with the easiest build? give them a break. or do u really want a new player infusing on for a blood spike, or a airspiker bringing a 20/20 staff etc etc. so let them learn even if that means to play a vim, iway build, soon they will get bored and try new builds but with the experienced they have learned they hopefully get better. and be honest to yourself, even if u play with a non POP build, if u get bored u will try somthing else. (even if it means to mod a lil). so stop complaining, GL HF.

ps: GW isent gonna die anyways cuz where are you gonna find fast pvp - in yer face action - i make fast builds at any time, game? WOW? RA ONLINE? ANARCHY? LOL gi gi.

HA has been a joke for how many months now? Ever since the first "NERF IWAY!" threads appeared, that's all anyone has heard out of that arena: nerf this, nerf that, it's unbalanced, it's gimmicky, blah blah blah. Well, here's something that will shake up a decrepit game mode. Will it be better? Can't tell for sure right now, but it sure as hell can't be worse, and kudos to ANet for having the balls to risk p***ing so many people off to fix something that damn well needed to be fixed.

To all 6v6 lovers, we now all know that 6v6 is new fresh, more fun whatever you say. But can you guys also post why we needs to get rid of 8v8 hoh? what is wrong with the old system that will be fixed with the new? Why settle for the fact that ANET only gives us one or the other? when you 6v6 in ha for a month, don't you want to try the 8v8 again just to shake things up? Please do not settle for less! ANET will listen to the community. To ANET and all the gwguru posters, please let casual pvper like myself, who's not in a pvp guild, enjoy both 6v6 and 8v8

Hrmm, hasnt anyone at anet realized the popularity of the 6v6 weekend was not the 6v6 aspect of it, but the double fame aspect of it?

bad idea anet.

at the very least, maybe alternate it. 2 weeks 6v6, 2 weeks 8v8, and change the drops in hoh maybe? 6v6 should not be getting 2 sigils every 6 minutes.

Id much rather prefer the 6v6 double fame weekend every two - three months as a way to spark interest in tombs among the "newbies" rather than this permenant downshift of the variety thats starting to show its face in tombs again.

I hardly think IWAYers and BSpikers have any say in this, maybe we will see IWAY go back to being an actual PRESSURE build again, rather than this pathetic defensive crap thats going on. Maybe all the BSpikers will finally realize how little they learned farming fame with a now-inherantly flawed holding build. Maybe the iwayers will leave tombs when they cant play the only thing they could ever play, and people figure out an effective way to steamroll vimway in 6v6. (not like it didnt already happen, but whatever)